New CP for shield damage should be damage ignoring shield

silky_soft

There is armor pen and spell pen, but no shield pen. Why isn't there a weakness to bubbles? Surely when the bubble is getting lower on strength a % could bypass?
Just make the new cp at what percentage it starts to bypass and take HP.

Note: This wouldn't be unresistable like shield break. It would go off your armor stats. Helping build diversity.

Or could be like this suggestion.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Agreed.

Now before every one says "OP" here's how it will probably work.

You pool say 48 points into it and get 15% the 15% of the attack that hits the damage shield will by pass it so say you deal a 5K attack 5,000*15%=750. That will be 750 damage straight to you. Yes their be those massive 10K+ damage but that still be 10,000*15%=1500 and if the player is reactive enough they'll be able to heal through it.

Cause after all look at shield breaker that just deals a flat what 2000 something damage damage and shield users are still able to live long through it.

Like by passing the shield it helluva alot more useful than just dealing extra damage to the shield cause hey what's that extra 500 points good for when a shield user can just hit 1 button and regain that 500 points.

Was waiting for this comment. Thanks Xeniph.

Xeniph wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Um... You do realize that the whole magicka sorcerer as a class option for pvp is balanced around the idea that sorcs use damage shields to protect themselves, right?... The same way as templars are balanced around healing themselves instead of running around by sprinting?...

You mean like Nb's are designed around stealth/Cloak. With passives and abilities that proc from that state?

Dread_Guy

So you want every attack to have the shield breaker effect to an extent?

Valrien

Why?

RoamingRiverElk

Um... You do realize that the whole magicka sorcerer as a class option for pvp is balanced around the idea that sorcs use damage shields to protect themselves, right?... The same way as templars are balanced around healing themselves instead of running around by sprinting?...

Xeniph

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Um... You do realize that the whole magicka sorcerer as a class option for pvp is balanced around the idea that sorcs use damage shields to protect themselves, right?... The same way as templars are balanced around healing themselves instead of running around by sprinting?...

You mean like Nb's are designed around stealth/Cloak. With passives and abilities that proc from that state?

Forestd16b14_ESO

Agreed.

Now before every one says "OP" here's how it will probably work.

You pool say 48 points into it and get 15% the 15% of the attack that hits the damage shield will by pass it so say you deal a 5K attack 5,000*15%=750. That will be 750 damage straight to you. Yes their be those massive 10K+ damage but that still be 10,000*15%=1500 and if the player is reactive enough they'll be able to heal through it.

Cause after all look at shield breaker that just deals a flat what 2000 something damage damage and shield users are still able to live long through it.

Like by passing the shield it helluva alot more useful than just dealing extra damage to the shield cause hey what's that extra 500 points good for when a shield user can just hit 1 button and regain that 500 points.

marvel_bound

That doesnt balance anything . It would make damage sheilds worthless. if they do that im officially done.the whole reason to use it is to not take damage.

Glory

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Um... You do realize that the whole magicka sorcerer as a class option for pvp is balanced around the idea that sorcs use damage shields to protect themselves, right?... The same way as templars are balanced around healing themselves instead of running around by sprinting?...

Xeniph wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Um... You do realize that the whole magicka sorcerer as a class option for pvp is balanced around the idea that sorcs use damage shields to protect themselves, right?... The same way as templars are balanced around healing themselves instead of running around by sprinting?...

You mean like Nb's are designed around stealth/Cloak. With passives and abilities that proc from that state?

And DK's are designed to get the living s*** beat outta them!

silky_soft

Apparently shield breaker made shields worthless. But we still see the same debate roll on. You can't crit them or get crit procs off them vs damage is not mitigated.

So why is that we still talk about shields in general being op?

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Agreed.

Now before every one says "OP" here's how it will probably work.

You pool say 48 points into it and get 15% the 15% of the attack that hits the damage shield will by pass it so say you deal a 5K attack 5,000*15%=750. That will be 750 damage straight to you. Yes their be those massive 10K+ damage but that still be 10,000*15%=1500 and if the player is reactive enough they'll be able to heal through it.

Cause after all look at shield breaker that just deals a flat what 2000 something damage damage and shield users are still able to live long through it.

Like by passing the shield it helluva alot more useful than just dealing extra damage to the shield cause hey what's that extra 500 points good for when a shield user can just hit 1 button and regain that 500 points.

