Stamina Regen While Blocking

Molag_Crow

Who else thinks that it would have been a better idea if Stamina Regen was slowed down by 50%(?) while you block, rather than completely stopping, like now?

xellink

nope, when cps caps are raised, people will start block casting again. Also promotes bad habits.

Khaos_Bane

I agree with @xellink

Molag_Crow

xellink wrote: »

nope, when cps caps are raised, people will start block casting again. Also promotes bad habits.

I see... so this is why we can't have nice things?

ShadowDisciple

Crows srs you became annoying. Just git gud

Jhunn

xellink wrote: »

nope, when cps caps are raised, people will start block casting again. Also promotes bad habits.

And so what? Loads of counters to block casting, especially these patches.

Removing stam regen while blocking is one of the most stupid decisions ZOS has made, and that says a lot.

Molag_Crow

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Crows srs you became annoying. Just git gud

I'm only asking a general question.

Molag_Crow

Jhunn wrote: »

xellink wrote: »

nope, when cps caps are raised, people will start block casting again. Also promotes bad habits.

And so what? Loads of counters to block casting, especially these patches.

Removing stam regen while blocking is one of the most stupid decisions ZOS has made, and that says a lot.

Agreed, it's a nightmare as well because we HAVE to block to dodge roll on console. Let that sink in, PC players...

Miszou

I liked how tanking worked in Tera.

You could only block while you had enough resources to do so, and the only way to gain resources was to attack. This meant that tanks absolutely *HAD* to intersperse their blocks with attacks and couldn't just stand there with their shield raised all day.

And it sort of works the same in ESO - heavy attacks restore stamina, which is required to block. Makes perfect sense to me and I like it just how it is.

Molag_Crow

Miszou wrote: »

I liked how tanking worked in Tera.

You could only block while you had enough resources to do so, and the only way to gain resources was to attack. This meant that tanks absolutely *HAD* to intersperse their blocks with attacks and couldn't just stand there with their shield raised all day.

And it sort of works the same in ESO - heavy attacks restore stamina, which is required to block. Makes perfect sense to me and I like it just how it is.

But for a Magicka User it's mean

leepalmer95

There should be a delay of about .5 seconds before the 0 regen ticks in, still having troubles on console with the fact bash/dodge roll requires you to block, you lose stamina ticks and have sustain issue.

Molag_Crow

leepalmer95 wrote: »

There should be a delay of about .5 seconds before the 0 regen ticks in, still having troubles on console with the fact bash/dodge roll requires you to block, you lose stamina ticks and have sustain issue.

Yeah I hate that, I had to roll with drinks for ages for 1k stam regen.

Personally, I think the base stam regen for magicka users should be increased to at least 600-700, just my thoughts. Hah

failkiwib16_ESO

You block to dodgeroll on consoles? O_O
>.<

At least before that nerf, tanks struggled less and new unexperienced players didn't just give up tanking for dd role.

There is no need for regen while blocking, the community still functions as a whole, but it is a huge disadvantage. We are missing tanks so bad for pve now, that I do most of my pledges without a tank. It's doable but also messy..

Bazeric

My idea that I had (which I imagine is impractical given the state of client/sever interaction any more)
was to have regen progressively slow.

Such as:
66% regen first 3 seconds of block
33% regen 3-6 seconds of holding block
0% regen if held for more than 6 seconds
(Or adjust accordingly i.e. 1/3/5 seconds or 50%/25%/0% what ever numbers accomplished the most "balance")

But hey! CP because people needed something to work for when they got bored from lack of content. Now they can complain about easymode/broken pvp.

Yeah for CP! (Sarcasm)

leepalmer95

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

You block to dodgeroll on consoles? O_O
>.<

At least before that nerf, tanks struggled less and new unexperienced players didn't just give up tanking for dd role.

There is no need for regen while blocking, the community still functions as a whole, but it is a huge disadvantage. We are missing tanks so bad for pve now, that I do most of my pledges without a tank. It's doable but also messy..

Have to hold block to bash as well.

My sustain on my s+b is terrible even with 2k regen my stamina just vanishes mainly because of don't regen when attacking and also because when i'm not attacking i'm usually healing and dodge rolling e.g. No regen ticks either way.

I should really just go stick wb on and 2 hit people with the dodgy cc/range and it's insane dmg...

Wollust

Removing regen while blocking just screwed the classes without other defensive mechanics. What a stupid idea it was.

leepalmer95

Wollust wrote: »

Removing regen while blocking just screwed the classes without other defensive mechanics. What a stupid idea it was.

It's funny how they never achieved anything either, theres still perma blocking tanks.

