So, that Vicious Death...

WillhelmBlack

FYI this doesn't stop zergs. Only removing the AoE cap can do that.

booksmcread

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

FYI this doesn't stop zergs. Only removing the AoE cap can do that.

It's really effective at killing PUGs. A player group no one in Cyrodiil ever complained about.

HoloYoitsu

booksmcread wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

FYI this doesn't stop zergs. Only removing the AoE cap can do that.

It's really effective at killing PUGs. A player group no one in Cyrodiil ever complained about.

Until now.

Crown wrote: »

Players are now going to have to make an effort to stay far away from anyone who *might* not be good enough to dodge or block incoming damage in fear of the vicious death procs that could hit them.

This is dumb.
[...]
My play is being affected because of others who end up in the same area and die to VD. There is something wrong with that.

HoloYoitsu

Update for those confused by VD in their death recap.

ZOS_TFlemming wrote: »

To clarify, this is a visual bug with death recap where it still counts the proc as a hit for death recap purposes even though you're already dead. The set is not actually dealing damage to the person who procs it before they die, sorry for the confusion.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Crown wrote: »

I'd like to point out that I've been running solo all day, and I've died about 10 times throughout the day to vicious death procs on people who happened to be around me or responded to the same attack.

8 DC taking Roe mine, four of us (I'm guessing the other three were solo as well) show up to take it back, two of them get 5-6 meteors between them and I died to one snipe, one hit from a mage guard, and two vicious death procs.

I even died once because I was on the wall at Ash, and five people in front of me got double-hit with cold-fire that I moved out of! Apparently siege damage can proc VD.

Players are now going to have to make an effort to stay far away from anyone who *might* not be good enough to dodge or block incoming damage in fear of the vicious death procs that could hit them.

This is dumb.

MrBM wrote: »

lol screw the QQers their faults for zergging and zergging and zergging and zergging.

@MrBM You want to blame people who run balled up, propose a solution. Most of them don't know how to play well on their own. Between the two 30-day campaigns on PC/NA, I have three toons in the top 10 of the leaderboard, where more than 90% of my AP was made playing alone or in a group of 2. My play is being affected because of others who end up in the same area and die to VD. There is something wrong with that.

Inb4 someone takes a same-faction level 10 with no armor out to cyrodiil, gets intentionally lit with an enemy Inevitable det, then jumps naked into a group of friendlys.

I have seen dumber "spirit of the game" breaking trolls using friendly cross-alliance participation. It's only a matter of time.

And you though using cross faction help to get scrolls was a problem...

ToRelax

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

I'd like to point out that I've been running solo all day, and I've died about 10 times throughout the day to vicious death procs on people who happened to be around me or responded to the same attack.

8 DC taking Roe mine, four of us (I'm guessing the other three were solo as well) show up to take it back, two of them get 5-6 meteors between them and I died to one snipe, one hit from a mage guard, and two vicious death procs.

I even died once because I was on the wall at Ash, and five people in front of me got double-hit with cold-fire that I moved out of! Apparently siege damage can proc VD.

Players are now going to have to make an effort to stay far away from anyone who *might* not be good enough to dodge or block incoming damage in fear of the vicious death procs that could hit them.

This is dumb.

MrBM wrote: »

lol screw the QQers their faults for zergging and zergging and zergging and zergging.

@MrBM You want to blame people who run balled up, propose a solution. Most of them don't know how to play well on their own. Between the two 30-day campaigns on PC/NA, I have three toons in the top 10 of the leaderboard, where more than 90% of my AP was made playing alone or in a group of 2. My play is being affected because of others who end up in the same area and die to VD. There is something wrong with that.

Inb4 someone takes a same-faction level 10 with no armor out to cyrodiil, gets intentionally lit with an enemy Inevitable det, then jumps naked into a group of friendlys.

I have seen dumber "spirit of the game" breaking trolls using friendly cross-alliance participation. It's only a matter of time.

And you though using cross faction help to get scrolls was a problem...

