This Whole Animation Cancel Macro Problem is Getting Out of Hand
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Artjuh90✭✭✭✭✭
✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »
And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.
If we are being serious now, I don't use them for combat. My Keyboard profile is right here on this sight for all to see. You can check the last link in my signature. They may remove it tomorrow but it has been there for 8 months now.
Lol I'm not being serious. I'm just pointing out the fact that having a whole bunch of macros to manage is probably much more difficult than just doing the animation cancelling manually, since people seem to think that anybody who is good at animation cancelling must be running macros. I imagine that using macros is more disadvantageous than anything, and would be thoroughly shocked to find out that any of the best players are using them.
I know you weren't being serious. The start of that was to let folks know that the rest of it was serious.
I'm not intentionally hiding anything. I have the Hardware and software capable of using these things (as do many others), and I agree I see no advantage to it for myself in combat. I rarely do PvP or PVE where scores and leader boards come into play. Programming macros for these would be a waist of time for me as I just don't care about them that much.
quite simple really, it adds resource management and gives you a reason then stack something else then full stamina/magicka. you will have to make choices to either spend resources for defensive abilty's or offensive abilty's. now the choice isn't really hard because you can spamm most abilty's about 10-12 times (not even taking regen in account) before you are out of resources. this is what i think also leads to the rage about things like the WB spamm. there is no risk for the engaging part to spamm it because the defending party needs more resources to actually block the WB losing BOTH stam and health, and not to forget MORE stamina then the attacker. so the risk involving the attacking party is always low, henche the hate on NB aswell. i do agree with the dodgerolling part that it cost might be a bit more expensive because you can dodge several things but as it is right now things can be improved. although if they implement this PvP will look a whole lot different, and tanks might even be viable in PvP again0 -
Xantaria✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nobody uses Macros. Stop accusing people of doing it. There is literally NO reason to ever use a Macro in this game. You're either pro at animation cancelling or you're a noob. That's life.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li6REncwPkU Edited by Xantaria on January 25, 2016 9:33AMXantaria - Lead of Chimaira
Hardcore Progress PvE Player - Livestream - Youtube
World First Dro-m'Athra Destroyer
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Proud Member of the Council of Exploiters.2 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
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I'll draw the picture for you: Animation cancelling allows to perform a series of attacks that as a whole are enough to prevent defensive action on the receiving side. You do not have to think about how to break up your opponent's defense anymore, since he will not be able to defend. The classic "one shot" (even though it's a threeshot [LA + ability + bash] or even four shot [travel time attack or gap closer + LA + ability + bash]).DaveMoeDee wrote: »I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.
Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.
The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.
I hate animation cancelling, but how is it not a skill? It is clearly a skill that takes practice to become proficient.
I don't care for animation cancelling because it is silly to cancel animation. Cancelling skills, sure. Cancelling attacks, ok. But animations? Silly. But if that is the way it works, being good at it is skilled gameplay.
Your phrase "real playing skill" is just a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.
This actually removes the need for tactical thinking over adding finger dexterity. As such, muscle memory takes over, or reflexes, not tactical thinking. My personal definition of "skilled gameplay" is tactical thinking, not reflexes. YMMV.
As to those accusing me of whining: you would not if you were hit by my crit rush - wb - HA - bash - executioner for a grand total of 40k damage if everything crits, on BWB, with my pimped out 501 CP stam dk.
It's not that I can't do it. It's about me not liking anything that allows to discard opponents that way. It's like the AWP on vanilla CS, just without the artificial aim difficulty of it. Here, it's too damn easy to pull off.
So either we all embrace the zerg and the lag, or we fight to make small scale more interesting. Not being able to kill your opponent without any possibility of escape is one of the things that need to happen.1 -
Casdha✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since you like sarcasm, I can joint in as well.
I have a keyboard that has 18 programmable macro keys and 3 program set buttons for a total of 54 programmable macros,
It works great on Candy Crush.
