Can we fix lotus fan pls

KenaPKK

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

lol Don't tell me I have a build issue. Read the post above this for the rest of the thought process. I'd assumed people would connect the dots.

Zheg

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Wow. Compensatory nerfs? The logic (while bad logic) for removing the ability to reflect and purify meteor was pretty clear, and it would apply to NBs as well if Wrobel wasn't so bad at his job. Also, no, if you make it so you can't dodge meteor, you don't have to make it so you can't dodge all projectiles, because wings can reflect every projectile other than meteor now. Your logic is flawed, deeply.

You say cloak is NBs primary defense mechanic, I agree. Purify used to be a templars (good templars relied more on purify than heals for large damage attacks) and wings is/was a DKs primary defense mechanic, so that point falls flat as well.

RinaldoGandolphi

@Zheg got a point. If Templar can't purify it, DK can't reflect it, Sorc Ball of Lighting can't absorb it etc.....why should Nightblades be a special Snowflake and be able to just Cloak it?

100% miss chance on Cloak you say....wow remember then ZOS said Blinding Flashes 50% miss chance was too OP so they removed it from the game? yeah...but Cloak 100% miss chance on a spammable skill isn't OP but Blinding Flashes was? oh the irony!

KenaPKK

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Wow. Compensatory nerfs? The logic (while bad logic) for removing the ability to reflect and purify meteor was pretty clear, and it would apply to NBs as well if Wrobel wasn't so bad at his job. Also, no, if you make it so you can't dodge meteor, you don't have to make it so you can't dodge all projectiles, because wings can reflect every projectile other than meteor now. Your logic is flawed, deeply.

You say cloak is NBs primary defense mechanic, I agree. Purify used to be a templars (good templars relied more on purify than heals for large damage attacks) and wings is/was a DKs primary defense mechanic, so that point falls flat as well.

Incorrect.

DKs and Defensive Stance being able to reflect all projectiles except meteor is the flawed logic, and you pushing to add yet another mechanical inconsistency to the game is just as illogical.

Did you know that the other morph of Defensive Stance can still absorb Meteor and heal from it, just as it can any other projectile? That ability is still consistent, just as cloak's force miss is and Defensive Stance and wings should be.

You should be pushing to reverse the wings and Defensive Stance nerf. Stop talking as if nightblades are a problem here when the problem is not class related. They're in a fine spot as they are right now, minus proxy det and VD (which are overtuned for everyone, not just nightblades).

Also, Purifying Ritual being able to negate any projectile was overpowered from the start given the strength of templars' other defensive mechanics. The top tier templar players were laughing at this part of their kit when it existed, and there is a consensus now that it should not return. It shouldn't even be part of this conversation.

AddictionX

Ah its a mistake you see, it was rather while buffing dots a dev sneaked in the code for all DoTs to break cloak but of course the code got bugged and only applied to a certain skills so as you can see.... A bug inside a bug. THE RESISTANCE IS REAL AND ALIVE, where not alone some one is fighting for DoT viability!

Certain DoTs should break cloak.

Like poison supposed to shut down your organs and stuff disappearing doesnt mean the poison shouldnt affect your heart, brain or muscle function. Or like Bleeding supposed to make you slower and skills costing more the longer you bleed out, but some how you're bleeding the shield? idk... alot stuff wrong with DoTs.

Zheg

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Wow. Compensatory nerfs? The logic (while bad logic) for removing the ability to reflect and purify meteor was pretty clear, and it would apply to NBs as well if Wrobel wasn't so bad at his job. Also, no, if you make it so you can't dodge meteor, you don't have to make it so you can't dodge all projectiles, because wings can reflect every projectile other than meteor now. Your logic is flawed, deeply.

You say cloak is NBs primary defense mechanic, I agree. Purify used to be a templars (good templars relied more on purify than heals for large damage attacks) and wings is/was a DKs primary defense mechanic, so that point falls flat as well.

Incorrect.

