Currency Based Loot System (please Zos read when your able)

Stormyla · January 2016

Doom and gloom first better things to come I swear ZOS

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So as many of you if not all of you have come into the situation of despair when it comes to the rng and loot I feel like I have to break my stay away from the forums there be trolls rule. Many have cleared Malestrom Arena many times and never walked out of there with out the one piece you want and if you do get it it has training on it (just an example to prove the point) farming helms can be treacherous to your sanity and those of you who have farmed up a full set of spell power cure and scathing know the struggle of the VWGT and VICP farming. Im in a deep love affair with this game dont judge

but sometimes I feel like there is no light at the end of the tunnel and i truly believe that getting gear together should not leave you feeling defeated by chance and that your skill has no impact on your reward. So onto the lighter more constructive things.

I am a member of many guilds and I run a pve guild and as a tank I get asked to run a lot of content with a large amount of people and take that chance to talk to them about this topic and from no one have I heard this is a bad idea or a none workable idea. To the lovelies at ZOS Im not saying make it so after 3 runs we get all the gear it takes the replay of your beautiful game away and that accomplishment feeling but please give us some hope please we beg you. I and many others feel like this could be incorporated into the game and not be game breaking and I say this with out any lies I would rather run something 50 times and know I would get the piece I want with the trait I want then get "lucky" and get a well fitted spell cure helm.

My idea on how to incorporate this into the game~
There is already a beautiful lore base npc's and with IC came the currency tabs... the idea is to make undaunted have a currency and use the undaunted areas that already exist and the vendor thats already there to use your undaunted tokens to buy things. I would make it so undaunted dailies give from the gold 5 tokens the silver 2 and have the items range from 50-100 tokens each depending on size or what ever you see fit really and have the items that are bought in this fashion bind on pick up so people have to put in the work to get ze goodies. As to the preexisting undaunted chests I would like to see them still used because its a fun idea but this is where you get your rng roll in... roll for the item the trait and so on but make these items bind on equip because pvp guys need some love to as do the many people who make alts upon alts. I dont think you should buy this with AP because it is a pve currency If you are worried about having too many items in one npc there are many ways around that and enough npcs already there to use but I trust in your intelligence ZOS

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To the community and ZOS I pose these questions I realize there will be trolls, people just out to exploit it and make a buck but I hope enough of you voice constructive opinions so we can help with the health of a game that is so breathtakingly beautiful with a combat style that is one of a kind please be nice lovelies ~

Do you think this is fair is so why if not why not?

How would you like to see this incorporated into the game?

Do you think bought items should be Bind on pick up or bind on equip?

How much should these items cost?

How may tokens should you get for gold and silver pledges?

Should this currency be account based or character based?

Would you like to see it as a currency or a trophy and have vaults?

PvP guys how do you feel about this? (oh gawd im about to be shot

)

Do you think monster sets ie helms and shoulder pieces should be sold this way or do you think you should still have to farm them?

How do you think this will impact the game as a whole and your experience with it?

Am I insane for asking this?

Have I missed anything?

Should you get extra currency or something for using the group finder?

Finally Is this a good idea or something that would make you enjoy your time in ESO more?

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Maddux wrote: »

I find random traits (and armor weights) quite annoying and it would be nice to see a way to pay an npc to "scrub" off a trait and put your preferred one at least, not sure if the same would work well for armor weight, but I currently find things like monster sets a bit too grindy to get your preferred combination.
It would help a lot if we could loot "Piece of XXX Chest/Legs/whatever", bring it to a Vendor and craft it to the Armorpart in the Armorclass and with the Trait we need. There is still the RNG that you need to loot the Chest if you wanna craft a Chest but the RNG to get the Piece you need from Surge, SPC or other Sets in the right Trait is horrible.
Idk how many Runs i had through vWGT until i had 5 different Pieces SPC in Divines and i still just have 3 different Pieces Surge in Divines.

this would work

Necrelios · January 2016

I think in addition to a token system, they need to introduce a "Trait Changing" table, where you can convert any piece of gear to a trait your have already researched. It could require just as many materials as to craft a new item if it's the time sink they're worried about.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

I find my life is much better when I do what Stormy says. My 2 Cents:

The loot system as currently implemented will be the death of this game. Anyone that has played an RPG or MMO is familiar with the almighty RNGesus. For some things, it is the simplest and most elegant solution. For others, it is a lazy and cheap workaround to try and encourage people to replay content. There are better ways, and a token system like this is a perfect. I am for any solution/system that allows people to work towards a goal. It should not be easy, but there should be a path to get what you want.

