This Whole Animation Cancel Macro Problem is Getting Out of Hand

Leandor

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Um I don't know about 30 attacks in 1 second but the whole macro thing is right. A player can set one up to launch off like 4 or 5 skills at most in a 1 second or second and a half is getting out of hand and is making the game more frustration cause players have to get even more DPS to out DPS the macro guy and so on causing a endless cycle,

Browiseth

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Wily_Wizard

mr1sho wrote: »

Unicorns I want a pink one with rainbows

Close enough?

Kryank

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Hehe this, it's amazing how many people can't wait to jump on the 'omg I died must be a macro spamming cheater' every time they see a thread mentioning it without reading the OP.

Bluepitbull13

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Recremen

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Actually, animation canceling only heightens the requirement for skill, I don't really understand where you're missing that. There's a hard cap caused by the global cooldown for the number of actions that can be taken in a given amount of time. Knowing that everyone has access to this ability, you need to be just as conscious of your resource pools, survivability, etc., as you would otherwise. It's not exclusively about who's getting off the most surprise attacks per unit time. What if one party throws out an instant-cast CC? Bam, your attack protocol needs adjusting. Let's say you got a boatload of damage before you could break free. Well, I guess you could keep trying to animation cancel surprise attacks, but that's silly. Instead, you'd probably want to cast a heal and cancel the animation with a roll dodge, since you can bet your butt the other person is trying to capitalize on that CC and is loading more damage out on you.

Animation canceling increases the complexity of combat at every tier of play. Removing it would decrease complexity and therefore require less skill to compete at the same level. What else would people be willing to remove in their quest for equalization? Line of sight? Terrain features? Ranged combat? Moving your character? All of these things increase the complexity of gameplay, and all of them get used more efficiently and creatively by people who have practiced more. At the end of the day, these differences in skill are always going to exist, there's always going to be people who can't or don't desire to spend the time to practice and get better, and there's always going to be people who can and do. Picking some arbitrary combat feature and deciding that it is to blame for all losses is ridiculous, and trying to imply that it reduces skill is self-evidently false.

Leandor

Recremen wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Actually, animation canceling only heightens the requirement for skill, I don't really understand where you're missing that. There's a hard cap caused by the global cooldown for the number of actions that can be taken in a given amount of time. Knowing that everyone has access to this ability, you need to be just as conscious of your resource pools, survivability, etc., as you would otherwise. It's not exclusively about who's getting off the most surprise attacks per unit time. What if one party throws out an instant-cast CC? Bam, your attack protocol needs adjusting. Let's say you got a boatload of damage before you could break free. Well, I guess you could keep trying to animation cancel surprise attacks, but that's silly. Instead, you'd probably want to cast a heal and cancel the animation with a roll dodge, since you can bet your butt the other person is trying to capitalize on that CC and is loading more damage out on you.

Animation canceling increases the complexity of combat at every tier of play. Removing it would decrease complexity and therefore require less skill to compete at the same level. What else would people be willing to remove in their quest for equalization? Line of sight? Terrain features? Ranged combat? Moving your character? All of these things increase the complexity of gameplay, and all of them get used more efficiently and creatively by people who have practiced more. At the end of the day, these differences in skill are always going to exist, there's always going to be people who can't or don't desire to spend the time to practice and get better, and there's always going to be people who can and do. Picking some arbitrary combat feature and deciding that it is to blame for all losses is ridiculous, and trying to imply that it reduces skill is self-evidently false.

I've heard all that blurb thousands of times. I still don’t care.

Artjuh90

Recremen wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Actually, animation canceling only heightens the requirement for skill, I don't really understand where you're missing that. There's a hard cap caused by the global cooldown for the number of actions that can be taken in a given amount of time. Knowing that everyone has access to this ability, you need to be just as conscious of your resource pools, survivability, etc., as you would otherwise. It's not exclusively about who's getting off the most surprise attacks per unit time. What if one party throws out an instant-cast CC? Bam, your attack protocol needs adjusting. Let's say you got a boatload of damage before you could break free. Well, I guess you could keep trying to animation cancel surprise attacks, but that's silly. Instead, you'd probably want to cast a heal and cancel the animation with a roll dodge, since you can bet your butt the other person is trying to capitalize on that CC and is loading more damage out on you.