DKs and Defensive Stance being able to reflect all projectiles except meteor is the flawed logic, and you pushing to add yet another mechanical inconsistency to the game is just as illogical.

Did you know that the other morph of Defensive Stance can still absorb Meteor and heal from it, just as it can any other projectile? That ability is still consistent, just as cloak's force miss is and Defensive Stance and wings should be.

You should be pushing to reverse the wings and Defensive Stance nerf. Stop talking as if nightblades are a problem here when the problem is not class related. They're in a fine spot as they are right now, minus proxy det and VD (which are overtuned for everyone, not just nightblades).

Also, Purifying Ritual being able to negate any projectile was overpowered from the start given the strength of templars' other defensive mechanics. The top tier templar players were laughing at this part of their kit when it existed, and there is a consensus now that it should not return. It shouldn't even be part of this conversation.

I think the 85+ page long templar PTS thread would disagree with what you think templars are saying about the purify change. Yes, I'm aware of defensive stance being able to absorb it as a heal, but that's open to NBs as well. Cloak is already on your bar for any number of reasons, if you think the heal is such a good choice and a good use of bar space, I'm sure you'll end up slotting it if and when cloak gets the same treatment every other class based counter to meteor got, right?

People already pushed, hard, on the reflect changes. They're not changing their minds any time soon; if they're staying, then there shouldn't be a special snowflake opt out for NBs. I'm glad you abandoned the "NBs can't afford to block it" approach though.

KenaPKK

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Wow. Compensatory nerfs? The logic (while bad logic) for removing the ability to reflect and purify meteor was pretty clear, and it would apply to NBs as well if Wrobel wasn't so bad at his job. Also, no, if you make it so you can't dodge meteor, you don't have to make it so you can't dodge all projectiles, because wings can reflect every projectile other than meteor now. Your logic is flawed, deeply.

You say cloak is NBs primary defense mechanic, I agree. Purify used to be a templars (good templars relied more on purify than heals for large damage attacks) and wings is/was a DKs primary defense mechanic, so that point falls flat as well.

Incorrect.

DKs and Defensive Stance being able to reflect all projectiles except meteor is the flawed logic, and you pushing to add yet another mechanical inconsistency to the game is just as illogical.

Did you know that the other morph of Defensive Stance can still absorb Meteor and heal from it, just as it can any other projectile? That ability is still consistent, just as cloak's force miss is and Defensive Stance and wings should be.

You should be pushing to reverse the wings and Defensive Stance nerf. Stop talking as if nightblades are a problem here when the problem is not class related. They're in a fine spot as they are right now, minus proxy det and VD (which are overtuned for everyone, not just nightblades).

Also, Purifying Ritual being able to negate any projectile was overpowered from the start given the strength of templars' other defensive mechanics. The top tier templar players were laughing at this part of their kit when it existed, and there is a consensus now that it should not return. It shouldn't even be part of this conversation.

I think the 85+ page long templar PTS thread would disagree with what you think templars are saying about the purify change. Yes, I'm aware of defensive stance being able to absorb it as a heal, but that's open to NBs as well. Cloak is already on your bar for any number of reasons, if you think the heal is such a good choice and a good use of bar space, I'm sure you'll end up slotting it if and when cloak gets the same treatment every other class based counter to meteor got, right?

People already pushed, hard, on the reflect changes. They're not changing their minds any time soon; if they're staying, then there shouldn't be a special snowflake opt out for NBs. I'm glad you abandoned the "NBs can't afford to block it" approach though.

Same approach as always, Zheg. And there's an 85 page PTS thread of people disagreeing with just about every big change ZoS has done..

Still so biased... Do you really not see how backwards your argument is right now? Just because ZoS did one bad change with reflect does not mean that they should make another bad change so that all the DKs who are dissatisfied can "get back at" nightblades. Just because one class got a bad change does not mean all the classes need a bad change to go with it.

And why can't there be a unique mechanic in the game that dodges projectiles, including meteor? Why is it so bad that nightblades can do that? Your "special snowflake" rhetoric is as inappropriate as that one thread pushing for a stamina version of VD. What is so wrong with diversity?

