How is magicka templar these days?

Lynx7386

I've been away from the game for 8 or 9 months now, just coming back to ESO to see if it can snag my interest again. My only vet level character is a khajiit stamina nightblade, and I'm kinda wanting a polar opposite to that character; so, i figure if the nightblade is all shadow magic and stamina, the other character should be light and magicka-based, and templar is the first thing that comes to mind.

Back in the day I had a V1 magicka templar, but that was before most of the class changes and I ended up getting rid of that character, so I'd be starting over again. I never got to play around with radiant destruction and I see there have been a lot of changes to templar abilities, certainly a lot of fuss about healing nerfs here.

Any opinions on the setup? Probably going resto/resto with a healing and damage bar for theme, with dawn's wrath for my offensive options. Are any of the abilities in aedric spear worth using for a ranged/light armor/staff templar?

phillyboy7897

Healing just got nerfed across the board, as well as tanking, but our dps is the best it has ever been as far as I know.

CPs have made heals very powerful tho.

There are no good ranged spear dps options but it does have good ranged cc.

Dawns wrath hits very hard. Many ppl are screaming for nerfs.

For what you are wanting to do, I think it will preform great!

Acsvf

Shards and Puncturing Sweep are pretty useful.

I would suggest you use DW/Resto, unless you feel the need to use resto abilities on both bars.

Lynx7386

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

phillyboy7897

DW is stat sticks 100%

The increase in spell damage makes up for the loss of light and heavy attacks and a whole lot more. No spellcaster dual-wielding uses any dual wield abilities.

Its an odd system I agree.. but for pvp min/maxing is quite important. If you choose not to, your opponents most likely will.

All that being said you can use destro and its competitive, but lends to a different play-style, and less burst damage.

Burst > all for damage right now, heals and shields being what they are.

Kidly

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

Any caster that uses dual swords gets a 5% bonus to all abilities, not just stamina. With that said, if you choose to dual wield as a caster, you'll be using class abilities and only 2 perks in the dual wield line. Twin Blade and Blunt and Dual Wield Expert (oh so slightly boosts damage when weaving in light attacks for ultimate generation.)

A resto staff is a good back bar option if you want to generate magicka with heavy attacks. I've been eyeballing the Archmage set though as heavy attacks generate magicka. I'm under the assumption that heavy attacks with melee weapons and the Archmage set generate stamina and magicka at the same time which may be useful in PvP for stamina based buffs, dodge rolling and break free. There may be potential there.

Xvorg

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

same happens with magicka tanks using s/b. 75 points into the steed const give you a huge boost to your armor and spell res (75% extra) and that's the constelation that reduce costs for blocking.

Brutusmax1mus

Magicka templars are tons of fun in pvp and in pve. No escapability through class skills so positioning is important. Healing was not nerfed across the board either, we got some great synergy with restoration staff line with major mending change now.

Overall my power has increased noticeably in tg. Loving it to where i haven't even played my Stamblade in PvP.

Kidly

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Healing just got nerfed across the board.

If Breath of Life is across the board then sure. Good thing my main heals are Purifying Ritual and Mutagen with Breath just being for emergency burst heals.

phillyboy7897

Ya ritual was nerfed extreme and mutagen is not a Templar skill

Brrrofski

Hitting like a truck.

If you spec correctly, you can do so much damage. Breath of life got nerfed, our healing overall got buffed though.

Just rock immovable pots that give stam back in pvp. Super important.

Autolycus

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

In short, it's because the DW spell damage benefits are not actually a little better, rather it's pretty substantial.

A basic example, comparing a legendary vr16 staff to 2 legendary vr16 swords:
Staff - 1335 damage
Sword - 1335 damage

The second sword contributes ~25% of it's damage value to your Spell Damage, so 0.25 * 1335 = ~334
So this is an additional 334 SD that you get from your off-hand sword, that you can't get when you use a staff. You can couple this with the 5% damage increase across the board from DW passives.

