Damage shield idea Wrobel mentioned

Wollust

Yeah sure, good idea. Wouldn't render the shields completely useless at all. Do you (including Wrobel) even have a slight understanding about the game?

FriedEggSandwich

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Farorin wrote: »

The damage shield idea is a nice idea that isn't a massive nerf, but rather a tweak. I like the idea, it's not too harsh on shield stackers, but it's still something to avoid the over the top spam. That being said, I am seeing a LOT less shield stackers anyway, and it's onwhere near as much of a problem as it used to be.

It is a massive nerf. And why do you want to protect shield-stackers? That stuff is cancer and needs to go. It seems crazy that so many acknowledge shield-stacking to be a problem but want hardened ward nerfed as a result. Bonkers.

Humatiel

This is an excellent Idea, while we're at it lets make reflect a 5 second cast time (while Dk's cant move). Then lets head over to NB and say they cant cloak more then once in 30 seconds (because yes), after that lets just finish off the dying templar and say BoL is based off health of the caster for power. Shields are panic buttons in all but very specific content, to create a cast time would bury it right beside Bone Shield (had to look the name up because I forgot it, literally never used).

Caligamy_ESO

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

Sure, why not. Go ahead and make a change that will possibly destroy PvE, all for the sake of the whiny turds in PvP.

This game is getting ridiculous with the constant nerf rotation. EVERYTHING is a knee jerk reaction with seemingly little thought for the bigger picture. And btw, here's an idea... if light armor with a shield makes a toon 'tankier' than heavy armor, maybe it is a really good sign heavy armor needs a massive buff (rather than light/shields needing a nerf). When are we as a community going to start asking for buffs and elevating certain mechanics and classes to be on par with others rather than crying for nerfs and driving everything into the dirt?!

I love this game, but I can see why soo many get frustrated and move on to other games

Note: Before someone misinterprets this post to be me defending Sorcs/shields, please notice that I play all the classes and a magicka sorc is not my main. When you play all the classes and do both PvP and PvE, you see the game from a more unbiased perspective. Most of the cries for nerfs are extremely biased.

Insightful & Agree. I personally have been playing older games since early January because I am just not finding any fun or enjoyment in ESO lately. Also from what I have seen on the PTS, I am not expecting any of that to change anytime soon. C'est la vie.. there are many many other fish in the sea.

RatedChaotic

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The nerf hammer towards sorcs is comical.

Bolt escape nerfed 7 times most expensive skill in the game and the only one that punishes the person for using it with a never ending stacking cost increase(50% more,100% more, 150%more etc)

Negate ultimate gutted to uselessness

strom atronach nerfed no longer taunts

Power Overload nerfed from 15% bonus damage to 6% and attack speed slowed down.

Shields nerfed 15% of their value in 1.6 update

Shields nerfed to 50% of their value with orsinium

Sorc has no instant cast direct damage class skill like every other class had (Jabs, whip, veiled strike)

Daedric mines nerfed so you can't set off multiple mines at once even if your standing on them

At this point the qq towards sorcs is just ridiculous.

If they honestly add a cast time to shields, that will be the final straw for me.

If adding a cast time to shields is there answer then this game has no future at all and tells me how absolutely clueless they really are and I will have no reason st bother sticking around and paying.

Yes shields need an adjustment but adding cast times, an armor set, or a champ system passive isn't the answer.

This game needs a complete class reset with someone who knows what they are doing to actually get it right and make it fun, sadly I doubt that happens

Thats BS.

Faulgor

Best idea he had all day.

I always felt the power of Hardened Ward actually held Sorcerers back, because adressing any other issues of the class would have left them OP in combination with their ridiculous shields. If this change goes hand in hand with improving other areas of the class, I'm all for it.

FriedEggSandwich

Faulgor wrote: »

Best idea he had all day.

I always felt the power of Hardened Ward actually held Sorcerers back, because adressing any other issues of the class would have left them OP in combination with their ridiculous shields. If this change goes hand in hand with improving other areas of the class, I'm all for it.

But sorcs don't have "ridiculous shields", they have one 10-12k shield. Another example of the "shield-stacking op - nerf hardened ward" mentality.

Forestd16b14_ESO

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

RatedChaotic

Wrobel will destroy the game.

sagitter

Just let shields take critical damage and others abilities. Actually skills like jabs (burning light proc) or swallow soul (health giveback) don't work vs shields.

Lucky28

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

One shield used to be enough. until they Nerfed Streak, now you pretty much have to stack shields to do anything of note in PvP (solo play). Which i do not like. i started playing the sorc for the mobility and have now found myself playing a 'stand your ground' class..... said this in another thread but i'll say it again. gimme back my mobility class and you can do whatever you want with shields.