I have the same amount of those keys (is your keyboard a Logitech G510s by any chance), plus the 6 programmable macro keys on my mouse and I've never used any of them for ESO. There is 0 point as it just makes things less reactive, so I only use them in games such as Elite Dangerous for repeated long flight maneuvers (read: autopilot).
Yes you check out the last link in my signature It has a copy of my profile attatched to the first post. It is not complicated but took quite a bit of time to do.
The Candy Crush bit was me being silly. I've never played Candy Crush. I quit playing those types of games when Bejeweled Blitz added Cats that shot lasers out of their eyes,,,,, that was just to much for me. My wife still loves them though
Proud member of the Psijic Order - The first wave - The 0.016%0 -
ColoursYouHave✭✭✭✭✭
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AhahahahahahahahahahahaKorah_Eaglecry wrote: »Awwww. People arent playing to your unnecessary and self gimping playstyle. What a shame, because only you have skill and know whats best for the community.
If you have to resort to lying and down right manipulating things to further your agenda. Its not a worth while agenda.
If there is an issue with the macros there are better ways of approaching it then creating fabrications and then jumping on blatantly obvious fabrications as evidence to get ZOS to look at it. But your comment at the top of the page 2 is a strong indicator that the GCD isnt the issue but your ego and attitude that others should have to play your way cause 'skill' is at the heart of why youre in the middle of this debate.
Bash-cancel, anyone? Ever dodgecancelled a wb? I feck up the timing 90%, but I know that it works. It also cancels the animation of a cast-time skill, not fully but enough to initiate the next ability much faster than without. More importantly, nothing you wrote has anything to do with my statement. I know what AC is, how it works in theory and am able to pull off all kinds occasionally.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
That is false. To explain this, I'll use what is probably the most common type of animation canceling, light attack weaving. For this we are using two different things, a light attack, and a skill. Each of these has a GCD (I think its one second but not entirely positive), but they each have their own GCD, rather than a shared one. What this means is that if I light attack, it will activate that GCD meaning I can't use another light attack until that cooldown ends. Likewise, if I use a skill, it activates that GCD, so I can't activate another skill until that cooldown ends. However, since the light attack and the skill have separate GCDs, I can use animation canceling to do one and then immediately do the other (in this case light attack ---AC---> skill). This only works because they are on separate cooldowns. This is in no way bypassing GCDs, but is rather activating two separate GCDs in rapid succession. After doing the light attack/skill combo, both of the GCDs have been activated, and I must wait for the cooldown in order to perform the combo again. Whether the effect occurs at the beginning of the animation or at the end doesn't change the fact that you still must wait for the cooldown to expire before using that ability again.
Have you tried learning animation canceling? It is actually really easy to do, and learning how to do it would give you a better understanding of how it actually works. Heck, if you're on NA PC I'll even go in game and teach you, and you'll quickly see that its not some huge OP thing that people seem to think it is.
I do very well realize that animation cancelling is not allowing you to break gcd. But something is. The only thing I said is that in case the animation would have to play out before the effect is happening, both would be harmless.
Yes, and you can bash-cancel and dodge roll cancel for the same reason I explained, because the GCD they are on is separate from the GCD for skills.
And if you realize that animation canceling is not allowing you to bypass GCD, why are you even arguing with me? The entire point I am trying to make is that animation canceling cannot bypass GCD, and the people who are claiming that it can sound ridiculous. If people are finding ways to bypass GCD I am 100% on board with ZOS stopping that from happening, but people are placing blame in the wrong direction when they try to say AC is responsible for something like that happening.0 -
Solanum✭✭✭Yeah, you are hilarious sunshine.
Animation cancelling is ***. I hope Zenimax makes skills deal their damage after their animation finishes playing.
You rather use a skill instead of a light attack? Sure, no problem, you go for that instead.
You want to dodgeroll or block rather then finish that skill? Go ahead, we don't mind.