Joy_Division

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Wow. Compensatory nerfs? The logic (while bad logic) for removing the ability to reflect and purify meteor was pretty clear, and it would apply to NBs as well if Wrobel wasn't so bad at his job. Also, no, if you make it so you can't dodge meteor, you don't have to make it so you can't dodge all projectiles, because wings can reflect every projectile other than meteor now. Your logic is flawed, deeply.

You say cloak is NBs primary defense mechanic, I agree. Purify used to be a templars (good templars relied more on purify than heals for large damage attacks) and wings is/was a DKs primary defense mechanic, so that point falls flat as well.

Incorrect.

DKs and Defensive Stance being able to reflect all projectiles except meteor is the flawed logic, and you pushing to add yet another mechanical inconsistency to the game is just as illogical.

Did you know that the other morph of Defensive Stance can still absorb Meteor and heal from it, just as it can any other projectile? That ability is still consistent, just as cloak's force miss is and Defensive Stance and wings should be.

You should be pushing to reverse the wings and Defensive Stance nerf. Stop talking as if nightblades are a problem here when the problem is not class related. They're in a fine spot as they are right now, minus proxy det and VD (which are overtuned for everyone, not just nightblades).

Also, Purifying Ritual being able to negate any projectile was overpowered from the start given the strength of templars' other defensive mechanics. The top tier templar players were laughing at this part of their kit when it existed, and there is a consensus now that it should not return. It shouldn't even be part of this conversation.

Can't really blame you for thinking and arguing that NBs deserve to be a special snowflake since that's what everyone and every class does (see: Templars and RD).

But the last points about Purifying Ritual ... what other defensive mechanics? The reflect that hardly anyone but me used on the NA server? The gimped shield only good a niche 50K health build? The .. what exactly? Breath of Life spam? Like NBs cant and don't do the same thing with healing ward?

The "top tier" templars players were not laughing at it, rather justifying it because their other defenses sucked and thus it was needed ... just like you are doing with cloak and meteor. It most certainly is not a consensus that it should not return (except for perhaps amongst non-templars).

KenaPKK

AddictionX wrote: »

Ah its a mistake you see, it was rather while buffing dots a dev sneaked in the code for all DoTs to break cloak but of course the code got bugged and only applied to a certain skills so as you can see.... A bug inside a bug.

Certain DoTs should break cloak.

Like poison supposed to shut down your organs and stuff disappearing doesnt mean the poison shouldnt affect your heart, brain or muscle function. Or like Bleeding supposed to make you slower and skills costing more the longer you bleed out, but some how you're bleeding the shield? idk... alot stuff wrong with DoTs.

Too much immershunz, too little consistent game mechanics.

AddictionX

KenaPKK wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Ah its a mistake you see, it was rather while buffing dots a dev sneaked in the code for all DoTs to break cloak but of course the code got bugged and only applied to a certain skills so as you can see.... A bug inside a bug.

Certain DoTs should break cloak.

Like poison supposed to shut down your organs and stuff disappearing doesnt mean the poison shouldnt affect your heart, brain or muscle function. Or like Bleeding supposed to make you slower and skills costing more the longer you bleed out, but some how you're bleeding the shield? idk... alot stuff wrong with DoTs.

Too much immershunz, too little consistent game mechanics.

At least the RESISTANCE is real and has infiltrated the dev ranks!

Some of those mechanics are portrayed in the vMA.

Some where deep is a sneaky code guy whose against the tyranny of the horrible prox det VD.... burst meta, but there is only so much the guy can do and gets good ideas thwarted. Or is it coincidence that dark flare hits you while in cloak but meteor doesnt or how RD is no longer dodgable.

bikerangelo

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

Lava_Croft

The behaviour of Cloak in general since TG makes me feel like I'm back in 2014.

However, at this moment the game has much bigger problems than Cloak being broken.

KenaPKK

Yea those dots breaking cloak are getting really old. I am using a super heal-tanky build to compensate.

