Corrupt guilds, junk trader slots and game-wrecking tactics

nans_biscuits

The whole guild trader system is corrupt, i wish we had an open auction house server wide from day one.

idk

Not sure what the OP is talking about. As a casual player I've had no issue finding what I wanted and can sell my matts (i.e. Wood and such) without issue. Works well as it has since inception of the game.

KaleidoscopeEyz

Outbid them for the trader. Problem solved. You're welcome.

catalyst10e

Well I'm just going to sit here and watch this thread get closed, as all the rest of them have been closed, as it breaks the forums rules concerning conspiracy theories.

To add my .02¢ Outbid them, or don't shop there and the problem fixes itself.

AOECAPS

Cherryblossom wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

EnemyOfDaState wrote: »

Wish there was a way for you guys to get master merchant. I can just imagine how crazy the console prices are.

Ehrn I look prices generally aren't to bad but there is a cpl of guilds and people in those guilds that try and price fix everything by buying up material and then attempting reselling for a 200% increase

You can't say that, that can only happen with Auction Houses, have you not heard!

It's probably because I have to waste my time sitting in load screens traveling from place to place. I'd prefer an auction house but eh it won't happen ZoS will say that it will contribute to lag or some asinine response. I have noticed in high traffic areas guild traders with absolutely nothing for sale or very low gear and food and there wouldn't be a logical way for them to have the money to pay for it

Xjcon

First off, don't buy from this guild. Join a couple yourself and just buy from the banker, you can access all your guild stores there (unless it's different from pc) if they are dumping huge sums of gold to hold down high traffic spots the pressure will mount fast. Make sure to tell as many people as possible about that work around. This guild will go broke after awhile and the people who suddenly can't sell their goods will be less inclined to donate if they didn't sell a bunch of stuff.

I always try to buy from my own guilds, it supports them and with MM on PC price fluctuation is super low.

jzholloway

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well I'm just going to sit here and watch this thread get closed, as all the rest of them have been closed, as it breaks the forums rules concerning conspiracy theories.

To add my .02¢ Outbid them, or don't shop there and the problem fixes itself.

Umm... Mournhold PS4 NA - its not a theory,

The issues with guild traders:
1. You have to be in a guild that has a stall to be able to sell anything with any viability
2. It is very expensive for guilds - whether they are "honest" or "corrupt" to get a good stall to sell items
3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.
4. Guilds that have a lot of gold can potientally buy up everything of one item - i.e. tempering alloys, and then sell them back way higher to control the market - you laugh, it has been attempted.
5. If your guild has a trader in a crappy location, well, tough luck.

To me, the solution is simple - a universal auction house (like FFXIV) where the player who wants to sell has to pay for a retainer who has a specific number of selling spots. The retainers can be bought with in game gold or the crown store with a monthly fee (not too large). Up to 4 retainers can be bought and maintained. If ZOS wants guilds to be able to make money, then whoever purchases a retainer can align that retainer with a guild (maybe an incentive to guilds who claim keeps in PVP - only the retainers aligned can sell at those keeps or resources). This would enable anyone to sell anywhere - except Cyrodiil - without having to be in a guild or pay guild fees, etc. It would also ensure that no guild, or guild alliance, could monopolize in game sales.

That is my 2 cents.

starkerealm

jzholloway wrote: »

3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.

Well, one solution is to not join a guild that charges a weekly fee. I mean, my trade guild's only requirement is that I log in once every 7 days, and keep stuff listed for sale.

That said, I am on PC, and the guild situation there is a lot less unstable.

jzholloway

starkerealm wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.

Well, one solution is to not join a guild that charges a weekly fee. I mean, my trade guild's only requirement is that I log in once every 7 days, and keep stuff listed for sale.

That said, I am on PC, and the guild situation there is a lot less unstable.

Yeah, when I played on PC, it was a lot more stable. i do think text chat in zones will help. Problem with not joining one where you need to pay is, well, finding one on console that has a good location.

myrrrorb14_ESO

They need to make kiosks non-tradable. Once you win the bid it is locked for the week. Shouldn't matter if a guild disbands or not.