"But but, we are so skilled with animation cancelling!" and that is great Timmy, I'm certain a skilled player like you will be able to fight people whom can actually see what you are doing.
Perhaps with the free light attack before every skill removed we can lessen the damage debuff in Cyrodiil while at it.1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »
AhahahahahahahahahahahaKorah_Eaglecry wrote: »Awwww. People arent playing to your unnecessary and self gimping playstyle. What a shame, because only you have skill and know whats best for the community.
If you have to resort to lying and down right manipulating things to further your agenda. Its not a worth while agenda.
If there is an issue with the macros there are better ways of approaching it then creating fabrications and then jumping on blatantly obvious fabrications as evidence to get ZOS to look at it. But your comment at the top of the page 2 is a strong indicator that the GCD isnt the issue but your ego and attitude that others should have to play your way cause 'skill' is at the heart of why youre in the middle of this debate.
Bash-cancel, anyone? Ever dodgecancelled a wb? I feck up the timing 90%, but I know that it works. It also cancels the animation of a cast-time skill, not fully but enough to initiate the next ability much faster than without. More importantly, nothing you wrote has anything to do with my statement. I know what AC is, how it works in theory and am able to pull off all kinds occasionally.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
That is false. To explain this, I'll use what is probably the most common type of animation canceling, light attack weaving. For this we are using two different things, a light attack, and a skill. Each of these has a GCD (I think its one second but not entirely positive), but they each have their own GCD, rather than a shared one. What this means is that if I light attack, it will activate that GCD meaning I can't use another light attack until that cooldown ends. Likewise, if I use a skill, it activates that GCD, so I can't activate another skill until that cooldown ends. However, since the light attack and the skill have separate GCDs, I can use animation canceling to do one and then immediately do the other (in this case light attack ---AC---> skill). This only works because they are on separate cooldowns. This is in no way bypassing GCDs, but is rather activating two separate GCDs in rapid succession. After doing the light attack/skill combo, both of the GCDs have been activated, and I must wait for the cooldown in order to perform the combo again. Whether the effect occurs at the beginning of the animation or at the end doesn't change the fact that you still must wait for the cooldown to expire before using that ability again.
Have you tried learning animation canceling? It is actually really easy to do, and learning how to do it would give you a better understanding of how it actually works. Heck, if you're on NA PC I'll even go in game and teach you, and you'll quickly see that its not some huge OP thing that people seem to think it is.
I do very well realize that animation cancelling is not allowing you to break gcd. But something is. The only thing I said is that in case the animation would have to play out before the effect is happening, both would be harmless.
Yes, and you can bash-cancel and dodge roll cancel for the same reason I explained, because the GCD they are on is separate from the GCD for skills.
And if you realize that animation canceling is not allowing you to bypass GCD, why are you even arguing with me? The entire point I am trying to make is that animation canceling cannot bypass GCD, and the people who are claiming that it can sound ridiculous. If people are finding ways to bypass GCD I am 100% on board with ZOS stopping that from happening, but people are placing blame in the wrong direction when they try to say AC is responsible for something like that happening.
Dense person is dense. Have fun, mate.1 -
Troneon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.
Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.
The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.
So much this. ^^^^^^^^^^^^PC EU ADMaster Crafter - Anything you need!!High Elf Magicka Templar Healer/DPS/TankTrials / Dungeons / PVP / Everything1 -
Stikato✭✭✭✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »
AhahahahahahahahahahahaKorah_Eaglecry wrote: »Awwww. People arent playing to your unnecessary and self gimping playstyle. What a shame, because only you have skill and know whats best for the community.
If you have to resort to lying and down right manipulating things to further your agenda. Its not a worth while agenda.
If there is an issue with the macros there are better ways of approaching it then creating fabrications and then jumping on blatantly obvious fabrications as evidence to get ZOS to look at it. But your comment at the top of the page 2 is a strong indicator that the GCD isnt the issue but your ego and attitude that others should have to play your way cause 'skill' is at the heart of why youre in the middle of this debate.