Animation canceling increases the complexity of combat at every tier of play. Removing it would decrease complexity and therefore require less skill to compete at the same level. What else would people be willing to remove in their quest for equalization? Line of sight? Terrain features? Ranged combat? Moving your character? All of these things increase the complexity of gameplay, and all of them get used more efficiently and creatively by people who have practiced more. At the end of the day, these differences in skill are always going to exist, there's always going to be people who can't or don't desire to spend the time to practice and get better, and there's always going to be people who can and do. Picking some arbitrary combat feature and deciding that it is to blame for all losses is ridiculous, and trying to imply that it reduces skill is self-evidently false.

AC doesn't always increase complexty though. The main problem i have with the current combat in eso is the cheap cost of skills. at the moment it cost more stamina to dodge roll or block a WB then actually cast it, which to me is strange. this makes that AC is one of the few things that makes the difference in DPS other then build and gear. I know i would like to see more risk reward in the game and i think many others would too (although can't speak for someone else). for example each point in stamina/magicka increases cost 20% of each like 1000 points but add it the same way (maybe even more i let the math to ZoS this would make thing more interesting i think. let me know your though about it i'm curious about it (and ofc from other people playing the game )

ColoursYouHave

Idinuse wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

... Is this a joke?

Serious question actually, because 30 attacks in a second isn't animation canceling, it's actual hacking lol

mr1sho wrote: »

You are must be trolling 30 SB 17 WB that alone even if you're not a dps is over kill lol

Of course I'm not serious. Its satire. I thought the last line I wrote would give it away...

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

This would have done better as a response in the type of thread you mock.

Don't worry, I've commented in those too, but I figured I'd at least try to be somewhat serious in those responses.

You should seriously check that word up. Mockery, ridiculing and bullying manners are not satire.

But your smug feeling of being an insider of a circle that unofficially actually own this game is really adding to your credibility.

"Satire: the use of humor, irony, exaggeration, or ridicule to expose and criticize people's stupidity or vices, particularly in the context of contemporary politics and other topical issues."

Umm, yeah, that's pretty much exactly what satire is...

And for anybody who still hasn't managed to catch on, this is not a serious thread. It is a joke. Please stop trying to argue that what I said is impossible. I know it is impossible. That is the whole point...

Korah_Eaglecry

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Leandor

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

ColoursYouHave

ced30 wrote: »

Can we see that death recap ?

Here ya go!

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.

Leandor

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.

The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.

Korah_Eaglecry

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

Awwww. People arent playing to your unnecessary and self gimping playstyle. What a shame, because only you have skill and know whats best for the community.

If you have to resort to lying and down right manipulating things to further your agenda. Its not a worth while agenda.

If there is an issue with the macros there are better ways of approaching it then creating fabrications and then jumping on blatantly obvious fabrications as evidence to get ZOS to look at it. But your comment at the top of the page 2 is a strong indicator that the GCD isnt the issue but your ego and attitude that others should have to play your way cause 'skill' is at the heart of why youre in the middle of this debate.

Casdha

Since you like sarcasm, I can joint in as well.

I have a keyboard that has 18 programmable macro keys and 3 program set buttons for a total of 54 programmable macros,

It works great on Candy Crush.

ColoursYouHave

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

Leandor wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.

The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.

That is false. To explain this, I'll use what is probably the most common type of animation canceling, light attack weaving. For this we are using two different things, a light attack, and a skill. Each of these has a GCD (I think its one second but not entirely positive), but they each have their own GCD, rather than a shared one. What this means is that if I light attack, it will activate that GCD meaning I can't use another light attack until that cooldown ends. Likewise, if I use a skill, it activates that GCD, so I can't activate another skill until that cooldown ends. However, since the light attack and the skill have separate GCDs, I can use animation canceling to do one and then immediately do the other (in this case light attack ---AC---> skill). This only works because they are on separate cooldowns. This is in no way bypassing GCDs, but is rather activating two separate GCDs in rapid succession. After doing the light attack/skill combo, both of the GCDs have been activated, and I must wait for the cooldown in order to perform the combo again. Whether the effect occurs at the beginning of the animation or at the end doesn't change the fact that you still must wait for the cooldown to expire before using that ability again.

