Heavy Armor, how is it made viable?

Chrlynsch

Heavy armor needs a buff, and @ZOS is kicking around ideas, but we are looking to patch 10 until anything comes their way. Most people that play heavy armor want to help teammates Taking damage while providing CC for DPS and healers.

Suggestions,


- Slightly lower the amount of resources given through constitution (maybe), then remove the cooldown. Heavy will be good in the thick of battle and will be able to sustain to stamina and magicka in harms way, helping them stand their ground.

- Give 5 peice heavy armor Increased ultimate generation when struck, the old werewolf passive should work nicely and code is already in the game. 5 Ultimate when struck with a 3 second cooldown. Heavy armor grants the ability to use ultimates more often, but with lower damage then dps builds increasing utility to heavy armor users.

Now help me out, post your ideas for heavy armor and help ZOS fix heavy armor in Dark Brotherhood. Please keep your posts constructive and on topic.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel

Teflondon75

Update 10...what are we looking at here? 4-5 months? Why are things like this taking so long? I've been MMO'ing since mid 90's....mid 90's man! I've seen very few MMO's that take this long to fix things like this. Considering it's an issue that has been widely known for many months already. I admit, I don't get it.

PS: My post is largely irrelevant to the OP's discussion. Sorry, Saturday is my drinking day and I'm hungry, so yeah.

sneakymitchell

Teflondon75 wrote: »

Update 10...what are we looking at here? 4-5 months? Why are things like this taking so long? I've been MMO'ing since mid 90's....mid 90's man! I've seen very few MMO's that take this long to fix things like this. Considering it's an issue that has been widely known for many months already. I admit, I don't get it.

PS: My post is largely irrelevant to the OP's discussion. Sorry, Saturday is my drinking day and I'm hungry, so yeah.

Yep and once they see our ideas they look at it and just put it up on the dart board for each idea given and their own but mostly their own ideas. Like if LeftyLucy wants to talk about the heavy armor passive he would rather have the old passive way back then.

Just like AoE caps. Oh just remove it. NO!!!!!!
It would bring unbalance even though it is hard to kill a very weak class that has huge DPS.
Like what this game become just hit each other so hard enough that you kill the person in one blow and when they don't die they run for help and you get screwed with AoE caps if you use AoE on the enemies. Sure yeah you need to be careful around big groups of people but why we have to deal with that now a days I rather be splitting up. Which will happen soon I hope.

HoloYoitsu

I don't see the issue. Wrobel already stated that if you look at Heavy Armor "without considering the passives" it's "the best armor." What more could we ask for?

JubJub

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I don't see the issue. Wrobel already stated that if you look at Heavy Armor "without considering the passives" it's "the best armor." What more could we ask for?

Did he really say that ...

HoloYoitsu

rossvoss wrote: »

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

I don't see the issue. Wrobel already stated that if you look at Heavy Armor "without considering the passives" it's "the best armor." What more could we ask for?

Did he really say that ...

That's what he lead his reply on Heavy Armor with when he was answering the question. He then went on to say that there wouldn't be any changes until Update 10 because they "didn't want to put so many changes in Thieves Guild."

AverageJo3Gam3r

Ultimate gain would be OP for DKs (saying this as a DK). Buff constitution or give stam regen when blocking for wearing 5 pieces.

Chrlynsch

AverageJo3Gam3r wrote: »

Ultimate gain would be OP for DKs (saying this as a DK). Buff constitution or give stam regen when blocking for wearing 5 pieces.

We generate ultimate at a rate on average 3 ultimate per second after major heroism. Having that extra 5 ultimate every three seconds when being hit really isn't that OP, your looking at about 50% increase in ultimate generation roughly being able to use a ultimate 3 times for every dps/healer's 2. Dk's synergize with heavy armor is just natural so I see no issue here.

Though if your concerned with ultimate generating too quickly for dk's you may want to take a look at tava's favor craftable set arriving with thieve's guild, this set basically increases standard ultimate generation by 100%.

Edit: for punctuation and such

Personofsecrets

stam regen while blocking

pecheckler

A heavy armor passive that re-enables stamina regen while blocking would be a good start at making heavy armor viable again.

