Repentance - For EVERYONE!

Callidus_Est

Now, some of you may scream at me that repentance is too powerful, but this is just an Idea that I have. I have played Templar for a year now, so I know what I am talking about.

I'm not going to argue that repentance is an awesome skill, but it only favors HALF of all DPS users in the game. Magicka builds do not benefit at all, resource wise. I propose that repentance should also give magicka back, but maybe only half as much as it does stamina, cause magicka isn't needed as badly for half of all combat mechanics. I believe the reason why the DEVs made repentance restore so much stamina is because its used for so many things (roll dodge, block, abilities, CC break). I don't want hate, but give me some constructive criticism about this, cause I would love to hear what all you veteran Templars think of this.

Thanks for reading.

timidobserver

ZOS breaks what they touch. Leave repentance alone.

Baconlad

Man...you kidding? So for a stamina build, you get aLOT of health and stamina. VERY use full for stamina builds because...its their only useful heal from templar skills. Now since it scales off of max stamina to determine how much health and stamina, magicka build do not get as much back...but, that's not to say that its useless for magicka build because guess what? We need stamina too! Its a staple! So just like stamina builds cannot get much usefullness out of breath of life, magicka builds cannot get even half benefit of the repentence heal and Stam! So here's another kicker. There's a 10% increase in ALL resources, so for a magick build lets review what we get. We get a little bit of health back, lets say half of a stamina builds health return, and little bit of stamina, half again as much as a stamina build, then we get the 10% all resource regen...great skill for when we have to break free or dodge roll. For magicka regenthrough skills we ALSO get channeled focus! So...in conclusion, repentence is a staple for ALL of my builds...no need to change repentence to give magicka, it would make us freaking batteries as magick users, I feel like other than crippling bugs, templar is fairly balanced. If you would like further assistance on regaining magick, I have been playing templar as my sole character since game launch, very knowledgeable about all abilities and usefulness in ALL builds and styles of play. Sorry I my reply sounded sarcastic and assholish. Good luck!

Ourorboros

I couldn't agree more, OP. I've had the same thought. This game swings between favoring magicka or stamina, It never seems to allow both to have equal advantages. I've a vet in every class but DK (yet). My stam builds get a great benefit from shards and Repentance. Where is the love for my sorc, whose biggest problem is running out of magicka?

AmmonErebos

@Baconlad your comment of "We get a little bit of health back, lets say half of a stamina builds health return" is actually incorrect, it scales off whichever is higher, max stamina OR max magicka.

As for a move that restores magicka? Try the necrotic orb morphs from undaunted skill line... may not directly boost you but acts similar to shards but for magicka users...

Repentance as it is... is fine for magicka and stamina classes... for magicka classes it is primarily used as a heal... and if used with 6 bodies on ground is best burst heal in the game... very good for the healers to get a ZERO COST heal that can easily heal more than BoL..

Elara_Northwind

I play magicka templar and I find repentance to be a great skill. I very rarely run low on magicka, but my stamina sucks, so I actually would prefer to keep it how it is

Alorier

I run a magikca templar and all I can say is please Zos ignore the Op and leave repentance alone as it will only get messed up and ruin it for others

ks888

Repentance is fine the way it is. Time it right and it can save you and your group. They need to leave it alone.

Like @SadieJoan said, Magicka Temps lack on stam, especially in PvP. Repentance helps with that and is essential for healers and it's a pretty obvious skill for Stamplars.

Gilliamtherogue

There are multiple ways for magicka users to retain magicka, while very few ways exist for stamina users. I am not going to compare regen/resource cost reduction as they force the player to make sacrifices with gear/enchants, while all of these skills have no net loss of power when utilized.
Magicka Users have;
Elemental Drain: ~300-400 magicka back per elemental hit, with no ICD. That means sorcs and DK's are getting at least 2-3 ticks per second just weaving a light attack and an ability, and even more if they run DOT abilities.

Harness Magicka: One of the most toxicly designed skills ever. It grants resources for taking magic or elemental damage, the more damage you take the more it returns, easily more than it costs to cast.

Siphon Spirit: Gives 1% magicka back per hit, operates the same way as Ele drain, except works on any attack. No ICD either.

Arcane Well: CP passive that doesn't help during combat (unless there are adds) but pretty much removes the need to wait between pulls in smaller scale PvE, actually utilized heavily during zerg fighting as well.

Luminous Shards: I almost didn't include this since it's pretty weak. Personally I don't see why this morph exists compared to Blazing, but if it had its return numbers boosted for stam/magicka I could see it being utilized more.