Have you tried learning animation canceling? It is actually really easy to do, and learning how to do it would give you a better understanding of how it actually works. Heck, if you're on NA PC I'll even go in game and teach you, and you'll quickly see that its not some huge OP thing that people seem to think it is.

Casdha wrote: »

Since you like sarcasm, I can joint in as well.

I have a keyboard that has 18 programmable macro keys and 3 program set buttons for a total of 54 programmable macros,

It works great on Candy Crush.

And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.

aLi3nZ

I think I am gonna go ahead and make a video of me dying in 1-2 secs for fun. It is funny and sad at the same time how much lag and how delayed my commands are sometimes. It works fine for me in ic however, very little lag there.

Casdha

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.

If we are being serious now, I don't use them for combat. My Keyboard profile is right here on this sight for all to see. You can check the last link in my signature. They may remove it tomorrow but it has been there for 8 months now.

ColoursYouHave

Casdha wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.

If we are being serious now, I don't use them for combat. My Keyboard profile is right here on this sight for all to see. You can check the last link in my signature. They may remove it tomorrow but it has been there for 8 months now.

Lol I'm not being serious. I'm just pointing out the fact that having a whole bunch of macros to manage is probably much more difficult than just doing the animation cancelling manually, since people seem to think that anybody who is good at animation cancelling must be running macros. I imagine that using macros is more disadvantageous than anything, and would be thoroughly shocked to find out that any of the best players are using them.

Recremen

Leandor wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Actually, animation canceling only heightens the requirement for skill, I don't really understand where you're missing that. There's a hard cap caused by the global cooldown for the number of actions that can be taken in a given amount of time. Knowing that everyone has access to this ability, you need to be just as conscious of your resource pools, survivability, etc., as you would otherwise. It's not exclusively about who's getting off the most surprise attacks per unit time. What if one party throws out an instant-cast CC? Bam, your attack protocol needs adjusting. Let's say you got a boatload of damage before you could break free. Well, I guess you could keep trying to animation cancel surprise attacks, but that's silly. Instead, you'd probably want to cast a heal and cancel the animation with a roll dodge, since you can bet your butt the other person is trying to capitalize on that CC and is loading more damage out on you.

Animation canceling increases the complexity of combat at every tier of play. Removing it would decrease complexity and therefore require less skill to compete at the same level. What else would people be willing to remove in their quest for equalization? Line of sight? Terrain features? Ranged combat? Moving your character? All of these things increase the complexity of gameplay, and all of them get used more efficiently and creatively by people who have practiced more. At the end of the day, these differences in skill are always going to exist, there's always going to be people who can't or don't desire to spend the time to practice and get better, and there's always going to be people who can and do. Picking some arbitrary combat feature and deciding that it is to blame for all losses is ridiculous, and trying to imply that it reduces skill is self-evidently false.

I've heard all that blurb thousands of times. I still don’t care.

You don't need to care, it just needs to be clear to anyone reading that you're wrong.

Recremen

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

Actually, animation canceling only heightens the requirement for skill, I don't really understand where you're missing that. There's a hard cap caused by the global cooldown for the number of actions that can be taken in a given amount of time. Knowing that everyone has access to this ability, you need to be just as conscious of your resource pools, survivability, etc., as you would otherwise. It's not exclusively about who's getting off the most surprise attacks per unit time. What if one party throws out an instant-cast CC? Bam, your attack protocol needs adjusting. Let's say you got a boatload of damage before you could break free. Well, I guess you could keep trying to animation cancel surprise attacks, but that's silly. Instead, you'd probably want to cast a heal and cancel the animation with a roll dodge, since you can bet your butt the other person is trying to capitalize on that CC and is loading more damage out on you.

Animation canceling increases the complexity of combat at every tier of play. Removing it would decrease complexity and therefore require less skill to compete at the same level. What else would people be willing to remove in their quest for equalization? Line of sight? Terrain features? Ranged combat? Moving your character? All of these things increase the complexity of gameplay, and all of them get used more efficiently and creatively by people who have practiced more. At the end of the day, these differences in skill are always going to exist, there's always going to be people who can't or don't desire to spend the time to practice and get better, and there's always going to be people who can and do. Picking some arbitrary combat feature and deciding that it is to blame for all losses is ridiculous, and trying to imply that it reduces skill is self-evidently false.

