Redesign The Bow Skill line

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ContraTempo wrote: »

Speed shooting video just for fun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o9RGnujlkI

Nice.

cyclonus11

How about having "purist" passives that require the same weapon in both swap locations?

Vythri

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I use animation cancelled poison injections to open up and finish off with 2h bar (nightblade). The speed you get from dodge rolling is also godly.

So, you're not a main hand bow user then. Thanks for contributing.

Vythri

Lynx7386 wrote: »

This is a terrible idea.

Snipe is a burst damage skill. When was the last time you saw a military sniper using an M240 assault cannon? It isnt meant to be fast.

Sustained damage comes from damage over time effects available via poison arrow, volley, and acid spray. You combine those with snipe to get higher sustained damage without losing your burst.

Poison arrow can't be spammed without you losing it's DoT. Volley requires the target to stand in the circle which doesn't happen in PvP. Acid Spray doesn't even fire where you aim it. It's entirely too unreliable in PvP to use effectively.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magnum shot being increased to 28 meters would make it far, far too good in pvp.

Oh, you mean like tons of other ranged stuns that magicka users have access to? How about that 22m gap closer every melee build has? So a bow user shouldn't have the ability to stun that guy before he can gap close him? Good idea.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

There are no weapon ultimates, so you're not likely to see one spontaneously added for just one weapon skill line. The current snipe ability is also too weak to be considered an ultimate.

Yep.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Bow is fine. The only change I'd make is having magnum shot make your character leap/somersault backwards instead of just pushing you backwards, the current animation is so akward.

Do you even main a bow in PvP?

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Vythri wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I use animation cancelled poison injections to open up and finish off with 2h bar (nightblade). The speed you get from dodge rolling is also godly.

So, you're not a main hand bow user then. Thanks for contributing.

Yep this is how it is sadly most people that use a bow have it for utility.

Vythri

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Yep not asking for a buff just a simple redesign on how bow functions.

Bow right now is best used for group play, in solo play it's terrible because we lack a reliable cc skill, and a dps skill

To be honest I just want snipe and magnum shot to be changed

Snipe should have it's dmg reduced by 50% fasten the traxel time and lower the cast time to 0.7 secs this will help the bow for sustained dps and less burst

Magnum shot should have this range increase to 28meters,

Lastly of a bow ultimate was introduced it should be what snipe is right now.

Snipe must be completely replaced by something which isn't allow you to stack multiple hidden shots in one moment.

But let Dizzying Swing be cast over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Vythri

Vangy wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I think the snipe having one morph of a stackable dot seems okay. Would boost pve main hand damage for now while leaving focused aim intact the way it is.

You mean lethal arrow? That's sounds cool but how would that work?

@ShadowStarKing

Like when using lethal arrow, maybe first hit applies a straight up damage 'x' with a DOT 'Y" per second for 5 seconds. (im using X and Y cos the numbers im not too sure what to assign such that balance is maintained).
On 2nd application, the dots gets combined into 1 and the duration gets refreshed. Like now it becomes "2Y" for 5 seconds.
Maybe cap it at like 3 applications. If the player fails to reapply the dot in the 5 seconds then all the stacks of Y are reset. First hit > X straight daamge + Y dot, 2nd hit within 5 seconds> X straight damage + 2Y dot>3rd hit within 5 seconds> X straight damage + 3 Y dot. If fail to reapply within 5 seconds reset to X damage + Y dot.

It would also make BOW main hand a lot more interesting. You would have to maintain the stackables DOTS while making sure to weave the light/heavy attacks such that the passive of 5/10/15% bonus damage is also kept up. + would need to maintain poison injection as well. Also bow skills would get double buffed from both mighty and thamaturge with these new skills so it would significantly raise bow sustain damage while keeping its burst unaffected. It would also leave bombard and arrow spray intact. Hell you could even use scorched earth in conjuction with this new lethal arrow and get prolly very good single target sustained damage.

Those are all awesome ideas, but I don't see how that helps in PvP where dodge roll negates all of my Snipes, I can't spam the one spammable skill I have in Poison Injection because you never actually get the benefit of the DoT if you do so, Bombard never actually shoots where you're aiming half the time, and Endless Hail never hits anybody because nobody will stand in it.

Molag_Crow

Agreed. The Bow skill line, or at least a few skills in there; need to be redesigned BIG TIME.

I wanted to make my NB a dedicated archer, wearing Marksman gear (8% damage increase with bows etc) but even that doesn't help in PvP unless you plan on spamming snipe, which is... unfun.

