Jerk or Incompetent

Humatiel

Given all the heat recently over PvE (endgame raiding/groupdamage/player tutorials for roles/MA etc) this is a small poll to see who you would rather raid/PuG with. Would it be someone that is new to the environment or someone that is competent (isn't being carried relatively speaking) but doesn't curb punches when making remarks about playstyle/mistakes. Yes there is a middle ground, no the middle ground isn't an option here.

Poll is anonymous so people can discuss without fear of witch hunting.

Abeille

New player, always.

New players can learn. They won't be new forever.

Being a jerk is a a personality trait. They will always be jerks.

Turelus

Players who have the time to learn or listen are fine, they'll get better and I have patience if they fail a few times.

Players who tell me to shut up when I offer friendly advice (and it's friendly not condescending) I have no time for, especially when the issues faced are directly their doing.

Shunravi

I would rather pug someone new.

I would rather do a 'run' (fast to get it done) with someone experienced.

HaldaAinur

Anyone who is reasonably patient, willing to learn & willing to teach what they can.

yodased

I can't answer this because it's both.

If I am in a normal mood and feeling typical, then I don't mind teaching/dying/laughing.

If I am laser focused on getting something, you best get out of my way if you are holding me down.

mattymaats

failkiwib16_ESO

Depends on my intention really.

If I just want a regular plegde and I have the time, then I prefer to pay with inexperienced new guildies, to get to know them better + get them through the dungeon.

If I want to farm a dungeon, or don't have much time I only go with trusted players, whom I know can contribute to the team. I have had to reject guildies and friends at this point, due to these reasons:

• spending 20 minutes at the first boss, having multiple wipes - because that one group member".
• Going AFK before the first bossfight, because his/her/its mom wanted him/her/it to eat lunch.
• Complaining about why we don't help with the daily pledge, after 1 run in the dungeon we were "farming".
• Wasting time on gimmics, making emotes etc. for 5-10min before they put on their armor, to actually contribute.
• Run around and look through every container possible, then afterwards run around and look for glitches in the walls and edges of the dungeon rooms.
• Asking for a run through a different dungeon, as soon as they teleported into the dungeon.
• Use an invisibility potion, just to get past the first mobs ...go aggro the boss and additional mobs, just to wipe the team over and over.

kylewwefan

Do t get me wrong, I choose competent players mainly because I'm usually the weakest link and depend on them to carry me through a dungeon. I've beat my head against the wall plenty of times when noone(including myself) knew how to beat the dungeon. I'm playing to clear it and am plenty happy with a silver key.

Robbmrp

It will truly be a wondrous day when people learn that being jerks isn't worth it in the long run. They will only alienate themselves from others who won't want to deal with them. Life's too short to deal with d**che bags on a daily basis.....

We come to the game for a reprieve from the outside world and all of the jerks there. Just because people have anonymity behind a faceless internet, it's a lot easier for them to be continuous jerks to everyone.

Sunburnt_Penguin

It's not really as clean cut as that.

If I've got ample time then I'll gladly help inexperienced and/or low-levelled people out by either being patient while completing content, joining them on their content or just messaging giving them advice.

However, if my playing time is limited on a day and I want to maximise my time in-game by only wanting to do content with experienced or adequately-levelled people: then I don't see how that either makes me a jerk or gives the impression off that I think inexperienced and/or low-levelled people are incompetent.

lolo_01b16_ESO

I vote for the second option. In my opinion talking direct and honestly is more important than how much experience someone has.
When I join a group via group finder or zone chat, I don't mind if there are new players (unless they searched for someone to do icp nodeath and then tell me they never killed the second boss) and am happy, when they are friendly. But I'll still talk about mistakes direktly. When someone dies 10 times to the same boss mechanic, it doesn't help when you tell them "oh, well, you seem to be unlucky today, lets try again". I prefer telling them "Hey, if the boss does this, you should do that. I know, it can be tricky when you do it the first time, but don't worry, you'll become better every time you run this dungeon".

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

Being new to a dungeon is okay, wasting my time with being stupid is not.

Derra

Gonna go with the jerk. When i´m grping in pve in 90% of the cases it´s forced content i have to complete to get mandatory gear/skills. I´m not going to enjoy it anyway so i want it to be over fast.

GreenSoup2HoT

Where is the fun in stomping content with ease. I wanna work to earn somthing, not blow by it and complain when i dont get the drops.

Also its more fun to teach and be taught.

bikerangelo

It's better to invest your time in teaching someone who's willing to learn rather than dealing with a know-it-all who blames everyone else when things go wrong.

It's also easier to stomach insults from a jerk for 20 minutes than deal with a million questions from someone new for 2 hours.

On the other hand, it's more beneficial in the long run to teach the new person how to run the dungeon properly so that less teaching will be required in the future.

But on the other hand, it takes less time to keep quiet and run in a pug group with a general patton analyzing your every move, especially if they're an uptight healer.

Which one is easier?

Flaminir

Not including the middle ground in the poll really does make it a VERY inaccurate poll tbh.