AddictionX

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

But... But... the R...RE....RESISTANCE... theres a dev fighting for DoT viability ... h...how can you not see!?

A bug inside a BUG! It can not be dismissed as coincidence!

Anyways... why are you so serious?

bikerangelo

AddictionX wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

But... But... the R...RE....RESISTANCE... theres a dev fighting for DoT viability ... h...how can you not see!?

A bug inside a BUG! It can not be dismissed as coincidence!

Anyways... why are you so serious?

AddictionX

Gruffleton wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

But... But... the R...RE....RESISTANCE... theres a dev fighting for DoT viability ... h...how can you not see!?

A bug inside a BUG! It can not be dismissed as coincidence!

Anyways... why are you so serious?

ahaha I love it!

KenaPKK

Gruffleton wrote: »

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

Actually cloak is a force miss. It does make you immune to projectiles that hit you within the first second or so of the invisibility. Meteor is a projectile. It should be force-missed by NBs and reflected by DKs. Take the latter up with ZoS.

Zheg

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

It was introduced alongside the other class (previous) counters to meteor to refute kenas attempt to validate why nb should be able to ignore meteor when other classes cannot. I'd hardly call that playing the victim card, I'd call it perspective and comparison.

I'm hardly the only one reiterating wrobel's incompetence, in fact it seems to be what all the cool kids are doing nowadays.

Not much I can tell you if you're upset seeing wasted effort and wasted breath. I've reached the zero effs given stage and see no reason not to make it abundantly clear why the meta is in such a sorry state. I also admit I take some small amount of pleasure in reminding people the meta played out almost to a T how it was predicted, contrary to their stalwart defense of the changes initially.

I'll either be banned, CU will come out, or wrobel will be replaced, and then I'll shut up. Until then, forum pvp is the only form that doesn't lag.

Bfish22090

working as intended

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Sypher wrote: »

I know there are other dots breaking cloak but since 90% of cyrodiils are nightblades this one is the most annoying.

The dot applied to you from lotus fan isn't suppressed by cloak, so it breaks cloak constantly if the dot is on you.

IM NOT TALKING ABOUT THE AOE THAT LOTUS FAN DOES. I'm talking about the dot afterwards (had to type in caps for emphasis)

Pretty much ALL gap closers break cloak

AddictionX

Zheg wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

I'd hardly call that playing the victim card, I'd call it perspective and comparison.

I think what he met and what you call it are two different things so ill settle this with a certain word....



Thats not to defend the only NB should "disappear" into the darkest .... hole? cause a meteor is pretty damn bright, like a nuke. Hmmm that must mean NBs are now COCKROACHES!!!

bikerangelo

Zheg wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@Zheg Pulling out the victim card for Templars in every thread not even remotely related to them is getting old. We get it. They've been nerfed, neglected, shafted by crappy design decisions, and stomped on by other classes. You've made threads concerning communication between the player base and any zenimax devs willing to listen. They've ignored you, most likely because you've evolved into your final form of unending criticisms towards Wrobel's incompetence. Why you keep railing against the dying of the light is beyond me, the futility is as thick as this spring pollen in my swollen sinuses. I'm not arguing with you, I'm not supporting you, I'm not even opinionated on any of your multiple stances on any issue ever, I'm just tired of seeing you wasting your breath with little to no effect.

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

And if I'm not mistaken, this thread was about Lotus Fan's dot breaking cloak, not about meteors, purifies, or whatever crap you've all been emotionally wounded by in the past.

It was introduced alongside the other class (previous) counters to meteor to refute kenas attempt to validate why nb should be able to ignore meteor when other classes cannot. I'd hardly call that playing the victim card, I'd call it perspective and comparison.

I'm hardly the only one reiterating wrobel's incompetence, in fact it seems to be what all the cool kids are doing nowadays.

Not much I can tell you if you're upset seeing wasted effort and wasted breath. I've reached the zero effs given stage and see no reason not to make it abundantly clear why the meta is in such a sorry state. I also admit I take some small amount of pleasure in reminding people the meta played out almost to a T how it was predicted, contrary to their stalwart defense of the changes initially.