ZOS doesn't want a universal auction house. It is supposedly even worse for the economy than what we have. And to be fair I can see how that can be abused in a spectacular way.

catalyst10e

jzholloway wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well I'm just going to sit here and watch this thread get closed, as all the rest of them have been closed, as it breaks the forums rules concerning conspiracy theories.

To add my .02¢ Outbid them, or don't shop there and the problem fixes itself.

Umm... Mournhold PS4 NA - its not a theory,

The issues with guild traders:
1. You have to be in a guild that has a stall to be able to sell anything with any viability
2. It is very expensive for guilds - whether they are "honest" or "corrupt" to get a good stall to sell items
3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.
4. Guilds that have a lot of gold can potientally buy up everything of one item - i.e. tempering alloys, and then sell them back way higher to control the market - you laugh, it has been attempted.
5. If your guild has a trader in a crappy location, well, tough luck.

To me, the solution is simple - a universal auction house (like FFXIV) where the player who wants to sell has to pay for a retainer who has a specific number of selling spots. The retainers can be bought with in game gold or the crown store with a monthly fee (not too large). Up to 4 retainers can be bought and maintained. If ZOS wants guilds to be able to make money, then whoever purchases a retainer can align that retainer with a guild (maybe an incentive to guilds who claim keeps in PVP - only the retainers aligned can sell at those keeps or resources). This would enable anyone to sell anywhere - except Cyrodiil - without having to be in a guild or pay guild fees, etc. It would also ensure that no guild, or guild alliance, could monopolize in game sales.

That is my 2 cents.

to Quote @ZOS_AlanG, as I've literally seen this message at least 3 times now:

Hi everyone, after reviewing this thread we are going to be keeping it closed. As a general rule, if you feel someone is breaking the rules in-game please submit an in-game report or a support ticket detailing the problem. This allows the issue to be discussed fully, and doesn’t risk infringing on the forum rules concerning Naming and Shaming or Conspiracies.

I'm on PS4 NA, I have no issues finding what I need to in Mournhold, and their pricing is competitive with the other guild traders. If they happen to charge their members to keep their position within the guild, a lot of guilds do that. And if they happen to make enough from those charges to maintain control of multiple guild traders, more power to them. However unless they make enough to even "break even" the price for owning multiple guild traders will eventually outweigh the ROI. It's not sustainable, especially when a location only sells (as you say) 3 items (this is, again not my experience). When it gets to the point where it's 1 guild trader selling items and the rest are not, the problem polices itself when people stop even going to Mournhold to visit 1 guild trader who is overpricing their items.

WalkingLegacy

I just want to inject that I hate the guild trade system.

RAGUNAnoOne

Just thought I would leave this here: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/229968/guest-passes-a-new-guild-trader-concept

BippNasty

AFrostWolf wrote: »

Welcome to Elder Cartels Online. Where ZOS doesn't give a *** or else we would have had an Auction House months ago.

More like we dont want an auction house

tonemd

Duiwel wrote: »

Kinda sucks pc can't have voice chat in game though.

If people don't want voice chat for pc - settings, gameplay - Voice chat - enabled/disabled

bam those of us who want it can, those of us who don't won't.

I would love to be able to communicate with pugs via voice chat instead of explaining things via text.


As for the topic OP, I hope they do something about it for you

Don't need voice chat. Too annoying. We need (and have) sub chat channels. Those channels need to be advertised and heavily community policed to contain only WTS, WTB, WTT communications.

I never see such channels advertised in zone (PC, US)

AverageJo3Gam3r

Check out the game theory episode on WoWs inflation problems caused by an auction house. The guild trader system, while not perfect, fights inflation by creating an artificial gold sink (weekly trader bids). In an economy where resources are endless (daily quest rewards, mobs & resource node spawns), you need a significant gold sink to counteract the millions of gold players earn each week killing mobs and completing quests.

Ajaxduo

Time for a auction house!

jzholloway

catalyst10e wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well I'm just going to sit here and watch this thread get closed, as all the rest of them have been closed, as it breaks the forums rules concerning conspiracy theories.

To add my .02¢ Outbid them, or don't shop there and the problem fixes itself.

