The Game is Currently Pay to Win

Marrtha · February 2016

After trying to argue that this game isn't pay to win.. I came to conclusion that is kind of is. You don't literally WIN, but do you get certain advantages and quality of life things? You certainly do. Nothing bad about it though. Of course those who decide to support the game will get rewarded. Doesn't it make sense?

Take SWTOR for example, you can play it all you want for free.. But if you pay, you get certain quality of life things that are really cool and make it less tedious. Do those players WIN? Doubt it. I had a friend who was clearing the content at my pace, and never did he feel 'discriminted' or as if I was paying to win (I paid sub, he didn't). We still had the same game in front of us.

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Please debate my well reasoned argumentation if you think that I am mistaken. Ad hominems will not suffice in showing that I am mistaken (which I am not).

Julianos, hundings and other sets are open to all. Nothing stopping you from having someone craft it for you. You don't need the dlc to own the crafted stuff. (Unless no friends ) but my NB manages to gank whoever it pleases just running hundings and nightmother. Perhaps reevaluate why you're loosing..do you go running into zergs solo hoping that meteor will mash them all...dude that's just silly.

Johngo0036 · February 2016

I actually agree with what @Personofsecrets is getting at..

If i own only the base game, there is NO WAY for me to get VR16 weapon and armour drops that those with the DLC have access to..

Actually i cannot even get the armoursets of the base game in vr16.....

In order to get VR16 armour i would have to PAY someone to make them for me,
Or
Buy materials to make my own.......

The dropped weapons and armour will never, ever be an option for me....

Kinda sucks..

Speely · February 2016

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I actually agree with what @Personofsecrets is getting at..

If i own only the base game, there is NO WAY for me to get VR16 weapon and armour drops that those with the DLC have access to..

Actually i cannot even get the armoursets of the base game in vr16.....

In order to get VR16 armour i would have to PAY someone to make them for me,
Or
Buy materials to make my own.......

The dropped weapons and armour will never, ever be an option for me....

Kinda sucks..

If you have only bought a portion of the game, why should you have access to all the content?

anitajoneb17_ESO · February 2016

Johngo0036 wrote: »

I actually agree with what @Personofsecrets is getting at..

If i own only the base game, there is NO WAY for me to get VR16 weapon and armour drops that those with the DLC have access to..

Actually i cannot even get the armoursets of the base game in vr16.....

In order to get VR16 armour i would have to PAY someone to make them for me,
Or
Buy materials to make my own.......

The dropped weapons and armour will never, ever be an option for me....

Kinda sucks..

That is TOTALLY WRONG. You can get VR16 crafted sets from other players. You can get ALL base-game dropped armor sets at VR16 from base-game dungeon bosses. In case you can't (if sets stop scaling at VR14) then people who own the DLC cannot either.
The ONLY pieces you can't get without DLC are Kena and lord warden heads (but you'll be able to buy them soon), maelstroem weapons and some whrothgar sets such as Briarheart. None of these pieces are necessary to "win".
Now if you call P2W "having to pay someone ingame with ingame gold"... that's really stretching it too far.

Derra · February 2016

What i´ve learned:

pay to play = pay to win

If you can´t play you can´t win right

Vaoh · February 2016

@Personofsecrets I have been reading through a ton of comments here, and I'm not understanding the point of this thread atm. Is it to argue with as many players as possible? That is what it seems like so far.

You are saying that ESO is becoming pay-to-win, based on the fact that the DLC content contains new gear in which a small portion of it isn't utterly horrible. This gear being unreachable to like 95%+ of the playerbase (Maelstrom Weapons, IC Dungeons sets due to difficulty/INSANE GRIND/bad traits). Other strong gear includes Julianos, and to a much lesser extent, Morkuldin. Both can be easily crafted for you by another player, a service I have freely provided for a ton of people.

You're literally using the most stretched definition of pay to win as possible. I typed "Pay to win define" into Google and this came up:

"Pay to win is when a game company sells stuff that gives an in game advantage through micro transactions. So, it'd be like if Blizzard started selling gear in the blizzard store. Pay to win is generally in Free to Play games. Jul 4, 2012"

So what I take from it, is if ZOS began selling Gold/Divines/V16 Monster Sets and impossibly-long grinded gear on the Crown Store. Even Gold. NOT brand new zones with real new content.

Should the new DLC that ZOS provides contain nothing worthwile? I would be pretty angry if the new sets were just a new batch of Ice Furnaces....

That's a long post up there ^
TLDR: Are mounts Pay-To-Win as well, since you don't have to spend gold to buy them?