Acsvf

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

You have to consider the alternatives.
With destruction staff you get to weave in attacks, use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With resto staff you get to use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With dual wield you get extra damage.

As a magicka templar, unless you have a maelstrom staff(for wall of elements) you won't really use any of the abilities from the destruction staff tree. The weaving also might not be as useful as the extra damage given that your abilities are not instant.
You also probably won't need resto staff unless you're healing.

Lynx7386

Do you think it's possible to run a templar healer without a resto staff at all?

danno8

Autolycus wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

In short, it's because the DW spell damage benefits are not actually a little better, rather it's pretty substantial.

A basic example, comparing a legendary vr16 staff to 2 legendary vr16 swords:
Staff - 1335 damage
Sword - 1335 damage

The second sword contributes ~25% of it's damage value to your Spell Damage, so 0.25 * 1335 = ~334
So this is an additional 334 SD that you get from your off-hand sword, that you can't get when you use a staff. You can couple this with the 5% damage increase across the board from DW passives.

+ an extra set bonus.

Acsvf

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Do you think it's possible to run a templar healer without a resto staff at all?

Yes. Less so after Thieves Guild, but still okay-ish, especially if you're doing normal dungeons.

leepalmer95

Templars are very strong right now.

failkiwib16_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Do you think it's possible to run a templar healer without a resto staff at all?

It is possible, but you will limit your healing and support capabilities if you do that.

If you are with teams that burn bosses down in 10-20 seconds it is good, but if a fight drags out then you will run out of magicka fast.

WillhelmBlack

My DW/S&B Magicka Templar in action. I am by no means a good PvP'er but I do know Templar and this is a decent build. Get lots of angry whispers recently due to the damage Radiant Destruction does with DW, it can 2 shot some medium armour users if they're not doing anything to counter it. Never used it that much in the past but since I cannot reflect my Dark Flares back anymore and RD got a massive buff AND it can't be reflected I will be sticking with it.

Build is in the YouTube description, I use Harness Magicka to keep me from getting low on juice. It fairs well on other Magicka builds but Stamina DK's are quite hard work, if they're decent Templar doesn't have much protection against high damage 2H/S&B animation cancelling builds. Been meaning to ask @Cinbri for his guidance on gear/set up for that because even tho everyone says stamina has been nerfed, it's still the only weakness for my Templar.

https://youtu.be/lYqzel8U9E0

Oh forgot to mention, Toppling Charge still hasn't been fixed. That's right, all this time you've been gone, still not been fixed. You'll see it not going off a few times in video.

Septimus_Magna

Autolycus wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

In short, it's because the DW spell damage benefits are not actually a little better, rather it's pretty substantial.

A basic example, comparing a legendary vr16 staff to 2 legendary vr16 swords:
Staff - 1335 damage
Sword - 1335 damage

The second sword contributes ~25% of it's damage value to your Spell Damage, so 0.25 * 1335 = ~334
So this is an additional 334 SD that you get from your off-hand sword, that you can't get when you use a staff. You can couple this with the 5% damage increase across the board from DW passives.

The spell dmg value for gold v16 DW swords is 1602, 100% of the main-hand and 20% of the off-hand.
(1335 x 1,00 + 1335 x 0.20 = 1602)

Effectively DW with major sorcery buff this is 1602 x 1,20 = 1922
Effectively DW with major sorcery buff this is 1335 x 1,20 = 1602
Difference with major sorcery buff: 1922 - 1602 = 320 spell dmg (excluding any additional spell dmg from set bonus)

Rylana

Tank healplar = LOLZ against zergs. They chase you around pillars trees and inner keeps, but you keep on truckin, aw yea

Also surprisingly nasty burst potential with det/nova/shards and a "clever" application of spell power potions O_o

>=]

Xvorg

Acsvf wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

You have to consider the alternatives.
With destruction staff you get to weave in attacks, use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With resto staff you get to use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With dual wield you get extra damage.

