Was Vicious Death a good idea?

Waffennacht

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

How... How can there be a solo group? Like a jumbo shrimp? Or military intelligence?

Mauz

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

The set itself is a good idea. Takes advantage from ppl sticking closely together to grieve inferior numbers. Shouldnt harm small scale at all if you adapt your play style. No ap farm I saw after TG release lasted longer then 5 min.

The only thing is the range is too big. Either this is bugged and procs on the player hinself or it makes dmg even if your mate is out of sight. At least my limited experience.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Look plain and simple if two people die near you that's a wipe point blank period. Tell me how a set that kills you at 100% health cause two people died near you is okay that's 40k damage cause of two people that's not a Zerg stopper it's a defense killer.

How do you stop a Zerg from pouring into a breach when you can't stack? We want an anti Zerg power that only works on zergs and is a wet noodle to solo or small groups, not these half-assed fixes that cause so much outrage instantly.

PriorityBalle

I think you're asking the wrong question here, Is anything ZoS does really a good idea ?

croakroach

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Look plain and simple if two people die near you that's a wipe point blank period. Tell me how a set that kills you at 100% health cause two people died near you is okay that's 40k damage cause of two people that's not a Zerg stopper it's a defense killer.

How do you stop a Zerg from pouring into a breach when you can't stack? We want an anti Zerg power that only works on zergs and is a wet noodle to solo or small groups, not these half-assed fixes that cause so much outrage instantly.

It is not 40k damage from two hits, it is around 16k; 5k if you block it. If you can't take that, you should reevaluate your build.

What you describe on defending a breach is exactly what I see as this build being designed for. Why would you use no tactics and mindlessly sit in a ball on a breach spamming abilities?

Takes-No-Prisoner

Since we're on the topic of MagNB and VD I have a question. Ran into a set up a MagNB was using yesterday I have not seen yet, pretty clever... however I was wondering if anyone else ran into this on PC/XB1? And if so how do you deal with it?

Set up was;

-Get into enemy keep
-Sneak up to the second story of the keep and head towards the keep side door areas on the upper level rafters
-Place Shadow Image onto the end of the rafters, jump down to that lower level acove
-Load up Proxy/buffs/heal on that ledge
-Teleport back to his shade as Proxy goes off then Soul Tether/Proc VD at the same time, rinse repeat~


This kind of set up might be pretty scary if your allies are not keeping an eye on those ledges. I was able to fight the guy off after a few failed attempts to shoo him away. But it took some clever baiting and timing on my part to make sure he died. Plus, Crescent Sweeps AoE ticks make it pretty hard for him to stay in cloak when I didn't have my Detect pot active. Pretty much ended his shenanigans. But yeah worth pointing out IMO. Since committing to going down to that cove area is a no go if you're under attack.

Therium104

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Vicious Death had to be one of the more idiotic ideas I have ever seen added to a game. It does not make the game more fun. It just stifles competition and ruins the funner aspects to pvp.

Therium104

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

small groups still have more capability by using this. the zerg will always have access to the same things. nothing will ever exist that is good only for small groups and not zergs. just get used to it, this helps aginst large unorganized masses. structured organized groups will always be strong unless you are organized and have similar numbers and no move could ever be added to change that. being a raid is the strongest ability in game always will be.

Think about wth you are writing. Any ability that allows a few players to wipe large groups is by definition unbalanced. In large group pvp games numbers matter. The whole thing is illogical and stupid. Who the hell balances this game.... Think about this for a second. Contemplate how idiotic your post is and the ramifications of something this dumb being in the game.

Therium104

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Therium104 wrote: »

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO wrote: »

small groups still have more capability by using this. the zerg will always have access to the same things. nothing will ever exist that is good only for small groups and not zergs. just get used to it, this helps aginst large unorganized masses. structured organized groups will always be strong unless you are organized and have similar numbers and no move could ever be added to change that. being a raid is the strongest ability in game always will be.

Think about wth you are writing. Any ability that allows a few players to wipe large groups is by definition unbalanced. In large group pvp games numbers matter. The whole thing is illogical and stupid. Who the hell balances this game.... Think about this for a second. Contemplate how idiotic your post is and the ramifications of something this dumb being in the game.

Warhammer had idiot devs who felt the same way and created bright wizard bomb groups. All that happened was these bomb groups banded together and made Zergs with bomb groups. It was stupid.

Pvp in this game is an unbalanced disaster.

croakroach

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

Therium104 wrote: »

Think about wth you are writing. Any ability that allows a few players to wipe large groups is by definition unbalanced. In large group pvp games numbers matter. The whole thing is illogical and stupid. Who the hell balances this game.... Think about this for a second. Contemplate how idiotic your post is and the ramifications of something this dumb being in the game.

