hydrocynus wrote: »
hydrocynus wrote: »
But why would a traditional tank even need spell/weapon damage? I could see some potential for it in PvP, but PvE? If you're a dps and you have a tank, you're unlikely to get hit anyway. If you're a tank wearing 5 heavy, let's face it, your dps won't fly off the charts even with the...how big is it, like ~200 tops?...spell/wep damage increase.
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
robertberanek wrote: »
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But that's the beauty of it! I might be weird, but permablocking with stam regen while blocking is not challenging at all. What I like to do a tank is to mitigate as much damage as I can without blocking and block only certain types of attack ... I admin still blocking way too much. And you can mitigate a lot with Armour master and Lord Warden, and save resources for "Oh, crap moments" and for group buffs.
hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »
But why would a traditional tank even need spell/weapon damage? I could see some potential for it in PvP, but PvE? If you're a dps and you have a tank, you're unlikely to get hit anyway. If you're a tank wearing 5 heavy, let's face it, your dps won't fly off the charts even with the...how big is it, like ~200 tops?...spell/wep damage increase.
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But 275% increase in stamina gain back from constitution passive means losing the block cost reduction is not so bad.
robertberanek wrote: »
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But that's the beauty of it! I might be weird, but permablocking with stam regen while blocking is not challenging at all. What I like to do a tank is to mitigate as much damage as I can without blocking and block only certain types of attack ... I admin still blocking way too much. And you can mitigate a lot with Armour master and Lord Warden, and save resources for "Oh, crap moments" and for group buffs.
robertberanek wrote: »
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But that's the beauty of it! I might be weird, but permablocking with stam regen while blocking is not challenging at all. What I like to do a tank is to mitigate as much damage as I can without blocking and block only certain types of attack ... I admin still blocking way too much. And you can mitigate a lot with Armour master and Lord Warden, and save resources for "Oh, crap moments" and for group buffs.
Have you tried tanking Mantikora?;)
hydrocynus wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »
But why would a traditional tank even need spell/weapon damage? I could see some potential for it in PvP, but PvE? If you're a dps and you have a tank, you're unlikely to get hit anyway. If you're a tank wearing 5 heavy, let's face it, your dps won't fly off the charts even with the...how big is it, like ~200 tops?...spell/wep damage increase.
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But 275% increase in stamina gain back from constitution passive means losing the block cost reduction is not so bad.
Maybe possibly...not convinced but I suppose I should at least reserve final judgement til I can test it/see some prove; unfortunately I don't have PTS, no space on my SSD for it. Have you actually tested it?
robertberanek wrote: »
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
But that's the beauty of it! I might be weird, but permablocking with stam regen while blocking is not challenging at all. What I like to do a tank is to mitigate as much damage as I can without blocking and block only certain types of attack ... I admin still blocking way too much. And you can mitigate a lot with Armour master and Lord Warden, and save resources for "Oh, crap moments" and for group buffs.
Have you tried tanking Mantikora?;)
But why would a traditional tank even need spell/weapon damage?
Have you tried tanking Mantikora?;)
Ferretstalker wrote: »Power Bash could use a cost reduction. As it stands Puncture does about the same damage for half the cost, even with the 25% block buff applied.
hydrocynus wrote: »Ferretstalker wrote: »Power Bash could use a cost reduction. As it stands Puncture does about the same damage for half the cost, even with the 25% block buff applied.
Including the 85% damage buff its getting?
hydrocynus wrote: »
But why would a traditional tank even need spell/weapon damage? I could see some potential for it in PvP, but PvE? If you're a dps and you have a tank, you're unlikely to get hit anyway. If you're a tank wearing 5 heavy, let's face it, your dps won't fly off the charts even with the...how big is it, like ~200 tops?...spell/wep damage increase.
With no stam regen on block, 20% block cost reduction is huuuuge. That's biggest reason I could see for using heavy armor in PvE really. Now instead you'll have some questionable damage increase...why not wear medium armor instead then? Should be still possible to reach hardcap with some armor buff but you'll have OP stam regen, dodgeroll cost reduction and iirc weapon damage buff(not in game right now so please correct me if I'm wrong).
Ferretstalker wrote: »hydrocynus wrote: »Ferretstalker wrote: »Power Bash could use a cost reduction. As it stands Puncture does about the same damage for half the cost, even with the 25% block buff applied.
Including the 85% damage buff its getting?
Including that, but going back and my math was off, I overstated Puncture's damage. Still, it's marginal, and I don't think it warrants costing twice as much for an ability with more than ~2k damage and no CC.
My thoughts on this are varied. I've been tanking and had a presence on these forums as a tank for some time, for whatever that is worth to the rest of you. I do virtually everything in ESO, on every class, in every role, and everything from solo to group, and pvp to pve. But tanking is my real passion; it's what I enjoy the most, it's what I'm best at, and it's what I understand on the deepest level. That being said, I have a coupe of remarks:
The constitution passive has always been rather lackluster. It's always had the potential to be a very valuable tool for resource sustain, but it's never quite been what it needs to be. I haven't tested the buffs to constitution on the PTS, so I don't know how it feels in practice. But in theory, it sounds much, much better than it's been historically, and I think I agree that this particular passive is what we should've gotten in IC.