Light/Heavy attacks on players is useless right now since Cyrodiil is full of Stamina builds that use Shuffle/Evasion to dodge 80% (even though the tool tip says 20%) of your attacks, plus the damage from L/H attacks just feels too low anyway. I even use a sharpened Maelstrom bow which I worked hard for and does it make it any better? no, because it enhances Volley... that's good for PvE, in PvP, good luck. The morphs for Volley also suck, in my opinion.

I don't have any ideas on the other morphs/skills, but one thing's for sure: We need a bow ultimate. It needs to be strong but obviously not OP; I don't know what kind of ultimate but I was thinking of something along the lines of Rapid Fire which fires a load of quick, continuous arrows at all targets in a cone-shape (mainly for pve) and the other morph could offer something like a slow, charged-up crystal (or glass, idk) arrow that hits hard, knocks the target back and... IDK, Something!

Then again, about that knock-back thing, it would help archers stay at a distance, even though we just don't need any more CC. We have too much CC in this game as it is... so...

In my opinion:

• Bow's Light, Medium and Heavy attacks against players needs to be increased, something similar to melee weapon's damage. A heavy attack with a bow in PvP should be lethal, why? because no "good" player is going to just stand there at ground level and heavy attack another "good" enemy player who's currently Crit Rushing (or other gap-closers) CCing and smacking you in the face.
• Bow Skill Line Ultimate. Something strong, offering 2 different morphs suited for PvE (Rapid Fire, cheap cost, hits hard in a cone-shape AOE) and something not-similar to Snipe, something really noticeable AND avoidable, or, if not avoidable, then something like Meteor/Comet but obviously a ton of fiery arrows pounding down onto the target, pinning them down, I don't know. Just a few quick ideas.

Maybe @Wrobel will find some of our suggestions interesting. Who knows!

Molag_Crow

Vythri wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Yep not asking for a buff just a simple redesign on how bow functions.

Bow right now is best used for group play, in solo play it's terrible because we lack a reliable cc skill, and a dps skill

To be honest I just want snipe and magnum shot to be changed

Snipe should have it's dmg reduced by 50% fasten the traxel time and lower the cast time to 0.7 secs this will help the bow for sustained dps and less burst

Magnum shot should have this range increase to 28meters,

Lastly of a bow ultimate was introduced it should be what snipe is right now.

Snipe must be completely replaced by something which isn't allow you to stack multiple hidden shots in one moment.

But let Dizzying Swing be cast over and over and over and over and over and over again.

Dizzying Swing.. don't get me started at least Wrecking Blow got put in its rightful place.

Toc de Malsvi

Change the Long Shots passive to give Armor Penetration something like 20-25% when under 10m, 10-20% when over 10m, and 5-10% when over 20m, down to 0% when over 30m. Arrow's pierce armor it entirely fits the bow aesthetic, and makes literal sense given how bow's functionally work. You might still need damage on this passive for balance but it would need to be lower something like 6% at short range scaling down to 0% at max range.

The current system of giving 12% damage at max distance makes no since as it both gives bow massive damage at longest range while entirely gimping it up close. At great distances the bow would be less accurate and less deadly due to a loss in power, at close range the bow is just as lethal as a sword while being considerably more risky given you cannot afford to miss.

Changing this passive in this way would both bring bows somewhat up to par in melee while lowering their max range damage which is exactly what everyone hates and wants to get rid off. It both makes sense for realism and for game balance.

Whatzituyah

@Molag_Crow Interesting idea weapon ultimates think one up for each staff would be easy but for 2 handed weapons not so easy. I can imagine Sword and Board giving you Major Protection across the board. Duel Wielding could give haste back but I realize haste is useless to the animation cancelling meta. 2-Handed weapons though thats a hard one.

kadar

Vythri wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

Vangy wrote: »

I think the snipe having one morph of a stackable dot seems okay. Would boost pve main hand damage for now while leaving focused aim intact the way it is.

You mean lethal arrow? That's sounds cool but how would that work?

@ShadowStarKing

Like when using lethal arrow, maybe first hit applies a straight up damage 'x' with a DOT 'Y" per second for 5 seconds. (im using X and Y cos the numbers im not too sure what to assign such that balance is maintained).
On 2nd application, the dots gets combined into 1 and the duration gets refreshed. Like now it becomes "2Y" for 5 seconds.
Maybe cap it at like 3 applications. If the player fails to reapply the dot in the 5 seconds then all the stacks of Y are reset. First hit > X straight daamge + Y dot, 2nd hit within 5 seconds> X straight damage + 2Y dot>3rd hit within 5 seconds> X straight damage + 3 Y dot. If fail to reapply within 5 seconds reset to X damage + Y dot.

