ZOS_RichLambert is not lurking anymore...

Personofsecrets

Good riddance

Magdalina

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I don't blame him. You seen the state of these forums lately?

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

Actually they're not. They're reflecting the state of the maturity and patience of the player base.

Criticism is to be expected. Shouting, throwing your toys out of the pram and threatening to quit because they're not giving you everything you want shouldn't be.

People want to leave? Go ahead. Nobody cares.

Actually I vaguely remember these forums being a much, MUCH better place shortly after launch(and it wasn't due to the game having less bugs). People would be complaining and blaming ZOS for this and that as well, but other people would be protecting them with nice, thought out, constructive posts. People would be full of optimism and constructive suggestions. It was weird for me back then to see people kind of just freaking out and threatening to leave, I thought the same way you did.

But it kind of changed with time and now I understand those people. I don't like loudly freaking out and I'm not leaving(I'm not paying ZOS anything unless it's for actual content either though; don't want to "support" them anymore) but I feel for them. Way too many things have been ignored and there's WAY too little communication. I have no doubts running a huge game like that with so many different types of customers is super complicated but it's not a good enough excuse anymore. That's not a good enough excuse for REPEATEDLY making promises which you don't deliver. It's not an excuse for pushing known MAJOR bugs live. Honestly I think everyone here would have MUCH less issues with ZOS if they just came out and TALKED TO US MORE(you can argue they don't do it now because of the negative state of the forums but their lack of communication is what made forums like that first of all). And if they openly admitted their mistakes and apologized for them.

I'm not sure if you were here for this but one period of time on forums that stands out in particular was right before ESO went b2p. The rumour had been all over and a lot of people were freaking out over it but a LOT of people were protecting ZOS. They were saying this'd never happen as ZOS promised to never do that, and even if it were to happen surely ZOS would give them some kind of warning. It lasted for quite a while and people were still desperately defending ZOS but begging for some kind of information but they've all just been silent. For...weeks I think?
And then they went b2p. Just like that. And announced it like best thing ever.
Was it necessary for the good of the game/their only choice? Yeah maybe. Did it make a LOT of people who were formerly very loyal and trying to be constructive feel betrayed and bitter? Definitely.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall of text

Gidorick

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

Where my lurks at @ZOS_RichLambert I really wanted a /lurk for my undaunted overhaul

That wasn't a "constructive" post apparently.

Kupoking

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I don't blame him. You seen the state of these forums lately?

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

Actually they're not. They're reflecting the state of the maturity and patience of the player base.

Criticism is to be expected. Shouting, throwing your toys out of the pram and threatening to quit because they're not giving you everything you want shouldn't be.

People want to leave? Go ahead. Nobody cares.

And how did they deal with constructive criticism in the past? Do you think they did a good job in this area? Enlighten me.

Gladly.

Tons of stuff in this game has been a direct result of player feedback.

Vet levels (seeing Tamriel on one character)
First person mode
Champion System
Removal of Veteran Levels
More interactable objects in the world
PVP changes
Many many nerfs



I agree that a little more information would be lovely. But acting like spoiled children is not the way to go about getting more information.

Of all the things listed:

3 were made in beta/early release
1 have not been made yet and been yet promised for over a year
2 are extremely subjective (reminds me of removal of pvp caps which majority of population was agaisnt, but also think of siege damage roller coaster)
1 was extremely poorly designed and cost the developper's job

FortheloveofKrist

JD2013 wrote: »

Gladly.
...
Lag in Cyrodiil? Yea that's a problem. We know and they sure as heck know that it's a problem as they mention it on EVERY ESO live. Think you can do better? Get a job with them and fix it.

I agree that a little more information would be lovely. But acting like spoiled children is not the way to go about getting more information.

DAAAAA!!....Agree 175%

I think SNL did a sketch mocking ESO forum users. Yup, here it is https://youtu.be/xjzzLelV0Y0

DaveMoeDee

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I don't blame him. You seen the state of these forums lately?

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

Actually they're not. They're reflecting the state of the maturity and patience of the player base.

Criticism is to be expected. Shouting, throwing your toys out of the pram and threatening to quit because they're not giving you everything you want shouldn't be.

People want to leave? Go ahead. Nobody cares.

It is certain players. Those happen to be loud players. Based on my limited knowledge from people I've played with in guilds, people seem to be enjoying the game. The players are also generally mature.

Zinaroth

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

Word on the street is that you're more likely to get constructive posts when you have a constructive approach on the show where you broadcast news about your product. Incase I am not being precise enough; saying "ETA" ten times, not talking about or showcasing the new DLC that appearently is ready to hit PTS in two weeks, answering silly lore questions when everyone was expecting concrete content showcase, having the game director answering question about ecnonomy and BoE drops with "we want crafting to matter and don't want people to out-level stuff" and having Kai Schrober go crazy with the Twitch chat banning on people using a certain emote that was relevant to the show and discussion isn't very constructive. Taking all this frag as a community manager must be very tough and I hope you have some thick skin, and congratulations on the pregnancy, but I can't help but feel that the outburst of negativity following the ESO Live show is mainly warranted, albeit some people always tend to go over the top in their criticism.