Artjuh90

removing the mitigration cap would be a good start

Forestd16b14_ESO

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225175/heavy-armor-needs-buffed-already#latest

Can thread like stop popping up my ctrl+C buttons are getting worn out.

D0ntevenL1ft

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225175/heavy-armor-needs-buffed-already#latest

Can thread like stop popping up my ctrl+C buttons are getting worn out.

The more the merrier!

AFrostWolf

Lets quickly compare what 1 of each armor set provides you in terms of passive bonus:
LA: 3% magicka cost reduction, 4% magicka recovery, 363 Spell Resist.
MA: 328 crit, 4% stam recovery, 3% cost reduction, 3% increase in move speed, 4% reduction in dodge roll.
HA: 362 Armor, 4% health recovery, 49 Stam and Magicka Return when hit every four seconds, 1% extra health, 1% increased healing.

Heavy armor sucks.

Resolve: Currently, this passive blows. It offers far too little to HA to be of any real use. What I suggest is to, in addition to the armor buff, add 2/3/4% block cost reduction for each piece of heavy armor. This is a small buff to the bracing passive that will essentially be incorporated into resolve allowing us to give bracing the love it sorely desires.

Constitution: The passive is on the right track, but is completely underwhelming and ultimately makes tanking far less fun than it should be. IMO this should be the single most attractive passive in HA. Increase the base value to 100 per HA piece and change the return from a 4 second cooldown proc to a 25% chance to proc (ICD of 1 second). This provides the tank with much needed resources when he needs them most - i.e. getting swarmed. Tanks have the skills to deal with swarms of mobs/players but don't have the passives to do it EFFICIENTLY. This helps to alleviate that issue. Increase Health Recovery modifier to 8% per piece. The tank will be less effective against solo bosses or against solo players, but more effective against the masses helping tanks to fall into their PVP role as desired by the devs intent.

Juggernaut: Another passive that's borderline useless and certainly doesn't live up to it's name. Double HP value and provide a flat damage reduction bonus of .5/1% per piece of HA equipped. This also assists in giving the HA user some means of passively dealing with penetration. The Heavy Armor user isn't using roll dodge or magicka for absorbing damage, they are using their armor - its needs to have the capability to absorb damage so it may efficiently use it's resources.
Bracing This passive needs to be completely reworked into something devastatingly tanky allowing the tank to properly fight back and/or re-engage an opponent. I propose that this passive adds additional time to break free immunity by 1/2 seconds (ala Alessian set), reduces all incoming damage by 10/20% for 5 seconds (ala Reactive) and provides Minor/Major brutality for 5 seconds WHEN BREAKING FREE (edit). What does this give a HA user? It gives them a meaningful and viable method of being on the offensive with what little resources he/she may have while also providing the damage reduction to absorb future instagib damage and continue fighting on.

Rapid Mending: Our final passive, and arguably the worst passive in the game. This passive *** blows big time. I propose that this passive works much akin to how the Pariah set bonus works but with HEALTH RECOVERY. Increase healthy recovery as your health decreases by 50/100% when wearing 5 heavy.


Stolen from /u/ChiefBigBlockPontiac on reddit. Very valid points though.

Cody

bring back the passive that increases melee damage for one. the passive that decreases CC break cost should come back as well.

corrosivechains

AFrostWolf wrote: »

Lets quickly compare what 1 of each armor set provides you in terms of passive bonus:
LA: 3% magicka cost reduction, 4% magicka recovery, 363 Spell Resist.
MA: 328 crit, 4% stam recovery, 3% cost reduction, 3% increase in move speed, 4% reduction in dodge roll.
HA: 362 Armor, 4% health recovery, 49 Stam and Magicka Return when hit every four seconds, 1% extra health, 1% increased healing.

Heavy armor sucks.

Resolve: Currently, this passive blows. It offers far too little to HA to be of any real use. What I suggest is to, in addition to the armor buff, add 2/3/4% block cost reduction for each piece of heavy armor. This is a small buff to the bracing passive that will essentially be incorporated into resolve allowing us to give bracing the love it sorely desires.

