Craftable Costume Motifs

Gidorick

Many of us want Dyable Costumes but there are some technical hurdles that prevent this. Here is a possible solution:

Just as we have Costumes of Existing Motifs, we should have Motifs for all non-polymorph costumes. All costumes that change what we wear (not what we are) should be available as a craftable items. Assign appropriate armor value to clothes and armors and allow players to create their own, mix and match, and dye these items.

Players could still buy costumes to change their look as they do now, but those that wear costumes can't dye their costumes. This is a choice the player has to make and that restriction should remain the same. If they want to wear awesome armor, but be wearing a wedding dress, then that wedding dress has to be white.

However, if a player wants to wear a heavy cuirass with a red wedding dress skirt and red/black jesters arms, they'll need the appropriate motifs.

TL/DR

In addition to costumes, ZOS should sell Costume Motifs so players can craft, dye, and mix and match pieces of costumes as much as they want.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

Lightninvash

Gidorick wrote: »

Many of us want Dyable Costumes but there are some technical hurdles that prevent this. Here is a possible solution:

Just as we have Costumes of Existing Motifs, we should have Motifs for all non-polymorph costumes. All costumes that change what we wear (not what we are) should be available as a craftable items. Assign appropriate armor value to clothes and armors and allow players to create their own, mix and match, and dye these items.

Players could still buy costumes to change their look as they do now, but those that wear costumes can't dye their costumes. This is a choice the player has to make and that restriction should remain the same. If they want to wear awesome armor, but be wearing a wedding dress, then that wedding dress has to be white.

However, if a player wants to wear a heavy cuirass with a red wedding dress skirt and red/black jesters arms, they'll need the appropriate motifs.

TL/DR

In addition to costumes, ZOS should sell Costume Motifs so players can craft, dye, and mix and match pieces of costumes as much as they want.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

if they did this it would be a crown store item. I like where your head is at though sounds like an interesting idea. But probably would be a crown store item more or less.

Recremen

A great idea, but I have a feeling that would not solve the problem. Making them motifs doesn't necessarily change the way that the colors are mapped onto the objects. The data structure that costumes are stored in also might not already be pulled apart into individual pieces, I mean who knows, right? Then there's the issue of dividing it up into motif pieces, adding an appropriate style material, etc. While I love the idea of playing with more pieces to customize my character, this sounds like it would be even more work than just making the costumes dyeable.

Gidorick

Lightninvash wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Many of us want Dyable Costumes but there are some technical hurdles that prevent this. Here is a possible solution:

Just as we have Costumes of Existing Motifs, we should have Motifs for all non-polymorph costumes. All costumes that change what we wear (not what we are) should be available as a craftable items. Assign appropriate armor value to clothes and armors and allow players to create their own, mix and match, and dye these items.

Players could still buy costumes to change their look as they do now, but those that wear costumes can't dye their costumes. This is a choice the player has to make and that restriction should remain the same. If they want to wear awesome armor, but be wearing a wedding dress, then that wedding dress has to be white.

However, if a player wants to wear a heavy cuirass with a red wedding dress skirt and red/black jesters arms, they'll need the appropriate motifs.

TL/DR

In addition to costumes, ZOS should sell Costume Motifs so players can craft, dye, and mix and match pieces of costumes as much as they want.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

if they did this it would be a crown store item. I like where your head is at though sounds like an interesting idea. But probably would be a crown store item more or less.

Oh yea, I'd be totally fine with that... sell both in the crown store. If you buy the costume... wear it instantly! If you buy the Motif... you have to craft the armor/clothes.

shadowwraith666

don't know how that would how if you want multiple characters to use the same costume but with different colours for each character.

Costumes are currently classed and handled differently from armour since armour pieces have set colour-able regions for each piece, whereas costumes seemed to be hardcoded to be unchangeable.

Gidorick

Recremen wrote: »

A great idea, but I have a feeling that would not solve the problem. Making them motifs doesn't necessarily change the way that the colors are mapped onto the objects. The data structure that costumes are stored in also might not already be pulled apart into individual pieces, I mean who knows, right? Then there's the issue of dividing it up into motif pieces, adding an appropriate style material, etc. While I love the idea of playing with more pieces to customize my character, this sounds like it would be even more work than just making the costumes dyeable.

