DPS Meters - Yes or No?

Jaeysa

Currently there's a thread going regarding if Group Damage and other DPS/HPS meters are a good thing or if they should be completely disabled. @Zos_GinaBruno commented with this:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

In our next incremental patch, we'll be including a fix so any addon that assigns names to combat events that don't involve the player will no longer be able to do so.

Poll is anonymous so that if people don't want the ravenous wolves of the forum community to pounce they can still feel comfortable voting

timidobserver

Fyi they are apparently ninja closing threads on this topic without explanation.

Gilliamtherogue

Honestly this addon actually took away from the elitest and abrasive attitude that some people tell stories about being kicked for not pulling high DPS. Before the only way to truly see someone's DPS was to have them post from an addon like FTC, Combat Analytics, or something else. These were many times doctored or flat out ignored by players, which usually ended up on them being black listed for lying or refusing to share their damage. Many guilds had to make the choice because in end game content you need to have a bench mark in order to actually complete content, and there was no way to see if a player was pulling their weight unless they complied. Refusing to comply meant they could either let them stay and forever not know, or to take the safe route and just not have them come again.

Now with GroupDamage I've actually been helping even more players learn more about their specs because I can see actual data in front of me to find out where they could be lacking. Before I wasn't able to send people tells saying things like, "Hey, noticed your damage is a little bit on the low end, are you interested in boosting your performance?" or something of the letter. Being the guild leader of NA's top PvE guild I often run with players who are trying to join our ranks, and GroupDamage was a massive boon that helped me determine if a player was qualified, or close to qualifying if they made some adjustments. I was able to walk by them step by step and notice flaws in where they'd spike and dip in damage based on rotation, mechanical issue, or just plain low damage output from shoddy gear choices. Not only this but this addon actually has brought a lot of friendly competition and drive back into players in our raids to put more effort forth. They know we all see the damage done and want to impress or improve, so they put in more work. Removing this puts us back to everyone just hiding their data and a lack of forward progress to be made.

Right when I think ZoS can't make any worse decisions than they already do, they just continue to impress me by how incompetent they are. If you want players to enjoy your game, you need to have a system in place that allows growth to occur. GroupDamage was finally a step in the right direction that was starting to allow the "elitests" to start realizing what other players struggle with, and help them. Yes, some underprivileged children or egotistical brats abused this system in the wrong way that made some other players feel excluded, but that is in the MASSIVE minority. This is like you removing crouch from game because a few players decide to t-bag others with crouching over and over. Stop letting the loudest and worst voices dictate your decision making.

Gilliamtherogue

timidobserver wrote: »

Fyi they are apparently ninja closing threads on this topic without explanation.

They've been locking or deleting any thread that questions their decision making lately. It's absolutely outrageous. Instead of trying to allow players to give their opinions on the direction they're moving, they silence us and say they're happy with they're doing.

Jaeysa

The reason I made this into a poll was for two reasons: 1, it gives a better view of where people stand. 2, it allows people to remain anonymous if they chose to. Not wanting to take over that thread, just supplement it.

wayfarerx

Wish I could vote for all three of the "DPS meters should be allowed" options.

Cuyler

Uh were not talking about ALL dps meters. The discussion is about no-opt out group damage addons. Why are you talking about regular dps addons?

Jaeysa

@Cuyler - the discussion turned into a debate on if Group Damage and others like it were good for the community/game.

SirAndy

There is a reason why i play mostly solo, including the group content.

There's always a dipstick who thinks he knows my character better than i do and can't think beyond the one rotation he's memorized.

I'm simply too old to put up with those narrow minded individuals ...

KallistaBlackheart

from the other basic poll. btw this one is way to complicated in reach for such small numbers.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

it is a useful tool that lets players evaluate the overall group capability and yes kick if needed those who clearly are not ready for the GROUP content they are participating in. before this as a tank or a dps i would need to guess and kick or leave based on said educated guess. after this addon i could pinpoint just how badly the offending players were and make a judgment to stay/leave or kick/help based on exactly how badly. if this does go away i will be back to the limited options of rough guessing and kicking as unfair as that is. this tool does not violate any privacy as once you are in a group and your contributions matter for the group it is no longer your private information as others rely on your performance. no this is not a job, yes your performance determines if the others will be wasting their time.