Now what does stamina get for returns?

Shards: 20% of stamina back, pretty basic. 20 second ICD, must be synergized (Pretty much 1% stamina per second), doesn't proc Synergizer passive from CP. Only given by... Templars. When compared to SIphon/Ele drain resource return wise, Shards loses by a large margin. Also consumes the Templar's source of damage when synergized.

Repentance: The saving grace of stamina in a lot of situations, gives pretty much infinite resources for stamina, as long as there are fresh lambs to the slaughter. However this skill is completely useless mid combat in 9/10 boss fights, as no adds or so few exist that it cannot validate the bar slot.

Adding Repentance to the list of magicka would just make the imbalance worse. Pls stop.

Callidus_Est

It seems all of you are misconstruing my thoughts.

-I am not saying NURF TEMPLARS OP NERF TO THE GROUND
-I am also not saying BUFF TEMPLARS, MAKE THEM SLAUGHTER ALL
-I am saying that this could be a balance to make Templars better.
-I DO NOT want to gut repentance, quite the opposite. What I am suggesting is BETTER that repentance is now, and people don't want it? Believing ZOS screws everything they touch is partially true at best and incredibly naïve.

@Ourorboros I agree with you, stating the game swings back and for between the too. Right now, Stamina is more powerful. In early stages of the game, there WAS NO STAMINA, at all. In 1.5, I'm pretty sure magicka was favored, but I'm not sure, since a few weeks after I started playing, 1.6 came around.

@Baconlad I'm pretty sure that the recovery you get from repentance only applies to the caster if he has it slotted.

Callidus_Est

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

There are multiple ways for magicka users to retain magicka, while very few ways exist for stamina users. I am not going to compare regen/resource cost reduction as they force the player to make sacrifices with gear/enchants, while all of these skills have no net loss of power when utilized.
Magicka Users have;
Elemental Drain: ~300-400 magicka back per elemental hit, with no ICD. That means sorcs and DK's are getting at least 2-3 ticks per second just weaving a light attack and an ability, and even more if they run DOT abilities.

Harness Magicka: One of the most toxicly designed skills ever. It grants resources for taking magic or elemental damage, the more damage you take the more it returns, easily more than it costs to cast.

Siphon Spirit: Gives 1% magicka back per hit, operates the same way as Ele drain, except works on any attack. No ICD either.

Arcane Well: CP passive that doesn't help during combat (unless there are adds) but pretty much removes the need to wait between pulls in smaller scale PvE, actually utilized heavily during zerg fighting as well.

Luminous Shards: I almost didn't include this since it's pretty weak. Personally I don't see why this morph exists compared to Blazing, but if it had its return numbers boosted for stam/magicka I could see it being utilized more.

Now what does stamina get for returns?

Shards: 20% of stamina back, pretty basic. 20 second ICD, must be synergized (Pretty much 1% stamina per second), doesn't proc Synergizer passive from CP. Only given by... Templars. When compared to SIphon/Ele drain resource return wise, Shards loses by a large margin. Also consumes the Templar's source of damage when synergized.

Repentance: The saving grace of stamina in a lot of situations, gives pretty much infinite resources for stamina, as long as there are fresh lambs to the slaughter. However this skill is completely useless mid combat in 9/10 boss fights, as no adds or so few exist that it cannot validate the bar slot.

Adding Repentance to the list of magicka would just make the imbalance worse. Pls stop.

I see your point, and I'm not going to defend my position to the death, as some of the git gud 12 year old forum posters. I asked for constructive criticism, and you delivered. Now, I ask you @Gilliamtherogue What would you do to make repentance better for stamina users, or perhaps, are there other skills you would make into stamina regeneration means?

Also for stamina, you forgot to mention, Earthen heart passive, 5% stam, Relentless focus, and Dark Deal stam morph, every class has a way to get stam back.

Baconlad

Yes callidus, I'm aware it only works when slotted, the tooltip states in the passive...and as far as the STAMINA return on repentence, it does NOT scale with whichever is higher. I do not for the health return, but the stamina return from everything I have seen on my magic build is very low, where my stamina build it returns half or more of my stamina on max bodies.

I believe most posters in here simply do not want it messed with, I do however believe that the opposite morph needs some adjustments, I use potions, tri potions therefore I get the regens I need through the "major" regen buffs of all three attributes, so using the skill kinda defeats the long duration on my potions. Maybe its just me, but I do not want to see a magicka returning version of the aura. Something else needs to be done though...so.thing and I am not the mastermind who knows what to do with it!