It's in my nature to look at the bigger picture. While the buff to this passive seems nice, putting it alongside of the removal of block cost reduction, which a severe nerf, it looks less appealing. Again, haven't tested this in practice yet, but from pure speculation I think that the changes to the Sturdy trait on armor drastically help to offset the loss of block cost reduction. It is my belief that the proper combination of Sturdy armor with other traits we've previously fallen back on (such as infused with prismatic enchants) will not only offset the loss of block cost reduction from heavy armor, but will also play very nicely with the addition of stackable damage increase buffs after blocking. It is noteworthy, however, that this is not going to be a night & day difference for everyone, and it will adversely impact some builds.
The changes to heavy armor and sword&board have redefined what tanks are in this game. For months, we have either replaced tanks outright with dps/tanks or heal/tanks, or forced them into a tank/dps hybrid build, simply because the need for a true "tank" has been severely diminished, and increasingly so, since the removal of soft caps. I believe that from a pve and pvp perspective that these changes bring to the table a whole new lineup of potential tanking builds. It opens the door for many hybrid strategies, as well as many dps builds utilizing s&b. The changes to both HA and S&B go hand-in-hand with each, and gives tanks a more meaningful contribution to your everyday dungeon runs, small group pvp, or even solo questing. In terms of balance, I think we are at least headed the right direction.
I won't go into too much detail about the other points raised in the OP, but I want to give my insight into them, at least a little bit. The changes to Rapid Mending and Annulment are fantastic, and I have no complaints about either of them. Juggernaut, however, is still very lackluster. Nothing in this patch (that I saw anyway) makes health any less of a dump stat. It just means I can afford to switch one more health enchant to a prismatic one, or take a few more attribute points out of health and put it into another resource. Not a significant difference here, they're basically just giving me an ever-so-slight increase to damage and healing, which I'll take without fuss. The passive itself is still rather "meh".
My final point pertains directly to light and medium armor tanks. The changes to the Sturdy trait have made LA & MA tanking all the more viable as a replacement for traditional tanks. This doesn't bother me as of yet (subject to change once the patch hits live, we'll see what happens) because the changes to HA and S&B have also opened up many opportunities for more traditional tanks. We're not in a situation right now where HA tanks become obsolete simply because of Sturdy, and this applies to both pvp and pve. Both are viable, and many new and unique (and interesting) builds will arise from these changes. For now, I sit back and watch the innovation flow.
My thoughts on this are varied. I've been tanking and had a presence on these forums as a tank for some time, for whatever that is worth to the rest of you. I do virtually everything in ESO, on every class, in every role, and everything from solo to group, and pvp to pve. But tanking is my real passion; it's what I enjoy the most, it's what I'm best at, and it's what I understand on the deepest level. That being said, I have a coupe of remarks:
The constitution passive has always been rather lackluster. It's always had the potential to be a very valuable tool for resource sustain, but it's never quite been what it needs to be. I haven't tested the buffs to constitution on the PTS, so I don't know how it feels in practice. But in theory, it sounds much, much better than it's been historically, and I think I agree that this particular passive is what we should've gotten in IC.
It's in my nature to look at the bigger picture. While the buff to this passive seems nice, putting it alongside of the removal of block cost reduction, which a severe nerf, it looks less appealing. Again, haven't tested this in practice yet, but from pure speculation I think that the changes to the Sturdy trait on armor drastically help to offset the loss of block cost reduction. It is my belief that the proper combination of Sturdy armor with other traits we've previously fallen back on (such as infused with prismatic enchants) will not only offset the loss of block cost reduction from heavy armor, but will also play very nicely with the addition of stackable damage increase buffs after blocking. It is noteworthy, however, that this is not going to be a night & day difference for everyone, and it will adversely impact some builds.
The changes to heavy armor and sword&board have redefined what tanks are in this game. For months, we have either replaced tanks outright with dps/tanks or heal/tanks, or forced them into a tank/dps hybrid build, simply because the need for a true "tank" has been severely diminished, and increasingly so, since the removal of soft caps. I believe that from a pve and pvp perspective that these changes bring to the table a whole new lineup of potential tanking builds. It opens the door for many hybrid strategies, as well as many dps builds utilizing s&b. The changes to both HA and S&B go hand-in-hand with each, and gives tanks a more meaningful contribution to your everyday dungeon runs, small group pvp, or even solo questing. In terms of balance, I think we are at least headed the right direction.
I won't go into too much detail about the other points raised in the OP, but I want to give my insight into them, at least a little bit. The changes to Rapid Mending and Annulment are fantastic, and I have no complaints about either of them. Juggernaut, however, is still very lackluster. Nothing in this patch (that I saw anyway) makes health any less of a dump stat. It just means I can afford to switch one more health enchant to a prismatic one, or take a few more attribute points out of health and put it into another resource. Not a significant difference here, they're basically just giving me an ever-so-slight increase to damage and healing, which I'll take without fuss. The passive itself is still rather "meh".
My final point pertains directly to light and medium armor tanks. The changes to the Sturdy trait have made LA & MA tanking all the more viable as a replacement for traditional tanks. This doesn't bother me as of yet (subject to change once the patch hits live, we'll see what happens) because the changes to HA and S&B have also opened up many opportunities for more traditional tanks. We're not in a situation right now where HA tanks become obsolete simply because of Sturdy, and this applies to both pvp and pve. Both are viable, and many new and unique (and interesting) builds will arise from these changes. For now, I sit back and watch the innovation flow.
hydrocynus wrote: »
You are weird!