Umm... Mournhold PS4 NA - its not a theory,

The issues with guild traders:
1. You have to be in a guild that has a stall to be able to sell anything with any viability
2. It is very expensive for guilds - whether they are "honest" or "corrupt" to get a good stall to sell items
3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.
4. Guilds that have a lot of gold can potientally buy up everything of one item - i.e. tempering alloys, and then sell them back way higher to control the market - you laugh, it has been attempted.
5. If your guild has a trader in a crappy location, well, tough luck.

To me, the solution is simple - a universal auction house (like FFXIV) where the player who wants to sell has to pay for a retainer who has a specific number of selling spots. The retainers can be bought with in game gold or the crown store with a monthly fee (not too large). Up to 4 retainers can be bought and maintained. If ZOS wants guilds to be able to make money, then whoever purchases a retainer can align that retainer with a guild (maybe an incentive to guilds who claim keeps in PVP - only the retainers aligned can sell at those keeps or resources). This would enable anyone to sell anywhere - except Cyrodiil - without having to be in a guild or pay guild fees, etc. It would also ensure that no guild, or guild alliance, could monopolize in game sales.

That is my 2 cents.

to Quote @ZOS_AlanG, as I've literally seen this message at least 3 times now:

Hi everyone, after reviewing this thread we are going to be keeping it closed. As a general rule, if you feel someone is breaking the rules in-game please submit an in-game report or a support ticket detailing the problem. This allows the issue to be discussed fully, and doesn’t risk infringing on the forum rules concerning Naming and Shaming or Conspiracies.

I'm on PS4 NA, I have no issues finding what I need to in Mournhold, and their pricing is competitive with the other guild traders. If they happen to charge their members to keep their position within the guild, a lot of guilds do that. And if they happen to make enough from those charges to maintain control of multiple guild traders, more power to them. However unless they make enough to even "break even" the price for owning multiple guild traders will eventually outweigh the ROI. It's not sustainable, especially when a location only sells (as you say) 3 items (this is, again not my experience). When it gets to the point where it's 1 guild trader selling items and the rest are not, the problem polices itself when people stop even going to Mournhold to visit 1 guild trader who is overpricing their items.

The issue isn't finding what you need, or even competitive pricing - of course the prices are competitive, with each other that is how capitalism usually works) - the issue is, if you want to be in a guild that has a good spot you a) have to be able to join that guild, and then b) pay whatever they want to charge you - which yes, 5k a week is good, but some could easily charge more.

The issue is not being able to find something - or even, in a lot of cases, the cost of an item (since a lot of people look to see what other people are selling items for and either sell for the same price or slightly undercut them), the problem is accessibility to all to sell items. The other problem is that it is entirely possible for a group of guild to ge together and control what sells for what - either to the benefit or detriment of those buying. An no, telling people not to pay such and such for an item does not work, because someone will always buy an item for whatever because they can.

A universal trader - that still costs in game gold to have selling rights (or shoot me, bought in a crown store) would not ruin the economy in game - it is essentially what we have now, just controlled by guilds and set by location. If I wanted to sell 200 tempering alloys for 100 gold a pop, I could (not going to happen) or vice versa, 10k a pop, I could - someone will always undercut me, and someone will always sell higher (especially if they see them go for 10k), regardless of whether or not it is guild controlled or not.

BlackEar

Zenimax created this system theirselves. They have to face the reality and we players must do the same. They simply gave us the tools but we decided to build this.

Zenimax did not want to go global AH, but instead decentralizing the economy, now, as always, the gold consolidates and the powerful guilds tighten their grip on the flow of gold.

At least some foresightful players on PC were kind enough to give the general public the tools to engage more effectively in the market on PC and more easily prevent it.

Aspi90

Has a leader the option to see how many one person buys or sells at the guild trader? (currency wise not how many items)

Blevil

jzholloway wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

To me, the solution is simple - a universal auction house (like FFXIV) where the player who wants to sell has to pay for a retainer who has a specific number of selling spots. The retainers can be bought with in game gold or the crown store with a monthly fee (not too large). Up to 4 retainers can be bought and maintained. If ZOS wants guilds to be able to make money, then whoever purchases a retainer can align that retainer with a guild (maybe an incentive to guilds who claim keeps in PVP - only the retainers aligned can sell at those keeps or resources). This would enable anyone to sell anywhere - except Cyrodiil - without having to be in a guild or pay guild fees, etc. It would also ensure that no guild, or guild alliance, could monopolize in game sales.