The reason they are having issues with dyable costumes @Recremen is the way the look of your character is layered. It seems we have 3 layers:

• Character
• Armor
• Appearance

If you dye your costume, the Appearance layer is the dye color. If you wear a costume, the Appearance layer is the costume. There is no layer above that to hold the dye. This is how your Armor still exists when you put on a costume. Your armor is actually layered under the costume. Data management wise, not model wise.

Now, I know you can wear a dyed costume WITH a tabard, so there must be some sort of layer combination when a player dyes armor, but that doesn't change the fact that the layer that is utilized to apply dye to armor is the same layer that is used to apply costumes over armor.

This is why we can't wear tabards with costumes... they occupy the same layer. But if you got a MOTIF of that costume... then you'd be good to go.

My suggestion would make it so the costume is an armor, leaving the appearance layer open for dye. ZOS would have to create the color profiles for the motifs, but... honestly... I don't think that's too much to ask.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how the look of the character is layered, but it seems to work this way.

Any input we can get on this from a member of the art/modeling/character modeling team (which ever it is) would be appreciated @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Gidorick

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

don't know how that would how if you want multiple characters to use the same costume but with different colours for each character.

Costumes are currently classed and handled differently from armour since armour pieces have set colour-able regions for each piece, whereas costumes seemed to be hardcoded to be unchangeable.

This would work EXACTLY how motifs work now @shadowwraith666 ... one character would learn the motif and be able to craft the items.

Read the suggestion again... I'm not sure if you followed what was being proposed.

Recremen

Gidorick wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

A great idea, but I have a feeling that would not solve the problem. Making them motifs doesn't necessarily change the way that the colors are mapped onto the objects. The data structure that costumes are stored in also might not already be pulled apart into individual pieces, I mean who knows, right? Then there's the issue of dividing it up into motif pieces, adding an appropriate style material, etc. While I love the idea of playing with more pieces to customize my character, this sounds like it would be even more work than just making the costumes dyeable.

The reason they are having issues with dyable costumes @Recremen is the way the look of your character is layered. It seems we have 3 layers:

• Character
• Armor
• Appearance

If you dye your costume, the Appearance layer is the dye color. If you wear a costume, the Appearance layer is the costume. There is no layer above that to hold the dye. This is how your Armor still exists when you put on a costume. Your armor is actually layered under the costume. Data management wise, not model wise.

Now, I know you can wear a dyed costume WITH a tabard, so there must be some sort of layer combination when a player dyes armor, but that doesn't change the fact that the layer that is utilized to apply dye to armor is the same layer that is used to apply costumes over armor.

This is why we can't wear tabards with costumes... they occupy the same layer. But if you got a MOTIF of that costume... then you'd be good to go.

My suggestion would make it so the costume is an armor, leaving the appearance layer open for dye. ZOS would have to create the color profiles for the motifs, but... honestly... I don't think that's too much to ask.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how the look of the character is layered, but it seems to work this way.

Any input we can get on this from a member of the art/modeling/character modeling team (which ever it is) would be appreciated @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Are you sure? Did they say that was the issue? I haven't heard anything like that, and I certainly haven't seen them come forward with the details on their internal data structures. I mean it's an interesting deduction, but it sounds made up.

Also, the advantage of a costume is that you can wear it over any gear, not just craftable gear. Until we get a system that lets us freely restyle gear like how we can freely dye our gear, I see this as an undesirable solution.

Gidorick

Recremen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

A great idea, but I have a feeling that would not solve the problem. Making them motifs doesn't necessarily change the way that the colors are mapped onto the objects. The data structure that costumes are stored in also might not already be pulled apart into individual pieces, I mean who knows, right? Then there's the issue of dividing it up into motif pieces, adding an appropriate style material, etc. While I love the idea of playing with more pieces to customize my character, this sounds like it would be even more work than just making the costumes dyeable.

The reason they are having issues with dyable costumes @Recremen is the way the look of your character is layered. It seems we have 3 layers:

• Character
• Armor
• Appearance

If you dye your costume, the Appearance layer is the dye color. If you wear a costume, the Appearance layer is the costume. There is no layer above that to hold the dye. This is how your Armor still exists when you put on a costume. Your armor is actually layered under the costume. Data management wise, not model wise.

Now, I know you can wear a dyed costume WITH a tabard, so there must be some sort of layer combination when a player dyes armor, but that doesn't change the fact that the layer that is utilized to apply dye to armor is the same layer that is used to apply costumes over armor.

This is why we can't wear tabards with costumes... they occupy the same layer. But if you got a MOTIF of that costume... then you'd be good to go.