Makes little sense to do that... would deal more damage just playing on the other faction, especially since then this player can proc VD himself as well. Looking out for camps and stealthed groups is already way worse.

Xsorus

Whats weird is the entire time i pvped today...I didn't die to Vicious Death once...

I died to virtually everything else..but didn't have a single VD thing on my death recount.

Crown

I just spent an hour playing on my NB with 5xVD / 5xJulianos / 2xWillpower, and have to say that the 20k VD explosions are awesome. After every exclamation in TS related to massive numbers of kills and AP came a, "this is really stupid - it takes no skill" type of comment.

WillhelmBlack

Xsorus wrote: »

Whats weird is the entire time i pvped today...I didn't die to Vicious Death once...

I died to virtually everything else..but didn't have a single VD thing on my death recount.

I died 4 times, each time was a zerg outrunning me on my templar. I guess my house was too inviting? Still haven't seen VD on European, and I'm a campaign hopping little toe rag.

Derra

Problem isn´t really VD - proxydet is way worse.

There is no place for detonation in this game. Rework it to a 10s buff that scales all your normal aoes for targets hit.

Etaniel

Derra wrote: »

Problem isn´t really VD - proxydet is way worse.

There is no place for detonation in this game. Rework it to a 10s buff that scales all your normal aoes for targets hit.

Would be great, but the server strain that would cause..... dayum

GRxKnight

Derra wrote: »

Problem isn´t really VD - proxydet is way worse.

There is no place for detonation in this game. Rework it to a 10s buff that scales all your normal aoes for targets hit.

I'd be fine with proxy leaving the game as long as they remove aoe caps along with it...problem is in this day and age of pvp sustained damage is garbage and you need high end burst to effectively kill people (not saying it's not possible to kill with sustained damage, but not many builds will succeed with it)...the entire game would need to be reworked or rolled all the way back to 1.4/1.5 (whichever had dynamic ult generation), plus all these new sets would need to be reworked, skills reworked...in essence a lot of stuff would have to be looked at and it's not as simple as people make it out to be

Alcast

it exploded on 12k of my HP. gg zos

https://youtu.be/FLOEPMPyDpQ

Riggsy

My complaint is that this set is another tool for Magicka users while Stam builds get the shaft. The original zerg solution, Prox Det, is magicka based, so now they added a set that only comes in light armor? Why didn't they make this a crafted set instead.

Derra

Alcast wrote: »

it exploded on 12k of my HP. gg zos

https://youtu.be/FLOEPMPyDpQ

Classic health desync issue. You were dead long before for the game server (see 5k noncrit radiant dmg tick).

Hand_Bacon

Why didn't they make this an aoe disease that lowers healing received and does a small amount of dmg as well as speed reduction. Make it immune to purge. If its aim was to kill zergs, wouldn;'t this have helped without being a "big kaboom damn the consequences" type of mechanic.

GRxKnight

Riggsy wrote: »

My complaint is that this set is another tool for Magicka users while Stam builds get the shaft. The original zerg solution, Prox Det, is magicka based, so now they added a set that only comes in light armor? Why didn't they make this a crafted set instead.

Stam users getting the shaft? Are you for real dude? Were you pvping under a rock in the Orsinum update? Steel tornado, vigor, Shuffle, Wrecking Blow, camo hunter, snipe one-shots...not to mention not having a physical damage reduction star in the champion tree but having one for spell damage reduction...sorry that you feel like stam users got little to nothing here in this update but they were dominate all last update...i don't agree with making one build type, magicka or stamina, the FOTM build...but don't act like stam builds are weak (considering they have the tools to not be wading through the mud that is cyrodil right now)

Ghost-Shot

GRxKnight wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Problem isn´t really VD - proxydet is way worse.

There is no place for detonation in this game. Rework it to a 10s buff that scales all your normal aoes for targets hit.

