Stop DPS race in dungeons

LadyNalcarya

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

punishing dps for being awesome at their job ??? Whatever drugs you're on, I gotta try that some day too...

This^
Punishing players for having good gear and encouraging low effort? It doesnt make any sense.
If OP doesnt want to be "forced" to minmax, there's a ton of casual guilds to join.
Of course, its always nice to have more elaborate mechanics. But a mechanic that punishes godo players and can only be passed by playing badly is a very, very bad idea.

Dunkmeister

sigsergv wrote: »

Dunkmeister wrote: »

You can't and shouldn't change how people want to play. If I build a high dps character because that's how I like to play, I should be able to. Zos just needs to factor burns when they design every boss and avoid dps races (i.e. Enrages).

You still can build high DPS character, but it won't help you win in dungeon just because of that.

Well, yeah. That's obvious. Folks are saying that high dos builds should be stopped/punished.

timidobserver

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

Given that they keep increasing DPS potential every patch with things like the cp system, stronger gear sets, and nerfing dungeons, I think it is intended by ZOS.

DaveMoeDee

Knightpanther wrote: »

As long as you have DPS meters you will have idiots that only care about being on the top of them.
As a raid leader in EQ/EQ2 and WOW I banned them, as such our progression increased at a faster rate.
When people get passed the 'ooh look how fast I can macro every spell I have to blow *** up' and concentrate on mechanics its much smoother and more enjoyable.

Even the mention of dps comparison would lose you 50dkp if not booted from the raid.

In short the game is about having fun not looking at who can spam a keyboard the fastest or have the pressure of keeping an imbalanced dps toon up with the current flavour of the month character.

Be safe

You are blaming meters and FotM? People don't need the meters to know that if they just spam attacks and the boss dies with no fight, they should try even more optimal damage. Recycling cliches doesn't make an argument. It also has nothing to do with macros.

Think about the normal party. 2 DPS, a healer and a tank. Should those 2 DPS strive to maximize their DPS? Of course, with or without bogeyman DPS meters. Considering that DPS are overrepresented in ESO, just based on numbers, sometimes 3 or 4 DPS will be forced to group together. When they see that the dungeon is actually easier as 4 DPS, they will keep coming back in DPS groups.

Magdalina

lathbury wrote: »

you mean like they did with VICP second boss? the one that players complian about because they cant learn his mechanics?

Actually imo that guy has been nerfed...you can still burn him just fine, only difference is instead of flatout burning boss when he's at pool you spend that time killing atros.
That fight is 2 mannable now.

Judging by ZOS' actions so far they like dps races. Heck they're nerfing the last challenging dungeons in the game, like only 3 dungeons where you still sometimes need to follow mechanics...meaning they're probably making them easy enough so even mediocre players do not have to follow mechanics at all and can just afk button spam>.<

I think we need less dps races in the game and more interesting mechanics but...yeah. Apparently ZOS is fine dumbing down most interesting mechanics to "if you have 4k+ dps you won't have to deal with these mechanics at all"(gods forbid you have 20k+ dps, then you pretty much won't have to deal with ANY mechanics, period).

d8rmir

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

DynastyIXII

sigsergv wrote: »

DynastyIXII wrote: »

Also please don't label 2 different groups as "pro-elite and normal players" Try, Elite and Casual. It's less insulting. We are all normal player (hopefully) lol.

I wouldn't agree with that. There are three groups of players: casual, normal and elite. Elite is very small, normal and casual are large. A lot of players in ESO (casuals) have not even complete all regular dungeons, they buy mounts, pets and crown restoration potions. Normal players are just players, they don't participate in DPS race, just enjoy the game.

By what you say, Casual and Normal are the same group of players... you are just breaking it down to make 2 different groups lol. I'm pretty sure a Casual player does not participate in "DPS races" too lmao. Also a lot of players in ESO (casuals) HAVE completed all regualar dungeons. Just because someone is casual doesn't mean they don't play the game maybe they haven't beat all Vet dungeons but hey I haven't either lmao, I guess im a casual/"normal"/elite.

Duiwel

OK OP that's nice and all to have an opion, but what makes you think yours is the majority? So why on earth should the game change just because you think so?

Sit down please and take a sip of some cold drink.

This is a good thing.

Svalinn

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

problem is... most of these boss fights are still very difficult to beat for a big part of the playerbase and that is why they are beeing nerfed... if such changes were to be implemented in the game that would make the dungeons a little harder for "hardcore" players and totally impossible (or "extremly harder" if like the term more)for everyone else.

Funny thing is... this "DPS" players get into the game and their goal from the start is only one: "Overpower everything".