As a magicka templar, unless you have a maelstrom staff(for wall of elements) you won't really use any of the abilities from the destruction staff tree. The weaving also might not be as useful as the extra damage given that your abilities are not instant.
You also probably won't need resto staff unless you're healing.

Hmmm, what if you use soul siphon with punt sweep? Won't you regain 1% magicka per attack and a lot of health?

Cinbri

Xvorg wrote: »

Acsvf wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

You have to consider the alternatives.
With destruction staff you get to weave in attacks, use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With resto staff you get to use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With dual wield you get extra damage.

As a magicka templar, unless you have a maelstrom staff(for wall of elements) you won't really use any of the abilities from the destruction staff tree. The weaving also might not be as useful as the extra damage given that your abilities are not instant.
You also probably won't need resto staff unless you're healing.

Hmmm, what if you use soul siphon with punt sweep? Won't you regain 1% magicka per attack and a lot of health?

No, with 2.3 they completely removed Siphon+Jabs combo. And PvP templars should not forget about Fasalla Guile set - it can be weared in light, it can be weared in heavy/medium and since templar always focused first coz he is weakest - enemy will be under constant debuff, it also can be increased by Befoul CP. Tankplar tanking breach in Fasalla is most painfull thing in 2.3 as your templar literally transformed into unpurgable meatbag.
Resto-staff from Maelstrom on 2nd "support" bar is very usefull and Healing Ward in small-scale sometimes can save your teammates more effective than BoL spam...
Also set that most people forgot - Warlock, is one of the greatest set for templar. One of the best sustain 5pc bonus in game +Channeled Focus+reduce cost CP allows templars to forget about reduce cost glyphs while investing into stamina/spell damage and have either almost instant-blocking build or high damage build with high mana sustain simultaneously. 2vX templars in jaggernaut build with spamming Shards for each other that giving instant blocking capability and 2k spelldamage with fully investment into offensive CPs is so funny that enemies may be confused.

aLi3nZ

How strong is stamina Templar as a class these days? Any change after patch?

Just wondering because seen a few really strong stamplars taking out groups of 3+ solo and couldn't beat with my sorc. My burst did a lot less damage then it does to others. Maybe they were in full impen gear with 5 med 2 heavy or something. Wrecking blow doing massive damage as usual

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

thats the whole point, if you arnt using any weapon abilities, why not use dual wield and have way more spell damage + passive that gives another 5% damage? you dont actually use the dual wield weapon abilities

Xsorus

Fasalla Tank Templars with 60k Health are beast mode....

Speely

Magicka Templars are gold right now. It's very easy to make a versatile build that can do anything with a few gear/CP adjustments.

Xvorg wrote: »

Acsvf wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

You have to consider the alternatives.
With destruction staff you get to weave in attacks, use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With resto staff you get to use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With dual wield you get extra damage.

As a magicka templar, unless you have a maelstrom staff(for wall of elements) you won't really use any of the abilities from the destruction staff tree. The weaving also might not be as useful as the extra damage given that your abilities are not instant.
You also probably won't need resto staff unless you're healing.

Hmmm, what if you use soul siphon with punt sweep? Won't you regain 1% magicka per attack and a lot of health?

Yes, this is a very nasty self-sustaining combo. Situational though. It's absolutely crazy against bosses or 1v1, but for more varied use, Quick Siphon is better imo. Either way, the combo works quite well. More of a soloing tool vs bosses or a 1v1 PvP tool, though. Which is why I prefer Quick Siphon. Casting times suck.

aLi3nZ wrote: »

How strong is stamina Templar as a class these days? Any change after patch?

Just wondering because seen a few really strong stamplars taking out groups of 3+ solo and couldn't beat with my sorc. My burst did a lot less damage then it does to others. Maybe they were in full impen gear with 5 med 2 heavy or something. Wrecking blow doing massive damage as usual

Stamplars are quite good right now. They have access to easy Major Mending (via cheap Magicka dumps like Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus,) and with the nerf to Major Expedition and buff to sprinting, they actually have a little more mobility in relation to Magicka builds. Stamplars are my current fav build type.