FriedEggSandwich

Lucky28 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

One shield used to be enough. until they Nerfed Streak, now you pretty much have to stack shields to do anything of note in PvP (solo play). Which i do not like. i started playing the sorc for the mobility and have now found myself playing a 'stand your ground' class..... said this in another thread but i'll say it again. gimme back my mobility class and you can do whatever you want with shields.

One shield is still plenty considering it inherits the protection of Hardy, Thick-Skinned and Elemental Defender, can't be one-shot in the current meta, and can be recast immediately. Hardened Ward is balanced by itself, but combined with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka becomes too strong. The problem for me is that sorcs who insist they need to stack all 3 shields to survive are doing a disservice to the sorc class. Unless shield-stacking is prevented/nerfed/removed/whatever then the individual wards will get balanced around them being combined with each other, therefore making them useless by themselves. This would reduce the options sorcs have and force them into the shield-stacking meta. Right now, especially with the change to Hardy, I feel like single shield use is still an option for me, but if sorcs keep tanking zergs with 3 wards and people keep complaining about sorcs with wards then Hardened Ward is gonna get nerfed.

Try wearing 2 pieces of heavy armour, put impen on your armour instead of divines, wear a cost-reduction glyph, invest in Hardy and Elemental Defender, and combine Hardened Ward with Defensive Rune (instead of harness and healing). You'd be surprised how survivable this makes you and it still leaves you with one spare slot to carry something more interesting than another ward.

FriedEggSandwich

Just watched the episode of ESO Live to see for myself. Wrobel also said that part of their idea to introduce a cast time to shields would include a substantial buff to those shields' strengths to allow them to be cast before combat rather than during combat. He also said that the minor/major buff system was being considered to prevent players from stacking so many shields.

So I ask you people; would you rather see a system where healing ward and hardened ward could not be combined, or a system where all damage shields were buffed but still allowed to stack? Food for thought.

Lucky28

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

One shield used to be enough. until they Nerfed Streak, now you pretty much have to stack shields to do anything of note in PvP (solo play). Which i do not like. i started playing the sorc for the mobility and have now found myself playing a 'stand your ground' class..... said this in another thread but i'll say it again. gimme back my mobility class and you can do whatever you want with shields.

One shield is still plenty considering it inherits the protection of Hardy, Thick-Skinned and Elemental Defender, can't be one-shot in the current meta, and can be recast immediately. Hardened Ward is balanced by itself, but combined with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka becomes too strong. The problem for me is that sorcs who insist they need to stack all 3 shields to survive are doing a disservice to the sorc class. Unless shield-stacking is prevented/nerfed/removed/whatever then the individual wards will get balanced around them being combined with each other, therefore making them useless by themselves. This would reduce the options sorcs have and force them into the shield-stacking meta. Right now, especially with the change to Hardy, I feel like single shield use is still an option for me, but if sorcs keep tanking zergs with 3 wards and people keep complaining about sorcs with wards then Hardened Ward is gonna get nerfed.

Try wearing 2 pieces of heavy armour, put impen on your armour instead of divines, wear a cost-reduction glyph, invest in Hardy and Elemental Defender, and combine Hardened Ward with Defensive Rune (instead of harness and healing). You'd be surprised how survivable this makes you and it still leaves you with one spare slot to carry something more interesting than another ward.

If this game where balanced around 1v1 pvp i would agree. but it's not. this is a game where you can come face to face with 50+ enemy players (and often do) with that in mind, i do not think anything is particularly broken it's just people want instant gratification and don't like anything that can kill them or they can't kill in two seconds, and when they're met with such a situation they cry foul and want it nerfed which causes more problems then it fixes.

at any rate. shields are useful but it's line of sight that makes tanking zergs possible. i can stack all the shields in the game but if i'm outnumbered in an open field. it's not gonna help any.

Witar

So igneous shield on my DK will not only be small but also will have cast time? Really?

Witar

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Sorc has no instant cast direct damage class skill like every other class had (Jabs, whip, veiled strike)

Wish they give sorcs 5k whip and took away 20k frags. Would be at least funny.

Septimus_Magna

I can tell you now, sorcs will be useless in pvp if hardened ward has a cast time.

Everyone just roll a NB or DK, no need to waste your time with sorcs or templars.

FriedEggSandwich

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Lucky28 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

One shield used to be enough. until they Nerfed Streak, now you pretty much have to stack shields to do anything of note in PvP (solo play). Which i do not like. i started playing the sorc for the mobility and have now found myself playing a 'stand your ground' class..... said this in another thread but i'll say it again. gimme back my mobility class and you can do whatever you want with shields.