I just finished a very frustrating quest with WGT. I am done with that place. My quest for spell power cure went as follows: 6 shoulder drops over the course of a month or two, 6 chest drops over another month or so. Finally, after a solid 3 weeks of grinding that place until my eyes bled, I got breaches, then gloves, then belt and helm in same run. I have 16 pieces total, 4 pieces are divines (but 3 are chests). I essentially have one usable BIS piece if I want to run monster sets. It this rate, it would take me another year of nothing but vWGTto get the traits I want. It could also happen in 2 runs; it could also never happen, and that is the fundamental flaw.

My set is good enough, but it has left a bad taste in my mouth. Can I trade the two amazing Divines chest pieces in my bank? Nope. Can I sell them or give them to a buddy? Nope again. I have zero incentive to run this dungeon at this point. Now if I could trade or sell? I would be back at it. I am debating if I want to start the same thing with ICP for Scathing. I cant say i am very excited about it.

I am already about done with Maelstrom as well. We jokingly refer to that place as "detention" or "the principal's office". I have only been clearing for a few weeks, but I already have double drops of weapons. If you told me that 10 or 20 runs would get me a piece of my choosing, I would be in there everyday. As it stands now, I have to psych myself up to post a leader board run.

ZOS, I implore you. Address the loot system in this game. This game is amazing on so many levels, but the loot system is the fatal flaw. There are so many good ideas: token system, Bind on Group, trading of like items, BoE. Almost anything is better than the status quo.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2016

Necrelios wrote: »

I think in addition to a token system, they need to introduce a "Trait Changing" table, where you can convert any piece of gear to a trait your have already researched. It could require just as many materials as to craft a new item if it's the time sink they're worried about.

I was talking about this the other day. What if lets say you wanted to take a well-fitted piece and convert to divines. It would take a handful of tempers and mats, but it would also require like 50-100 sapphires. It would actually make them worth something. Kind of silly that people destroy stacks of "precious jewels" because they are essentially worthless.

brent_ellisonb14_ESO · January 2016

I agree with Stormyla and Oreyn - ZOS please make improvements to the loot system a priority. The chance of getting something I actually want from vet dungeons and trials is so bad that I've stopped doing them.

capricorn152245ub17_ESO · January 2016

Do you think this is fair is so why if not why not?
I think this sounds fair. No one of whom I have ever been in contact in the game has ever said they feel the RNG in its current state is fair. No one wants to run content 100 times to be at the mercy of a weight RNG and a trait RNG (e.g. the Valkyn Skoria helm). I like really good gear being really difficult to get, but having to complete very difficult content once and having a good shot at good equipment, and having to complete medium difficult content 100 times are not the same thing. Nor is there any control over what kinds of equipment you may get. Back when vDSA was the hardest four man content in the game, you could complete 5 times and never get a master weapon, complete five more times and end up with two to three pieces that aren't even suited to your role.

How would you like to see this incorporated into the game?
I think your outline of how it could work sounds like the easiest to implement without making a headache for the devs or the players. Just reward tokens as gold and silver keys are awarded now.

Do you think bought items should be Bind on pick up or bind on equip?
I am of two minds as far as this point goes. In its current state, the economy could desperately use more liquidity, and this would be a way to inject cash back into the economy. However, it defeats what seems to be the developer's goals of getting people to have to earn the gear themselves, where I somewhat see their point. If we assume this change existed in a vacuum, i.e. with no other changes to the game or economy, I would prefer to see Bind on Equip rather than Bind on Pick Up.

How much should these items cost? How may tokens should you get for gold and silver pledges?
These seem like very interrelated questions to me, so I'll answer at once. It seems reasonable to expect people to run the content a number of times to earn the equipment. The current Undaunted experience (for the skill line) is 10 for a Silver, and 20 for a Gold, and this seems like a reasonable number for the tokens as well (Hell, make life easy and just say they're one in the same). At that rate, maybe 300 or 600 tokens. However, if they are BoP, I would make them 300, and if they could be sold, 600 or 900.

