These guys/girls are trying to ruin the market (ಠᨎಠ)

Hazethemadman

Sounds like the ESO economy, and those sound like some smart & rich people.

Solution: Don't buy it and look around for other kiosks to re-stock. This will cause aforementioned sellers to panic and either lower their prices to get back their investment or continue to buy out the market. If they do buy out the market again then just rinse and repeat.

I always hear people talking about how corrupt and broken the ESO economy is, but if anyone in the economy actually knew how an economic system worked then we wouldn't have any problems. If you don't think an item is worth what they are asking, then DON'T BUY IT. If you just say, "eh who cares about a couple thousand more gold, I just want my mats." then you are agreeing with raising the prices of the item in question.

***Always remember - the buyer has power over the seller***

Voxicity

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Not doubting your math, but 3 traders, 2 guilds, 30 sell slots on each guild = 180 items for sale.

Well I only get 30 slots on each guild, or did I miss something, is there a way to get more slots?

I don't know if I missed anything but isn't the answer to this simply that dreugh wax and other upgrade materials stack?

Korah_Eaglecry

ComboBreaker88 wrote: »

That's perfectly acceptable l. Why would it not be? You are under no obligation to buy their items..

And yet this behavior is the very thing both the Devs AND players claimed the Guild Traders were meant to prevent. The very behavior an AH is constantly blamed for.

Yet here we are.

Emma_Overload

What these guys are trying to do is lame, but there IS an upside. In order to corner the market successfully, they are forced to buy up cheaper offerings. This is good news for grinders like me, because it means we can sell certain items (like mats) very quickly... much more quickly than if we were depending on random shoppers alone.

Merlight

Selstad wrote: »

Since you can't post anything unless you're part of that guild, means that there will be inaccessible markets out there.

I agree that before guild kiosks the market was stupidly fragmented, but I don't see a problem with that now. If you think you could reap higher margins in guild A, then go and join it. No point staying and selling in guild B... unless, of course, those higher margins aren't for free -- and this is where I find the system intriguing -- with kiosks ZOS connected the market just enough to not turn it into a global exchange, gave high-volume trading guilds a manifestation in the game world, and at the same time introduced an enormous gold sink.

Selstad wrote: »

Take Mournhold per example, you have several pocket markets around the place, that varies in prices for the same epic glyph upwards to 200%.

Which only shows that demand is low and there's no penalty for asking too much. The latter is what hinders effective price discovery. For highly demanded goods you can check traders in one city and estimate their prices pretty accurately, if you ignore stupidly overpriced listings. The fact that they differ from prices in another city seems natural to me. You probably won't buy fig fruits in Finland for the same price as in Turkey, will you?

Selstad wrote: »

It's the basic of any trade, some sell and some buy. It's not about ripping of, the market has the power that they determine the value of any item based on their willingness to pay the given price. As it is today, the market doesn't have that power, because there is no market, there are pocket markets all over the world, but no actual market to determine the value of any given item.

I think you're contradicting yourself here. Trade has existed for thousands of years without global exchanges. There's nothing wrong with having different prices in different locations.

Selstad wrote: »

And no, you can't determine values of any items in the game, unless you access all the pocket markets in the entire gaming world, write down all the prices of each and every item there is, and from that work out a weighted average, which will change per day and have to be repeated each and every day. It's an insurmountable task.

Not only insurmountable, but ill-conceived. Such average is a meaningless number, it tells nothing about the value of an item in any of the "pocket markets" you're looking at. You can't come to a city where something is cheap and hope to sell it there for world-wide average.

And no, there doesn't have to be a world-wide agreement on the price of any item in the game for the market to function.

DjSolJAH

Reevster wrote: »

DjSolJAH wrote: »

Someone in area chat yesterday was selling stacks of 200 rubedo for 5k ea because they found a scrap farm/glitch. I would imagine those traders have found the same glitch and are refining large amounts of dreugh wax from scraps. Pig farm 3.0

No glitch, its just that Rudo scraps are easy to get now with the improved drop rates since TG release, soon Rubo hide will be cheap like Void stone ingots are now.... along with Ancestor silk which is dropping in price as well.