One shield is still plenty considering it inherits the protection of Hardy, Thick-Skinned and Elemental Defender, can't be one-shot in the current meta, and can be recast immediately. Hardened Ward is balanced by itself, but combined with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka becomes too strong. The problem for me is that sorcs who insist they need to stack all 3 shields to survive are doing a disservice to the sorc class. Unless shield-stacking is prevented/nerfed/removed/whatever then the individual wards will get balanced around them being combined with each other, therefore making them useless by themselves. This would reduce the options sorcs have and force them into the shield-stacking meta. Right now, especially with the change to Hardy, I feel like single shield use is still an option for me, but if sorcs keep tanking zergs with 3 wards and people keep complaining about sorcs with wards then Hardened Ward is gonna get nerfed.

Try wearing 2 pieces of heavy armour, put impen on your armour instead of divines, wear a cost-reduction glyph, invest in Hardy and Elemental Defender, and combine Hardened Ward with Defensive Rune (instead of harness and healing). You'd be surprised how survivable this makes you and it still leaves you with one spare slot to carry something more interesting than another ward.

If this game where balanced around 1v1 pvp i would agree. but it's not. this is a game where you can come face to face with 50+ enemy players (and often do) with that in mind, i do not think anything is particularly broken it's just people want instant gratification and don't like anything that can kill them or they can't kill in two seconds, and when they're met with such a situation they cry foul and want it nerfed which causes more problems then it fixes.

at any rate. shields are useful but it's line of sight that makes tanking zergs possible. i can stack all the shields in the game but if i'm outnumbered in an open field. it's not gonna help any.

I'm not coming from a 1v1 standpoint either, I understand that the game is balanced around group play. I agree that many people just want instant gratification and are too vocal about stuff they find hard. But the issue of sorcs high damage combined with the ability to continuously absorb high damage is undoubtedly unbalanced. Sorcs ward should be a safety net allowing them to absorb enough damage to give them time to think and react, it shouldn't turn them into tanks.

I'm not suggesting that if shield-stacking were removed everything would be fine, it would need to be combined with other tweaks to ensure sorcs weren't left too vunerable. But my main issue is: how can anyone have any discussion about how balanced Hardened Ward (or any shield) is when they can always just be combined into this super-ward that takes up 3 slots on a sorcs bar? If you balance the super 3-in-1 ward where does that leave anyone who just wants to use one ward?

This has already been happening. The shield-breaker set penalises a mageblade using Harness Magicka as much as it does a shield-stacking sorc. Same goes for the new CP line, precise blows or whatever; this will punish any sorc using just Hardened Ward as much as it punishes a sorc using all 3. This makes using Hardened Ward on its own less desirable and perpetuates the shield-stacking meta. All the shield-stacking counters zos have introduced so far have actually just been shield counters which have strengthened the shield-stacking meta. Are you not worried about this? Sorcs need more survivability options aside from stack 3 shields, and this won't happen till shield-stacking is nerfed/removed.

olsborg

I like the major buff idea mostly. Im only using hardward anyway

actosh

Dont worry. Will take them ages to put that in cause they have no idea what they are doin.

Lucky28

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

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Lucky28 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

I rather them go with adding the to the major/minor system regardless if they only get 1 shield or not. 1 shield is plenty.

One shield used to be enough. until they Nerfed Streak, now you pretty much have to stack shields to do anything of note in PvP (solo play). Which i do not like. i started playing the sorc for the mobility and have now found myself playing a 'stand your ground' class..... said this in another thread but i'll say it again. gimme back my mobility class and you can do whatever you want with shields.

One shield is still plenty considering it inherits the protection of Hardy, Thick-Skinned and Elemental Defender, can't be one-shot in the current meta, and can be recast immediately. Hardened Ward is balanced by itself, but combined with Healing Ward and Harness Magicka becomes too strong. The problem for me is that sorcs who insist they need to stack all 3 shields to survive are doing a disservice to the sorc class. Unless shield-stacking is prevented/nerfed/removed/whatever then the individual wards will get balanced around them being combined with each other, therefore making them useless by themselves. This would reduce the options sorcs have and force them into the shield-stacking meta. Right now, especially with the change to Hardy, I feel like single shield use is still an option for me, but if sorcs keep tanking zergs with 3 wards and people keep complaining about sorcs with wards then Hardened Ward is gonna get nerfed.

Try wearing 2 pieces of heavy armour, put impen on your armour instead of divines, wear a cost-reduction glyph, invest in Hardy and Elemental Defender, and combine Hardened Ward with Defensive Rune (instead of harness and healing). You'd be surprised how survivable this makes you and it still leaves you with one spare slot to carry something more interesting than another ward.

If this game where balanced around 1v1 pvp i would agree. but it's not. this is a game where you can come face to face with 50+ enemy players (and often do) with that in mind, i do not think anything is particularly broken it's just people want instant gratification and don't like anything that can kill them or they can't kill in two seconds, and when they're met with such a situation they cry foul and want it nerfed which causes more problems then it fixes.

at any rate. shields are useful but it's line of sight that makes tanking zergs possible. i can stack all the shields in the game but if i'm outnumbered in an open field. it's not gonna help any.