I'll either be banned, CU will come out, or wrobel will be replaced, and then I'll shut up. Until then, forum pvp is the only form that doesn't lag.

Just as long as you enjoy the little things, that's good. I've got my money on CU's release happening first though unless you up your forum game.

KenaPKK wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

Actually cloak is a force miss. It does make you immune to projectiles that hit you within the first second or so of the invisibility. Meteor is a projectile. It should be force-missed by NBs and reflected by DKs. Take the latter up with ZoS.

Regardless of their constant changes to "improve server performance," the reflect nerf was one of the worst. More articulate people than myself have spoken out about it, but that's never going to be reversed. I'd also argue that Meteor is non spammable and costly, meaning it should have some form of guaranteed effect on targets, but I have a habit of CC'ing people before casting, so I don't run into nightblades cloaking out of it often.
On a side note, zeni admitted that purifying projectiles was unintended, and they have yet to say the same about cloak and meteor, so it's really just a guessing game until then.

KenaPKK

Gruffleton wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Gruffleton wrote: »

@KenaPKK Blocking a Meteor is the best counter for any and every build (stam or magic). If everyone else has to do it, magblades will be totally fine if they have to as well. Cloak makes you invisible, not transparent and immune to damage, and since Meteor is an aoe it should pull you out of cloak on impact according to every other aoe's behavior. If zeni does change cloak so that it can't negate Meteor, it will bring nightblades in line with every other class.

Actually cloak is a force miss. It does make you immune to projectiles that hit you within the first second or so of the invisibility. Meteor is a projectile. It should be force-missed by NBs and reflected by DKs. Take the latter up with ZoS.

On a side note, zeni admitted that purifying projectiles was unintended, and they have yet to say the same about cloak and meteor, so it's really just a guessing game until then.

The force miss on cloak is definitely intended. As for whether cloak will keep it...well, they show a history of poor decisions... We shall see.

Ghost-Shot

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

So they should get to use a hard hitting ultimate but also get to be the only class that can not get hit by it? I know you love your night blades Kena but come on...

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Can we also fix cloak being able to ditch an incoming meteor? Because that is a steaming pile of BS right there considering we can no longer reflect it and templars can no longer purify it. #wrobellogic though.

You'd have to nerf Meteor then. There's a reason that once reflect was taken from it, it became instantly BiS for the majority of builds. Nightblades seldom run enough durability or stam to eat one or block it.

That seems like a build issue to me

This. You think other classes don't want to go glass cannon and be able to get away with it Kena? It's also kind of ridiculous for you to tell me the class with the best passive regen and the best means to return resources (siphon attacks) can't block a meteor. When the logic for not being able to purify a meteor (same effect) was that it was never intended to remove a projectile like that, and when the logic for removing the ability to reflect meteor was that ultimates shouldn't be able to be wasted and reflected (except overload), what exactly makes NB such a special snowflake? Frankly I find it a little insulting that Wrobel would eliminate every other class' ability to deal with meteor EXCEPT for teacher's favorite pet. The last remaining meteor counter doesn't even make sense - I'm in a wide open field about to have a meteor dropped on me, but I'm going to wave my hand over my face so I can laugh at your ultimate while I prox + tether you from stealth?

There's so much emotion and bias in this post that it's hard to respond to it... Simply put, Purify wasn't designed to dodge projectiles, but cloak's force miss was. It's nightblades' primary defensive mechanic. If you're going to make it so we can't dodge meteor, you'd have to make it so we can't dodge any projectiles, and that simply isn't fair to the class. Making it so we can dodge other projectiles but not meteor is mechanically inconsistent, so that shouldn't be implemented on basis of the game's playability alone.

I don't think reflecting meteor should have been removed from the game, just like nearly everyone else. But just because it was removed does not mean you can go parading around demanding compensatory nerfs to the other classes to make up for it.