That is my 2 cents.

Well the problem with the FFXIV retainer was that it used a global market board. Which means that people can sit there and undercut everyone selling the same items. This was the biggest problem with that system considering well, I was one of those undercutters. I would literally own the entire market of a type of armor because I was the one selling at the lowest price always. That's why i liked the trader system in ESO because you could shop around and can't literally undercut the entire server giving other people a chance to sell in different zones.

One easy answer to the this is make the guild traders unavailable till the next week if a guild disbands.

catalyst10e

jzholloway wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

jzholloway wrote: »

catalyst10e wrote: »

Well I'm just going to sit here and watch this thread get closed, as all the rest of them have been closed, as it breaks the forums rules concerning conspiracy theories.

To add my .02¢ Outbid them, or don't shop there and the problem fixes itself.

Umm... Mournhold PS4 NA - its not a theory,

The issues with guild traders:
1. You have to be in a guild that has a stall to be able to sell anything with any viability
2. It is very expensive for guilds - whether they are "honest" or "corrupt" to get a good stall to sell items
3. If you are lucky enough to get in a guild that has a good stall, they can charge you whatever they want to sell... whter it be a 5k one time fee, a 5k a week fee, or, the worse I have seen, a 10k a week fee - I have heard of 20k per week but haven't actually seen it.
4. Guilds that have a lot of gold can potientally buy up everything of one item - i.e. tempering alloys, and then sell them back way higher to control the market - you laugh, it has been attempted.
5. If your guild has a trader in a crappy location, well, tough luck.

To me, the solution is simple - a universal auction house (like FFXIV) where the player who wants to sell has to pay for a retainer who has a specific number of selling spots. The retainers can be bought with in game gold or the crown store with a monthly fee (not too large). Up to 4 retainers can be bought and maintained. If ZOS wants guilds to be able to make money, then whoever purchases a retainer can align that retainer with a guild (maybe an incentive to guilds who claim keeps in PVP - only the retainers aligned can sell at those keeps or resources). This would enable anyone to sell anywhere - except Cyrodiil - without having to be in a guild or pay guild fees, etc. It would also ensure that no guild, or guild alliance, could monopolize in game sales.

That is my 2 cents.

to Quote @ZOS_AlanG, as I've literally seen this message at least 3 times now:

Hi everyone, after reviewing this thread we are going to be keeping it closed. As a general rule, if you feel someone is breaking the rules in-game please submit an in-game report or a support ticket detailing the problem. This allows the issue to be discussed fully, and doesn’t risk infringing on the forum rules concerning Naming and Shaming or Conspiracies.

I'm on PS4 NA, I have no issues finding what I need to in Mournhold, and their pricing is competitive with the other guild traders. If they happen to charge their members to keep their position within the guild, a lot of guilds do that. And if they happen to make enough from those charges to maintain control of multiple guild traders, more power to them. However unless they make enough to even "break even" the price for owning multiple guild traders will eventually outweigh the ROI. It's not sustainable, especially when a location only sells (as you say) 3 items (this is, again not my experience). When it gets to the point where it's 1 guild trader selling items and the rest are not, the problem polices itself when people stop even going to Mournhold to visit 1 guild trader who is overpricing their items.

The issue isn't finding what you need, or even competitive pricing - of course the prices are competitive, with each other that is how capitalism usually works) - the issue is, if you want to be in a guild that has a good spot you a) have to be able to join that guild, and then b) pay whatever they want to charge you - which yes, 5k a week is good, but some could easily charge more.

The issue is not being able to find something - or even, in a lot of cases, the cost of an item (since a lot of people look to see what other people are selling items for and either sell for the same price or slightly undercut them), the problem is accessibility to all to sell items. The other problem is that it is entirely possible for a group of guild to ge together and control what sells for what - either to the benefit or detriment of those buying. An no, telling people not to pay such and such for an item does not work, because someone will always buy an item for whatever because they can.

