Fix Riding Lessons

ContraTempo

Dear ESO,

Your goal with rider training is for it to be a gold sink and a time sink, I understand that. And I know you think it drives sales in your Crown Store. But it also increases the frustration level of players WITHOUT increasing the entertainment value. I hope you have realized by now that the reasons players leave are frustration and boredom. If you can't keep those to a reasonable level you lose a lot of the people you could have kept.

I'm actually in favor of you making money, especially in the Crown Store where spending is voluntary because I know it finances new content, fixes, and support. But I think you have pushed the time sink too far and priced the Crown cost too high. At a choice WITH EACH CHARACTER of waiting 180 days and spending 45,000 gold, or spending at least $137.50 this becomes a real point of annoyance for the vast majority of players, i.e. all of us who don't a spare $1,100.00 to boost all of our characters up to this level.

So, here is my business proposal:
1. Let us train in ALL 3 riding disciplines each day. Keep the gold cost the same (so it becomes 750 gold per day). Thus we CAN improve it much more quickly, but only if we quest and grind like heck for the gold. That's 60 days of concentrated effort instead of 180 days of frustration and 5 minute logons.
2. Make Crown Store riding lessons increase all 3 stats instead of just 1. Yes, I know this would be a bargain since it includes the storage space. THAT will help drive the sales. And remember, it maxes out at 60 spaces so you can still sell plenty of other storage. At this price someone who only has $20 to spend in a character can still improve their riding a meaningful amount.

Keep more players and keep them more active, sell lots more riding lessons, have your uses be happier with the game. That's 4 wins.

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert , horse training (along with alliance rank skills i may add) are 2 of the biggest barriers that make players unhappy about starting alternate characters.

Julianos

I would buy tri riding lessons but separete just no !

Solid_Metal

riding lesson should not exist in the first place, unecessary grinding...

EnemyOfDaState

Yeah it's a pointless money/time sink. Your ridding skill should level up the same as the other skills, by actually doing it.

Taryf

1. That is quite resonable

AlnilamE

They should revert it to how it was before where the max was 60 and you had to pick what you wanted to level instead of leveling everything.

Seriously, why does anyone need a fully maxed horse right away? And I say that as someone who has maxed out horses on all their characters, including the lowbies.

Pick the stat that's most important for you and work on that. Don't worry about the others. If you really want everything, park your alt in a convenient location and make sure to train regularly even if you are not otherwise playing that character.

ContraTempo

AlnilamE wrote: »

Seriously, why does anyone need a fully maxed horse right away? And I say that as someone who has maxed out horses on all their characters, including the lowbies.

Because it's frustrating to plod along when your goal is to get where you are going. Especially if you already have a leveled character and are starting an alt. And yes, even if you do use wayshrines, much of the time you still have to ride or run. But no one is talking about lvl 3 characters being able to train up their riding in a day (unless they spend Crowns). No, it would still take two months and any active player will be ready for Cyrodyl (where you really must have speed) well before that.

Pick the stat that's most important for you and work on that. Don't worry about the others. If you really want everything, park your alt in a convenient location and make sure to train regularly even if you are not otherwise playing that character.

Speed and stamina play off each other. Speed but no stam means you can run very fast for about 20 seconds. Stamina but no speed means you can run slowly for a long time. Neither achieves the goal of getting from point A to point B without a long, slow ride.
EDIT: The paragraph above is incorrect. @Adarklore correctly pointed out that stamina works differently when mounted. A mount can still run when out of stamina, but if you are hit after that you will fall off. Thanks for the correction.

Taternater

You know, I don't think players are leaving because they think horse training takes too long?

ContraTempo

Solid_Metal wrote: »

riding lesson should not exist in the first place, unecessary grinding...

I get what you are saying and as a player I feel that way. But to ESO it's a money maker. They won't just let that go. So this proposal is an alternate way for them to get value back from this while making things a little better for us.

Gidorick

I'm usually one to argue against these suggestions but I think this is a fair suggestion. One of each lesson per day... why not?

DannyLV702

Yesssssss I'm struggling hard af right now with my new NB in Cyrodiil!! I have to run everywhere!!

MikeB

Taternater wrote: »

You know, I don't think players are leaving because they think horse training takes too long?

You would be wrong. It may not be the main reason but it is a contributing factor.

ContraTempo

Taternater wrote: »

You know, I don't think players are leaving because they think horse training takes too long?

IMO it add significantly to the frustration, and frustration and boredom are the reasons players leave.

I am not claiming there is a max exodus from ESO; from what I understand they are doing quite well and growing. But we see the goodbyes here on the forums all the time, so we know ESO could be retaining more players than they are.

Whatzituyah

I to get frustrated by this its what drives me away from this game.

Twilix01

I like that you say they should be fixed, when there's nothing inherently broken about them, you (and admittedly many others) just don't like how long it takes to max out. As far as "Fixing" goes, it's working as intended.

Jaronking

To tell you guys the truth lately it seems like my hpurse have gotten slower.Am starting to think nerfed house speed so more people will buy the mount training.They need to fix it so it's not so much of a grind and help people get back into the action.

Whatzituyah

Twilix01 wrote: »

I like that you say they should be fixed, when there's nothing inherently broken about them, you (and admittedly many others) just don't like how long it takes to max out. As far as "Fixing" goes, it's working as intended.

It may not be "broken" but it is annoying we should beable to upgrade them just like with backpacks and banks with no cooldown but yet we have to use money to do it quickly. Now I know its part of their profits but in PvP it gives an advantage because speed and staying on your mount longer can determine whether you live or die by another player. I am already pay for ESO+ so I am not playing just for free.