My suggestion would make it so the costume is an armor, leaving the appearance layer open for dye. ZOS would have to create the color profiles for the motifs, but... honestly... I don't think that's too much to ask.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how the look of the character is layered, but it seems to work this way.

Any input we can get on this from a member of the art/modeling/character modeling team (which ever it is) would be appreciated @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Are you sure? Did they say that was the issue? I haven't heard anything like that, and I certainly haven't seen them come forward with the details on their internal data structures. I mean it's an interesting deduction, but it sounds made up.

Also, the advantage of a costume is that you can wear it over any gear, not just craftable gear. Until we get a system that lets us freely restyle gear like how we can freely dye our gear, I see this as an undesirable solution.

I thought they said something about not being able to dye costumes because the costumes take up the "layer" of the dye at some point in some ESO Live.. I'm not completely sure.. that's why I tagged Gina to see if we could get clarification from someone who is more knowledgeable.

My deduction is more of a SWAG than anything else.

khele23eb17_ESO

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

Recremen

Gidorick wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

A great idea, but I have a feeling that would not solve the problem. Making them motifs doesn't necessarily change the way that the colors are mapped onto the objects. The data structure that costumes are stored in also might not already be pulled apart into individual pieces, I mean who knows, right? Then there's the issue of dividing it up into motif pieces, adding an appropriate style material, etc. While I love the idea of playing with more pieces to customize my character, this sounds like it would be even more work than just making the costumes dyeable.

The reason they are having issues with dyable costumes @Recremen is the way the look of your character is layered. It seems we have 3 layers:

• Character
• Armor
• Appearance

If you dye your costume, the Appearance layer is the dye color. If you wear a costume, the Appearance layer is the costume. There is no layer above that to hold the dye. This is how your Armor still exists when you put on a costume. Your armor is actually layered under the costume. Data management wise, not model wise.

Now, I know you can wear a dyed costume WITH a tabard, so there must be some sort of layer combination when a player dyes armor, but that doesn't change the fact that the layer that is utilized to apply dye to armor is the same layer that is used to apply costumes over armor.

This is why we can't wear tabards with costumes... they occupy the same layer. But if you got a MOTIF of that costume... then you'd be good to go.

My suggestion would make it so the costume is an armor, leaving the appearance layer open for dye. ZOS would have to create the color profiles for the motifs, but... honestly... I don't think that's too much to ask.

Of course, I could be completely misunderstanding how the look of the character is layered, but it seems to work this way.

Any input we can get on this from a member of the art/modeling/character modeling team (which ever it is) would be appreciated @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Are you sure? Did they say that was the issue? I haven't heard anything like that, and I certainly haven't seen them come forward with the details on their internal data structures. I mean it's an interesting deduction, but it sounds made up.

Also, the advantage of a costume is that you can wear it over any gear, not just craftable gear. Until we get a system that lets us freely restyle gear like how we can freely dye our gear, I see this as an undesirable solution.

I thought they said something about not being able to dye costumes because the costumes take up the "layer" of the dye at some point in some ESO Live.. I'm not completely sure.. that's why I tagged Gina to see if we could get clarification from someone who is more knowledgeable.

My deduction is more of a SWAG than anything else.

Ah fair enough, I don't remember every detail from the ESO lives so I could see that slipping past me.

Gidorick

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

lol. yea... who knows how far along they are @khele23eb17_ESO ... it took 1 year and 3 months to get shield dyes in game... how long do you suppose it'll take to get costume dyes?

Also, my suggestion wouldn't "just" make costumes dyable. It would add a whopping about of options as far as ESO fashion goes. Imagine being able to mix and match pieces of costumes with pieces of armor.

I try to post suggestions that have multiple benefits and would improve upon what we already have or what we are assuming we will get at some point.

Acrolas

The solution is a hue adjustment slider on the appearance. That alone would allow for numerous variants.

None of this convoluted motif ***.

Gidorick

Acrolas wrote: »

The solution is a hue adjustment slider on the appearance. That alone would allow for numerous variants.

None of this convoluted motif ***.

That wouldn't work... for the same reasons they can't just add a dye layer. If I'm understanding the way the layering works.

Which I could be totally wrong about.

And again... this would give players even more options than JUST adding dyes.

idk

Solution is in coding.

Problem is in coding also. Currently costumes are shared by all our characters via the collections system. If they permitted them to accept dye a specific costume would have the same Colors for each character regardless of how many times it's been changed by the various characters.