AC doesn't always increase complexty though. The main problem i have with the current combat in eso is the cheap cost of skills. at the moment it cost more stamina to dodge roll or block a WB then actually cast it, which to me is strange. this makes that AC is one of the few things that makes the difference in DPS other then build and gear. I know i would like to see more risk reward in the game and i think many others would too (although can't speak for someone else). for example each point in stamina/magicka increases cost 20% of each like 1000 points but add it the same way (maybe even more i let the math to ZoS this would make thing more interesting i think. let me know your though about it i'm curious about it (and ofc from other people playing the game )

@Artjuh90

Animation Canceling unilaterally increases complexity, though to be fair I explain it better in this comment here.



The cost of roll dodge does seem steep at first, but I think it's for a good reason. Wrecking Blow is a single-target attack, so you are at most affecting one other player with the attack directly. Roll dodge, on the other hand, lets you avoid every single dodgeable attack being aimed at you, no matter how many. That's better than any shield or armor buff in the game, so it shouldn't be something you can spam! This is actually why they also had to do the cost-increasing effect. Even with its relatively high cost, people were able to make builds that could spam it.

I unfortunately don't understand what your suggestion is about raising cost and adding it the same way, so I can't comment on that. :-(

Casdha

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.

If we are being serious now, I don't use them for combat. My Keyboard profile is right here on this sight for all to see. You can check the last link in my signature. They may remove it tomorrow but it has been there for 8 months now.

Lol I'm not being serious. I'm just pointing out the fact that having a whole bunch of macros to manage is probably much more difficult than just doing the animation cancelling manually, since people seem to think that anybody who is good at animation cancelling must be running macros. I imagine that using macros is more disadvantageous than anything, and would be thoroughly shocked to find out that any of the best players are using them.

I know you weren't being serious. The start of that was to let folks know that the rest of it was serious.

I'm not intentionally hiding anything. I have the Hardware and software capable of using these things (as do many others), and I agree I see no advantage to it for myself in combat. I rarely do PvP or PVE where scores and leader boards come into play. Programming macros for these would be a waist of time for me as I just don't care about them that much.

FlicksZ

This is all very ironic. You mock people for not understanding but clearly you and many others don't either.

Your staunch stance on the issue highlights an inability to accept, acknowledge or understand what is right in front of you or an ulterior motive for not doing so. Some people are so caught up in not getting rid of AC that they omit the overall effects it has on the game, make no mention of other threats that can and have made it into the game and deny the existence of any possible failure.

You base your findings on what you know, experienced and/or are told to be true within certain parameters, cant blame you there but to dismiss some people so blatantly is ignorant at the least. AC was not intentional but it exists, it is not individually catered for and any efforts thus far to incorporate it successfully in any big picture other then the sad state of balance we have today has failed.

Every patch there is something that goes wrong, either directly or indirectly and some are not even remedied at all..... do you even know what that actually means and represents!!! Lol don't even answer. If you truly had any good intentions for the future of the game you would say that AC should be taken into future balancing consideration at the very least. Whether or not they can successfully deal with it is an entirely different but not separate matter.

DaveMoeDee

Leandor wrote: »

I'll gladly turn this thread around for you.

Animation cancelling destroys this game. I can do it rudimentary, and it is enough to destroy many players that can't. I in turn get destroyed by those more proficient. Animation cancelling dumbs this game down so much that actual tactics, as in "which skill may safe me in this situation", real playing skill, is irrelevant.

The only thing relevant is how many attacks can I fire off in a set amount of time. All you poor sods arguing that animation cancelling is skill, I hope (for naught, presumably) you'll get rekt by future designer's decisions.

I hate animation cancelling, but how is it not a skill? It is clearly a skill that takes practice to become proficient.

I don't care for animation cancelling because it is silly to cancel animation. Cancelling skills, sure. Cancelling attacks, ok. But animations? Silly. But if that is the way it works, being good at it is skilled gameplay.

Your phrase "real playing skill" is just a 'no true Scotsman' fallacy.