Constitution: The passive is on the right track, but is completely underwhelming and ultimately makes tanking far less fun than it should be. IMO this should be the single most attractive passive in HA. Increase the base value to 100 per HA piece and change the return from a 4 second cooldown proc to a 25% chance to proc (ICD of 1 second). This provides the tank with much needed resources when he needs them most - i.e. getting swarmed. Tanks have the skills to deal with swarms of mobs/players but don't have the passives to do it EFFICIENTLY. This helps to alleviate that issue. Increase Health Recovery modifier to 8% per piece. The tank will be less effective against solo bosses or against solo players, but more effective against the masses helping tanks to fall into their PVP role as desired by the devs intent.

Juggernaut: Another passive that's borderline useless and certainly doesn't live up to it's name. Double HP value and provide a flat damage reduction bonus of .5/1% per piece of HA equipped. This also assists in giving the HA user some means of passively dealing with penetration. The Heavy Armor user isn't using roll dodge or magicka for absorbing damage, they are using their armor - its needs to have the capability to absorb damage so it may efficiently use it's resources.
Bracing This passive needs to be completely reworked into something devastatingly tanky allowing the tank to properly fight back and/or re-engage an opponent. I propose that this passive adds additional time to break free immunity by 1/2 seconds (ala Alessian set), reduces all incoming damage by 10/20% for 5 seconds (ala Reactive) and provides Minor/Major brutality for 5 seconds WHEN BREAKING FREE (edit). What does this give a HA user? It gives them a meaningful and viable method of being on the offensive with what little resources he/she may have while also providing the damage reduction to absorb future instagib damage and continue fighting on.

Rapid Mending: Our final passive, and arguably the worst passive in the game. This passive *** blows big time. I propose that this passive works much akin to how the Pariah set bonus works but with HEALTH RECOVERY. Increase healthy recovery as your health decreases by 50/100% when wearing 5 heavy.


Stolen from /u/ChiefBigBlockPontiac on reddit. Very valid points though.

this, this is what HA needs, then from there tweak where necessary

Spottswoode

Heavy armor should emphasize blocking, imho. That's not to say that it should only be used for tanking, though.

Mettaricana

I feel heavy armor needs a tiny weapon and spell dmg buff for 5 pc give em a 3/5% increase

And make deafult no stam while blocking but add a small stam regen passive.

Add a low 10% chance when using 5pc to trigger a stagger recoil like when a skill us blocked like say enemy swung hard and hit the armor just right and his weapon bounced off

Add a per peice passive that helps increase taunt duration

Just some ideas

Forestd16b14_ESO

Spottswoode wrote: »

Heavy armor should emphasize blocking, imho. That's not to say that it should only be used for tanking, though.

Well how I view it even with out blocking HA should provide the best resistance in the game which it does for the most part but factor in the massive amount of weapon/spell damage players can achieve with crit and penetration too and all that resistance counts for nothing.

EdmundTowers

I would like to see a buff to melee power attacks when wearing heavy armor. More weight to put into the attack = more damage. Plus a buff to the stamina return when landing the power attack as well. Both would help with heavy armor's lack of damage and resources. And since the buff only applies to power attacks, I think it would reward heavy armor players for properly weaving heavy attacks while tanking.

Jade1986

Teflondon75 wrote: »

Update 10...what are we looking at here? 4-5 months? Why are things like this taking so long? I've been MMO'ing since mid 90's....mid 90's man! I've seen very few MMO's that take this long to fix things like this. Considering it's an issue that has been widely known for many months already. I admit, I don't get it.

PS: My post is largely irrelevant to the OP's discussion. Sorry, Saturday is my drinking day and I'm hungry, so yeah.

BW does the same thing, it took them almost FOUR YEARS to even CONSIDER buffing the most useless pvp class in the game. FOUR YEARS!

Alucardo

I kinda like the ultimate regeneration idea actually

Spottswoode

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Heavy armor should emphasize blocking, imho. That's not to say that it should only be used for tanking, though.

Well how I view it even with out blocking HA should provide the best resistance in the game which it does for the most part but factor in the massive amount of weapon/spell damage players can achieve with crit and penetration too and all that resistance counts for nothing.