I love helping others... nothing better than helping guildies to improve and conquer stuff they couldn't do previously!

But sometimes when PUG'ing you just don't have 1-2hrs to struggle through a gold key with a group of inexperienced players who won't accept help and keep making the same errors over & over.....

Most of the time if you point something out politely then people listen EG: "We've wiped 5 times on this netch boss in Darkshade because you're all single targeting the mass of mobs, not using any AoE... and keep hitting the boss while in the air and you're all dead on the floor from your own reflected spells!!!"

Most of the time people take that on board and change (Put in a diplomatic way of course)... sometimes people just keep repeating the same over & over.... that's the only time I'll ever leave a group.

RDMyers65b14_ESO

Attitude over aptitude. If you are going to be a jerk, then go somewhere else. I rather have a new player over a jerk any day.

LadyNalcarya

Your poll is biased.
You assume that all new players are "friendly but hopeless" and all speedrunners are "good but unfriendly and no fun allowed"... This seems to be a common stepeotype, but in reality there's much more options. Yes, there are some "elitist jerks", but most of competitive players (really competitive, not just random Deltia wannabes) are adequate. Though a casual player will probably never meet said "elitist jerks", because they mostly play with their guidies anyway.
I play eso for more than a year, and from my experience the most of toxic attitudes comes from bad players. For example, my worst healing experience in this game was with a group that couldnt beat a gargoyle in Spindleclutch. We kept dying from cave collapse (you know, in 1.5 dpsing and healing at the same time wasnt a trend), and I was called names for not being able to outheal this collapse. Nowadays I usually dps or tank and when I see drama in a pug, it usually comes from a bad dd that couldnt stop standing in red.
Speaking of newbies, I usually friendly to them and often give them advices/free gear/ww bites. I dont mind joining casual runs and raids if I have time as well. Not all new players are inherently bad and unable to learn, and in my opinion assuming that they are is rather degrading. I saw some fresh vr players that were better than some of the guys with old beta test and loyalty pets.That being said, I cant stand the attitude of some casual players that treat their teammates as npcs and expect them to just carry their butt through the dungeon. And they usually see any advices as personal offense which makes any teamwork impossible. Maybe its just me, but I'm having fun with my competitive dsa team and most of my "no fun allowed" experiences were related to bad players (usually dds who couldnt pull their weight and blamed healers and tanks).

Tl;dr : Not all newbies are friendly and nice. Not all competitive players are jerks that hate fun.

eliisra

This poll is really hard to answer.

I kinda dislike having to spend bunch of time typing out every boss encounter to a total stranger(that 9/10 times wont bother even joining TS). I'll do it alright but I still suffer silently lol. It's a bit uncool to force that on people. I would never ever do it myself, just demand that some stranger becomes my private tutor for an hour. I want to be asked first if it's ok and if I have spare time doing all the explaining.

But grouping with a total d-bag is actually worse. My experience with jerks is that they ruin more that just the dungeon, like my mood and even confidence if I'm "the new one". They also have a tendency to wreck the entire group, make people leave with their flaming and than they leave themselves. I'm stuck, together with whoever hero is left, to pick up the pieces and trying to find replacements mid-dungeon. Jerks are the absolute worse.

Mr_Nobody

Id rather play with good jerks, in PvE.

I have had too much of a bad personal experience while doing vet pledges with relatively new players, lets say, V14-16. Majority of them were below terrible. How can one reach to V14-V16 and be completely C L U E S S on what is going on? This is PvE, gd. PvE = time, which I personally don't like = waste of time. Id rather run with complete D's who trashtalk and/or do whatever but complete the pledge in 10 minutes. Think I and Yiko once did some pledge where 2 of the guys (/zone chat) who proclaimed themselves good DPS'es and/or tanks, after an already long run till the last boss - died instantly, I was like "yo yiko, F them, lets duo this boss, we wont make it as 4"... So we just DUO'd it these 2 "very good V16 DPS & tank" lying on the ground dead.

PvP is another story, personally I have only one friend I play with and whoever he brings with + Gokus, Songokus and Gohans! Otherwise im a lonely non-meta built magicka Templar in the field trolling the zone chat, which in most eyes makes me a D.

Volkodav

I prefer to run with a new player.
Noobies try harder and watch what you are doing so they can get the hang of it all,unless they are afraid. If I see that,I'll go in front of them until they get their courage up and dig into the fight. I cant stand jerks of any kind.Not ingame,and not in the forums. XD

eliisra wrote: »

This poll is really hard to answer.

I kinda dislike having to spend bunch of time typing out every boss encounter to a total stranger(that 9/10 times wont bother even joining TS). I'll do it alright but I still suffer silently lol. It's a bit uncool to force that on people. I would never ever do it myself, just demand that some stranger becomes my private tutor for an hour. I want to be asked first if it's ok and if I have spare time doing all the explaining.

But grouping with a total d-bag is actually worse. My experience with jerks is that they ruin more that just the dungeon, like my mood and even confidence if I'm "the new one". They also have a tendency to wreck the entire group, make people leave with their flaming and than they leave themselves. I'm stuck, together with whoever hero is left, to pick up the pieces and trying to find replacements mid-dungeon. Jerks are the absolute worse.