MrDerrikk

Casdha wrote: »

Since you like sarcasm, I can joint in as well.

I have a keyboard that has 18 programmable macro keys and 3 program set buttons for a total of 54 programmable macros,

It works great on Candy Crush.

I have the same amount of those keys (is your keyboard a Logitech G510s by any chance), plus the 6 programmable macro keys on my mouse and I've never used any of them for ESO. There is 0 point as it just makes things less reactive, so I only use them in games such as Elite Dangerous for repeated long flight maneuvers (read: autopilot).

ColoursYouHave

FlicksZ wrote: »

This is all very ironic. You mock people for not understanding but clearly you and many others don't either.

Your staunch stance on the issue highlights an inability to accept, acknowledge or understand what is right in front of you or an ulterior motive for not doing so. Some people are so caught up in not getting rid of AC that they omit the overall effects it has on the game, make no mention of other threats that can and have made it into the game and deny the existence of any possible failure.

You base your findings on what you know, experienced and/or are told to be true within certain parameters, cant blame you there but to dismiss some people so blatantly is ignorant at the least. AC was not intentional but it exists, it is not individually catered for and any efforts thus far to incorporate it successfully in any big picture other then the sad state of balance we have today has failed.

Every patch there is something that goes wrong, either directly or indirectly and some are not even remedied at all..... do you even know what that actually means and represents!!! Lol don't even answer. If you truly had any good intentions for the future of the game you would say that AC should be taken into future balancing consideration at the very least. Whether or not they can successfully deal with it is an entirely different but not separate matter.

I'm not exactly sure what point you think I'm trying to make, but nowhere have I even attempted to make a statement on the overall effect AC has on the game. The only point I am trying to make is that the accusation that the combination of macros and AC can bypass the game's internal mechanics is ridiculous. I am aware that AC is not intentional, but rather a byproduct of the way they designed the combat. In fact, I am completely fine with them taking AC into balancing consideration. Since it is part of the game, it should at least be considered when balancing. While I think for the most part AC is fine the way it is, there are a couple weird AC combos that should be looked at (which they may already be doing with this whole "animation priority" thing coming next patch).

Casdha wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

And I'm sure that managing those 54 different macros in a fast paced battle is much easier and makes you much more effective than just learning the animation canceling and having full control over what you're doing at any given moment.

If we are being serious now, I don't use them for combat. My Keyboard profile is right here on this sight for all to see. You can check the last link in my signature. They may remove it tomorrow but it has been there for 8 months now.

Lol I'm not being serious. I'm just pointing out the fact that having a whole bunch of macros to manage is probably much more difficult than just doing the animation cancelling manually, since people seem to think that anybody who is good at animation cancelling must be running macros. I imagine that using macros is more disadvantageous than anything, and would be thoroughly shocked to find out that any of the best players are using them.

I know you weren't being serious. The start of that was to let folks know that the rest of it was serious.

I'm not intentionally hiding anything. I have the Hardware and software capable of using these things (as do many others), and I agree I see no advantage to it for myself in combat. I rarely do PvP or PVE where scores and leader boards come into play. Programming macros for these would be a waist of time for me as I just don't care about them that much.

Yeah, same here. I have one of those fancy mice with 12 buttons on the side, and it comes with software that can create macros. People can accuse me of using macros if they want, but I'd really hope that if I were doing something against the rules to give me a competitive advantage, I'd be a better player than I currently am.

Mumyo

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

I was just playing some PVP in Blackwater Blade when all of a sudden a Nightblade out of cloak hit me with 30 Surprise Attacks and 17 Wrecking Blows all in less than 10 milliseconds. This is clearly due to animation canceling and macros. I know it wasn't lag because the game didn't look laggy when it happened. I don't really understand how a macro works, or what it even is, but it clearly allows players to bypass the game's internal cooldowns so players can use an infinite number of abilities instantaneously.

Please, ZOS, for the love of all that is good and holy, ban these ridiculous animation cancel/macro exploits threads. They are destroying the game.

no, its just a animation bug. U hit the wb and push 2 lights as fast as u can to clip the animation.... u then can spam surprise attack before the wb hits.
It's not macro. Its bad animation design by zos.