This person has the right idea. Don't forget we can't crit shields and there will be a no cp get campaign for all the whiners to frolic in.

CP is accessible to everyone who is vet rank. You can spec into it straight away and it's not locked behind dlc.
You don't need a special build for it.
You might actually have to sacrifice points from things else to spec it. Unlike a shield where buffing your damage is also buffing your defence.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

There is no "balanced around" XYZ in ESO. There is no balance PERIOD!

Erondil

You have to be damn stupid to think its a good idea, and probably never played a magicka build in the latest patches. 15% damages going through shield is crazy because it works with every attack (dot, normal skills, light/heavy attacks, bash..) and thus it will be over 1.5-2k/sec bypassing shields for a dps build. That doesnt seem like a lot, and is probably mangeable in 1v1 but in open world 1vX/large scale it would completely destroy any magicka sorc/nb, as its 15% that goes through their only big selfheal (healing ward). 1 shieldbreaker is already super hard to deal with in 1vX, you are purposing to give a free shieldbreaker to everybody... smart

Faulgor

Sounds like a terrific idea. Only other MMO I played where shields played such a major role was Star Trek Online, and shield bleedthrough was a standard mechanic there.

And I don't see how it would be OP. You'll have to divert CP from other important passives like Mighty just to counter one build. In fact, it might still be too weak.

Sharee

Do you remember the time back near release when harness magicka only absorbed 50% of the incoming damage and let the rest through?

I remember how people mourned when it got changed to 100%. Because before the change, you basically had a 50% mitigation spell that lasted a long time(since the shield only took 50% of the incoming damage).

Guess what i'm trying to say is that the proposed change might not be as bad as it appears at first glance. If shields let some damage though, and only absorbed the rest, it would make healing a much more important part of gameplay for anyone using a shield, but shields would still be awesome, not as an ability completely blocking damage, but as an ability providing heavy mitigation for a long time.

Erondil

Faulgor wrote: »

Sounds like a terrific idea. Only other MMO I played where shields played such a major role was Star Trek Online, and shield bleedthrough was a standard mechanic there.

And I don't see how it would be OP. You'll have to divert CP from other important passives like Mighty just to counter one build. In fact, it might still be too weak.

"1 build"lol... pretty much every solo light armour build, except maybe templar heavily rely on damage shield (mainly healing ward). They could forget any idea of 1vXing with such a change. Its gamebreaking for 30-50% of solo players out there.

silky_soft

Just what I thought. You can't 1vs a full raid anymore. Oh the agony. 30-50% less videos, good.

Erondil

silky_soft wrote: »

Just what I thought. You can't 1vs a full raid anymore. Oh the agony. 30-50% less videos, good.

I mean 1v2-3-4. If your full raid get 1vxed then you should reconsider yourself and not the game balance as you've clearly no clue of how the game works.

Ryuho

silky_soft wrote: »

Just what I thought. You can't 1vs a full raid anymore. Oh the agony. 30-50% less videos, good.

Pffff we had few days ago 2 vs 15 with @olsborg, and guess why we managed to rekt them, because we had our *** shields, also used environtment etc, but the point is with proposed above = RIP sorc class, no wait RIP evry1 relying on shields as @Erondil said. You won't be able to do1 vs x, 2 vs x, currently is hard to counter 2 shieldbreaker users, light attack spamm just melt ur hp especially if som1 use wightened bow, u need to slot extra heal for it and with proposed changes prolly u would just die.. why u say, its just minor change? No its not, I think u haven't dueled on pts and tried dotable shields changes, just try duel as sorc u will see, as sorc dueling som1 with dot build + shieldbreaker is uber hard to win if u dont burst him down fast, and meet x 3 such guys in open world, if u wont blink away for sure u will just die..

silky_soft

So what you are saying is that you can't run full glass with high dps and the best damage mitigation in the game if these changes went down? And the game would be over?

Just like when we got the dodge for days balance, the block balance and the cloak balance.

Erondil wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Just what I thought. You can't 1vs a full raid anymore. Oh the agony. 30-50% less videos, good.

I mean 1v2-3-4. If your full raid get 1vxed then you should reconsider yourself and not the game balance as you've clearly no clue of how the game works.