I'd be fine with proxy leaving the game as long as they remove aoe caps along with it...problem is in this day and age of pvp sustained damage is garbage and you need high end burst to effectively kill people (not saying it's not possible to kill with sustained damage, but not many builds will succeed with it)...the entire game would need to be reworked or rolled all the way back to 1.4/1.5 (whichever had dynamic ult generation), plus all these new sets would need to be reworked, skills reworked...in essence a lot of stuff would have to be looked at and it's not as simple as people make it out to be

@GRxKnight I think that was 1.DAOC

Hand_Bacon

If nothing else, this game's PvP makes me miss the glory days of DAOC.

GRxKnight

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

If nothing else, this game's PvP makes me miss the glory days of DAOC.

ALL OF THE DAOC @Ghostbane @Ghost-Shot @Zheg

Ghost-Shot

GRxKnight wrote: »

Hand_Bacon wrote: »

If nothing else, this game's PvP makes me miss the glory days of DAOC.

ALL OF THE DAOC @Ghostbane @Ghost-Shot @Zheg

SO MUCH DAOC

Kupoking

The face of zos when they realize that the sets and abilities used to counter zergs are used by zergs...

danno8

Removing AoE caps makes way more sense than this set.

AoE you can see and avoid, the skill of the player is the important part and everyone benefits the same.

With this set it is the skill of the person next to you that matters, and you can't see it coming since you aren't the one necessarily taking damage, and only people who run the set benefit.

I just don't think a set bonus should be such a strong deciding factor in any PvP.

Sanct16

I think a lot of the complaints regarding VD are related to people not having adapted yet. We are mostly running 8 man groups since the patch and for that group size I feel this patch is incredible.

What I like most about this patch is that numbers are a huge liability whereas until now a bigger group was always "better". Now the bigger your group is, the more damage you take from enemy burst and also the slower you get. There is actually a drawback to running big groups now. For me this is a great change - even tho I would have prefered some other solution.

Also there is no reason to be afraid of 24 man groups once they all have VD. The crucial part for groups is surving - not damaging. In a 24 man group you have enough damage to instantly kill everything in your way - as seen in previous patches. The biggest concern was always how to stay alive while trying to get as many opponents in your way as possible. In previous patches with maneuvers and barriers it wasn't too hard as you could outmaneuver enemy bombs and safe the slow guys in your raid with barriers. However with the changes, neither maneuver nor barrier are a reliable defense which leads stacked groups to be incredibly vulnerable to burst damage.

I really don't see any reason to play a 24 man raid this patch - you get worse AP, your group is slower, you will suffer embarassing wipes, etc. If I'd really want to play with 24 for some reason I'd honestly split them into 3 seperate 8 man groups and try to coordinate their movement. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will be by far stronger. 8 man is enough to kill lot of *** on impact - and you will have another group to cover you while you retreat. Keep fights will be *** easy if you don't get all the attention on one grp but have several grps at different positions.

Dyride

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a lot of the complaints regarding VD are related to people not having adapted yet. We are mostly running 8 man groups since the patch and for that group size I feel this patch is incredible.

What I like most about this patch is that numbers are a huge liability whereas until now a bigger group was always "better". Now the bigger your group is, the more damage you take from enemy burst and also the slower you get. There is actually a drawback to running big groups now. For me this is a great change - even tho I would have prefered some other solution.

Also there is no reason to be afraid of 24 man groups once they all have VD. The crucial part for groups is surving - not damaging. In a 24 man group you have enough damage to instantly kill everything in your way - as seen in previous patches. The biggest concern was always how to stay alive while trying to get as many opponents in your way as possible. In previous patches with maneuvers and barriers it wasn't too hard as you could outmaneuver enemy bombs and safe the slow guys in your raid with barriers. However with the changes, neither maneuver nor barrier are a reliable defense which leads stacked groups to be incredibly vulnerable to burst damage.

I really don't see any reason to play a 24 man raid this patch - you get worse AP, your group is slower, you will suffer embarassing wipes, etc. If I'd really want to play with 24 for some reason I'd honestly split them into 3 seperate 8 man groups and try to coordinate their movement. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will be by far stronger. 8 man is enough to kill lot of *** on impact - and you will have another group to cover you while you retreat. Keep fights will be *** easy if you don't get all the attention on one grp but have several grps at different positions.