Gilliamtherogue

Callidus_Est wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

There are multiple ways for magicka users to retain magicka, while very few ways exist for stamina users. I am not going to compare regen/resource cost reduction as they force the player to make sacrifices with gear/enchants, while all of these skills have no net loss of power when utilized.
Magicka Users have;
Elemental Drain: ~300-400 magicka back per elemental hit, with no ICD. That means sorcs and DK's are getting at least 2-3 ticks per second just weaving a light attack and an ability, and even more if they run DOT abilities.

Harness Magicka: One of the most toxicly designed skills ever. It grants resources for taking magic or elemental damage, the more damage you take the more it returns, easily more than it costs to cast.

Siphon Spirit: Gives 1% magicka back per hit, operates the same way as Ele drain, except works on any attack. No ICD either.

Arcane Well: CP passive that doesn't help during combat (unless there are adds) but pretty much removes the need to wait between pulls in smaller scale PvE, actually utilized heavily during zerg fighting as well.

Luminous Shards: I almost didn't include this since it's pretty weak. Personally I don't see why this morph exists compared to Blazing, but if it had its return numbers boosted for stam/magicka I could see it being utilized more.

Now what does stamina get for returns?

Shards: 20% of stamina back, pretty basic. 20 second ICD, must be synergized (Pretty much 1% stamina per second), doesn't proc Synergizer passive from CP. Only given by... Templars. When compared to SIphon/Ele drain resource return wise, Shards loses by a large margin. Also consumes the Templar's source of damage when synergized.

Repentance: The saving grace of stamina in a lot of situations, gives pretty much infinite resources for stamina, as long as there are fresh lambs to the slaughter. However this skill is completely useless mid combat in 9/10 boss fights, as no adds or so few exist that it cannot validate the bar slot.

Adding Repentance to the list of magicka would just make the imbalance worse. Pls stop.

I see your point, and I'm not going to defend my position to the death, as some of the git gud 12 year old forum posters. I asked for constructive criticism, and you delivered. Now, I ask you @Gilliamtherogue What would you do to make repentance better for stamina users, or perhaps, are there other skills you would make into stamina regeneration means?

Also for stamina, you forgot to mention, Earthen heart passive, 5% stam, Relentless focus, and Dark Deal stam morph, every class has a way to get stam back.

I tried to focus on universally applicable sources. Anyone can cast Harness/Drain/Siphon/Arcane Well. Only Templars can cast Shards/Repentance, which makes my case even stronger, since if you have no templar in group your stamina DPS is literally left alone to fend for themselves. I will not disagree that *most* classes have a way to help alleviate these things, but many of them take away too much for what they give. For example; Dark Deal forces the caster to become utterly useless while it's being used, while all of these other suggestions are on demand and instant returns. Also many of the ways to get stamina back also give magicka back as well, with the exception of Earthen Heart passive. When an ability gives both in equal amounts, it cannot be used as a comparison since they equal each other out.

As for making repentance better, I wouldn't touch it, except for the other morph. I'd make the other morph operate the same way as repentance works, but only working on living targets, rather than corpses, or change repentance to do that instead.

Stamina regeneration is actually a very low efficient stat in terms of which I evaluate, which is min/maxed DPS, as that is my job as guild leader and current top NB NA. Stamina regen takes 2 seconds to take effect, while other stats are on demand, meaning regen's value is heavily mitigated. None of my examples above used regen, instead all gave some sort of flat amount of resource in return for interacting with it.

Callidus_Est

Baconlad wrote: »

Yes callidus, I'm aware it only works when slotted, the tooltip states in the passive...and as far as the STAMINA return on repentence, it does NOT scale with whichever is higher. I do not for the health return, but the stamina return from everything I have seen on my magic build is very low, where my stamina build it returns half or more of my stamina on max bodies.

I believe most posters in here simply do not want it messed with, I do however believe that the opposite morph needs some adjustments, I use potions, tri potions therefore I get the regens I need through the "major" regen buffs of all three attributes, so using the skill kinda defeats the long duration on my potions. Maybe its just me, but I do not want to see a magicka returning version of the aura. Something else needs to be done though...so.thing and I am not the mastermind who knows what to do with it!

I definitely agree that the Radiant Aura morph sucks ass. It needs to be better so it is competitive to repentance. it used to be 80% regen(RIP), but maybe now, it'd be nice to see it as a class speed buff, or maybe a dodge chance.