Nerouyn · February 2016

Personofsecrets wrote: »

1. People buy DLC for actual money
2. DLC contains gear that is superior compared to gear released in the base game
3. Only people who have bought the DLC can earn some of this superior DLC gear because of it's BOP status.
4. Therefore this game is pay to win because of the above points

You clearly have no understanding of what pay to win means.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pay-to-win

Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying.
Dude, you've spent like 400 bucks on this game so you can beat everyone who hasn't spent any money. Pay-to-win noob!

ESO's cash shop has cosmetics, xp boosters, crafting mats and styles (time savers) and expansions. Expansions are the unworthy target of your ire. The max level is raised by them but the cost is flat and relatively low compared to what some people pay in so called "free" to play games. Also non-existent for subscribers.

No-one can pour hundreds of dollars into ESO to gain an unfair advantage. ZO are a business. Making, maintaining and further developing the game costs money. It's reasonable, and the norm, for them to release paid expansion packs which increase the level cap. Though they have already said they're doing away with vet levels so....

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Can anyone in the thread explain why they get upset about things being "pay to win" despite many things in the world, such as other MMOs, being pay to win. I would like to get your perspective on that idea.

It's defamatory.

Pay-to-win means something quite negative and it absolutely does not apply to ESO. I have and will continue to express fair criticisms about the game and its developers but this is pure nonsense. If you're not just trolling please do take a look at what pay to win really means and how the term properly applies in MMOs.

Videira · February 2016

Sure, in a way it is. However, ESO was never free 2 play. It seems that pay 2 win is predicated on the game being free 2 play.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

Its P4L: Pay 4 Looks.

Also... What youre describing is how expansions have always worked. Even in sub games. You buy an expansion - you get access to new content with new rewards and an increased level cap.

JapanesePlayer · February 2016

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

I don't get that above. Who keeps 39 styles in thier bank? 10s of thousands of mats to craft. Impossible.

Sharee · February 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I don't get that above. Who keeps 39 styles in thier bank? 10s of thousands of mats to craft. Impossible.

Right. Why should i keep bank slots permanently blocked by stuff i can buy from an NPC merchant for 15 gold. All i have in bank is a single stack of one style mat for crafting writs, that's it.

Oliumzen · February 2016

Uh, You buy the game to play it. You can't create the best gear in game if you don't pay for the game in the first place. Yup P2W....................................

Drakilian · February 2016

If bind on pickup wasn't a thing (it really really shouldn't be, nor should bind on equip for that matter) then no, it wouldn't be pay to win.

As-is, yeah, it's pay to win. Still, way better than basically every other MMO currently out there in this regard, especially since base game stuff isn't much worse than DLC stuff.

DRXHarbinger · February 2016

Plus op you're probably bitter over the Kena set I assume. You can buy it in either a few weeks or a few years depending on the rotation. ZOS will either put it out first to shut you all up or make you wait till the end for it. Hopefully we'll fitted comes out first. Pauper spec players need pauper equipment.

Thevampirenight · February 2016

Something tells me this is a troll, thread on the other hand if you played sto and other games made by perfect world then you would see elder scrolls online is not. In fact I wished they made the thieves guild so it has abilities we could use!
This is no where close to pay to win because you do not have to pay to win. Most of the dlc item sets are available without the dlc and there is so much item sets that can help you win for sure so if you think this games pay to win then it is obviously not.

Molag_Crow · February 2016

Hmmmmmm....

dday3six · February 2016

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I don't get that above. Who keeps 39 styles in thier bank? 10s of thousands of mats to craft. Impossible.

It's just people who don't realize ESO has enough legitimate flaws to criticize. Notice most of the styles aren't even released, and aren't going to be with TG either. Moreover there's no need to horde any of the motif items which can be purchased for 15 gold a piece.

phillyboy7897 · February 2016

Troll thread.

U got blow up 2nd or 3rd reply and blew past it.

U changed the definition to suit your needs to troll.

Your definition means any game that costs money is pay 2 win.

1. You have to pay for the game to play
2. You have play the game to win at it.
3. This means it is pay to win.

Players buy the game to play it and win because they can play.

Omg what an unfair advantage the people that didn't pay cant actually win.

Please show me how any of these points don't fit into your altered definition.

And you're right with this altered definition pay 2 win isn't a bad thing just means a game costs money.

You either actually don't understand what pay 2 win means or this is a troll post.

ZOS_MollyH · February 2016

As there is already a very active thread with a similar theme, we're going to close this thread as it has gone off topic and many comments had to be removed for trolling, disruption, and personal attacks. If you wish to continue discussing please head on over there, keeping the forum code of conduct in mind before you post.