Bash-cancel, anyone? Ever dodgecancelled a wb? I feck up the timing 90%, but I know that it works. It also cancels the animation of a cast-time skill, not fully but enough to initiate the next ability much faster than without. More importantly, nothing you wrote has anything to do with my statement. I know what AC is, how it works in theory and am able to pull off all kinds occasionally.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.ColoursYouHave wrote: »
I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.
Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?
Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.
That is false. To explain this, I'll use what is probably the most common type of animation canceling, light attack weaving. For this we are using two different things, a light attack, and a skill. Each of these has a GCD (I think its one second but not entirely positive), but they each have their own GCD, rather than a shared one. What this means is that if I light attack, it will activate that GCD meaning I can't use another light attack until that cooldown ends. Likewise, if I use a skill, it activates that GCD, so I can't activate another skill until that cooldown ends. However, since the light attack and the skill have separate GCDs, I can use animation canceling to do one and then immediately do the other (in this case light attack ---AC---> skill). This only works because they are on separate cooldowns. This is in no way bypassing GCDs, but is rather activating two separate GCDs in rapid succession. After doing the light attack/skill combo, both of the GCDs have been activated, and I must wait for the cooldown in order to perform the combo again. Whether the effect occurs at the beginning of the animation or at the end doesn't change the fact that you still must wait for the cooldown to expire before using that ability again.
Have you tried learning animation canceling? It is actually really easy to do, and learning how to do it would give you a better understanding of how it actually works. Heck, if you're on NA PC I'll even go in game and teach you, and you'll quickly see that its not some huge OP thing that people seem to think it is.
I do very well realize that animation cancelling is not allowing you to break gcd. But something is. The only thing I said is that in case the animation would have to play out before the effect is happening, both would be harmless.
Yes, and you can bash-cancel and dodge roll cancel for the same reason I explained, because the GCD they are on is separate from the GCD for skills.
And if you realize that animation canceling is not allowing you to bypass GCD, why are you even arguing with me? The entire point I am trying to make is that animation canceling cannot bypass GCD, and the people who are claiming that it can sound ridiculous. If people are finding ways to bypass GCD I am 100% on board with ZOS stopping that from happening, but people are placing blame in the wrong direction when they try to say AC is responsible for something like that happening.
The fact that AC cannot bypass the GCD, does not mean that AC is a good mechanic.Mordimus - Stam Sorc2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ColoursYouHave wrote: »ColoursYouHave wrote: »... Is this a joke?
Serious question actually, because 30 attacks in a second isn't animation canceling, it's actual hacking lolYou are must be trolling 30 SB 17 WB that alone even if you're not a dps is over kill lol
Of course I'm not serious. Its satire. I thought the last line I wrote would give it away...FriedEggSandwich wrote: »This would have done better as a response in the type of thread you mock.
Don't worry, I've commented in those too, but I figured I'd at least try to be somewhat serious in those responses.
You should seriously check that word up. Mockery, ridiculing and bullying manners are not satire.
But your smug feeling of being an insider of a circle that unofficially actually own this game is really adding to your credibility.
"Satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."
Umm, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what satire is...
And for anybody who still hasn't managed to catch on, this is not a serious thread. It is a joke. Please stop trying to argue that what I said is impossible. I know it is impossible. That is the whole point...
(Don't know how I've missed this...)
Ah! The subjective subject of Humor...
I don't know where you found that definition of Satire, the internet is marvelous indeed, but parts of that particular definition suits rather better to Parody than Satire. Another humorous genger is Imitation (such as "my impression of..). Satire (at least good) is often revolving around irony, not necessarily with an intent to hurt the object or subject of the satire, nor insult it, that is what Sarcasm is for.
There are of course high and low forms of humor.
Your original post falls under the category Sarcastic Parody and not Satire.
And Sarcasm isn't the lowest form of Humor.
It's not Humor at all.Edited by Idinuse on January 27, 2016 9:42PMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0