I have played with many noobies and not one has asked me to type anything for them to understand.Nor have they demanded me to be their tutor yet.Maybe I have been lucky in that.
:}

SahrotRein

When I aim to finish content (Cadwell's Gold for instance), I just rush to the World Bosses, Public and Solo dungeons. I don't make any friends on the way, I don't group up with people that want to. If anybody asks for a help with a dolmen that I've already done I don't go and help him, I do my thing when my goal is clear and refuse socializing (a weird thing in MMO, right?).

But when I feel like not doing anything, I am down for helping people in zone chat by providing them any info they need, giving out gold, having fun in started areas, crafting gear to strangers, groupping up with non-vet guys to help them do whatever content that is too hard for 'em.

But since nobody is 100% one or another and that there's always simply something more to each one of us, nobody can be total jerk or total mr. perfect so I too call this poll slightly biased or lacking third option.

That being said, when I'm on my routine, I cannot care any less for other people, I mean while doing daily crafting writs, dungeon pledges or (back in the day) Cadwell's Silver/Gold, but when I'm off my daily "schedule", I am more than eager to help.

Ugh, things are not always black or white.

Danksta

As someone new, I'd prefer someone who can teach me something, even if they happen to be a jerk. But as I get better I'd prefer to share that knowledge.

vamp_emily

Dislikes
-Jerks
-Cheaters

I think I am becoming a pretty good fighter and always give 100% when doing group stuff. It does get frustrating at times, and I don't like when a member of a group tries to belittle other group members. It makes my me want to curse and scream at the jerk.

That is one reason I got more involved in leading groups in PvP. I get tired of seeing in zone chat a group leader calling their members stupid, and yelling at them.

Ourorboros

Humatiel wrote: »

Given all the heat recently over PvE (endgame raiding/groupdamage/player tutorials for roles/MA etc) this is a small poll to see who you would rather raid/PuG with. Would it be someone that is new to the environment or someone that is competent (isn't being carried relatively speaking) but doesn't curb punches when making remarks about playstyle/mistakes. Yes there is a middle ground, no the middle ground isn't an option here.

Poll is anonymous so people can discuss without fear of witch hunting.

Is the OP a Jerk or Incompetent for posting such a black and white poll on a topic with many shades of grey?

I understand OP point, but using terms like Jerk or Incompetent suggests a need for sensitivity training. I won't be surprised to see this thread locked. Point could have been made without using inflammatory labels.

Danksta

Ourorboros wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Given all the heat recently over PvE (endgame raiding/groupdamage/player tutorials for roles/MA etc) this is a small poll to see who you would rather raid/PuG with. Would it be someone that is new to the environment or someone that is competent (isn't being carried relatively speaking) but doesn't curb punches when making remarks about playstyle/mistakes. Yes there is a middle ground, no the middle ground isn't an option here.

Poll is anonymous so people can discuss without fear of witch hunting.

Is the OP a Jerk or Incompetent for posting such a black and white poll on a topic with many shades of grey?

He mentions that there "is a middle ground". He's just asking which of the extremes you'd prefer to deal with.

Cathexis

Elitist ass holes demand and create content for elitist ass holes.

Support the new player, support a better eso community, and be a descent human.

*drops the mic*

Danikat

I'd much rather group with someone who is new and doesn't know what they're doing.

In the vast majority of cases you can teach them (especially if you're willing to take the time to explain why they need to do/not do certain things instead of simply ordering them around) and in other cases you can at least work around their mistakes.

Whereas someone who is just being a jerk to everyone else is highly unlikely to listen to any disagreement no matter how it's worded and is perfectly capable of making every single aspect of a run so thoroughly unpleasant I regret even deciding to do group content, even if it succeeds.

If the best thing I can say about group content is that it was over quickly then I'd much rather do something I actually enjoy even if it takes me longer.

LadyNalcarya

Cathexis wrote: »

Elitist ass holes demand and create content for elitist ass holes.

Support the new player, support a better eso community, and be a descent human.

*drops the mic*

Casual a**holes are even worse, at least elitist ones dont make you stuck in a dungeon forever.
Its not like casual = friendly angel.

Lysette

Well, with giving advice it is such a thing, because it should stay "advice" and not be a "command". No one is forced to accept advice as is, keep this in mind. They might still be grateful for your help, even if they do not follow through with it like you might have expected it. This could be, because your advice is valuable, but is not matching their play style.

Take me as an example, I know now from the forum, that a hybrid build will never provide that high a dps output like a min/max build. But knowing this, does not mean, I would stay away from a hybrid build, I know now, it will not be optimal seen from dps or competitiveness, but I go for the fun to be different. This does not mean I would not appreciate the adivce, because it helps me to understand and accept why I will never become a top player - but I am rather going for the fun. And to me fun is not to be like everyone else and find my individual path with my own methods - they might be crap in the eyes of elite players, but it is my crap and I have fun playing like this. As long as you keep this in mind, advice is welcome nevertheless.