Tools vs large blob groups

tinythinker

Some folks are upset about counters to snare and root abilities not working or being ineffective. Absolutely yes, that should be fixed. I say that first so I'm not misunderstood. Anyway, blob groups still exist and are still highly effective. They should be, but with powerful counters that actually work. If new sets like Vicious Death don't balance things out, other options are available. Options such as...

• add a snare to flaming oil pots
  
  Make it hard to just run in and out when oil is being poured. Increase the effectiveness by adding a snare.

• boost the DoT from oil catapults
  
  The base damage is still really weak, but if the DoT were boosted by 100% because the burning pitch sticks to you it would work better.

• scale the snare of caltrops, flaming oil, and oil catapults
  
  If one target gets hit, 10% snare. Each additional target, +10%, up to 70%. It's an extra calculation, yes, but a very simple and direct calculation, and it discourage balling up and spamming. Same logic as Proxy Det.

• scale the healing debuff of meatbag catapults
  
  Same scaling as for oil catapults. Again, simple and direct calculation.

• reduce the damage versus a single target for Proxy Det by at least 40%, raise the maximum scaled increase for additional targets to 150% or more.
  
  Simple, finally make it so that this ability works as originally intended.

• invert the AoE caps
  
  I get it, ZOS doesn't want to remove AoE caps until other options are exhausted. So here is a good next experiment. Invert the caps. It would look like this:
  
  - first 6 targets take 50% damage
  - next 6 targets take 100% damage
  - next 18 targets take 150% damage
  - next 18 targets take 200% damage
  - next 6 targets take 250% damage
  - last 6 targets take 300% damage
  
  If a group of 30 players were spamming AoEs against a group of 6, the smaller group would have a 50% damage debuff. Of course, if *all* of the players in the larger group were spamming damage the smaller group would still be melting after their barrier wore off, but in they would have a chance to do 150% damage to 60% of that larger group while their shields and heals held. Yet if the smaller group holds out and the larger group shrinks, the damage scale starts to even out on both sides.
  
  Some might complain that 250-300% damage scales too high on the far end, but consider that that requires a group of 54-60 players to be close enough to each other to be hit by the same AoEs. So yeah, the 12 who get hit with the high end of that scale are asking to burn.

So, if you have Proxy Det and try to hit 4 people, not only is the original scale for the ability itself lower, but that gets cut in half by the inverted caps. Over 6 people, it is already scaling way up and now does 100% of that extra damage to targets 7, 8, 9, etc. In a group over 12, both the ability's own scaling and the inverted caps make it a nightmare. Over 24, total carnage, even with Barrier and self-shields.

Normal raids of 20-24 can still function perfectly well with adjustments for tactics, but the giant swarms of 35-50 or more? Either they split up (either literally or at least in internal organization, such as assigning more people to Barriers, heals, etc) or they melt. And even if they split up melting is a serious risk. Want to have a massive blob? Better hope it's well coordinated. If so, you still can get a decent advantage, but if not...

Decreasing mobility and increasing damage based on how many players are stacked closely to each other, rather than having the same effect for all size groups, makes much more sense if giving a counterweight against benefits of being in a large, tightly stacked group is the goal. So an important question to ask becomes, "Is that ZOS's goal?"

HoloYoitsu

I have a better 3 step plan.

1. Remove AoE caps.
2. Bring back dynamic ult gen.
3. Bring back ground oils.
4. ????
5. Profit.

Sublime

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I have a better 3 step plan.

1. Remove AoE caps.
2. Bring back dynamic ult gen.
3. Bring back ground oils.
4. Enjoy QQ on the forums
5. Profit.

tinythinker

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I have a better 3 step plan.

1. Remove AoE caps.
2. Bring back dynamic ult gen.
3. Bring back ground oils.
4. ????
5. Profit.

Except that you know those things aren't going to happen, at least the last two and probably the first I doubt my ideas will either, but they are still more likely, even if by a very small margin.

I think Proxy Det was supposed to be the new ground oil but it didn't work out that way. They could rework a morph of Trap Beast into an AoE form that functions like a makeshift ground oil, but I doubt that will happen, either.