Pheefs

Jura23 wrote: »

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

not really... I'm not saying the game is perfect, but forums are always more negative & this one is MORE-more so!

happy players play, and spend way less time here in forum land.

Spottswoode

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I don't blame him. You seen the state of these forums lately?

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

Actually they're not. They're reflecting the state of the maturity and patience of the player base..

Actually it's both. Perception will eventually become reality.

Frankly, developers have an increasing need to defend their design positions in an adversarial enviroment. The current state of the forums should have been expected as console players are now "settled in" from their more recent release and a good deal of the PC players don't feel like much has changed for the better. Console players are now conforming some agreements in line with those criticisms.

There are some frank realities that need to be addressed:
1. People are [snip]. Complaining is the one skill everyone has and uses. Unfortunately, not many of us are good at using it to make things better and tend to use it as a means of power over others instead of a means to seek improvement of a mutually unsatisfactory situation. Most of us also aren't coherent enough or articulate enough to accomplish the latter. The ineffectiveness of our complaining eventually becomes pure frustration and gradually turns into antagonism.
2. Universal perfection is an impossibility. One man's garbage is another man's treasure, as the saying goes. Unfortunately, when it's a group of men on each side this tends to form an antagonistic relationship. The developers get caught in the middle of this.
3. Game balance is an ongoing process. It's not done, it will never be done, and as soon as it's bearable something new will cause all hell to break loose. In line with the "perfection is an impossibility", a perpetually balanced game is also an impossibility.
4. The name of the game is money. The almighty dollar trumps all. Profit is a necessity and if addressing issues that will bring about higher profits comes into conflict with issues that will improve player satisfaction, profits win almost every time. They need to keep people employed, keep the lights on, and keep the servers running. Sadly, even game balance and bug fixes comes secondary to that need.
5. Impasses created by conflict will be resolved slowly. It takes time to break down barriers and it takes time for people to get over their USI.
6. Complainers frequently have good points. They also frequently do not. They can be incapable of determining which is which. Some people are fundamentally incapable of accepting they are unremarkable.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

nimander99

One of my favorite things was to see a /lurk on a thread and then I remember some crybaby snarked about him /lurking and not saying anything and he hasn't /lurked as much since then.

nimander99

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

This actually plays into my belief that he only /lurked in threads that had something to do with upcoming content... kinda a nod and a wink to those clever enough to figure it out.

Mojmir

People have been [snip] on forums forever,nothing new.in that sense should have seen this coming and expected it.its part of the job to listen to all forms of feedback.things people have been complaining about the SAME things since the beginning.i don't need a lurk, i need fixes to horrendous lag.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

jowww97

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

Sure, we always try to bring more constructive posts, actually we do this all the time. We have players who waste their time to prepare a full list of bugs for you, bring a full list of most complains about the game for you, to give you ideas to make this game better. I'm sure we are doing this because we care about the game, we like to play it, but we have the same problems for a long time and yet you didnt fix it. The last ESO live was pathetic. All we heard was: We know about all the problems and we are going to fix it! Eventually, no ETA.

I should copy and paste the messages I exchange with the support to this forum. Support knows about this bug (fighter's guild stuck at 9), they are going to fix it, but NO ETA. I have the same problem for 6 months now.

We complain so much because the old problems are still in this game and it is not fixed.

Decayed_Inside

He's probably busy working on the two dlc coming up

NBrookus

Nifty2g wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Rich hasn't been arrested. He still silently lurks the forums daily, but word on the street is that you're more likely to get a /lurk out of him with constructive posts.

Where my lurks at @ZOS_RichLambert I really wanted a /lurk for my undaunted overhaul

It deserves it; those are some awesome, creative ideas.

sylviermoone

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

Jura23 wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

I don't blame him. You seen the state of these forums lately?

Forums are only reflecting state of the game.

Actually they're not. They're reflecting the state of the maturity and patience of the player base.

Criticism is to be expected. Shouting, throwing your toys out of the pram and threatening to quit because they're not giving you everything you want shouldn't be.

People want to leave? Go ahead. Nobody cares.

And how did they deal with constructive criticism in the past? Do you think they did a good job in this area? Enlighten me.

Gladly.

Tons of stuff in this game has been a direct result of player feedback.

Vet levels (seeing Tamriel on one character)
First person mode
Champion System
Removal of Veteran Levels
More interactable objects in the world
PVP changes
Many many nerfs

All because of the player base.

Now you can go ahead and tell me that ZOS doesn't listen, that ZOS is the devil and they don't care about their player base but I rather think that the above list of changes as a direct result of player screaming feedback nullifies that point.

Lag in Cyrodiil? Yea that's a problem. We know and they sure as heck know that it's a problem as they mention it on EVERY ESO live. Think you can do better? Get a job with them and fix it.

I agree that a little more information would be lovely. But acting like spoiled children is not the way to go about getting more information.

/cheer

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

People get more jaded as time progresses. An infant has no concept of the world around them. They don't know what the world is so its all fresh and exciting. As they age, that freshness fades and the excitement dulls.

This is true for all things.