Which balancing did we like?

phillyboy7897

Ok so it's very clear from forums what parts of balancing ppl didn't like (specifically any nerfs to thier class.)

I think it might be good to point out things they nailed it on tho.

What parts of balancing did you think were correct?

With the goal of this thread being yes I like this type of balancing it had great foresight and I would like to see more of that.

Remember it's gotta be 100% right or u will get flamed b/c forum rules.

I will start it off:

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.
Purifying ritual nerf was correct. This was OP.
Balancing dots to allow them to be double buffed when they can be double mitigated was correct.

Hmm thats all I can think of. I would say the new hardy but stamina was outperforming but not by 25%.

Oh shout out to fassalalalala guile. Heals are OP and that was a cool idea for a set.

Try your best to chill someone will say some nerf for your class was a good idea but in general for nerfs you thought were good speak for your own class to avoid flame wars.

Maybe it gets read maybe not but we can point out the good as well as the bad IMO

GreenSoup2HoT

Changes that were incorrect in my opinion.

-Radiant Mage Light: Can not be used for passive detection to find stealth-ed/sneaking player's anymore. Must now be activated repeatedly for same effect.

-Detonation and Morphs: Zos has just made this game a magicka det meta. You would be stupid not to reroll and use this ability.



Changes that were correct in my opinion:

- NB Cloak changes: This was a great change. DoT build's are now viable. Also crit builds for nightblade's can also take advantage of 100% crit cloak. A win win scenario.

-Introducing a Physical Damage CP Star: This was needed. The problem now is stamina build's still do not have physical damage morph's for skill's and ultimate's (depend's class).

-Siege damage buff: Was long overdue. Should of been hotfixed the day IC DLC came out. I can't believe such a core part of cryodill was just forgotten about.

-Player cap's for Alliance War skill's: Barrier/Purge/Rapid's and War horn all now hit 6 people max. Great change.

Jhunn

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.

No no no no.

No.

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

GreenSoup2HoT

Jhunn wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.

No no no no.

No.

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

Now their is counter-play. Even so... Clouding swarm has a 5 second duration and the reveal from mage light (+morphs) is only 3 second's. Not to mention pretty much all stamina build's will not be seen using these ability's to reveal in the first place.

Devouring Swarm in my opinion is making a comeback.

Waffennacht

I don't have any experience with updates as im on console, so I can't say much more than speculation.

Seems to me: CP caps were needed (I was wrong here), streak needed the cost increase (I mean it's still effective and very playable indicating to me it was a fair change), and the damage reduction etc in PvP.

lolo_01b16_ESO

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.

No no no no.

No.

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

Now their is counter-play. Even so... Clouding swarm has a 5 second duration and the reveal from mage light (+morphs) is only 3 second's. Not to mention pretty much all stamina build's will not be seen using these ability's to reveal in the first place.

Devouring Swarm in my opinion is making a comeback.

You do know that you can single target players in clouding swarm even without using magelight / revealing flare / piercing mark now? Which makes that skill completely useless.

phillyboy7897

Yes clouding swarm is now useless that was bad I agree Some of it is bugs not balancing (side-issue.)

A useless ult is better than an OP IMO. There are many useless ults but a single OP ult leads to it being on 50% of ppls bars.

Burning_Talons

My 100k heal from burning embers

phillyboy7897

Lolol confirmed intentional btw, so around for a while at least.

Healing is OP no argument from me here I crit heal myself for about 18-20k in Cyrodiil atm.

It's due to the double cp buff on heals and not much counter play. Fassalalalala will help maybe?

phillyboy7897

Gettin sidetracked tho what did we like that was actually good balancing?

Vaoh

Isn't it a little unfair for an ultimate to be negated due to Radiant Magelight? The key component of Bat Swarm's invisibility morph is to be invisible... otherwise you'd pick the other morph for HP gains.

It's like saying that Purge should eliminate enemy Storm Atronachs, Standards, Novas, Meteor ground AoE DoT, Negate Magics, etc.

Let ultimates be ULTIMATE!

sSolutionSs

I like the balancing of my hard disk space when I removed this game.. It was a great change

phillyboy7897

A great point and an ok troll. Issue with batswarm again all IMO it was more ultimate than most in a lot of different situations. Just in general a really really strong ult. Too strong IMO

leepalmer95

Physical Cp star was needed - Stamina builds were hitting so much harder, SA, WB and snipes.

Siege Change - Good change in general, i shouldn't be able to simply cloak a siege away. I shouldn't be able to ignore the dmg as well.