A universal trader - that still costs in game gold to have selling rights (or shoot me, bought in a crown store) would not ruin the economy in game - it is essentially what we have now, just controlled by guilds and set by location. If I wanted to sell 200 tempering alloys for 100 gold a pop, I could (not going to happen) or vice versa, 10k a pop, I could - someone will always undercut me, and someone will always sell higher (especially if they see them go for 10k), regardless of whether or not it is guild controlled or not.

5k a week is pretty normal now-a-days, and is extremely easy to come by, even if it's 20k a week, that's like a week of doing bruma daily quests. Most of those guilds dont even charge a weekly or monthly fee, they require you sell an amount of product, and encourage donations and hold raffles to earn more money. If all their active members are doing that they all have a lot of gold to do whatever they want with. To your first points, who's stopping you from joining? I have yet to hear about any of them discouraging members from joining. If it's the gold per week you cant afford, that's on you, not them, get some gold saved up then go to them. Again, it's as easy as going to bruma and doing those daily quests to get the capital. (Even if you are only in the guild for a month).

You don't need a PRIME spot to sell your goods, you only need one to sell them faster. I have just as much success with traders in "unpopular" areas, however it can take a couple days for them to go through. Heck, you can even go to the prime spots, view the pricing of a particular item, and stand around in area chat selling hte item(s) for cheaper. (right in front of the supposed monopoly guild). I can't even go to stormhaven anymore without getting 3 trade requests from people who dont want to use a mic to sell items. There's also plenty of players like myself who will actively search all over for good deals. SO if your issue isn't availability of items, or competitive pricing, your argument is what? Jealousy they're doing better than you because they've put in the work and got the gold together? That your newer guild with active players can't get a merchant simply because these other guys have enough gold to buy the whole market? This leads us back to my original point, it'll police it self, as that becomes too large of a sinkhole to sustain the guild.

You dont even need to use these guild traders to make money, the game allows you to join 5 guilds, you could join a PVP guild, a PVE guild, and still have 3 slots left for trade guilds. I can make great money selling to fellow guildmates who I know could use the item/material that also benefits the guild. With this method you can even do straight trades for other items. The guild traders are not the epitome to making money in the game. Which is why it is perfect advise to say if you dont like them, don't buy from them. This is not like the vampire bite scenarios, where people were selling bites and physically stopping people from getting bites so they were the only game in town (forcing ZoS to sell the bites in the crown store). We don't need them to get involved, especially if their solution is crown store based. There's plenty to be done with the system to make it better but a huge auction house, or crownstore items are not the answers.

KaleidoscopeEyz

NO auction houses! Nuff......jeez.

Zerok

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

They need to make kiosks non-tradable. Once you win the bid it is locked for the week. Shouldn't matter if a guild disbands or not.

ZOS doesn't want a universal auction house. It is supposedly even worse for the economy than what we have. And to be fair I can see how that can be abused in a spectacular way.

Any unregulated market can be abused in a spectular way.

ZOS needs to implement antitrust laws within its economic system, global auction house or not.

Sureshawt

I would love to see an universal auction house like GW2 which is hands down the best solution for the majority of players and has proven itself over time.

Excess gold is flushed out through the currency/gold exchange. It eliminates gold/item sellers as well as controls inflation.

Since the the AH is universal it makes it difficult for powerful guilds to manipulate/monopolize prices on the market.

Players have a single interface in which to shop the market efficiently and not waste valuable playtime visiting multiple vendors.

However, I don't think we will ever get anything like this and will have to just accept this second rate inefficient trade system. Most trade guild leaders love the system because they can manipulate it to their advantage and they enjoy doing it.

Kozer

I realize I have already said it before...But I hate the current system. Prices are crazy depending on the zone and it makes trying to find a piece that you need an effort.

Go to a starter zone and you will see blue quality items going for 2k plus. Go to a capital city and you can find purple items that sell for less than 1000.

It hurts new players and guilds.

Of all the things in the game. I despise the trader system.

MornaBaine

I understand ZoS's desire to "do something different" from the usual auction house. How I wish they'd spent their creative energies elsewhere in the game. I really hate the current system. I don't think anyone outside of some successful trade guilds actually like it. It's awful. Please ZoS, admit it and change it.