Then they reach their goal and overpower everything to the point that dungeons for them becomes a DPS race and, had their dream granted, they come on the forums and complain because everything is too easy for them xD

I really want to call this "Saitama Disease", for whoever watched "One Punch Man".

imnotanother

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

punishing dps for being awesome at their job ??? Whatever drugs you're on, I gotta try that some day too...

Trust me on this: Those top DPS players that really rock in dungeons and blast through everything like it's a joke are in fact very experienced players that do know the mechanics very very well and do not skip them at all. These guys just became (through learning their class and the game mechanics and then a million practise until it became second nature) able to optimize their dps rotations while not standing in stupid and respected all game and fiight mechanics seamlessly into the mix

I can imagine that you get frustrated from new players trying to imitate those top players by skipping all the mechanics, just spam dps buttons and then don't understand why they die or why their dps is nothing like what they hoped it would be. But that's just new players or bad players and a whole different thing

As a dedicated healer since this game was still in beta and up till today still runnings both dailies with pugs as well as having completed all dungeon/raid content including MOL normal I have had the luxury of watching alot of different DPS from my backseat position and after a while the difference becomes ridiculously obvious.

I'll tell you something else about watching those real master DPS in action: they require ALOT less healing and seldom die, exactly because they respect all those mechanics. Even when you as a healer get stunned, knocked or overcome they always have a shield or selfheal ready on their bars as a panic button to cover those few seconds without healing while the wannabies drop like flies the second you stop your constant healing floods on them.

If you're a dps, take a lesson from these observations

Glad to see someone sees the big picture.

I remember the early DPS days, low damage while learning the mechanics. It would take me and my guild mates a good amount of time to complete Vet dungeons, if at all.

But now, after 10 months of learning mechanics and optimizing my damage output, people want to punish these DDs? The same DDs who carry the groups most of the time?

I'm over here scratching my head.
I agree, try vMoL for the current challenge.

kampori

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

because the majority of DPS can't match these numbers. because the majority of players aren't people who have max CPs which boost their dps to this number. Me being one of them. on Xbox One, I have about 400, on PC only 200. On Xbox, I can single target 25k with ease (lag permitting), on PC I struggle maintaining 15-17k.
All these people on the forums, moaning that the game is easy, and that nerfing the 'only challenging dungeons' is bad, consist of probably about 10% of active players at the most. The rest of that horde are what you consider 'casuals' completely incorrectly, just because they don't grind CPs. Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market. And these 'most' are people that don't post on forums, so whoever judges the game based off forum-users get a completely skewed view of the reality of the game.

Kas

it's already in the game for a few bosses.
mechanics have to be triggered by % boss health and not timers (also much better for weaker players who want to learn the dungeon) and need to protect the boss in some form until they're done properly.

e.g. second prison boss. while it can still be done without throwing anything, just stupidly burning down the boss isn't the answer anymore. if you have to kill tons of atros, you might as well throw the bags. imho the fight is now fine. good dps hels a lot, but doesn't make the mechanics useless.

a bad counter example is the CoA boss that spawns adds. while they are also % based, the boss isn't protected and can be burned down before the spawned adds even walk close to the players and properly start attacking

DynastyIXII

kampori wrote: »

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

because the majority of DPS can't match these numbers. because the majority of players aren't people who have max CPs which boost their dps to this number. Me being one of them. on Xbox One, I have about 400, on PC only 200. On Xbox, I can single target 25k with ease (lag permitting), on PC I struggle maintaining 15-17k.
All these people on the forums, moaning that the game is easy, and that nerfing the 'only challenging dungeons' is bad, consist of probably about 10% of active players at the most. The rest of that horde are what you consider 'casuals' completely incorrectly, just because they don't grind CPs. Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market. And these 'most' are people that don't post on forums, so whoever judges the game based off forum-users get a completely skewed view of the reality of the game.

where do you get your facts from? I play on PS4 and I don't hear any of this

kampori

DynastyIXII wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

because the majority of DPS can't match these numbers. because the majority of players aren't people who have max CPs which boost their dps to this number. Me being one of them. on Xbox One, I have about 400, on PC only 200. On Xbox, I can single target 25k with ease (lag permitting), on PC I struggle maintaining 15-17k.
All these people on the forums, moaning that the game is easy, and that nerfing the 'only challenging dungeons' is bad, consist of probably about 10% of active players at the most. The rest of that horde are what you consider 'casuals' completely incorrectly, just because they don't grind CPs. Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market. And these 'most' are people that don't post on forums, so whoever judges the game based off forum-users get a completely skewed view of the reality of the game.

where do you get your facts from? I play on PS4 and I don't hear any of this

Which bit specifically? Most of it just from general chat, reddit/forums, seeing swathes of people leaving/joining the game based off nerfs/buffs/hard content.

susmitds

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

I am all for having more challenges. But punishing somebody just because he/she has high DPS? That is kinda meaningless. It is like giving glass cannons a ninja nerf. I am all for buffing tanks and adding better AI though. Just add things instead of nerfing everything to the ground.