Helm Vendor - Now i feel as if if i do pvp i can actually spend ap now.

What i wish was changed:

Wb - Needs tweeking, does a lot of dmg, has bugged range, emowers itself and cc all in one, it's too strong a skill. Remove something, the empower, the cc just something to put in more in line with everything else.

Snipe - A skill that has 54+ meter range, fair enough makes sense, it shouldn't be hitting for the same amount as a wb though, not at that range, reduce the base dmg.

Whip - Seen a lot of videos and build where people go full dmg, all gold equip, 40k magicka, nearly 4k spell dmg etc... Still hits for 3.5k crit... Needs something to boost it's dmg, whether that be a increase in dmg in general or something like major armour debuff like Sa has.

Shield Stacking - I agree that Hardened + healing ward stacking should be allowed, sorc are a class with a strong class shield so of course there going to build around that. What i don't agree with is hardned ward + harness magicka, sorc can then run around with 25k+ shields which gives magicka return... Makes it very hard and annoying for other magicka builds to kill them. Stop harness + hardened ward from stacking and then i'll be happy.

Vaoh

@leepalmer95 I agree with every point you made except the last one. Feel free to not allow Conjured Ward+Annulment stacking but make this only the case in PvP. This slight balance issue should absolutely not affect PvE content. Add it to the Battle Spirit Buff.

phillyboy7897

good , and get as detailed about why the foresight on the changes u liked were good as you can w/o being boring AF and repetitive, think that is the most helpful part.

It sounds like we can all pretty much agree the CP redesign was a major success w/ the exception IMO that it puts stam builds at a disadvantage due to factors outside the CP tree (magicka has better dps skill options from non-class skill lines *read: proxy det and vicious death*)(stamina ultimates don't do physical with one exception.)

Congrats CP re-design team! We like it for the most part! If you can push through a redesign on something that big of a deal, and it doesn't get completely 23@# on in the forums that is a major success guys!

Astanphaeus

Doncellius wrote: »

Isn't it a little unfair for an ultimate to be negated due to Radiant Magelight? The key component of Bat Swarm's invisibility morph is to be invisible... otherwise you'd pick the other morph for HP gains.

It's like saying that Purge should eliminate enemy Storm Atronachs, Standards, Novas, Meteor ground AoE DoT, Negate Magics, etc.

Let ultimates be ULTIMATE!

Soul Tether is purgable.

AmalgamousPrime

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.

No no no no.

No.

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

Now their is counter-play. Even so... Clouding swarm has a 5 second duration and the reveal from mage light (+morphs) is only 3 second's. Not to mention pretty much all stamina build's will not be seen using these ability's to reveal in the first place.

Devouring Swarm in my opinion is making a comeback.

Bats hasn't been a good ultimate since 1.6. The invisibility was the only reason to choose this ultimate over any of the others since then.

AmalgamousPrime

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Yes clouding swarm is now useless that was bad I agree Some of it is bugs not balancing (side-issue.)

A useless ult is better than an OP IMO. There are many useless ults but a single OP ult leads to it being on 50% of ppls bars.

I would agree with that statement if the ultimate in question didn't come with any downsides. Vamp is supposed to be about the choice to gain powerful abilities that come with a cost. Since the nerf to mist form and now bats, vamp is just a liability most nightblades are forced to run for stealth movement speed because the only alternative is a useless set with terrible bonuses.

The-Baconator

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Jhunn wrote: »

phillyboy7897 wrote: »

Clouding swarm invisibility nerf was right on. I can tank 20 ppl while aoeing them and this is OP.

No no no no.

No.

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

Now their is counter-play. Even so... Clouding swarm has a 5 second duration and the reveal from mage light (+morphs) is only 3 second's. Not to mention pretty much all stamina build's will not be seen using these ability's to reveal in the first place.

Devouring Swarm in my opinion is making a comeback.

Devouring never even left. I was considering going back to clouding this patch but after looking at radiant changes there's just no reason as a magicka sorc\anything other than a nb to use it imo.

The-Baconator

.

Vaoh

@AmalgamousPrime I am leveling a Magica DK atm. I actually like Shifting Standard+Talons and will use Dawnbreaker of Smiting when available.

Do you think it will be worth going Vampire for the Bats ultimate when Thieves Guild releases on console?

phillyboy7897

You make a valid point regarding clouding swarm.

I'm coming from the perspective of a tank, and the tanking passive alone by far outdoes the downsides.