Reflect is my best defensive mechanic as a DK and they took that away, making it so I can reflect projectiles but not meteor was also mechanically inconsistent. We can demand that it is removed from the only class that can still do it, its entirely unfair for the glassiest spec to be able to force miss meteors while a tank class can not.

Xeven

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

Ghost-Shot

Xeven wrote: »

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with is cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

The problem is the ability to reflect/avoid meteor was removed from everyone else and experience tells us that they will not reverse poor decisions like that (RIP cinder storm, RIP blinding flashes) so removing the ability to force miss meteors with cloak is the only "balance" we stand a chance of getting.

Xeven

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with is cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

The problem is the ability to reflect/avoid meteor was removed from everyone else and experience tells us that they will not reverse poor decisions like that (RIP cinder storm, RIP blinding flashes) so removing the ability to force miss meteors with cloak is the only "balance" we stand a chance of getting.

You have the power to remove the ability to cloak meteor on your own. Meteor > Streak, Meteor > Fossilize, etc etc etc.

Ghost-Shot

Xeven wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with is cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

The problem is the ability to reflect/avoid meteor was removed from everyone else and experience tells us that they will not reverse poor decisions like that (RIP cinder storm, RIP blinding flashes) so removing the ability to force miss meteors with cloak is the only "balance" we stand a chance of getting.

You have the power to remove the ability to cloak meteor on your own. Meteor > Streak, Meteor > Fossilize, etc etc etc.

I'm well aware of how to CC someone before I meteor, but if someone is fast enough to CC break they can still cloak it but I can't reflect it or purify it when I'm fast enough to CC break before it hits.

Xeven

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with is cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

The problem is the ability to reflect/avoid meteor was removed from everyone else and experience tells us that they will not reverse poor decisions like that (RIP cinder storm, RIP blinding flashes) so removing the ability to force miss meteors with cloak is the only "balance" we stand a chance of getting.

You have the power to remove the ability to cloak meteor on your own. Meteor > Streak, Meteor > Fossilize, etc etc etc.

I'm well aware of how to CC someone before I meteor, but if someone is fast enough to CC break they can still cloak it but I can't reflect it or purify it when I'm fast enough to CC break before it hits.

But with a wave of your hand, it's like it never happened, amirite? Look I don't necessarily think it should be clokable, but if I wanted to have a balance discussion about cloak, I wouldnt start it with Meteor.

Bfish22090

Xeven wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

Xeven wrote: »

*** did I just read. Cloak works on all midflight abilities. Not sure if it works on the AOE portion of Dragon Leap, but if it does, I don't see why it shouldn't for Meteor. TBH though, whether or not Cloak is their only defensive mechanic, a flawless and unbreakable invisibility mechanic would be OPAF. It's not though, so I don't see an issue. My main problem with is cloak is when you think you've set up a nice 1v2 or 1v3, what you really end up with is 1v6 because there were 3 or 4 Nighblades permacloaking and waiting for you to engage. I don't think anyone can deny that it's Nighbladeodiil.

Whether or not Meteor should be cloakable doesn't really matter because they can't cloak Meteor (or block it even) if you're doin' it right to begin with.

The problem is the ability to reflect/avoid meteor was removed from everyone else and experience tells us that they will not reverse poor decisions like that (RIP cinder storm, RIP blinding flashes) so removing the ability to force miss meteors with cloak is the only "balance" we stand a chance of getting.

You have the power to remove the ability to cloak meteor on your own. Meteor > Streak, Meteor > Fossilize, etc etc etc.

I'm well aware of how to CC someone before I meteor, but if someone is fast enough to CC break they can still cloak it but I can't reflect it or purify it when I'm fast enough to CC break before it hits.

But with a wave of your hand, it's like it never happened, amirite? Look I don't necessarily think it should be clokable, but if I wanted to have a balance discussion about cloak, I wouldnt start it with Meteor.

as i am currently playing the fotm vicious death prox det tether NB
i do think cloak needs to be buffed and sorcs need to be nerfed
thanks