It would also make BOW main hand a lot more interesting. You would have to maintain the stackables DOTS while making sure to weave the light/heavy attacks such that the passive of 5/10/15% bonus damage is also kept up. + would need to maintain poison injection as well. Also bow skills would get double buffed from both mighty and thamaturge with these new skills so it would significantly raise bow sustain damage while keeping its burst unaffected. It would also leave bombard and arrow spray intact. Hell you could even use scorched earth in conjuction with this new lethal arrow and get prolly very good single target sustained damage.

Those are all awesome ideas, but I don't see how that helps in PvP where dodge roll negates all of my Snipes, I can't spam the one spammable skill I have in Poison Injection because you never actually get the benefit of the DoT if you do so, Bombard never actually shoots where you're aiming half the time, and Endless Hail never hits anybody because nobody will stand in it.

The current Stamina meta is extremely strong against any sort of projectiles really, especially ones that are as slow and obvious and Snipe or Crystal Frags.

Bombard actually always shoots forward, even when the animation goes sideways when your strafing. I'm fairly certain it's a visual bug. Pretty easy to test for yourself though, if you feel like. It is super awkward because of that though, and should be fixed.

Egonieser

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I NEVER use snipe, btw. It feels like the cheapest ability in the game.

I think it's cheesy too man, that's why I want snipe to be redesigned so it isn't a 1 shot gank skill from stealth.

Last time I got one-shot by a snipe was back in 1.6. It hits like a wet noodle these days, even from stealth - it's slow, visible and makes a loud sound, and since it's a cast skill - it is horribly affected by lag in PvP, which happens to be there almost 24/7, at least in EU.

These days the max I've ever been hit was about 12k, and that is a very rare occurrence. Heck even heavy attacks can hit harder than that.

Ep1kMalware

it might be good burst in pvp , but in pve I can use medium atks that hit the same and actually restore stamina. it's definitely not good dps in ANY way. snipe spammers shouldn't burden pug groups with their crap, bow skilline is decent tbfh, use poison injection/arrow barrage, works good solo play >.>

my poison injection gives me nice little 22k+ ticks in pve.

I wouldn't be caught dead going into maelstrom (hardest solo content atm) without my bow.

you don't present any solid good arguments, just a l2p issue since you don't seem to be using the skill line pri=operly.

Ep1kMalware

also if they reduced snule dmg to 50% it eould basically be a light attack. >.> mine hit 9k

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Egonieser wrote: »

ShadowStarKing wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

I NEVER use snipe, btw. It feels like the cheapest ability in the game.

I think it's cheesy too man, that's why I want snipe to be redesigned so it isn't a 1 shot gank skill from stealth.

Last time I got one-shot by a snipe was back in 1.6. It hits like a wet noodle these days, even from stealth - it's slow, visible and makes a loud sound, and since it's a cast skill - it is horribly affected by lag in PvP, which happens to be there almost 24/7, at least in EU.

These days the max I've ever been hit was about 12k, and that is a very rare occurrence. Heck even heavy attacks can hit harder than that.

Yeah, inpen and shield stacking makes snipe useless even for it's intended role of ganking.

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Btw Thanks everyone for supporting this dead thread. Hopefully Zos and @Wrobel can skim through and reason with us.

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Ep1kMalware wrote: »

it might be good burst in pvp , but in pve I can use medium atks that hit the same and actually restore stamina. it's definitely not good dps in ANY way. snipe spammers shouldn't burden pug groups with their crap, bow skilline is decent tbfh, use poison injection/arrow barrage, works good solo play >.>

my poison injection gives me nice little 22k+ ticks in pve.

I wouldn't be caught dead going into maelstrom (hardest solo content atm) without my bow.

you don't present any solid good arguments, just a l2p issue since you don't seem to be using the skill line pri=operly.

Ah yes that's cancerous 3 letter word that's throwm around like money.

Well mister(or misses) smart Alec before you shot L2P you should read the OP throughly.

1.) This skill fails in both PVP and PVE. With impen and shield stacking plus an audio que snipe is never a problem to anyone

In PVE mobs are so easy anything could work but why burden your self sniping un CCable mobs to death dealing less dmg and putting yourself at risk.

2.) If you think draining shot is fine in its current form you must be trolling and if that's that case im done talking to you.

If not you must open your eyes to absurdity of the skills mechanics having a short range for a CC and the CC is a simple disorient.