Hyperbole

NativeJoe

just NO.

i don't want to slot a resto staff <.<

hrothbern

If applied:

Sorcerers will get stronger in PVE
Sorcerers will get weaker in PVP

I do not think that it is a good way forward.

Derra

Should also be how much of your dmg ignores dodgeroll and how much of your dmg can´t be healed...

Also if the dmg would be devided between shields and HP that would be a tremendous buff for certain builds that maintain passive healing while having shields. Not a well thought out idea at all.

silky_soft

Derra wrote: »

Should also be how much of your dmg ignores dodgeroll and how much of your dmg can´t be healed...

Also if the dmg would be devided between shields and HP that would be a tremendous buff for certain builds that maintain passive healing while having shields. Not a well thought out idea at all.

Should also be how much of your crit damages shields.

You make it sound like everyone will drop their main cp selections just to accommodate this. Just like shield spamming is a small amount of builds. The counter will be small due to high cp cost.

ShalidorsHeir

thats the most stupid post of a person who probably just get killed by a sorc 5 mins ago ... ^^

how to create a "nerf" argument:

1. think
2. see the consequences
3. let it be

crit on shields for all classes (mana + stam) and remove shield breaker ... or giving sorc another defense he has to use instead of more dmg skills is all enough

Derra

silky_soft wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Should also be how much of your dmg ignores dodgeroll and how much of your dmg can´t be healed...

Also if the dmg would be devided between shields and HP that would be a tremendous buff for certain builds that maintain passive healing while having shields. Not a well thought out idea at all.

Should also be how much of your crit damages shields.

You make it sound like everyone will drop their main cp selections just to accommodate this. Just like shield spamming is a small amount of builds. The counter will be small due to high cp cost.

It completely depends on implementation.

I just don´t understand why you want to have something to bypass the main defense of a class. It´s just as questionable as having magelight preventing people from using cloak at all.

If you implement these the next step is the ability for every skill to bypass dodge under certain circumstances and unhealable dmg.

Digiman

This won't work because it would be too powerful against a single class that was mutilated by the same community that wanted light armor to be as weak as tissue paper.

Without defenses like ward they would die in two hits. Even if they put all their points into health, because light armor is weak and is the only way to increase their spell efficiency they would still die fast.

Right now in PTS the increased damage against shields means people can put more pressure on not only sorcerers but other classes that use absorb effects...



But if you want your dreamily overpowered ignore shield effect, then ZoS would have to remove the debuff from Bolt escape on top of dramatically increasing spell damage to the point the sorcerer is a glass cannon that will likely 2 shot you since you would to shot them.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Digiman wrote: »

This won't work because it would be too powerful against a single class that was mutilated by the same community that wanted light armor to be as weak as tissue paper.

Without defenses like ward they would die in two hits. Even if they put all their points into health, because light armor is weak and is the only way to increase their spell efficiency they would still die fast.

Right now in PTS the increased damage against shields means people can put more pressure on not only sorcerers but other classes that use absorb effects...



But if you want your dreamily overpowered ignore shield effect, then ZoS would have to remove the debuff from Bolt escape on top of dramatically increasing spell damage to the point the sorcerer is a glass cannon that will likely 2 shot you since you would to shot them.

Sorry but no cause if it's a % then it would be ridiculously weak cause to get that good damage the player not only has to have good damage to begin with but alot of CP into the skill it self and even then it maybe breaking even with the shield breaker set and as we all can see shield breaker not that OP.

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Agreed.

Now before every one says "OP" here's how it will probably work.

You pool say 48 points into it and get 15% the 15% of the attack that hits the damage shield will by pass it so say you deal a 5K attack 5,000*15%=750. That will be 750 damage straight to you. Yes their be those massive 10K+ damage but that still be 10,000*15%=1500 and if the player is reactive enough they'll be able to heal through it.

Cause after all look at shield breaker that just deals a flat what 2000 something damage damage and shield users are still able to live long through it.

Like by passing the shield it helluva alot more useful than just dealing extra damage to the shield cause hey what's that extra 500 points good for when a shield user can just hit 1 button and regain that 500 points.

See what I mean it takes 48 points alone to get up to 15% and they still need decent DPS to get that unresistable damage. But I am pretty sure alot of player rather spend those points in mighty or the new thuagamater or elemental expert than something that allows small chipping at a damage shield enemy which doesn't mean AvA players but any enemy be player or NPC.