I'm not coming from a 1v1 standpoint either, I understand that the game is balanced around group play. I agree that many people just want instant gratification and are too vocal about stuff they find hard. But the issue of sorcs high damage combined with the ability to continuously absorb high damage is undoubtedly unbalanced. Sorcs ward should be a safety net allowing them to absorb enough damage to give them time to think and react, it shouldn't turn them into tanks.

I'm not suggesting that if shield-stacking were removed everything would be fine, it would need to be combined with other tweaks to ensure sorcs weren't left too vunerable. But my main issue is: how can anyone have any discussion about how balanced Hardened Ward (or any shield) is when they can always just be combined into this super-ward that takes up 3 slots on a sorcs bar? If you balance the super 3-in-1 ward where does that leave anyone who just wants to use one ward?

This has already been happening. The shield-breaker set penalises a mageblade using Harness Magicka as much as it does a shield-stacking sorc. Same goes for the new CP line, precise blows or whatever; this will punish any sorc using just Hardened Ward as much as it punishes a sorc using all 3. This makes using Hardened Ward on its own less desirable and perpetuates the shield-stacking meta. All the shield-stacking counters zos have introduced so far have actually just been shield counters which have strengthened the shield-stacking meta. Are you not worried about this? Sorcs need more survivability options aside from stack 3 shields, and this won't happen till shield-stacking is nerfed/removed.

I did already say i would prefer if they gave me back my mobility. however, they're not doing that. On the PTS our mobility has actually been further nerfed with a reduction to movement speed on boundless storm. with every update that strips away our mobility shield stacking becomes more and more appealing.

I played sorc originally because it was a mobility class, not because it was a shield stacking class. I don't like where sorc is and where it's going. but right now shield stacking is what's most effective.

I mean after ic i was still trying to play the mobility role for a while. and was humbled by the fact that i couldn't catch a freakin' DK

Derra

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

I think it's excellent. Damage shields that have a long duration like hardened ward, and harness magicka should have a longer cast time; whereas damage shields that last only 6 seconds such as Sun Shield, Bone Shield (lawz), and Healing Ward should remain as an instant cast. As a side note, I still think the potential damage shield Healing a ward has is a bit on the strong side.

Yeah. Breath of life, cloak, reflective scales should also get a casttime then because you know - equality.

I´m all in favor of a major minor buff system though. Casttimes on shields will lead to every class that can avoiding shields like the devil does with holy water. Three classes can one cant.

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

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Farorin wrote: »

The damage shield idea is a nice idea that isn't a massive nerf, but rather a tweak. I like the idea, it's not too harsh on shield stackers, but it's still something to avoid the over the top spam. That being said, I am seeing a LOT less shield stackers anyway, and it's onwhere near as much of a problem as it used to be.

It is a massive nerf. And why do you want to protect shield-stackers? That stuff is cancer and needs to go. It seems crazy that so many acknowledge shield-stacking to be a problem but want hardened ward nerfed as a result. Bonkers.

So many times this.

It would be like adding an interruptable casttime to breath of life or cloak. There is a reason nobody uses the templar castheal.

Thelon

Cinnamon_Spider

Worst idea ever.

Are we going to add a cast time to dodge roll also? We can add a cast time to blocking while we're at it.

Mojmir

Adding a cast time to mounting horse

magnusthorek

Unbelievable how many bad ideas pop out to **** sorcerers. What's the point of being able to deal good amount of damage (and even though MUCH less than Templars or NB) if you break like a toothpick?

I don't see suggestions towards improvements to sorcerer's survivability. The ONLY thing we have to defend ourselves is target of nerf requests. Now it's MY turn to throw a "L2P"Unbelievable how many bad ideas pop out to **** sorcerers. What's the point of being able to deal good amount of damage (and even though MUCH less than Templars or NB) if you break like a toothpick?

I don't see suggestions towards improvements to sorcerer's survivability. The ONLY thing we have to defend ourselves is target of nerf requests. Now it's MY turn to throw a "L2P"...

Molag_Crow

Kammakazi wrote: »

Yeah.... no.

Embrace it

mdylan2013

can we get a cast time on cloak as well then?

Strider_Roshin

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

I can tell you now, sorcs will be useless in pvp if hardened ward has a cast time.

Everyone just roll a NB or DK, no need to waste your time with sorcs or templars.

But you're forgetting. Nightblades are useless now because they can no longer cloak ;-)

Strider_Roshin

mdylan2013 wrote: »

can we get a cast time on cloak as well then?

Hey no problem, they made cloak useless with the Thieves Guild anyways. Make the longest cast time you want on that move, I'm not going to use it.