ContraTempo

Twilix01 wrote: »

I like that you say they should be fixed, when there's nothing inherently broken about them, you (and admittedly many others) just don't like how long it takes to max out. As far as "Fixing" goes, it's working as intended.

If the intent is to retain players and it's doing the opposite, that's broken.

CherryCake

Yes! I just started a new character (and with my old one, I wasnt able to buy a horse as soon as I wanted to, so my horse is still slow) and it is annoying not being able to train two or three lessons at once... especially because bag upgrades are very expensive, I hoped to rely on horse bag upgrades but...I also want him to be fast...

ADarklore

ContraTempo wrote: »

Speed and stamina play off each other. Speed but no stam means you can run very fast for about 20 seconds. Stamina but no speed means you can run slowly for a long time. Neither achieves the goal of getting from point A to point B without a long, slow ride.

Apparently you don't know that Stamina has nothing to do with Speed on a mount... Stamina only effects the amount of damage it takes to knock you off your mount. When you run on a mount, your Stamina depletes to the point of making you more vulnerable to an instant knock-off... but with more Stamina you can run longer and have less vulnerability to knock-offs. Unlike with how Stamina effects a player, it works differently with a mount... Stamina effects how long a player can sprint, while Stamina on a mount only applies to knock-off vulnerability.

With that being said, a character in ESO is meant to be a long-term investment, hence the reason riding skills are also long-term investments. But if you are a player who creates and deletes characters frequently, then this could become a problem, but that is also the player's CHOICE to create new characters, not ZOS'. This will be less of an issue when we finally get the 'Barbershop' so we can make changes to existing characters, but until then, our only choice in making changes is to create new characters and start over. Is ZOS 'alt friendly', no... but again, I've seen other MMOs that are even less so.

nine9six

Remember when you accidently fed one of your mounts the wrong food and had to put it down? Never forget.

WalkingLegacy

Worst way to train your horse in any game period.

ContraTempo

ADarklore wrote: »

Apparently you don't know that Stamina has nothing to do with Speed on a mount... Stamina only effects the amount of damage it takes to knock you off your mount.

No, I had not realized that. Helpful info, thanks.

With that being said, a character in ESO is meant to be a long-term investment

I realize we have different levels of grind we feel is reasonable to invest for a given payoff. The more limited your gaming time the less of it you will want to invest in grinds and time sinks.

There is nothing magical, sacred, or scientific about the balance ZoS has chosen. It was just a guess. I'm saying I think they got the balance wrong and suggesting a correction. What's more, it would be a correction you would be free to ignore if you wish. Want to "go slow"? Just choose to only train up one riding skill a day. You get to keep doing what you do while others get to do what they want. How is that a loss for you?

A lot of us have limited game time available and the more that is spent in time sumps, the less quality game time we get to enjoy.

Mojmir

Riding lessons should level with the character, 2% per lvl.by lvl 20 you can be on your way quite well

Runs

I'm fine with it taking the 180 days for each character to max out. I am fine with it costing the gold. What bothers me is having to log each character every day to do it. I would rather just pay it all off and let my skill go up 1 per day automatically.

But at this point, unless they give us a new class, it no longer matters to me. I only have 13 days left and 7 of my 8 characters will be maxed. I think the 8th has 10 or so more days than the rest.

Alorier

Easy plan ahead I'm going to be making a Stam Templar all I do atm is log on a do the horse training while I level up my other toons

babylon

I raised all my alts simultaneously...when I got back to game last week all of them had at least 2/3 of the riding traits near maxed, others have all 3 near maxed.

My main beef with the Crown Store is the cost of bag and bank space...I'd add that to your list of overpriced things both in the game with gold and in the Crown Store.

Duiwel

A - I doubt players are leaving because of this so that is exaggeration.

For the people who don't like the grind they can just go to Cyrodil and get Rapid Maneuver at level 10.

If however they are complaining about gaining bag slots ? Then I am pretty sure the devs are going:



Just be grateful that mounts are now account bound and that you can upgrade to 180.

As for your crown store suggestion I honestly believe 1 bag slot upgrade should be 3000 crowns it should not be pay to win, players who can buy bag space have more in game gold than those who spend it for bag space. It should not even be in the crown store to begin with. Crown store should be cosmetic only, mounts, pets, costumes, maybe exp scrolls & Mara rings. That's it.

I deleted a lvl 3 alt who had 120 riding skill on Friday and I am not even complaining because MMO's are like life, there are things we like and things we don't like. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like in order to receive /achieve things we do like.

bountyspiter

ContraTempo wrote: »

So, here is my business proposal:
1. Let us train in ALL 3 riding disciplines each day. Keep the gold cost the same (so it becomes 750 gold per day). Thus we CAN improve it much more quickly, but only if we quest and grind like heck for the gold. That's 60 days of concentrated effort instead of 180 days of frustration and 5 minute logons.

Grind like heck for 750g??????????????????????????????????????
If you need to do that, then I totaly understand your frustration. The universe conspired so that you NEVER have fun in this game. I mean, really now...It would take you years upon years of endless, miserable and painfull grinding for 750 gold...

And the time...Ohhhh man the time you need to raise the damn thing right????????????????????
180 days of boredom and misery and frustration while you w8 for that timer to reset right next to your favorite stable master correct? As if you cant do anything else meanwhile. In a "mmo" game where 180 days is considered just the early launch period??? And to be fair, its not even 180 days because the timer resets with a 20 hours rate.

So really, I dont wanna be rude, but you probably need to uninstall this game if 750 gold seem to you like this big of a deal. Go play pacman or something

Thornen

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert , horse training (along with alliance rank skills i may add) are 2 of the biggest barriers that make players unhappy about starting alternate characters.

100% this.