Zerok

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

The problem is that all players expect damage dealers to have at least 15k DPS sustain.

I was running the veteran pledge yesterday with my sorcerer healer. We also had a VR16 tank, a VR16 DPS and a VR3 DPS.

Let's just say that the total DPS output of our two DPS was below average. From what I've seen, the VR3 had about 4-5k DPS and the VR16 had about 12-13k DPS. Obviously, the fights took longer than usual.

The tank was complaining ALL THE TIME, saying stuff like "I don't recall this boss taking so long" or "Have they stealth buffed these fights?" Clearly, these comments were intended to our DDs...

For me, I liked the challenge so I focused on trying to keep everyone alive, even though the VR3 was reckless and his health would sometimes go from 100% to 0% in less than a second.

TL;DR: if all players expect high DPS from DDs, then DDs will see all fights as a DPS race. It's a catch 22.

DynastyIXII

kampori wrote: »

DynastyIXII wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

because the majority of DPS can't match these numbers. because the majority of players aren't people who have max CPs which boost their dps to this number. Me being one of them. on Xbox One, I have about 400, on PC only 200. On Xbox, I can single target 25k with ease (lag permitting), on PC I struggle maintaining 15-17k.
All these people on the forums, moaning that the game is easy, and that nerfing the 'only challenging dungeons' is bad, consist of probably about 10% of active players at the most. The rest of that horde are what you consider 'casuals' completely incorrectly, just because they don't grind CPs. Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market. And these 'most' are people that don't post on forums, so whoever judges the game based off forum-users get a completely skewed view of the reality of the game.

where do you get your facts from? I play on PS4 and I don't hear any of this

Which bit specifically? Most of it just from general chat, reddit/forums, seeing swathes of people leaving/joining the game based off nerfs/buffs/hard content.

"Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market."

I know the forums don't speak for the majority, but neither should any other site tbh. I know a whole bunch of people on console that don't ever go on the internet to even read posts about the game, actually most people I talk too don't even know the popular streamers of this game. They don't post online, they just pick up the controller and play. And from what I hear/see in-game, people don't leave because content is to hard, actually it's the opposite. I hear a ton about people sick of everything being nerfed, the lack of challenging content and lack of group based content.

kampori

DynastyIXII wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

DynastyIXII wrote: »

kampori wrote: »

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

because the majority of DPS can't match these numbers. because the majority of players aren't people who have max CPs which boost their dps to this number. Me being one of them. on Xbox One, I have about 400, on PC only 200. On Xbox, I can single target 25k with ease (lag permitting), on PC I struggle maintaining 15-17k.
All these people on the forums, moaning that the game is easy, and that nerfing the 'only challenging dungeons' is bad, consist of probably about 10% of active players at the most. The rest of that horde are what you consider 'casuals' completely incorrectly, just because they don't grind CPs. Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market. And these 'most' are people that don't post on forums, so whoever judges the game based off forum-users get a completely skewed view of the reality of the game.

where do you get your facts from? I play on PS4 and I don't hear any of this

Which bit specifically? Most of it just from general chat, reddit/forums, seeing swathes of people leaving/joining the game based off nerfs/buffs/hard content.

"Most people consider most of the vet dungeons too hard, even after all the nerfs to them and buffs to us. Most people consider ESO one of the hardest (or at least most unforgiving) MMO on the market."

I know the forums don't speak for the majority, but neither should any other site tbh. I know a whole bunch of people on console that don't ever go on the internet to even read posts about the game, actually most people I talk too don't even know the popular streamers of this game. They don't post online, they just pick up the controller and play.

