Long Live the Blobs!

Talcyndl

Anyone think that the planned changes to Purge, Steel Tornado and Prox Det will actually change the current Blob group meta?

The Steel Tornado change is actually a BUFF.

Same with Prox Det - assuming it hits more than 4 people.

Purge costs slightly more, but the limit to party members effected won't mean anything accept MAYBE one or two more people casting it. So all the siege changes will be of no effect on these groups.

Erondil

Talcyndl wrote: »

Anyone think that the planned changes to Purge, Steel Tornado and Prox Det will actually change the current Blob group meta?

The Steel Tornado change is actually a BUFF.

Same with Prox Det - assuming it hits more than 4 people.

Purge costs slightly more, but the limit to party members effected won't mean anything accept MAYBE one or two more people casting it. So all the siege changes will be of no effect on these groups.

Do you think people will keep mindlessly blobing up once they all got os by 1 deto?

Talcyndl

Erondil wrote: »

Do you think people will keep mindlessly blobing up once they all got os by 1 deto?

But they won't. The damage multiplier is only 100% when it hits 10+ targets. Not anything a Healing Springs blob has to worry about. Maybe a coordinated "small" group of 4 or 5 might make a dent, but they will be taking greater damage from the blob's prox det than they would on live (and won't have the extra purgers and healers).

Zheg

People will just run harness magicka to mitigate the prox dets (more than they currently do), same for quick cloak. I think people will go slightly more tanky and everyone will be running devouring bats, but I don't see a huge shift away from the need for a group to stay somewhat condensed considering that all of the current mitigation tools (nova, veil, circle of prot, negate, healing, the new OP DK ult shield, etc.) all require players to be within range. You can't just increase the damage, reduce the mitigation and survival tools (barrier, purge, rapid, etc.) and not give alternative mitigation tools that DON'T require you to be mostly condensed. Or, I guess wrobel can...

Talcyndl

Zheg wrote: »

I guess wrobel can...

He is utterly clueless about where Cyrodiil stands atm. It seems Wheeler has some understanding - he even laid out that "they" don't want to encourage the blob mentality. And the siege changes were obviously intended to act as a counter to those groups. But, once Wheeler backed off on the unpurgeable effects, and relied on Wrobel to change Purge to make things work...well, that was the end of any hope things would be fixed.

themdogesbite

With BoL nerfs healing springs will probably be a lot more prominent in PvP. 4 High damage Detos and a negate to dispel the healingsprings with a oil catapult to keep enemies snared could probably end up beeing a very dangerous combo. Overall most changes hurts the blob meta, but aslong as they get rewarded MORE AP then they are currently i dont think it will change. They will probably just be slightly easier to deal with.

God_flakes

Talcyndl wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

I guess wrobel can...

He is utterly clueless about where Cyrodiil stands atm. It seems Wheeler has some understanding - he even laid out that "they" don't want to encourage the blob mentality. And the siege changes were obviously intended to act as a counter to those groups. But, once Wheeler backed off on the unpurgeable effects, and relied on Wrobel to change Purge to make things work...well, that was the end of any hope things would be fixed.

My small scale group and I agree-Wheeler caved to pressure from the Zerg groups.

Erondil

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Do you think people will keep mindlessly blobing up once they all got os by 1 deto?

But they won't. The damage multiplier is only 100% when it hits 10+ targets. Not anything a Healing Springs blob has to worry about. Maybe a coordinated "small" group of 4 or 5 might make a dent, but they will be taking greater damage from the blob's prox det than they would on live (and won't have the extra purgers and healers).

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

Zheg wrote: »

People will just run harness magicka to mitigate the prox dets (more than they currently do), same for quick cloak. I think people will go slightly more tanky and everyone will be running devouring bats, but I don't see a huge shift away from the need for a group to stay somewhat condensed considering that all of the current mitigation tools (nova, veil, circle of prot, negate, healing, the new OP DK ult shield, etc.) all require players to be within range. You can't just increase the damage, reduce the mitigation and survival tools (barrier, purge, rapid, etc.) and not give alternative mitigation tools that DON'T require you to be mostly condensed. Or, I guess wrobel can...

We will have to wait to see how it goes, but I'm very optimistic about those changes. 20 morons stacked together spamming one key will be taken down by a good group of 4. Of course good raids of 24 will adapt and find ways to deal with it but they will certainly have to be more carefull if they dont want to lose people every now and then.

Talcyndl

themdogesbite wrote: »

They will probably just be slightly easier to deal with.

They needed to be broken, not maybe, slightly weakened. Unless ZOS has some magik cure for the lag, as long as the blobs continue to run (and fight each other), Cyrodiil will remain unplayable during primetime.

