Enable siege in sewers

Alucardo

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Fengrush, I've stood by you and agreed with a lot of things you've said, but siege in the sewers? Come on man wtf. I go to the IC to get away from that crap. I know AOE caps are bad, but they be messing with your wiring.

P.S. The dishonourable duel made me laugh so hard I think I snorted.

Read the last reply! Some already got this - I cant just make ANOTHER aoe caps thread. Sometimes you have to do it a little differently.

Ahem, yes. Well, I figured it was something like that.

To Fengrush's stream viewers, let us all create AOE cap threads every day until ZOS finally give in and remove them. BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE BICEPS, LET US UNITE

Didgerion

Alucardo wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Fengrush, I've stood by you and agreed with a lot of things you've said, but siege in the sewers? Come on man wtf. I go to the IC to get away from that crap. I know AOE caps are bad, but they be messing with your wiring.

P.S. The dishonourable duel made me laugh so hard I think I snorted.

Read the last reply! Some already got this - I cant just make ANOTHER aoe caps thread. Sometimes you have to do it a little differently.

Ahem, yes. Well, I figured it was something like that.

To Fengrush's stream viewers, let us all create AOE cap threads every day until ZOS finally give in and remove them. BROTHERS AND SISTERS OF THE BICEPS, LET US UNITE

I'll tell you exactly when AOE caps are going to be removed:
When the deers will be back in Cyrodiil then AOE caps will go away.....

FMonk

Zheg wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Because it's totally realistic for people to set up siege engines in underground sewer tunnels.

We need AoE caps removed. Fengrush knows that's the point of this post, not to get siege enabled in the sewers. He's drawing us in with the drama he's gotten himself known for.

Get yourself some pocket proxidetors dude. Join the zerg. Beeee the zeeerrrg.

Pretty much (and I cant just make another remove AOE caps thread, theyd be directed to Wrobels forum which has a total of like 3 posts ever from him) - its just the whole 'siege is the answer' logic doesnt work in the only PVP DLC which often has the same issue you can face out in cyro.


need to go!

Siege is and always has been a dumb answer. I'd get on board for removing aoe caps since it's a weird artificial mechanic, but the caveat I'd want implemented would still probably be just as frustrating to you. If you remove aoe caps and allow a situation where 2-3 can wipe 16+ (even if they're bad, and I know there are a lot of groups like that), that doesn't just apply to your small man group. It really would just melt everyone trying to siege a keep and have larger scale fights, which is and always has been the emphasis for cyrodiil. So, the caveat I'd want in tandem with an aoe cap removal is a better balancing of the meta to stop some of the ridiculous damage numbers that are possible with a simple prox det + ult dump (and if that were implemented properly, you still wouldn't be able to wipe that group of 16 with 2-3 any easier, which has been your main gripe to begin with).

Just seems like a never-ending strawman argument to me. You want aoe caps removed, but doing that without also addressing the damage numbers would be moronic, and if they were addressed, you'd be back to square one and still struggling to wipe that many with so few.

On a side note, people still go to the sewers? o.O

If the 16+ aren't all standing on top of each other within the radius of one aoe ult bomb, they won't get wiped. That's the entire point of removing aoe caps, forcing people to spread out. There used to be group play in this game that wasn't 100% focused on stacking in a ball all the time, but changes to mechanics have devolved group play to its current state.

FENGRUSH

FMonk wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Because it's totally realistic for people to set up siege engines in underground sewer tunnels.

We need AoE caps removed. Fengrush knows that's the point of this post, not to get siege enabled in the sewers. He's drawing us in with the drama he's gotten himself known for.

Get yourself some pocket proxidetors dude. Join the zerg. Beeee the zeeerrrg.

Pretty much (and I cant just make another remove AOE caps thread, theyd be directed to Wrobels forum which has a total of like 3 posts ever from him) - its just the whole 'siege is the answer' logic doesnt work in the only PVP DLC which often has the same issue you can face out in cyro.


need to go!

Siege is and always has been a dumb answer. I'd get on board for removing aoe caps since it's a weird artificial mechanic, but the caveat I'd want implemented would still probably be just as frustrating to you. If you remove aoe caps and allow a situation where 2-3 can wipe 16+ (even if they're bad, and I know there are a lot of groups like that), that doesn't just apply to your small man group. It really would just melt everyone trying to siege a keep and have larger scale fights, which is and always has been the emphasis for cyrodiil. So, the caveat I'd want in tandem with an aoe cap removal is a better balancing of the meta to stop some of the ridiculous damage numbers that are possible with a simple prox det + ult dump (and if that were implemented properly, you still wouldn't be able to wipe that group of 16 with 2-3 any easier, which has been your main gripe to begin with).