But again I ca be wrong just look at the past and how many players abused stuff before but again maybe it's long over do cause a LA user spamming shields shouldn't be able to outlast a HA tank.

RoyJade

You mean that my alway up 1k heal/sec mutagen will absorb some of the damage my shield take ? And that my shield will getting stronger because of taking less damage, when I can very easily sponge these residual damage like I actually does against shield breaker one ? If you really want to nerf super-burster sorc but boost ALL other buster and magicka based sorc, so okay.

Digiman

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

This won't work because it would be too powerful against a single class that was mutilated by the same community that wanted light armor to be as weak as tissue paper.

Without defenses like ward they would die in two hits. Even if they put all their points into health, because light armor is weak and is the only way to increase their spell efficiency they would still die fast.

Right now in PTS the increased damage against shields means people can put more pressure on not only sorcerers but other classes that use absorb effects...



But if you want your dreamily overpowered ignore shield effect, then ZoS would have to remove the debuff from Bolt escape on top of dramatically increasing spell damage to the point the sorcerer is a glass cannon that will likely 2 shot you since you would to shot them.

Sorry but no cause if it's a % then it would be ridiculously weak cause to get that good damage the player not only has to have good damage to begin with but alot of CP into the skill it self and even then it maybe breaking even with the shield breaker set and as we all can see shield breaker not that OP.

Keeping in mind shields are crittable now it would put immense pressure on them. Something that avoided the absorb effect would take a 25k cyrodilled buffed sorcerer in down quite fast.

Also keeping in mind the debuff against shield absorption in Cyrodill also is drastically decreased.

But you don't care about balance, you only care about breaking a class for fast kills. Which is why you completely ignore the fact that this CP also becomes a hard counter to bastion. Thus negating it's benefits and making sorcerers spend more magicka to put up their shields or a faster to time to take down their shields when you CC them.

FullBlownBeast

Digiman wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Digiman wrote: »

This won't work because it would be too powerful against a single class that was mutilated by the same community that wanted light armor to be as weak as tissue paper.

Without defenses like ward they would die in two hits. Even if they put all their points into health, because light armor is weak and is the only way to increase their spell efficiency they would still die fast.

Right now in PTS the increased damage against shields means people can put more pressure on not only sorcerers but other classes that use absorb effects...



But if you want your dreamily overpowered ignore shield effect, then ZoS would have to remove the debuff from Bolt escape on top of dramatically increasing spell damage to the point the sorcerer is a glass cannon that will likely 2 shot you since you would to shot them.

Sorry but no cause if it's a % then it would be ridiculously weak cause to get that good damage the player not only has to have good damage to begin with but alot of CP into the skill it self and even then it maybe breaking even with the shield breaker set and as we all can see shield breaker not that OP.

Keeping in mind shields are crittable now it would put immense pressure on them. Something that avoided the absorb effect would take a 25k cyrodilled buffed sorcerer in down quite fast.

Also keeping in mind the debuff against shield absorption in Cyrodill also is drastically decreased.

But you don't care about balance, you only care about breaking a class for fast kills. Which is why you completely ignore the fact that this CP also becomes a hard counter to bastion. Thus negating it's benefits and making sorcerers spend more magicka to put up their shields or a faster to time to take down their shields when you CC them.

Checked both the original patch notes and the incremental, and I have yet to find any where they have stated that shields are critable. So what are you saying.

pmn100b16_ESO

Shields are not critable. Maybe he means bleeds now affect them, not quite in the same league as critable shields though.

Lucky28

silky_soft wrote: »

So what you are saying is that you can't run full glass with high dps and the best damage mitigation in the game if these changes went down? And the game would be over?

Just like when we got the dodge for days balance, the block balance and the cloak balance.

Erondil wrote: »

silky_soft wrote: »

Just what I thought. You can't 1vs a full raid anymore. Oh the agony. 30-50% less videos, good.

I mean 1v2-3-4. If your full raid get 1vxed then you should reconsider yourself and not the game balance as you've clearly no clue of how the game works.

Hyperbole

And all those changes contributed to the stack raid upon raid upon raid meta. so, no. i do not want the game to become more zergy, which is what the changes you are implying would lead to.