So many would be unhappy with this I don't think it's worth it to try.

MornaBaine

Seems to be a reasonable workaround to this issue. I'm down! And if they'd make "skirts" like the Daedric "Legs" available I'd be in heaven!

khele23eb17_ESO

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

lol. yea... who knows how far along they are @khele23eb17_ESO ... it took 1 year and 3 months to get shield dyes in game... how long do you suppose it'll take to get costume dyes?

Wouldnt your suggestion take even longer?

Lightninvash

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

Gidorick

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

lol. yea... who knows how far along they are @khele23eb17_ESO ... it took 1 year and 3 months to get shield dyes in game... how long do you suppose it'll take to get costume dyes?

Wouldnt your suggestion take even longer?

Perhaps to have ALL costumes as motifs but not to start to have some costumes as motifs. More importantly, it wouldn't require re-engineering of the way costumes work on player models.

Lightninvash wrote: »

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

but then we would be asking ZOS to do twice the amount of work for no additional profit... and we all know how that turns out. I am always... ALWAYS willing to pay for what I ask for, if it can be monetized reasonably. There isn't much I ask for that I expect ZOS to do for free.

Lightninvash

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

lol. yea... who knows how far along they are @khele23eb17_ESO ... it took 1 year and 3 months to get shield dyes in game... how long do you suppose it'll take to get costume dyes?

Wouldnt your suggestion take even longer?

Perhaps to have ALL costumes as motifs but not to start to have some costumes as motifs. More importantly, it wouldn't require re-engineering of the way costumes work on player models.

Lightninvash wrote: »

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

but then we would be asking ZOS to do twice the amount of work for no additional profit... and we all know how that turns out.

my thought is they are already doing work to change it as is so this way it is more of an incentive to buy costumes because then you can dye them and craft a new style at the same time.

Gidorick

Lightninvash wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Didnt they say they were working on making costumes dyeable?

lol. yea... who knows how far along they are @khele23eb17_ESO ... it took 1 year and 3 months to get shield dyes in game... how long do you suppose it'll take to get costume dyes?

Wouldnt your suggestion take even longer?

Perhaps to have ALL costumes as motifs but not to start to have some costumes as motifs. More importantly, it wouldn't require re-engineering of the way costumes work on player models.

Lightninvash wrote: »

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

but then we would be asking ZOS to do twice the amount of work for no additional profit... and we all know how that turns out.

my thought is they are already doing work to change it as is so this way it is more of an incentive to buy costumes because then you can dye them and craft a new style at the same time.

Oh I agree... it would be better to have the ability to craft the costume after you just buy the costume... Costume/Motif combos would be best for players... but honestly, I'm not really concerned with how they distribute this to us. I just want to be able to craft various parts of costumes and dye those parts. However that is done is fine by me.

idk

Lightninvash wrote: »

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

That would take considerable work to code. They took the lazy way to start with. Don't expect them to develope outside if the simplistic costume route.

Gidorick

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

Lightninvash wrote: »

or even make it where when you buy the costume you can make it as an armor style so they wouldn't have to add something "new" and make it so that you can craft the costume as armor and dye it or wear as a costume and no dye. so you can buy multiple costumes and mix and match them as you choose

That would take considerable work to code. They took the lazy way to start with. Don't expect them to develope outside if the simplistic costume route.

I don't think I'll ever stop expecting them to take the more creative, more immersive, more engaging route... and that is the only way they will get my money.

Of course, I under stand I'll probably save a lot of money.

OrangeTheCat

Yeah, I bought the rogue costume set for a few Crowns out of curiosity. When I tried them on I was very much unimpressed by them. I realized they would look much better and I would actually use them if I could dye them. Off to the dye station only to discover they could not be dyed. That was the first and LAST time I will buy costumes with Crowns.

If I can buy costumes I don't want to have to go and find a ridiculous number of motif tomes to craft all the items making up the costume.

MornaBaine

I still love this idea but at this point I'd be thrilled if they would:

1. FIX crown store costumes so that they use YOUR character's actual body instead of grafting some deformed facsimile onto your character that looks nothing like the way you created them.

2. Simply offer all the costumes in a multitude of colors and let us choose which one we have to buy. You know, so I can quit hating on the girl in Hew's Bane with the awesome emerald green version of the costume I can only have in a hideous pink hue.