Leandor

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Awwww. People arent playing to your unnecessary and self gimping playstyle. What a shame, because only you have skill and know whats best for the community.

If you have to resort to lying and down right manipulating things to further your agenda. Its not a worth while agenda.

If there is an issue with the macros there are better ways of approaching it then creating fabrications and then jumping on blatantly obvious fabrications as evidence to get ZOS to look at it. But your comment at the top of the page 2 is a strong indicator that the GCD isnt the issue but your ego and attitude that others should have to play your way cause 'skill' is at the heart of why youre in the middle of this debate.

Ahahahahahahahahahahaha

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

Leandor wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

Leandor wrote: »

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

Kinda scary the amount of people that don't immediately pick up on the joke, isn't it?

Not really scary for me so much as a reminder that there are people who frequent these forums that are so out of touch with the game and how it actually works/have an agenda and will use any lie or exaggeration to further their cause. That I cant help but look for the ignore button when ever they post.

Oh, you mean those that still insist on gcd being unavoidable? Yeah, that's getting ridiculous, I agree.

I'm sure that somehow there is a way to bypass the global cooldowns, but it would take much more than animation canceling and macros to do that. If there is a problem with people doing this, I am all for ZOS doing whatever they can to stop it, but it is very misguided to try to say that AC and macros are what allows this to happen.

The same functionality that makes animation cancelling possible (effects take place at the start of the animation, not at the end) makes both possible.

That is false. To explain this, I'll use what is probably the most common type of animation canceling, light attack weaving. For this we are using two different things, a light attack, and a skill. Each of these has a GCD (I think its one second but not entirely positive), but they each have their own GCD, rather than a shared one. What this means is that if I light attack, it will activate that GCD meaning I can't use another light attack until that cooldown ends. Likewise, if I use a skill, it activates that GCD, so I can't activate another skill until that cooldown ends. However, since the light attack and the skill have separate GCDs, I can use animation canceling to do one and then immediately do the other (in this case light attack ---AC---> skill). This only works because they are on separate cooldowns. This is in no way bypassing GCDs, but is rather activating two separate GCDs in rapid succession. After doing the light attack/skill combo, both of the GCDs have been activated, and I must wait for the cooldown in order to perform the combo again. Whether the effect occurs at the beginning of the animation or at the end doesn't change the fact that you still must wait for the cooldown to expire before using that ability again.

Have you tried learning animation canceling? It is actually really easy to do, and learning how to do it would give you a better understanding of how it actually works. Heck, if you're on NA PC I'll even go in game and teach you, and you'll quickly see that its not some huge OP thing that people seem to think it is.

Bash-cancel, anyone? Ever dodgecancelled a wb? I feck up the timing 90%, but I know that it works. It also cancels the animation of a cast-time skill, not fully but enough to initiate the next ability much faster than without. More importantly, nothing you wrote has anything to do with my statement. I know what AC is, how it works in theory and am able to pull off all kinds occasionally.

I do very well realize that animation cancelling is not allowing you to break gcd. But something is. The only thing I said is that in case the animation would have to play out before the effect is happening, both would be harmless.

Lyrander

Mumyo wrote: »

ColoursYouHave wrote: »

I was just playing some PVP in Blackwater Blade when all of a sudden a Nightblade out of cloak hit me with 30 Surprise Attacks and 17 Wrecking Blows all in less than 10 milliseconds. This is clearly due to animation canceling and macros. I know it wasn't lag because the game didn't look laggy when it happened. I don't really understand how a macro works, or what it even is, but it clearly allows players to bypass the game's internal cooldowns so players can use an infinite number of abilities instantaneously.

Please, ZOS, for the love of all that is good and holy, ban these ridiculous animation cancel/macro exploits threads. They are destroying the game.

no, its just a animation bug. U hit the wb and push 2 lights as fast as u can to clip the animation.... u then can spam surprise attack before the wb hits.
It's not macro. Its bad animation design by zos.

its not a bug.

otherwise people would get banned for bug-using.

When this whole animation canceling started there where tons of support tickets sent to report the "hackers!" (lol)
And i heard at some point zenimax stated that its "skill" not "hack" and not a "bug".

I say: they screwed up and now tell us it was meant this way.
Btw its also one of the things that happened to start around the same time as the server-lag