Agreed, if all you care about is farming AP or defending. Pushing objectives or taking a defended keep is complete *** right now.

Xsorus

I don't know..I'm having a ton of fun defending and taking objectives.....But i'm not stacking with a bunch of people..so that might be why.

Zheg

Sanct16 wrote: »

I think a lot of the complaints regarding VD are related to people not having adapted yet. We are mostly running 8 man groups since the patch and for that group size I feel this patch is incredible.

What I like most about this patch is that numbers are a huge liability whereas until now a bigger group was always "better". Now the bigger your group is, the more damage you take from enemy burst and also the slower you get. There is actually a drawback to running big groups now. For me this is a great change - even tho I would have prefered some other solution.

Also there is no reason to be afraid of 24 man groups once they all have VD. The crucial part for groups is surving - not damaging. In a 24 man group you have enough damage to instantly kill everything in your way - as seen in previous patches. The biggest concern was always how to stay alive while trying to get as many opponents in your way as possible. In previous patches with maneuvers and barriers it wasn't too hard as you could outmaneuver enemy bombs and safe the slow guys in your raid with barriers. However with the changes, neither maneuver nor barrier are a reliable defense which leads stacked groups to be incredibly vulnerable to burst damage.

I really don't see any reason to play a 24 man raid this patch - you get worse AP, your group is slower, you will suffer embarassing wipes, etc. If I'd really want to play with 24 for some reason I'd honestly split them into 3 seperate 8 man groups and try to coordinate their movement. I'd be willing to bet a lot of money that this will be by far stronger. 8 man is enough to kill lot of *** on impact - and you will have another group to cover you while you retreat. Keep fights will be *** easy if you don't get all the attention on one grp but have several grps at different positions.

You make less AP per kill, but the amount of kills you get ramps up significantly. Our leaderboard positions are quite high considering we came into TF late in the campaign. Let's not forget that with forward camps combined with the other changes that the meta is typically one gigantic fight at a single location (yay -_-). If you can kill, or at the very least tag the people there, it doesn't matter if your AP is lower for each kill - you're killing far more.

I haven't pvp'd much the last few days because of work and moving, and because the game is a steaming pile of *** that lags and crashes whenever you try to actually pvp, but other than one night where we played poorly, we've been able to run a large raid highly successfully. Just having even a few people in raid with VD lets us tear through massive numbers like butter. It's prox det 2.0 - people have already adapted and the people that it was meant to target are going to use it more effectively. It took people a while to realize prox det wasn't, in fact, healthy for pvp; it seems like people are realizing the same for VD, but far quicker this time around.

Between the lag and FPS issues, the gigantic zergs because of forward camps, the asinine siege damage and amount of siege, insane damage numbers, broken itemization, class balance issues, and truly incompetent developers, I don't even want to log in the game much less lead a pvp group.

You may be one of the few that think VD is healthy and enjoys the meta, but the majority of posts and threads I've seen of late run counter.

GRxKnight

From what I've seen in regards to the AP/Hour rate of AP gains when I'm playing in an 8-man or 24 raid, there is little to no difference at all. You're almost wanting to run the 24 more and more though since, as we saw last night at Ash, entire factions aren't enough to take a defended keep. Below are two instances as to the silliness of what transpired due to Vicious Death (set is so stupidly OP I hope they never nerf it but at the same time I wouldn't mind it)

Satiar

Last night was the first time I think I got utterly knocked out by VD. We bombed hard, holding... Holding.... Than a stone treb hit, someone in the middle of us went BOOM and 9 bodies went from full to dead instantly.

The burst potential is so crazy though. The very next fight I had over 21 KB, meteor proxy into the group returned 345 ultimate (Wtffffff) so I dropped another one and got a full meteor back again. Just crazy how much damage it does and how many KBs you can get from it. I don't even have 3k Spell Damage

Cinbri

I like it - already earned 1kk gold on this set.