Should this currency be account based or character based?
Account based. If no other reason than way too much is character bound anyhow, and ZoS is making good sport of getting people to repeat things that were marginally enjoyable the first time, tedious by the third, and painful by the fourth, by way of creating alt characters.

Would you like to see it as a currency or a trophy and have vaults?
Currency is the most convenient for development and implementation on both ends. I think the whole of Tamriel is gunshy on vaults since the pains of Imperial City and trying to get Agility set pieces in favourable traits, which is then repeated in the loot drops of vWGT and vICP.

PvP guys how do you feel about this? (oh gawd im about to be shot )
I do both about evenly of late, and perhaps that colours my answer. Gold is exceedingly difficult to earn in PvP. AP is impossible to earn in PvE. My take on it is this: if Monster Helms are indeed coming available for sale and payable in AP, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander, and PvP sets should then be available for gold.

I recognise this removes a way for PvPers to make gold (which is not acceptable). But in its current state, there is no way to earn AP doing anything but PvP. I would hope ZoS implements a system where you can use one or the other, or trade one or the other directly (and fairly), however I see the can of worms that would entail. It might behoove them to pair their economic decisions with their reward systems. By this I mean: it seems of late Gold Tempers are harder to obtain through refining of raw materials. If this was a deliberate choice on the Devs' part, fine, and I understand that everyone having gold equipment isn't exactly ideal. However, as an example this illustrates a place wherein ZoS could make a number of things more attractive (like running Pledges or getting on the Leader Boards). Since this has effectively made Tempering Alloys 8k gold, maybe instead of sending 624 gold and a decon item (which is also RNG), through Rewards for the Worthy or Weekly Leader Board Rewards, send 4 tempering alloy or something?

I won't propose to have a solution to the economic woes facing Tamriel at present, but I don't believe barring PvP people and PvE people from buying equipment from their respective realms stimulates the economy or even creates one with any kind of natural flow.

Do you think monster sets ie helms and shoulder pieces should be sold this way or do you think you should still have to farm them?
I believe I have answered above.

How do you think this will impact the game as a whole and your experience with it?
It would make the game feel like less of a chore. It would bring back a core value of MMOs, which is progression. I work toward something. Something tangible. Something finite. There were a few sets I wanted to try from the vet dungeons that came with Imperial City DLC. Do you know how I dealt with the RNG drop rates after farming them for a while? I just gave up wanting them. Problem solved. But that isn't anything anyone should want to hear from an MMO player. Ever.

Am I insane for asking this?
I think it'd be more insane to go down the road of farming everything you want in the game in its current state of RNG-based loot drops.

Have I missed anything?
I don't believe so.

Should you get extra currency or something for using the group finder?
I've no truck with this. Currently many people still eschew the group finder, and so we have people spamming zone to find dungeon mates. Until people are tempted into trying it, the situation is neigh on never going to improve.

TL;DR: this is a good proposal and has the potential to fix some of the problems the game is facing at present.

Mojmir · January 2016

basically reforging/rerolling, we had a similar system in UO

pietrolax11b14_ESO · January 2016

How do you think this will impact the game as a whole and your experience with it?

I think this could impact the game in a very positive way. I find myself farming for days on end just to get certain loot. Because of the drop rate I can't enjoy other aspects of the game as much as I'd like. By the time the next update is released, I still haven't been able to get what I've been farming all that time. I think the drop rate is ridiculous as I'm one of many who have gone through VWGT and didn't get one named piece for maybe 6 runs. I've been farming VWGT since it was released and still find myself not getting an Imperium chest piece to complete my set.

Every other question that Stormyla asked are valid as well. i think they need to be considered for the future of this game.

IcyDeadPeople · January 2016

Agree that it can be frustrating farming certain sets.

In my case, I have limited time to play and don't enjoy running PVE dungeons over and over. Instead, I try to develop builds using a combination of sets you can craft or purchase from guild trader.

khele23eb17_ESO · January 2016

Its simple - RNG isnt fair. RNG is random. RNG basically guarantees that there will be people constantly screwed out of rewards they want. It guarantees some people will leave the game pissed off and spread the word about the 'PoS loot system' discouraging others from ever playing.

Tokens and some sort of trait reforging system would solve the problem. If done right the time-sink aspect would be retained but the frustration and unfairness would be removed.

capricorn152245ub17_ESO · January 2016

khele23eb17_ESO wrote: »

Its simple - RNG isnt fair. RNG is random. RNG basically guarantees that there will be people constantly screwed out of rewards they want. It guarantees some people will leave the game pissed off and spread the word about the 'PoS loot system' discouraging others from ever playing.