Talcyndl

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Zheg

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Agree that the number is not realistic. Most emps don't even hit that hard with prox det. Maybe the 20k is coming from hitting a poor unsuspecting dwemer pet.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Let's see how many steel nados or magic dets blobs can sue once they get pelted by oil pults or lighting ballistes.

Erondil

Zheg wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Agree that the number is not realistic. Most emps don't even hit that hard with prox det. Maybe the 20k is coming from hitting a poor unsuspecting dwemer pet.

No its not. In group I run a full damage build with < 1.4k regen, bosmer vampblade with somebody running spellpower and another powerfull assault. I hit often players for 17-18k, and a few over 20k every session of 2hrs+. If your magblade emp doesnt hit that hard then tbh his build doesnt fit his role.

themdogesbite

Zheg wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Agree that the number is not realistic. Most emps don't even hit that hard with prox det. Maybe the 20k is coming from hitting a poor unsuspecting dwemer pet.

I can confirm theese numbers. Powerfull assult + Spell power cure procc with woodelf passive from invis bats.

EDIT: Dont forget warhorn!

Talcyndl

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Let's see how many steel nados or magic dets blobs can sue once they get pelted by oil pults or lighting ballistes.

The Lightning Ballista effect is only 10% per tick. And since the "ticks" will be purged by the Blob groups, the effect will be minimal. The 20% Stamina hit from Oil Cats, might have a slight impact. But stam builds aren't going to be debilitated by it. Not to mention, the Blob groups will simply have one of their Templars slot Restoring Aura.

Zheg

Erondil wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Agree that the number is not realistic. Most emps don't even hit that hard with prox det. Maybe the 20k is coming from hitting a poor unsuspecting dwemer pet.

No its not. In group I run a full damage build with < 1.4k regen, bosmer vampblade with somebody running spellpower and another powerfull assault. I hit often players for 17-18k, and a few over 20k every session of 2hrs+. If your magblade emp doesnt hit that hard then tbh his build doesnt fit his role.

Except, people wear impen in NA

You will not be getting those numbers on players that are actual threats to you. Powerful assault and spell power are not super secret buffs, other groups run them too, and a 20k prox det on a non emp against a pvper (that isn't a newb) is not realistic.

Erondil

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

If you know how to you can survive long enough dw, especially with a good healer in your bacl. Now 20k deto is usually in group of 10, which is a relatively small train. And I'm sorry but the blob will benefit from deto change only if they fight another blob. In any other case this change is dangerous for them.

Talcyndl

Erondil wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

If you know how to you can survive long enough dw, especially with a good healer in your bacl. Now 20k deto is usually in group of 10, which is a relatively small train. And I'm sorry but the blob will benefit from deto change only if they fight another blob. In any other case this change is dangerous for them.

(1) You are not going to do those damage numbers to a blob group - or at least not to most of them. Unlike the random Pugs you may see inflated damage numbers against, they will have greater defensive abilities active and shields up.

(2) With the new changes, you are less likely to survive long enough to detonate. As mentioned, steel tornado is getting a damage increase (because, really it was underused before).

They needed to make significant changes to AoE (damage and heals) along with siege. They chickened out. So the Blob mentality will remain.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Talcyndl wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Let's see how many steel nados or magic dets blobs can sue once they get pelted by oil pults or lighting ballistes.

The Lightning Ballista effect is only 10% per tick. And since the "ticks" will be purged by the Blob groups, the effect will be minimal. The 20% Stamina hit from Oil Cats, might have a slight impact. But stam builds aren't going to be debilitated by it. Not to mention, the Blob groups will simply have one of their Templars slot Restoring Aura.

Still snared and they said in a few ESO lives ago siege weapons will NOT be purgable.

Erondil

Zheg wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

Agree that the number is not realistic. Most emps don't even hit that hard with prox det. Maybe the 20k is coming from hitting a poor unsuspecting dwemer pet.

No its not. In group I run a full damage build with < 1.4k regen, bosmer vampblade with somebody running spellpower and another powerfull assault. I hit often players for 17-18k, and a few over 20k every session of 2hrs+. If your magblade emp doesnt hit that hard then tbh his build doesnt fit his role.

Except, people wear impen in NA

You will not be getting those numbers on players that are actual threats to you. Powerful assault and spell power are not super secret buffs, other groups run them too, and a 20k prox det on a non emp against a pvper (that isn't a newb) is not realistic.

Because you think its different on EU?^^
Anyway I guess youre not going to change your mind, I will try to take a screenshot I ever remember about it! Also in a group of 8-12, 40 people are threats even if they are bad lol.