But I don't want to just debate clouding swarm here, plenty of posts discussing it elsewhere.

Aside from disliking the clouding swarm nerf, what did u think they got right w/ the balancing and why?

If all we do is say what we don't like it is much less clear for them, than if they nail something and we say yes that was good more of that pls. Or of this is not true, still a combination of what we like and do not like is more beneficial than only pointing out flaws.

I understand the subtext to all of this is that the lag is still there and unfixed and agitating everyone, that is a different thread, in fact 20 of them.

Minalan

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shield Stacking - I agree that Hardened + healing ward stacking should be allowed, sorc are a class with a strong class shield so of course there going to build around that. What i don't agree with is hardned ward + harness magicka, sorc can then run around with 25k+ shields which gives magicka return... Makes it very hard and annoying for other magicka builds to kill them. Stop harness + hardened ward from stacking and then i'll be happy.

Except that healing ward - as a ward - only lasts a couple of seconds, it's usefulness as such is severely limited.

I understand the frustration though. 500 CP sorcs are unkillable now, you get one or two wanna-be heroes sitting on capped resources, and it takes five times their number to kill them. They think that they're great, but they really aren't. So something has to change, but one ward and a tiny heal one isn't enough until you get 100 in bastion.

leepalmer95

Minalan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shield Stacking - I agree that Hardened + healing ward stacking should be allowed, sorc are a class with a strong class shield so of course there going to build around that. What i don't agree with is hardned ward + harness magicka, sorc can then run around with 25k+ shields which gives magicka return... Makes it very hard and annoying for other magicka builds to kill them. Stop harness + hardened ward from stacking and then i'll be happy.

Except that healing ward - as a ward - only lasts a couple of seconds, it's usefulness as such is severely limited.

I understand the frustration though. 500 CP sorcs are unkillable now, you get one or two wanna-be heroes sitting on capped resources, and it takes five times their number to kill them. They think that they're great, but they really aren't. So something has to change, but one ward and a tiny heal one isn't enough until you get 100 in bastion.

I never said anything about changing healing ward, i said i agree hardened + healing ward or harness + healing ward is fine, it's a heal.

What i don't agree with is the hardened + harness stacking, it's very annoying playing any other magicka class, you have to some how get through 25k~ shields before you even touch their hp, if you do actually get through them they'll hardened+harness+healing and you won't be able to get their shields down again before they heal.

Minalan

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Shield Stacking - I agree that Hardened + healing ward stacking should be allowed, sorc are a class with a strong class shield so of course there going to build around that. What i don't agree with is hardned ward + harness magicka, sorc can then run around with 25k+ shields which gives magicka return... Makes it very hard and annoying for other magicka builds to kill them. Stop harness + hardened ward from stacking and then i'll be happy.

Except that healing ward - as a ward - only lasts a couple of seconds, it's usefulness as such is severely limited.

I understand the frustration though. 500 CP sorcs are unkillable now, you get one or two wanna-be heroes sitting on capped resources, and it takes five times their number to kill them. They think that they're great, but they really aren't. So something has to change, but one ward and a tiny heal one isn't enough until you get 100 in bastion.

I never said anything about changing healing ward, i said i agree hardened + healing ward or harness + healing ward is fine, it's a heal.

What i don't agree with is the hardened + harness stacking, it's very annoying playing any other magicka class, you have to some how get through 25k~ shields before you even touch their hp, if you do actually get through them they'll hardened+harness+healing and you won't be able to get their shields down again before they heal.

But... You're okay with Stam builds that can roll forty or fifty times in a row.

Fix both or neither.

WillhelmBlack

So cloaking projectiles OK but purifying not OK?

DK has reflect
NB Cloak
SORC ward
TEMP?

jbcrocks

1.5 easy

leepalmer95

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So cloaking projectiles OK but purifying not OK?

DK has reflect
NB Cloak
SORC ward
TEMP?

Temp has a heal thats 1 button = full hp and the ability to purge dots/snares/roots with a cheap costing skill.

Takes-No-Prisoner

Jhunn wrote: »

Clouding swarm is useless in this patch.

This ultimates usefulness is really hit or miss depending on who you talk to though. Invisibility won't mean anything for the guy who already mastered how to use it. It's not necessarily a 'hit-button and auto-win' type of Ult, and certainty doesn't seem like it will scurrying away never to be seen with TG. It's a really smoke n' mirrors ulti and we will still see people being able to use it smartly with or without the guy being seen.

Alcast

We should not talk about the word BALANCE if there is none.