Large groups of players all within 6m of each other spamming prox det and steal tornado for example will have issues. This set is doing exactly what it was designed to do, force groups to split up, use siege, out maneuver or trap the enemy, and actually use strategy.

Gone are the days of "stack on crown" groups. Adapt or die.

flguy147ub17_ESO

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Therium104 wrote: »

Vicious Death had to be one of the more idiotic ideas I have ever seen added to a game. It does not make the game more fun. It just stifles competition and ruins the funner aspects to pvp.

Man i totally agree with you and what makes it way worse is how it synergizes so well with other abilities. To me the game has lost a lot of true PVP due to this set and now everybody having det. It was a bandaid fix which now allows big Zergs to all run this to kill the players trying to break up Zergs even faster. It has the exact opposite effect of what it was intended to do lol.

Speely

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Fixing design flaws with specific FOTM sets is never a good idea.

Johngo0036

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Its another stuffed up bandaid on a bullet wound..

It aint gonna work infact with the addition of it, Zerging has just become worse,
And there is no STAMINA version of it, WHY!!!!

The norm now is everyone in a zerg ball pops the new improved PROXY det, all equipped with Vicious death and KABOOM.....

Bring back 1.5 even though DK's were boss... The balance was better, the lag was better and the game play in cyrodiil was alot nicer...

iTzStevey

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

No. It should scale like proxy det and only proc if there are other players in a meter radius of the person you're attacking. Detonation should also be severely nerfed single target.
Literally all ive seen since TG is magicka nightblades/temps with det and vicious.

umagon

I don't see how the set was a good idea when they were trying to reduce server checks; all the set has done is increase them. And the server performance is even worse than before in large battles. The other problem with the set isn't the damage, it's the fact it has no visible telegraph. Players explode instantaneously, when their bodies should only explode after a few seconds, with a red ring around the area where they died. This gives people time to move.

Reapor

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

give us all a weapon that just 1 shots people with a light attack and its more or less the same

Lil_Willie

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

We just need something to counter vicious death now. Everyone and their momma and their momma's momma is wearing vicious death.

MisterBastahrd

Nothing like seeing a group of 10 magicka NBs all running Vicious Death / Clever Alchemist / Kena. You can have zero actual talent, drink a potion, and wipe 3 people in small group with a couple button presses. Great work, Zenimax.

Morozov

Mauz wrote: »

The set itself is a good idea. Takes advantage from ppl sticking closely together to grieve inferior numbers. Shouldnt harm small scale at all if you adapt your play style. No ap farm I saw after TG release lasted longer then 5 min.

The only thing is the range is too big. Either this is bugged and procs on the player hinself or it makes dmg even if your mate is out of sight. At least my limited experience.

they weren't doing it right

Solariken

YES: I FEEL IT FIXED ZERGING

Your poll choices aren't very good OP... I don't feel like VD has affected zerging at all, but I do think it was a good addition to the game in that it's a fun utility set. I play stamplar so I've never actually used the set, but I've seen it proc a few times and it's pretty funny.

a1i3nz

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

As if enough people weren't making proxi bomb builds they went and make this a thing...

Therium104

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

It is very funny how angry Vicious Death is making people. A few just logged off or went to play a different game because so stupid.

Stratforge

It's stupid.

The-Baconator

Vicious Death was never intended to be the solution to "zerging." VD was created to discourage game play that revolved around condensing numbers ( organized ballgroups mainly ), as Wrobel said on the now infamous eso live, its certainly a type of gameplay they don't want.

Even then I still don't see why they created this set. They could have done a MILLION other things: Alter (not even remove) AoE caps, introduce a new kind of dynamic ult gen, or even buff the nondamage components of AoE ults ( negate buff\ dk healdebuff increase\etc). All they did was make 90% of stam players in cyro reroll magicka and run a single set if they're planning on fighting more than six people at a time, while giving outnumbered players absolutely no tools at all to fight when their enemy isn't condensed in a 5x5 space.

Vaoh

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Haderus has been overrun by AD (pop-locked consistently) for 6 days and 20 hours. DC and EP have 0 bars and during pure-prime time 1 bar. Was a normal server when the patch launched and I shouldn't have to pay a 150K fee to swap campaigns.

At the DC gate, 2 large groups of AD totalling a bare minimum of 40 players push us to our base, never backing off for even a second. Judging by the "Large Conflict" markers also appearing at the EP bases, it is safe to assume another 40+ AD players are trolling that side as well.