KallistaBlackheart

please go to this thread and vote.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/242482/group-damage-addons-yes-or-no

Jaeysa

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

from the other basic poll. btw this one is way to complicated in reach for such small numbers.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

it is a useful tool that lets players evaluate the overall group capability and yes kick if needed those who clearly are not ready for the GROUP content they are participating in. before this as a tank or a dps i would need to guess and kick or leave based on said educated guess. after this addon i could pinpoint just how badly the offending players were and make a judgment to stay/leave or kick/help based on exactly how badly. if this does go away i will be back to the limited options of rough guessing and kicking as unfair as that is. this tool does not violate any privacy as once you are in a group and your contributions matter for the group it is no longer your private information as others rely on your performance. no this is not a job, yes your performance determines if the others will be wasting their time.

Not really; 21 for allowing, 4 for disallowing. Everything else is fluff, but it's important fluff. It's important to know -why- people are against something, and this gives an easy snapshot of where people fall.

As for the other poll, I have voted, but as a point of note, this one was up first.

coolmodi

Yes, this is better, sample size is to small for either. But still more onteresting to see more than yes or no.

Jaeysa

Yeah; I was keeping it in this section because I saw one of the general discussion threads had been closed. Wishing I had just thrown it there despite. Ah well.

coolmodi

Jaeysa wrote: »

I was keeping it in this section because I saw one of the general discussion threads had been closed.

Aaaaaand it's gone. The other vote was closed. Seems like any thread about this topic will be closed.

Nestor

If you need a DPS Meter to know if the group you are in is any good or not, your not paying attention to the group.

Jaeysa

coolmodi wrote: »

Jaeysa wrote: »

I was keeping it in this section because I saw one of the general discussion threads had been closed.

Aaaaaand it's gone. The other vote was closed. Seems like any thread about this topic will be closed.

Which is stupid since it reached more people than this one and had a different function than the other thread.

Xjcon

Nestor wrote: »

If you need a DPS Meter to know if the group you are in is any good or not, your not paying attention to the group.

If I'm paying attention to the group I'm spying.

Decado

This kinda add on helps more than it hinders, like when VICP was at its hardest and on the second boss the full burn tactic required 70k group DPS IIRC (number might be slightly wrong but I think it was 70) now if we know for a fact the group cannot pull those numbers we are simply wasting our time trying that tactic so we need to move on to the next tactic and so on, same with avoiding the black hole manticora that requires a certain group DPS,

Is there any point trying a tactic if the group damage just isn't there? I would rather know and say look guys this isn't going to work so instead we will try this

Elitists and these people who think they are better than everyone else are always going to be around, they don't need to see numbers to think your crap they already think it, why bother with those people,

However the guys who actually want to help it could be good to know, oh your a magicka dragonknight pulling X DPS, well
We know these builds can pull up to X so let's see what we can do about improving yours, and each time they get better

I remember doing a DPS test with a guy a long time ago and he knew what DPS I pulled by the length of the fight, he told me you pulled this, we can improve that and you know what? He did he spend some time with me and really helped me, so I always try and return the favour when I get a chance to do the same

All high end PvEers are not arseholes,

SkylarkAU

Maybe there should be PvE ranks for veteran dungeons and trials in a similar way there are PvP ranks?

lolo_01b16_ESO

Nestor wrote: »

If you need a DPS Meter to know if the group you are in is any good or not, your not paying attention to the group.

But if I'm not in a perfect group I need a group dps meter to optimize my personal skill set up.
Even if I ask both dds to link their gear and watch their rotation and weaving, it's hard to decide which buffs are worth using and which are not. (Thinking about warhorn, combat prayer, any dawns wrath skill, ...)

Function

I swear Zenimax is putting their own game into the grave.. "fixing" things that don't need fixing and not fixing major issues that needed fixing a long time ago.