Tokens and some sort of trait reforging system would solve the problem. If done right the time-sink aspect would be retained but the frustration and unfairness would be removed.

God, yeah trait reforging would also take a lot of sting out of the RNG-based loot system.

Iove · January 2016

+1 to all of the above

Miraculous · February 2016

Agreed.

MrDerrikk · February 2016

Hmm, I'm surprised @Sausage hasn't come here yet to rain on your parade; so far as I remember, he's the only one who was against the idea last time I saw it discussed. An alternate view can sometimes be good for discussion, so I summon him/her!

Mojmir · February 2016

I had an idea for "rerolling" traits in another thread:
what if we had something like this?

Players can now exchange a item for a "rerolled" trait.everytime a reroll is attempted a cumulative 5% chance the item is destroyed in the process.

Stormyla · February 2016

Mojmir wrote: »

I had an idea for "rerolling" traits in another thread:
what if we had something like this?
Players can now exchange a item for a "rerolled" trait. every time a reroll is attempted a cumulative 5% chance the item is destroyed in the process.

Great idea let me say that first but my only problem is for instant I have an amazing godly tank for our trials groups and he above everything wanted the Imperium set as a NB ran VWGT constantly with many guilds and ended up rage quitting tanking because he could not pick up the boots after multi drops of every other piece. Theres the horror stories of MSA where you get none of what you want and spend the gold on pots repairs and time in detention. The point is even getting the piece you want in a *** trait is painful. As the current loot table stands RNG is the ultimate boss of this game and its OP

if they were to remove some items from the loot tables that could make the things a little bit less infuriating but I feel like this is pve's lag issue. By that I mean in pvp the lag is halting enjoyment this is our version and honestly I feel like this issue has been going on so long that a band aid of changing the loot tables isnt enough.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please i love this game I try my hardest to keep the vibe of my guildies upbeat but its gotten to the point that when one of them gets something the others are like yeah gratz but the tone is all f u game or worse f u guildie I fear the day when it turns truly toxic just because of loot drops and once that happens theres really no going back please please hear us please. I love progressing though stages of the game but this isnt progression when people stop wanting them or running them because of the mythical loot drop.

Stormyla · February 2016

Also I feel its gotten to the point where I can no longer enjoy those mythical times of loot drop because the members in the run want something I get and have been farming for the last month for it linking it or enjoying it with your group is like a kick in the gonads to the people who want it. It creates an aura of resentment which I cant blame them for nor do I have as a guild master something to cheer them up with nor can I trade them the item event being able to trade the items with other people in the run would be better then have them bind as soon as the person carrying them has left or the groups disbanded but honestly that all sounds like a hell of a hassle on ZOS's and the K.I.S.S policy seems a better way forward. Like @capricorn152245ub17_ESO said this currency based loot systems seems like less of a headache for both DEVS and players.

khele23eb17_ESO · February 2016

OR they could have both. The RNG system they have now and a token based safety net for people who are unlucky.

Sausage · February 2016

MrDerrikk wrote: »

Hmm, I'm surprised @Sausage hasn't come here yet to rain on your parade; so far as I remember, he's the only one who was against the idea last time I saw it discussed. An alternate view can sometimes be good for discussion, so I summon him/her!

Im not against ideas, I just think out of the box and create coversation, well Im not even thinking out of the box, Ive 15+ year experience of MMORPGs, but anyway so Zen can make the best possible choice, we have no power here, devs always make the choice, thats how it works guys.

I dont like tokens system, I played Rift with Token system and eventually people want to merge them anyway, you have hundred of different tokens, they need to value each of them etc, its much smarter just go one currency like PVPers have AP, especially when ESO's population is low, simpler system is the best solution.

ESO needs streamlining, not half dozen fancy system what confuses players even more.

SirLorwyvrn · February 2016

Do you think this is fair is so why if not why not?
I think this is more than fair PvP already has basically this with AP they put in time they know a lot of the time it's going to take weeks possibly longer for them to get the gear they want but they KNOW they're eventually going to get it. There is also Tel Var stones you can go into the IC collect enough stones and buy exactly what you want. It's a bit silly PvE is the one instance in this game this is left out of.