Something oft-overlooked is how effective Restoring Focus is for a stamina temp. Cheap enough to keep up even considering liberal Purifying Ritual use, and has crazy synergy with other skills. A stamplar can be very tanky in medium armor and has great, efficient optikns for magicka dumps while maintaining decent damage output. Plus, no one hates you for using Radiant Destruction

Also, since you will always have Rally ticking and refreshing it for a heal, Major Mending comes in very handy.

Probably the stamina build type that benefits the most from sensible Magicka dumps imo.

FeaR Turbo

Not sure if thread is about pve or not from the user who posted but here is magicka templar doing great DPS in PVE The new Trial 2nd boss fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qFvx0ohAj8


(":

Lynx7386

Nice video, never seen the maw before (recently returning player, this is all new content to me). What armor setup and skills are you using there?

Forestd16b14_ESO

Magicka builds rule the game ssssoooooo.....

leepalmer95

Speely wrote: »

Magicka Templars are gold right now. It's very easy to make a versatile build that can do anything with a few gear/CP adjustments.

Xvorg wrote: »

Acsvf wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Why do so many people use dual wield for magicka-oriented builds? I get that you receive a little extra spellpower/weapon damage from having two weapons (plus the extra enchantment/set item slot), but how does dual wield help other than that? None of the abilities will scale properly for a magicka focused character, and you wont have enough stamina to use them. I'm not overly fond of 'stat sticks'.

You have to consider the alternatives.
With destruction staff you get to weave in attacks, use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With resto staff you get to use it's abilities, and proc ultimate generation from range.
With dual wield you get extra damage.

As a magicka templar, unless you have a maelstrom staff(for wall of elements) you won't really use any of the abilities from the destruction staff tree. The weaving also might not be as useful as the extra damage given that your abilities are not instant.
You also probably won't need resto staff unless you're healing.

Hmmm, what if you use soul siphon with punt sweep? Won't you regain 1% magicka per attack and a lot of health?

Yes, this is a very nasty self-sustaining combo. Situational though. It's absolutely crazy against bosses or 1v1, but for more varied use, Quick Siphon is better imo. Either way, the combo works quite well. More of a soloing tool vs bosses or a 1v1 PvP tool, though. Which is why I prefer Quick Siphon. Casting times suck.

aLi3nZ wrote: »

How strong is stamina Templar as a class these days? Any change after patch?

Just wondering because seen a few really strong stamplars taking out groups of 3+ solo and couldn't beat with my sorc. My burst did a lot less damage then it does to others. Maybe they were in full impen gear with 5 med 2 heavy or something. Wrecking blow doing massive damage as usual

Stamplars are quite good right now. They have access to easy Major Mending (via cheap Magicka dumps like Purifying Ritual and Restoring Focus,) and with the nerf to Major Expedition and buff to sprinting, they actually have a little more mobility in relation to Magicka builds. Stamplars are my current fav build type.

Something oft-overlooked is how effective Restoring Focus is for a stamina temp. Cheap enough to keep up even considering liberal Purifying Ritual use, and has crazy synergy with other skills. A stamplar can be very tanky in medium armor and has great, efficient optikns for magicka dumps while maintaining decent damage output. Plus, no one hates you for using Radiant Destruction

Also, since you will always have Rally ticking and refreshing it for a heal, Major Mending comes in very handy.

Probably the stamina build type that benefits the most from sensible Magicka dumps imo.

Plus if you cancel a wb with jabs it so op xD , espically with the cp changes wb/jabs get boosted by thaum. Saw a tooltip of someone with 1600 on their jabs which is around 4200 per hit so 16k per jabs without crit or the templar passives, crazy dmg.

If you cancel a wb with jabs the enemy is then in execute range before they even hit the ground xD