The AD Emperor, reigning for almost 7 days now, runs a 5x Clever Alchemist/5x Viscous Death/3x Willpower build. He uses the exact rotation of:
Proxy (wait 4 seconds) -> Lotus Fan -> Invis-Batswarm -> Sap Essence 99x +Healing Ward 99x. He wears an August Palatine title and doesn't use the Emperor's Regalia. Only learned he was Emp after me and a fellow (low-level) DC killed him by ourselves and I noticed his rank wasn't showing. Checked the leaderboards and the individual we killed was Emp. So sad

This set allows players with literally no skill or effort to kill groups of players! why run any other build when you can be a magicka NB capable of oneshotting GROUPS of players and escaping. Unbalanced doesn't even begin to touch on the stupidity of this set's implementation. Not even a "must be within a 5m radius of 5 player enemies to proc on enemy death" to cause its proc to kill solo players.... Why not actually balance+fix PvP performance? Only been 2 years... /rant over

Speely

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

No. Sets should exist to facilitate play styles, not determine them. Solving the zerg problem by introducing one de facto counter in the form of a gear set is silly. It neuters diversity and attempts to address a fundamental issue not by universal mechanics but by one singular element that has unsurprisingly become the entire meta.

dsalter

poll defo isn't biased. point being no it was a terrible idea because it solves very little but encourages small bomb groups

Anti_Virus

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

It's a failed set that's used by Zergs to take out small groups lol

kadar

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Voted "No" because I'm against bandaids. Fix the underlying issue.

Devilhand

NO: MY SMALL MAN/SOLO GROUPS ARE NOW BEING INSTANTLY WIPED BY ZERGS USING THE SAME TOOL DESIGNED TO PREVENT ZERGING.

Terrible idea, if ZOS dont balance Proxy det, Vicious death set, and how fighter guild skills affect vampirism (pointless to be a vampire in PvP anymore, yet WW have the upperhand), a LOT of people will quit the game before the next big patch.
And those who remain will rerole a magicka NB and expect to do the 1 man bomb showed in a video before (1 person killed +20 player, got 13k AP and 78k tel var stones in 3 seconds... Balanced? LOL)

1) Proxy det should only do a considerable good amount of dmg for pvp if at least 8 or more targets are in the radius, plus the cost of the skill should be ALOT higher. (This way people, any player now since can get it at rank 8, will use it in certain situations and not every single fight...)

2) Vicious Death Set, the damage output should be reduced significatly. A Gold armour of this set its almost 23k damage per kill (no comments...). For those that says its not a thread since it actually hit for 9k, and less if you block... Well, try to block it when an invisible magicka NB cast it at the right time, and HOPE there are not enought allies around (that of course, should be holding block to... beacuse you know, just in case).
The damage output of the set should be reduced to no more then 9k in gold gear, there for if there are enought players around each kill will mean another hit of around 3 to 4k, which as same as with proxy det with +8 players IT is something.

The point of making a armour set capable of 1 shoot people with out letting them do anything in pvp is frustating, and will determine people quit the game or rerole other class in this case. Same happened with vampirism, back in beta - first months of the game, it was almost a must, now a days you barely see vapires in PvP (different of nightblades of course, which have the upperhand with cloak.)

3) Fighters guild vs vampirism.
As said before, any skill that 1 shoot people in pvp (and i mean full geared players geting 1 shoot) should get revised, balanced, nerfed or changed.
And this is the case of fighters guild skills agaisnt vampirism, NOT against WW.
So, in order to get most of vampire passives you must have an ability slotted (Same as WW), BUT you dont have to have an ability slotted to be considered Undeath, + reduce your health regen + extra fire damage (When WW, ONLY get extra posion damage IF they are in WW transformation, and are ONLY affected by fighters guild skills if they are in WW transformation AND the player using it have the passive wich affect WW...)

Beacuse of that i propouse a balance in fighters guild skills, how they affect players in pvp, and also vampirism line should be reworked.

A) Certain fighters guild skills should only affect daedra, others undeath, others WW. Or, they should be evaluated how the extra % works in pvp. Right now, getting hit by a camo hunter + Snipe + Silver shards, means pretty much death to any vampire in cyro (fair?). Why make a skill line you cant use, beacuse there are so many copy cat players that only know to snipe people beacuse they are fan of you tube caster players...

b) Fix Clouding Swarm... It supouse to grant invisibility, so you should be getting hit by single target skills (Wreckling blow, hidden blade, radiant destruction...). Vampirism have 3 skills, were the ultimate its pretty much the only one worthy to use.

C) Either vampires should not get the recovery bonus AND the extra damage + considered undeath + no health regen, while they dont have an ability slotted (Like WW maybe...), or Get all while they have an ability sloted. But not this ridicoulous mix, were you get ALL the bad stuff and no benefit.

Either way, if ZOS dont make a change ESO population will dimish significatly (if already it didnt happen...) and +80% of the pvp players will rerole a magicka NB.

Cheers