Lastly, please ZOS, stop giving things to NPCS in respect to clothing and hairstyles that are NOT available to players in any way. It's just not nice.

Gidorick

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Yeah, I bought the rogue costume set for a few Crowns out of curiosity. When I tried them on I was very much unimpressed by them. I realized they would look much better and I would actually use them if I could dye them. Off to the dye station only to discover they could not be dyed. That was the first and LAST time I will buy costumes with Crowns.

If I can buy costumes I don't want to have to go and find a ridiculous number of motif tomes to craft all the items making up the costume.

When costumes were first released and the crown store opened, I kind of looked at the non-dyable costumes as indication that you are wearing a costume. If you take the time to make the armor you get to dye it. It's kind of like a perk and incentive of actually making the armor yourself.

This concept would act similarly. You can buy the costume (which could/should just come automatically with the motif) and wear that costume as is, but if you want to be unique, you've got to put a little bit of work into it.

I see no harm in that @OrangeTheCat . ESO is getting too far into the realm of "immediate gratification" for me anyway.

Gidorick

MornaBaine wrote: »

I still love this idea but at this point I'd be thrilled if they would:

1. FIX crown store costumes so that they use YOUR character's actual body instead of grafting some deformed facsimile onto your character that looks nothing like the way you created them.

2. Simply offer all the costumes in a multitude of colors and let us choose which one we have to buy. You know, so I can quit hating on the girl in Hew's Bane with the awesome emerald green version of the costume I can only have in a hideous pink hue.

Lastly, please ZOS, stop giving things to NPCS in respect to clothing and hairstyles that are NOT available to players in any way. It's just not nice.

I completely agree with the fixes needed @MornaBaine but I really hope they don't go the route of selling multiple colors! That just sounds like it would turn the Crown Store into a catalogue.

dodgehopper_ESO

One solution, @Gidorick , though probably not as elegant as you'd like, would be to have a means of generating costume items (like the tabards) that would allow color customization. You'd have to pay the price to wear a hot pink Justiciar's uniform (for example), both in inventory space and a gold price. Just a thought on an easy way for them to do this perhaps. I think if I did this I'd have to name the character Pepto or Pepto Bismol.

OrangeTheCat

Gidorick wrote: »

snip

I see no harm in that @OrangeTheCat . ESO is getting to far into the realm of "immediate gratification" for me anyway.

The costume goes "over" the armor you are wearing. Chances are you have already put in the "work" to craft your armor. Why should I have to do additional "work" just to dye the costume.

I take exception to the "getting to far into the realm of "immediate gratification"" mentality. Nothing wrong with it. If you find it offensive, I suggest you go and check out Shroud of the Avatar. It is chalk full of people who want to help design a game that addresses "the trouble with modern MMO players these days", "old school MMOs were better because they made you "work"" mentality.

Gidorick

OrangeTheCat wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

snip

I see no harm in that @OrangeTheCat . ESO is getting to far into the realm of "immediate gratification" for me anyway.

The costume goes "over" the armor you are wearing. Chances are you have already put in the "work" to craft your armor. Why should I have to do additional "work" just to dye the costume.

I take exception to the "getting to far into the realm of "immediate gratification"" mentality. Nothing wrong with it. If you find it offensive, I suggest you go and check out Shroud of the Avatar. It is chalk full of people who want to help design a game that addresses "the trouble with modern MMO players these days", "old school MMOs were better because they made you "work"" mentality.

You misunderstand, the "costume' would function like clothes function now. Except you would craft them. They take the place of your armor. Granted, this is one huge point of contention many people would have but I personally think it's a fair trade off. If you want to wear a costume, it looks like the costume. If you want the costume to look a certain way, then you would use the craftable clothing.

If this concept is coupled with the many suggestions for "Blank Costumes" that allow players to imprint their look and make their own costumes, players would have the best of all possible worlds. Buy the costume immediately, or craft the clothing. Then if you want, buy an imprintable costume and wear your custom costume over your armor.

It's nothing about old school MMO's @OrangeTheCat , ESO is maybe the 3rd MMO I've played for any period of time and the only one I've ever been "serious" about. For me, it's about Elder Scrolls and role playing and giving players options and expanding the gameplay of ESO.

Also, telling someone to go somewhere else in response to criticism of or suggestions for the game isn't really productive. We're all here because we love ESO... if I was just looking for feature X-Y-Z I would indeed go find the game that gives me those features and I would play that.

Franieck

I definitely support this