I agree for the most part. Latent crit resistance is sorely needed by heavy armor, as is more spell resistance and armor. (Sorry, magicka sorcs. It's true.) Light armor should give the most spell resistance and magicka based damage, Medium armor should give best mobility and stamina damage, and heavy should give the most protection and block mitigation.
Spell and armor penetration need to be effective against heavy armor though. Otherwise there's no point in the traits.

I can best summarize what I mean by saying that heavy armor should be able to block as well as a shield. (Yes, you read that right.) In real life, heavy armor was utilized by bracing the thicker, stronger parts of the armor against an incoming attack. In other words, blocking. As heavy armor improved over the centuries, shields became smaller and more specialized to the point where heavy armor users stopped using shields completely. Heavy armor users should be able to block as effectively as a medium armor user with a shield without the shield. (And should be able to block even better with the shield.) The tradeoff they should get for this is reduced mobility. (They already kind of do, with shields having a passive that increases movement speed while blocking.)

EdmundTowers wrote: »

I would like to see a buff to melee power attacks when wearing heavy armor. More weight to put into the attack = more damage. Plus a buff to the stamina return when landing the power attack as well. Both would help with heavy armor's lack of damage and resources. And since the buff only applies to power attacks, I think it would reward heavy armor players for properly weaving heavy attacks while tanking.

If I'm not mistaken, we did have a passive that did exactly that at one point in time. I'm actually ok with it, but medium armor should be the choice for straight stamina damage. Nothing wrong with giving heavy a leg up on light though.

Guppet

They need to look at tanking in SWTOR in PVP. Choose an ally put your guard on them, then if if you are close to them, 50% of their damage received comes to you and let heavy armour reduce that significantly. Voila heavy armour much more worth it and tanks have some real use in PVP.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Spottswoode wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

Heavy armor should emphasize blocking, imho. That's not to say that it should only be used for tanking, though.

Well how I view it even with out blocking HA should provide the best resistance in the game which it does for the most part but factor in the massive amount of weapon/spell damage players can achieve with crit and penetration too and all that resistance counts for nothing.

I agree for the most part. Latent crit resistance is sorely needed by heavy armor, as is more spell resistance and armor. (Sorry, magicka sorcs. It's true.) Light armor should give the most spell resistance and magicka based damage, Medium armor should give best mobility and stamina damage, and heavy should give the most protection and block mitigation.
Spell and armor penetration need to be effective against heavy armor though. Otherwise there's no point in the traits.

I can best summarize what I mean by saying that heavy armor should be able to block as well as a shield. (Yes, you read that right.) In real life, heavy armor was utilized by bracing the thicker, stronger parts of the armor against an incoming attack. In other words, blocking. As heavy armor improved over the centuries, shields became smaller and more specialized to the point where heavy armor users stopped using shields completely. Heavy armor users should be able to block as effectively as a medium armor user with a shield without the shield. (And should be able to block even better with the shield.) The tradeoff they should get for this is reduced mobility. (They already kind of do, with shields having a passive that increases movement speed while blocking.)

EdmundTowers wrote: »

I would like to see a buff to melee power attacks when wearing heavy armor. More weight to put into the attack = more damage. Plus a buff to the stamina return when landing the power attack as well. Both would help with heavy armor's lack of damage and resources. And since the buff only applies to power attacks, I think it would reward heavy armor players for properly weaving heavy attacks while tanking.

If I'm not mistaken, we did have a passive that did exactly that at one point in time. I'm actually ok with it, but medium armor should be the choice for straight stamina damage. Nothing wrong with giving heavy a leg up on light though.

Well yes blocking while in a full suit of HA should be the best defense int he game just my view even with out blocking you should feel safe and tanky in a full suit of HA but as most of us can see ...... sigh that is far from the truth.

DHale

Ha armor is certainly viable just not in ESO. But it used to be better.

Forestd16b14_ESO

DHale wrote: »

Ha armor is certainly viable just not in ESO. But it used to be better.

Yes for like a month after PC launch when ZOS actually had motive to balance the game and hey dunmer vampire DKs in full HA plaguing AvA........ And of course ZOS over nerfed.

Bobby_V_Rockit

Give it 6% melee weapon buff. That way its a nice halfway between light and medium and gives Tanks a chance to utilise some DPS when they have to (like vet WGT planar inhibitor)