This guy was farming 1000 rubedo leather per hour. A friend bought 12 stacks off of him to sell.

L2Pissue

when i realized that, i started farming my own. now i have
1) over 30 kuta
2) over 130 temper alloy
3)hunderds of alchemy herbs
4)i struggle with wax sometimes, i buy it from anyplace other than craglorn trade guilds(EVEN if its more expensive)
5)have millions of money already, because i know when money is needed to be spent on, and so far, money is near useless.

laksikus

Thats Why i dont buy from traders. I farm myself if i need something.

Thealteregoroman

Find them in Cyrodil and take them out. lol

Lenikus

EsoRecon wrote: »

The face in the title made me come here 0.o

Pretty Much This.

Also, yes, Welcome to a Capitalist world.
I do hope OP doesn't own an iPhone or Mac, otherwise this whole claim would backfire into him faster than he can say BAIT

Waffennacht

In Wrothgar 200 mats can be gathered in one hour. On average 200 mats means at least one gold

With the prices as is, this means, you are making at least 5 to 13k per hour.

Go farm

Holy-Dope

I just finished watching THE BIG SHORT

Slammer99uk wrote: »

Not doubting your math, but 3 traders, 2 guilds, 30 sell slots on each guild = 180 items for sale.

Well I only get 30 slots on each guild, or did I miss something, is there a way to get more slots?

Continuing from where u left

180 slots * 100 items per slot= 180000 items sold.

since they have listed appx 1000+ items so i'd take a random no which is let's say 1250.

1250 x 5000 (avg price on EU-PC server)= 6250000
Bought back after price drop, let's say 4500/-
1250* 4500= 5625000 (net loss= 625000/-)
Sold again at 6000/- if they manage to buy it all back...
1250* 6000= 7500000

Profit = 1250000/- and that's not considering the taxes which is appx 8% of the sale value = 600000/- and
that results into net profit of 650000/-

I can make that much gold in less than a weak just by trading so it's a pretty lame move if that's what's they planned and I've full confidence this is not how it's go.

However feel free to correct me where i'm wrong.

Lucious90

Nothing wrong with it... Goes too fast it will crash.... and start over again. Ive done it quite a bit in other games

Eleusian

This has been going on for months. I like that people push the market up. Makes my time doing writs on multiple characters more valuable. Mainly people that leave for spells then show back up on DLC release are affected by the hike. Or non farmers. That's all a choice

Yolokin_Swagonborn

lol at all the Laissez-Faire economic lectures in the comments. This is an Elderscrolls game. Not Atlas Shrugged Online.

I believe the intent of the developers was for us to play the game, not the economy. This is ESO, not EVE. However, enforcement of "spirit of the game" principles is always a tough thing to do.

Other games have a min and max price that you can list every item for to avoid price speculation like this. I am not saying that is the answer either.

You can always try what This guy did and bust their little price fixing scheme.

ContraTempo

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@Kammakazi lemme give you a little advice.... if you need a partner in crime, all you need to do is ask.

Seriously though, farm drew wax, under cut the prices of the players your talking about, they keep buying your drew wax to try and sell their own... profit?

Ding! Ding! We have a winner!
Disrupt their scheme AND make a tidy profit on it. Or if you can't make a profit on it, accept that they were just bringing the price back up where it belongs. Econ 101.

Selstad

Merlight wrote: »

I agree that before guild kiosks the market was stupidly fragmented, but I don't see a problem with that now. If you think you could reap higher margins in guild A, then go and join it. No point staying and selling in guild B... unless, of course, those higher margins aren't for free -- and this is where I find the system intriguing -- with kiosks ZOS connected the market just enough to not turn it into a global exchange, gave high-volume trading guilds a manifestation in the game world, and at the same time introduced an enormous gold sink.