Talcyndl

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Still snared and they said in a few ESO lives ago siege weapons will NOT be purgable.

Err...the point of the thread is they wussed out on that plan. All siege DoT and otherwise persistent effects will remain purgeable.

Xsorus

Here is whats going to happen on live..

Groups are going to spam you with ID now...Most will be running Vicious Death set..once one of you dies..its going to set of a Chain of death and destruction.

Talcyndl

Xsorus wrote: »

Here is whats going to happen on live..

Groups are going to spam you with ID now...Most will be running Vicious Death set..once one of you dies..its going to set of a Chain of death and destruction.

I wonder if the proc on that requires the killing blow. If not, just having a few sorcs in the group wearing it will create a huge damage burst in the wake of any Blob group moving along.

Erondil

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

Talcyndl wrote: »

Erondil wrote: »

My deto can crit for over 20k when I hit 5+ people on a lightamour dude. Now image with 100% more damages instead of 25...

I think those kind of numbers are exceedingly rare. Are you currently able to run into a blob group and get a Prox Det off? Or are you killed by 10 Steel Tornados, etc. The Blobs will have MORE damage output with these changes.

If you know how to you can survive long enough dw, especially with a good healer in your bacl. Now 20k deto is usually in group of 10, which is a relatively small train. And I'm sorry but the blob will benefit from deto change only if they fight another blob. In any other case this change is dangerous for them.

(1) You are not going to do those damage numbers to a blob group - or at least not to most of them. Unlike the random Pugs you may see inflated damage numbers against, they will have greater defensive abilities active and shields up.

(2) With the new changes, you are less likely to survive long enough to detonate. As mentioned, steel tornado is getting a damage increase (because, really it was underused before).

They needed to make significant changes to AoE (damage and heals) along with siege. They chickened out. So the Blob mentality will remain.

(1) With the inc change you will be able to deal very very high damages on all of them if you hit over 10. Of course they will have greater defensive abilities, but they will have to be carefull and play more smartly. A smaller group will have more chances to win the fight if they are better players. Isnt that what we want and not an autowin because those 20 people decided to play in group?

(2)I personally see st change as a nerf, you can time your proxi (if you play skillfully, if you jump in yolo sure it wont work) to only be in range of ennemy aoe for a few seconds, and then you can survive with rolldodge/block/heals long enough to detonate. Its not an I win button nor a change in favour of the mindless pug zerg agaisnt the evil organised bombgroup (as unpurgeable siege would have been) thats for sure...but thats good imo

Talcyndl

Erondil wrote: »

Isnt that what we want and not an autowin because those 20 people decided to play in group?

I want the game to work. As it is right now, the game is not playable at primetime whenever two blob groups fight, or even when one blob group is surrounded by enough other players.

I'd be fine with a new passive effect in Cyrodiil that caused everyone in group that is stacked within 10 meters to explode after Steel Tornado, Prox Det and/or Purge is cast 5 or more times within 20 seconds.

Making them "slightly" more vulnerable isn't enough. If you want to group up great...balling up to take advantage of the current AoE system, and breaking the game in the process, shouldn't be acceptable. Grouping doesn't mean stacking.

Wheeler recognized this. But, as we've seen repeatedly, he doesn't have the pull to actually effect the needed changes.

Sanct16

Xsorus wrote: »

Here is whats going to happen on live..

Groups are going to spam you with ID now...Most will be running Vicious Death set..once one of you dies..its going to set of a Chain of death and destruction.

I think that Vicious Death will destroy zergballs tbh. Combined with the increased deto damage a small group can bomb the zergball and burst them, and if they kill some the Vicious Death procs will start a chain reaction.

Sanct16

Best part tho is that they will get way less Ap than smaller groups.

Talcyndl

Sanct16 wrote: »

Best part tho is that they will get way less Ap [per kill] than smaller groups.

FYP

driosketch

Am I reading inevitable's note right? It will now go off early if you purge it?

With the other combined changes, I don't think it will be worth it to slot purge at all. Going to have to teach people to hit x on purifying ritual instead.

Sanct16

Talcyndl wrote: »

Sanct16 wrote: »

Best part tho is that they will get way less Ap [per kill] than smaller groups.

FYP

No way a 24 man group will be able to keep up in Ap gains with a good 6 man after the patch.

Wollust

Don't forget the changes to the leveling up of the Assault skill lines. From what I have seen on Syphers stream you need now only 220k from Assault Rank 9 to 10.

That means every scrubzerg and their mothers will have detonation from now on.