Decayed_Inside

On dailies lately we don't even roll with a tank. 3 DPS and one healer. Burn everything before the mechanics even start with overload

PainfulFAFA

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Wollust wrote: »

Removing regen while blocking just screwed the classes without other defensive mechanics. What a stupid idea it was.

It's funny how they never achieved anything either, theres still perma blocking tanks.

Not really. They just know how to play.
These "perma blocking" tanks are DKs, using pots, taking advantage of their passives to get Stamina back, using Ultis to gain back resources, know when not to block to gain back some stamina.

Remember, as long as they are taking damage, they will keep losing stamina (i.e. caltrops, light attacks, spammable dps)
No stamina regen while blocking is fine.

Forestd16b14_ESO

Or maybe allow 100% stamina regen while blocking when wearing 5+ pieces of HA only instead.

revonine

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

You block to dodgeroll on consoles? O_O
>.<

At least before that nerf, tanks struggled less and new unexperienced players didn't just give up tanking for dd role.

There is no need for regen while blocking, the community still functions as a whole, but it is a huge disadvantage. We are missing tanks so bad for pve now, that I do most of my pledges without a tank. It's doable but also messy..

L2 is Block, L2 + X is dodge roll, L2 + R2 is bash. It's an amazing recipe for butter fingers.

TotterTates

revonine wrote: »

failkiwib16_ESO wrote: »

You block to dodgeroll on consoles? O_O
>.<

At least before that nerf, tanks struggled less and new unexperienced players didn't just give up tanking for dd role.

There is no need for regen while blocking, the community still functions as a whole, but it is a huge disadvantage. We are missing tanks so bad for pve now, that I do most of my pledges without a tank. It's doable but also messy..

L2 is Block, L2 + X is dodge roll, L2 + R2 is bash. It's an amazing recipe for butter fingers.

How many cliffs have you dodgeroll-dived off of while trying to interrupt a mob?

Autolycus

As an up-front disclaimer: This post specifically is not meant to address hybrid builds, CP requirements, or the "need" for a true tank in most of today's content. Admittedly, all of those are legitimate factors, but for the purpose of this discussion, I plan to focus on just the stam recovery while blocking.

I've found this question actually varies substantially with class, but is still manageable on any of them. I run with DK and Templar tanks now that still permablock & block cast. Personally, I'm a NB tank and 0% stam regen while blocking has had absolutely no impact on me since it went live, and I have been permablocking since. In fact, even with this change, I still have an easier time with resources the larger the pull is.

I've switched away from the Serpent for tanking (which is stam recovery) and removed points in stamina, and virtually everything else remained the same (except I switched a 5set hist bark for a 5 set of leeching, which occurred in the IC update, and came with this specific change). The switch was because I run a hybrid build on my main, and wanted to bias more towards damage without sacrificing survivability.

When IC first released, I proposed that same question as the OP: Should it be 50% instead? I think it's a good idea, but frankly I don't think it matters anymore. the only fight that even comes close to draining my stamina is Molag Kena in WGT, and even then it's really not a problem. I still permablock, dodge roll virtually everything, and can kite the storm atronachs if they are targeting me as the tank indefinitely (yes, I can kite them for as long the dps could possibly need, dodge rolls and all). I don't ask for shards or repentance, I don't have to use many stamina potions, and I don't run any skills designed specifically for stamina recovery, except for siphoning attacks (which is really all a NB tank needs).

I realize this is not the case for every tank. Some of it has to do with experience, some of it gear, and some of it class. Still, at this point in time, I don't think changing it to 50% reduction really matters. In PvP this becomes increasingly more difficult, but still I don't struggle for resources (because of being a NB) and between leeching and siphoning attacks, I can stand in 30-man zergs by myself, being focused by the majority, and still have my resources and health capped off. Usually, the only time I fall to these zergs is when a particular wombo is used (such as fear + massive damage before I can break free, which I usually have plenty of stamina to break free immediately). I only have about 13k max stamina and roughly 1200 stam recovery in my tank build.

Not sure if I'm in the minority with respect to community opinion here, but I fall more in this category here:

Wollust wrote: »

Removing regen while blocking just screwed the classes without other defensive mechanics.

because when I am on my other characters or builds, I suffer quite a bit from not being able to recover while blocking, even in duels. I don't rely on blocking all that much, and I rarely even try permablocking or block-casting on anything but my tank spec, but it does happen from time to time.

I'm genuinely interested in hearing what other DK, Sorc, and Temp tanks think. What things do you guys do specifically as a result of no stam regen? Has it really impacted you guys much? It barely changed anything for me. In fact, there are two reasons I even changed gear when IC released:

1. Hist Bark no longer stacks with Double Take
2. Leeching is the real deal, seriously. It's my favorite set in the game currently. Massive damage and OP heals, scaling linearly per additional target (which is moreso true with a thaumaturge / spell damage build as a NB tank).