The problem is that there are a whole bunch of guilds, and you can only join 5 of them at any given time. So you can never be certain that the market you're selling in, is profitable in the long run or not.

I don't see the current system as any gold sink, mostly because there are numerous ways of manifesting gold in ESO (generating), and the AH doesn't come near at flushing that out. Per example, you introduce (generate) 100 gold into the game. The player then spends this on the guild to purchase something for 100 gold. A percentage of this is taken by the house, but the wast majority of the 100 gold gets back into circulation. It's mathematically impossible to remove that 100 gold from the game with the guild store as the only gold sink. And there aren't that many gold sinks in the game to begin with either, so what you get is a massive inflation that you can't control, check or counter, because you don't have a functional market system nor any gold sinks.

[quote="Merlight;2832500"Which only shows that demand is low and there's no penalty for asking too much. The latter is what hinders effective price discovery. For highly demanded goods you can check traders in one city and estimate their prices pretty accurately, if you ignore stupidly overpriced listings. The fact that they differ from prices in another city seems natural to me. You probably won't buy fig fruits in Finland for the same price as in Turkey, will you?[/quote]

There is a wast penalty for the game's economical system, such as no inflation check, no way of determining inflation growth, no way of measuring item worth for players and no way of determining if items are too available or not.

Your example of fruits in one land versus another, just doesn't work in this game, because the world we live in has an open market. The price of fruit in Finland is based on the price of fruit on Turkey. The markets are connected, and the affects in Turkey - as origin country - affects the price that is sold for in Finland. The markets in ESO isn't connected, the prices for a glyph in Mournhold, isn't even the same at a market place just 2 paces away. There are absolutely no market connection nor does the consumer have any "powers" in determining what the worth of an item actually is. With pocket markets like ESO have, you end up with a mess, simple as that. There's a reason that the only closed market we have in the real world is the black market, and why it's so important with trade agreements between countries, to counteract pocket markets.

Merlight wrote: »

I think you're contradicting yourself here. Trade has existed for thousands of years without global exchanges. There's nothing wrong with having different prices in different locations.

Even in the early days of trade, there were still markets centralized around a "hub". Later on, when we began to travel, that market just expanded. Be it money, stocks, bonds or other ways, markets have always "regulated" itself through supply and demand. Only in the early days did the markets have limitations based on geographical locations. But when the world opened through per example boat, the markets relatively quickly connected. Per example, Norway and the lumber industry, it was an old industry before it opened up to the world, but with the introduction of steam power and ships, the market expanded exponentially, and for many it became the major change for their family. Open market, more trade, more money flowing, a healthier economy.

Merlight wrote: »

Not only insurmountable, but ill-conceived. Such average is a meaningless number, it tells nothing about the value of an item in any of the "pocket markets" you're looking at. You can't come to a city where something is cheap and hope to sell it there for world-wide average.

And no, there doesn't have to be a world-wide agreement on the price of any item in the game for the market to function.

There are several ways of determining a "good" measurement in terms of using an average number, the most commonly used is standard deviation, though I suspect that the standard deviation in an ESO market average would be of the chart. You'd be surprised how many times we use averages to determine values, heck one of the ways to roughly estimate a company's value is through an analysis of equal companies and average them through a series of multiples.

The markets in ESO just doesn't function properly and it doesn't benefit the economy at all. You have pocket markets with prices all over the place, uncontrolled inflation (which is made even worse by more or less no gold sinks) and no way of knowing what an item is actually worth. This also limits P2P trade (player 2 player), as no player can be certain that the item they're selling is worth what they're asking. If you have a centralized AH, and someone is trying to sell something through P2P, you have a rough idea how much that item is worth before you start selling it. In ESO, that's impossible to determine, you can never be certain that the price is a fair and good price for that item, and when you see items deviate with around 100-200% - or even more - between pocket markets, you see that the market just isn't stable or at any measurement, good. No one knows what anything is worth in the game, and no one can be certain that the price asked is within the "supply and demand", because no one knows how much supply there is in the market, and no one can sure as hell know how much the demand is either.