How would you like to see this incorporated into the game?
How Stormyla has is listed out here would be perfect instead of keys have some type of currency drop gold pledge gives most silver gives less and bronze gives least. you could also incorporate dropping small amount of currency regardless of runs on the last boss of dungeons like the Laurel. Then you replace the chests/tent area with a shoppe that has various vendors for all the gear. you could even keep it exactly where it is now no need to move it or make a new zone for it.

Do you think bought items should be Bind on pick up or bind on equip?
Honestly I think it depends on the item I believe that some things should be BoE because most items that come out of PvP or Imperial City are PoE and prove to be a good source of revenue for the players who can earn the AP/TV stones and it's only fair that PvE has an opportunity to make gold just like the PvPers do. on the other hand there are just some thing in this game that you should not be able to just buy with gold some amount of effort in running whatever content to earn said item. All I know for certain is they should not all be BoP it makes getting gear that comes out of PvE instnaces nearly impossible.

How much should these items cost?
It would entirely depend on the currency system ZOS decided to go with in this situation. In my head I would imagine it would be able the same scale and time sink as it would take to earn a full gear of PvP vendor gear with AP from cyrodiil.

How may tokens should you get for gold and silver pledges?
Again depends on what currency they go with but let's say an armor piece costs costs 250k of whatever currency. If that was the case I would say 15-20k per gold run and subsequently less for silver and bronze.

Should this currency be account based or character based?
I would love to say account bound but I fear that would cause an imbalance and cause further issues in the game fairness wise so I would say unless they change it for AP it would make the most sense for it to be character bound.

Would you like to see it as a currency or a trophy and have vaults?
Currency for sure it would difficult to make a vault type situation work unless there was a vendor of some sort standing inside and he/she would let you pick one goody out of their goody bag otherwise it sounds like another RNG situation to me. I also don't particularly care for trophies in the sense they take up inventory space. It's not a huge deal but if I had a choice it would be currency like AP, gold and Tel Var Stones

PvP guys how do you feel about this? (oh gawd im about to be shot

)
N/A :P

Do you think monster sets ie helms and shoulder pieces should be sold this way or do you think you should still have to farm them?
I would say make them part of the currency based store as well only because that would mean that RNG would still be a factor and I think it would be counter intuitive to the whole idea because monster sets a big part of virtually every end game build either as 1 or 2 piece and if they still have to go farming for that I would say we weren't much better off than where we started from.

How do you think this will impact the game as a whole and your experience with it?
For me and my guildies and literally everyone i've ever talked to about it has said that this would be one of the biggest things that ESO could possibly do to help put life back into this game. I know people who have left this game because they cannot get the gear before it becomes obsolete. I know people who have gotten 7 shoulders and 6 chests of spell power cure and no other type of pieces in over 200+ runs. One of the best players in NA server who has one of the best MSA scores period has something close to 70 v16 weapons out there but still doesn't have the destruction staff he's looking for. I know this is a severly beaten dead horse but understand that people can only run the same dungeon so many hundreds of times before they lose hope of getting 7 different pieces of gear much less ones that aren't well-fitted or impenetrable. The worst part about it is even in hundreds of runs the way this game is setup you are not guarranteed to get what you want. Don't misconstrue my worlds you can check my /timeplayed (it's probably depresssing) and see that I have absolutely no aversion to a time sink or having to slowly chip away at earning something but what's almost killed my desire to play this game altogther and has killled it for people I know that I used to run with really good players leaving because they can't get the gear they want and have no reason to expect to get it. You guys have to see this it really is a super crazy idea and wouldn't be that hard for you guys to incorporate and I can tell you I can think of 20+ people in my head right that would literally jump up and down and get giddy if they knew that they for sure could get the sets they want they just had to put in the time.

Am I insane for asking this?
Yes but you're insane for many other reasons that would probably need it's own dedicated thread

Have I missed anything?
I don't think so the big issue is addressed here and if it's not 100% the way you have it set up that wouldn't be the end of the world but even half of this being implemented would make an absolute world of difference.

Should you get extra currency or something for using the group finder?
maybe a small % but honestly that doesn't really matter to me either way

Finally Is this a good idea or something that would make you enjoy your time in ESO more?
YES GOD YES ZOS DO IT NOW PLEASE?!?!

SirLorwyvrn · February 2016

I'm from the south. Forgive my grammatical ignorance...