So what do you guys think? Sorry for long post, this one is pretty intriguing, even if the concept is 3 months old.

Browiseth

I saw a suggestion once to allow stamina to continue regenerating for a few seconds (maybe 4-6 seconds?) after blocking; after which the regen would stop
it's a good idea imo and helps promote a lot more smart play

GreenSoup2HoT

I think there were many actions's that could of been done to perma blocking and rolling instead of the change's that occurred to them.

Perma blocking could of been changed to 25% or 50% or 75%. Why straight to 100%? This has become a huge problem for console because we do not have a separate key for bash like pc has.

Perma rolling could of also been changed to many different value's as well. 25% extra after each roll seem's fine but to have the cool-down reset after every roll seem's stupid. It should be a static 4 second's after rolling where it cost's more. This is where player's who roll a lot would be penalized. However for instance if i roll once every 3.5 second's the cost's keep's stacking and stacking, for most stamina build's this was a mean's of mitigating damage once in a while.

Now rolling and blocking are just not really utilized because healing through damage is just the way to go. All the IC change's were just flat out stupid ( other then bug fixes ).

Both of these mechanic's were fine game play wise to an extent. I blame Engine Guardian to be a huge culprit for these nerf's. Without the stamina return on this monster set, you were just draining your stamina trying to perma block/roll. This EG set return was just too great.

Not once in 1.6 did i hate on perma rolling or blocking player's.

In the end, the value's and mechanic's should not of been changed so drastically. These change's are just blanket cover up's to ""problem's"" QQ'ers whined about imo.

leepalmer95

Browiseth wrote: »

I saw a suggestion once to allow stamina to continue regenerating for a few seconds (maybe 4-6 seconds?) after blocking; after which the regen would stop
it's a good idea imo and helps promote a lot more smart play

4-6 is too much, maybe 1 at most, though it could be exploited in 1v1 when tanks would still be perma blocking by just timing the blocks.

Though i suppose if you weave it'll be hard for them to block all the damage correctly.

OGLezard

I am 100% ok with permaderps as long as you can NOT cast skills while blocking.

DaveMoeDee

xellink wrote: »

nope, when cps caps are raised, people will start block casting again. Also promotes bad habits.

I don't care about CP caps.

I don't agree with breaking blocking for all players just because of CP buffs. Horrible "solution".

ShadowDisciple

CrowsDescend wrote: »

ShadowDisciple wrote: »

Crows srs you became annoying. Just git gud

I'm only asking a general question.

you asked a general question and 2-3 posts later you classified the object of your question as a "nice thing to have".

Well it isnt..it just promotes a "block and load" type of playstyle that doesent benefit anyone...DD's have to do good rotations, Healers need to keep an eye on EVERYONE and Tank has to keep an eye on resources and let go off block once in a while... its finee..

the ppl who tank now are good tanks and rarely i see a bad one because of the sole purpose that it is hard to be a tank nowadays and once who comitt...suceed..

BUT NO PLS... ZOS LISTEN, ALUCARDO AND CROW NEED STAMINA RECHARGE ON BLOCK AND NEED YOU TO NER NB'S AND WRECKING BLOW PLSSSSS.... cuz otherwise they cant do squat..

At least before we had tons of ppl qqing...now only nerf threads are by you 2..

p.s. there is thread right now that says that (and lsiteb to this) : "trolls are too hard to kill in cyrodill cuz your battle leveled"...
trolls...realy???

Gamerscape2007

I like that idea, tbh. Couldn't they replace the current Ha passive from Constitution for this? I mean it's a way better passive than getting a very small amount of stam and magicka every 4 seconds.

Browiseth

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Browiseth wrote: »

I saw a suggestion once to allow stamina to continue regenerating for a few seconds (maybe 4-6 seconds?) after blocking; after which the regen would stop
it's a good idea imo and helps promote a lot more smart play

4-6 is too much, maybe 1 at most, though it could be exploited in 1v1 when tanks would still be perma blocking by just timing the blocks.

Though i suppose if you weave it'll be hard for them to block all the damage correctly.

1 second would mean nothing with how laggy this game can be. the specifics don't really matter anyway. it was just an idea
on the subject of abusing the system though; just give blocking the dodge roll treatment. if you raise your shield or whatever to many times in a given time frame (so if we give ourselves a regen period of 3 seconds, raising/lowering your shield more than once in 3 seconds would automatically halt regen, and you'd have to wait out the 2 seconds for it to start again)