Cinbri

As solo player, i don't like it coz it works only on corpses and when you face 1vX, you will be the first corpse. People nowdays use it only coz:
1. Most templars run in trains and Repentance restore stamina and hp to entire group nearby.
2. Radiant Aura morph was ruined. Once it will be fixed, i guess many templars will use it over repentance again.

Callidus_Est

I would much like to see radiant Aura restored to its former glory. A lot of solo players DO use repentance, not only for the dead bodies, but the passive regeneration you get for slotting it.

Ashamray

I run solo but use Repentance coz I have a set of Engine Guardian and receive 1 or even 2 corpses every 10 seconds. No set - no Rep.

caeliusstarbreaker

I vote no... Because you have channeled focus, and stam is very important on mag characters as well. Seriously, if any class or play style dies with full/half stam, you probably could have done more to stay alive, in most situations.

Callidus_Est

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I vote no... Because you have channeled focus, and stam is very important on mag characters as well. Seriously, if any class or play style dies with full/half stam, you probably could have done more to stay alive, in most situations.

I'm not talking about just Templars, I'm talking about all magicka builds.

dodgehopper_ESO

Callidus_Est wrote: »

Baconlad wrote: »

Yes callidus, I'm aware it only works when slotted, the tooltip states in the passive...and as far as the STAMINA return on repentence, it does NOT scale with whichever is higher. I do not for the health return, but the stamina return from everything I have seen on my magic build is very low, where my stamina build it returns half or more of my stamina on max bodies.

I believe most posters in here simply do not want it messed with, I do however believe that the opposite morph needs some adjustments, I use potions, tri potions therefore I get the regens I need through the "major" regen buffs of all three attributes, so using the skill kinda defeats the long duration on my potions. Maybe its just me, but I do not want to see a magicka returning version of the aura. Something else needs to be done though...so.thing and I am not the mastermind who knows what to do with it!

I definitely agree that the Radiant Aura morph sucks ass. It needs to be better so it is competitive to repentance. it used to be 80% regen(RIP), but maybe now, it'd be nice to see it as a class speed buff, or maybe a dodge chance.

Everyone who plays a Templar knows that the Major/Minor buff is what killed this skill. Honestly I'd probably still be using the non-repentance morph if it were not for that. Tripots easily trump whatever you can get from Radiant Aura though. Repentance all the way, all the time, every day---> And that's part of the problem with this skill. The Skill morphs should give a reasonable choice, not a bad option and a worse option (Like the Alliance GUard skill), or a good option and a terrible option (Repentance). If the game is designed well, skill morphs should not be an illusion of choice but an actual choice.

Baconlad

I guess as long as I retain a 10% buff to all stats, I really don't care too much. Hell even If the skill restored magic and stamina and health, but giving more health and less stam/magic, I'd still be happy.

Shelgon

If you can't sustain as a mag templar with Harness and Channeled focus, idk what you're doing honestly tbh.

caeliusstarbreaker

Callidus_Est wrote: »

caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »

I vote no... Because you have channeled focus, and stam is very important on mag characters as well. Seriously, if any class or play style dies with full/half stam, you probably could have done more to stay alive, in most situations.

I'm not talking about just Templars, I'm talking about all magicka builds.

Still say no... Mag sustain isn't an issue. The resource itself doesn't have to be leaned on for CC break or dodgeroll.

caeliusstarbreaker

Look.. I agree with you that it would be an added nicety, but the skill is balanced where it's at and shouldn't even be looked at, let alone touched. If you want to talk about radiant aura or whatever the other morph is and do something like.. Make it's regen stackable with pot's I'd be in the convo. You don't even need mag regen on that because you have channeled focus, but if it were to give the regen buffs independent of of something I already get from a potion, I wouldn't argue with you.

Dredlord

Wow this thread is both hilarious and sad all at once...

Guy suggests buff for useless morph, templars chime in with no don't buff it, we dont want another skill broken and left to rot by the devs patch after patch after patch.

ku5h

Ourorboros wrote: »

I couldn't agree more, OP. I've had the same thought. This game swings between favoring magicka or stamina, It never seems to allow both to have equal advantages. I've a vet in every class but DK (yet). My stam builds get a great benefit from shards and Repentance. Where is the love for my sorc, whose biggest problem is running out of magicka?

All you need is 1 guy in your party to slot elemental drain, and you will never run out of magica. Some ppl say its healers job to have it, but i always pack it in pug runs, as magica DK dd.

leepalmer95

I use it because it's the only sustain boost a templar has, sad the way they need to waste a skill slot for 10% all then nb's just put 2 points into a passive and get 15% all, 5% more then vamps gets without any downsides at all.