I agree, I kind of contradicted myself a bit, but it is easily evident. Consider the fact that a huge portion of the players left when the game came out after reaching early Vet levels, and realising the reward:cost ratio wasn't worth the effort of playing. 1-50 content was booming and fun, getting groups easy. After reaching Vet levels, the population shrank to a handful of players in each zone and getting groups for successful vet dungeons mostly relied on being in a guild. Then vet content was nerfed, and a huge number of people (like and including me) came back. You can see this from population activity in this game and others. I play WoW, SW:TOR, Neverwinter & Tera on the side as well, and people love talking about other games on general chat. It's easy to see the general feel of games based off this. Shortly after ESO came out, I saw a much bigger number of people playing SW:TOR, and when Wrothgar came out, those numbers shrank. The game's in a pretty good place now, at least based off players who play multiple MMOs, you can see less people there and more people here (or less people are playing MMOs right now, which is fair cus there is serious content drought in every MMO right now, and no good new ones to go to)
Also the fact that getting a group for silver is extremely easy, and getting a (successful) group for gold is a much bigger gamble. And that's now, when most of it is 'easy' and we are 'OP'.

failkiwib16_ESO

uuUUUUuuUUH YEAH BABEH PUNISH ME HARD !!!

kampori

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

uuUUUUuuUUH YEAH BABEH PUNISH ME HARD !!!

Is this a new molten whip morph? I like it

idk

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

It's been this way since the beginning. Intended or now burning the boss to avoid mechanics has been the goal for 2 years.

At that, groups with higher dps are rewarded in most MMO's. Think enrage mechanics. To suggest it should be otherwise is absurd.

Silly to think of punishing players with a one shot mechanic merely because they are a strong player

lathbury

Magdalina wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

you mean like they did with VICP second boss? the one that players complian about because they cant learn his mechanics?

Actually imo that guy has been nerfed...you can still burn him just fine, only difference is instead of flatout burning boss when he's at pool you spend that time killing atros.
That fight is 2 mannable now.

Judging by ZOS' actions so far they like dps races. Heck they're nerfing the last challenging dungeons in the game, like only 3 dungeons where you still sometimes need to follow mechanics...meaning they're probably making them easy enough so even mediocre players do not have to follow mechanics at all and can just afk button spam>.<

I think we need less dps races in the game and more interesting mechanics but...yeah. Apparently ZOS is fine dumbing down most interesting mechanics to "if you have 4k+ dps you won't have to deal with these mechanics at all"(gods forbid you have 20k+ dps, then you pretty much won't have to deal with ANY mechanics, period).

exactly my point was its not a flat burn anymore

dtm_samuraib16_ESO

Simplest way: level the dungeons as per the level of players.
V16 player?
Make bosses V20, traps equally deadly, and normal critters V16.

Wanna bet that Dungeon DPS storming will end?

Woeler

@ OP

lathbury

sigsergv wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

as i said these mechanics already exist

Where?

vmol, 2nd boss icp, last boss icp, last boss wgt to name a few bossess that have mechanics to stop a flat dps burn.

ssewallb14_ESO

This is a power creep/tuning/design issue, not a player issue. One-shotting someone for knowing how to play their class is very silly.

Wifeaggro13

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

Yes agreed. the second M part of this MMO is very very broken.

DaveMoeDee

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

punishing dps for being awesome at their job ??? Whatever drugs you're on, I gotta try that some day too...

Tanks and healers are already "punished" for being good at their jobs if the group is less effective with 2 DPS. No one is actually getting punished at all if there are mechanics that require a tank or a healer. Considering that a 'balanced' party would still be half DPS, it does not make sense to say DPS are being punished.

Regardless, the main problem is math. People min-maxing their builds will trivialize content scaled for the average player.

lathbury

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

profundidob16_ESO wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

punishing dps for being awesome at their job ??? Whatever drugs you're on, I gotta try that some day too...

Tanks and healers are already "punished" for being good at their jobs if the group is less effective with 2 DPS. No one is actually getting punished at all if there are mechanics that require a tank or a healer.

Regardless, the main problem is math. People min-maxing their builds will trivialize content scaled for the average player.

I agree maybe there should be 2 modes one for the average player and the other to test yourself in for more proficient players. they should make it clear which is which maybe call them something like normal and veteran.

kojou

d8rmir wrote: »

sigsergv wrote: »

Now all top-level players completely ignore most dungeon mechanics and just burn bosses in seconds. I don't think it was intended by ZOS. So we need complete dungeons overhaul to stop DPS race. There are few options but I like one: overwhelming damage must be punished, ignoring a dungeon mechanics must be punished. Boss could enrage and one-shot random player, for example. Boss fights should not be so stupid as they are now for top-level players.

Please add some smart elements in fights that could not be ignored/passed by overwhelming damage output.

OR: Please balance all dungeons assuming 25k+ dps from each dd.
...this seems a much more natural conclusion!

25k might be pushing it for most players and most content. I would say 15k would be more reasonable.

Whats funny is that sometimes in groups I run with we stop DPS just so we can see the glass breaking mechanic at the end of the Vaults of Madness. I still think aesthetics wise that is the best dungeon in the game. You can tell they really put some time into making that dungeon fun.