Artis

Not only should they be allowed, but also training dummies must be added in game, so we can practice DPS on targets with the infinite amount of health and which won't attack you.

Jaeysa

@Artemis - Two threads you might be interested in:
First
Second

Soafee

After seeing what DPS meters did to a game I won't name. I'm going to say don't do it... People started focusing on how much DPS a person can do rather then if they can do mechanics. People don't group with each other for fun anymore. It's changed the player base into real jerks.

Bluepitbull13

Soafee wrote: »

After seeing what DPS meters did to a game I won't name. I'm going to say don't do it... People started focusing on how much DPS a person can do rather then if they can do mechanics. People don't group with each other for fun anymore. It's changed the player base into real jerks.

How about it being used with fellow accomplished guildies that already know the mechanics and at this point is being able to multi-task the mechanics while keeping the highest possible DPS out there?

timidobserver

Soafee wrote: »

After seeing what DPS meters did to a game I won't name. I'm going to say don't do it... People started focusing on how much DPS a person can do rather then if they can do mechanics. People don't group with each other for fun anymore. It's changed the player base into real jerks.

Long time WoW people are so annoying. They leave WoW and then go to other games with a chip on their shoulder to whine about why it's bad to do anything that WoW does.

Didgerion

Jaeysa wrote: »

Currently there's a thread going regarding if Group Damage and other DPS/HPS meters are a good thing or if they should be completely disabled.

It is always nice to have some statistics of what your teammates are doing....for different reasons:
- if you see they do more dps then you can ask for advices
- if you see they are doing bad dps you can give them advices
- Some content is a dps race....and you can check if the person who said he can do high DPS really does it.
But here is a big con for it:
- group DPS meter decreases the performance (and that's an issue with one of the highest priority on ZOS list now)


But the personal DPS meters will still be there...so you just can nicely ask a team member to share his numbers.

So it is technically a small inconvenience for a big advantage(I hope)

Jaeysa

timidobserver wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Soafee wrote: »

After seeing what DPS meters did to a game I won't name. I'm going to say don't do it... People started focusing on how much DPS a person can do rather then if they can do mechanics. People don't group with each other for fun anymore. It's changed the player base into real jerks.

How about it being used with fellow accomplished guildies that already know the mechanics and at this point is being able to multi-task the mechanics while keeping the highest possible DPS out there?

Long time WoW people are so annoying. They leave WoW and then go to other games with a chip on their shoulder to whine about why it's bad to do anything that WoW does.

Are you kidding? If ESO gave RP-flags and DPS-meters half the support that wow does I'd be a happy, happy person.

@Didgerion - How does Group Damage decrease performance?

Didgerion

Jaeysa wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

Soafee wrote: »

After seeing what DPS meters did to a game I won't name. I'm going to say don't do it... People started focusing on how much DPS a person can do rather then if they can do mechanics. People don't group with each other for fun anymore. It's changed the player base into real jerks.

How about it being used with fellow accomplished guildies that already know the mechanics and at this point is being able to multi-task the mechanics while keeping the highest possible DPS out there?

Long time WoW people are so annoying. They leave WoW and then go to other games with a chip on their shoulder to whine about why it's bad to do anything that WoW does.

Are you kidding? If ESO gave RP-flags and DPS-meters half the support that wow does I'd be a happy, happy person.

@Didgerion - How does Group Damage decrease performance?

Does WOW have 50 vs 50 battles? Why wont you ask wow to support that type of fights and then we will see how DPS-meters are supported then

eliisra

They should be allowed but optional. As in you would have to go and actively tick a certain option if you feel like sharing dps with the group.

No one's dps should be shared unwillingly. But people that feel the need to share(elite PvE guilds for example), would no longer have to copy paste and link their dps manually after every single boss fight. I mean, it gets old.

Just know from personal experience, I dont want to share my dps when I'm learning a new boss + mechanic. At that point I want to focus on understanding the fight and not *** up. That's way harder to do when you're monitored and stressed out by the groups dps-police