Just seems like a never-ending strawman argument to me. You want aoe caps removed, but doing that without also addressing the damage numbers would be moronic, and if they were addressed, you'd be back to square one and still struggling to wipe that many with so few.

On a side note, people still go to the sewers? o.O

If the 16+ aren't all standing on top of each other within the radius of one aoe ult bomb, they won't get wiped. That's the entire point of removing aoe caps, forcing people to spread out. There used to be group play in this game that wasn't 100% focused on stacking in a ball all the time, but changes to mechanics have devolved group play to its current state.

Nailed it - if you want to go all in on a ball formation, beware of danger. Oh wait, theres no danger, actually - theres the best damage mitigation in the game available to you.

Zheg

FENGRUSH wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

KenaPKK wrote: »

Because it's totally realistic for people to set up siege engines in underground sewer tunnels.

We need AoE caps removed. Fengrush knows that's the point of this post, not to get siege enabled in the sewers. He's drawing us in with the drama he's gotten himself known for.

Get yourself some pocket proxidetors dude. Join the zerg. Beeee the zeeerrrg.

Pretty much (and I cant just make another remove AOE caps thread, theyd be directed to Wrobels forum which has a total of like 3 posts ever from him) - its just the whole 'siege is the answer' logic doesnt work in the only PVP DLC which often has the same issue you can face out in cyro.


need to go!

Siege is and always has been a dumb answer. I'd get on board for removing aoe caps since it's a weird artificial mechanic, but the caveat I'd want implemented would still probably be just as frustrating to you. If you remove aoe caps and allow a situation where 2-3 can wipe 16+ (even if they're bad, and I know there are a lot of groups like that), that doesn't just apply to your small man group. It really would just melt everyone trying to siege a keep and have larger scale fights, which is and always has been the emphasis for cyrodiil. So, the caveat I'd want in tandem with an aoe cap removal is a better balancing of the meta to stop some of the ridiculous damage numbers that are possible with a simple prox det + ult dump (and if that were implemented properly, you still wouldn't be able to wipe that group of 16 with 2-3 any easier, which has been your main gripe to begin with).

Just seems like a never-ending strawman argument to me. You want aoe caps removed, but doing that without also addressing the damage numbers would be moronic, and if they were addressed, you'd be back to square one and still struggling to wipe that many with so few.

On a side note, people still go to the sewers? o.O

If the 16+ aren't all standing on top of each other within the radius of one aoe ult bomb, they won't get wiped. That's the entire point of removing aoe caps, forcing people to spread out. There used to be group play in this game that wasn't 100% focused on stacking in a ball all the time, but changes to mechanics have devolved group play to its current state.

Nailed it - if you want to go all in on a ball formation, beware of danger. Oh wait, theres no danger, actually - theres the best damage mitigation in the game available to you.

You guys can keep parroting the same line over and over, it doesn't mean all of the other details you're ignoring in your argument are suddenly moot. Very, very few groups are even capable of all remaining within 10m of eachother during combat, and that's the radius you'd be talking about to be in a single ball for an ult dump.

You say there's no danger, that's because you don't have experience playing in larger groups. Yes, you've run with kholes recently, but they tend to run smaller, play looser, and rely on the fact that each player in the group is a superb individual player rather than rely on group mechanics. When your group is facing 60+ opponents, alone, and assaulting a keep, being in a ball helps for dmg dumps because of aoe caps, but it also has the drawback of making you a glaring target for stealth bombs, siege, and attacks in general. Most of the time when you see opposing forces come in with a coordinated bomb and you aren't in a position to kite it, you spread and avoid the damage, or you ball and turtle - which only works with negates/novas/barrier - whether aoe caps are there or not (and most of the time the correct option is to spread).

Again, I think aoe caps are bizarre as a game mechanic, but you take them away (without doing anything else balance wise) and every single regular keep fight (with or without the boogeyman ball groups) means people will just melt even quicker, particularly when coupled with the siege changes coming. Do you honestly think that aoe caps should be removed and damage numbers left untouched, and the current mitigation tools in place left as is? I think that will speak volumes for how realistic you are about what you're asking for, and how much insight you actually have into pvp as a whole and not just a piece of it.

Again, not arguing FOR aoe caps, I'm trying to get the parrots to actually start talking about what needs to be done to counter for the incredibly reduced TTK that will result from the removal. Even when you're small manning or solo, when you go to a big keep fight, most of the time you're benefiting from the cap and getting a longer TTK as a result, whether or not you realize it.