Don't think they don't see

Joshuagm1991 · January 2016

So when playstation 4s network was down I was curious how World of Warcraft was doing. I noticed they implemented something huge that if I remember right people spoke of on the forums as an idea: A Monk class.

Just wanted to encourage anyone that is their idea is good enough / popular enough. The developers will hear or see it.

Nestor · January 2016

We have not had a Viable Monk since Morrowind with the Unarmored and Unarmed Skill lines. You could kind of make one in Oblivion, you could dress like a Monk in Skyrim, but not really play one.

It would be an interesting class to play.

acw37162 · January 2016

I third this if it fits the lore

NewBlacksmurf · January 2016

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

ZioGio · January 2016

Unarmed and illusion are two things I would look forward to in ESO. I've already suggested them through the game client's suggestion feature.

Gidorick · January 2016

In that case... hey @TheShadowScout ! Can you paste your awesome class morph idea?

srfrogg23 · January 2016

I could see monks being a thing in ESO, maybe not as a class but as a weapon skill line with Fist weapons that have martial arts type attacks- kicks, punches, and the like. Then you could turn any class into a "monk" archetype and would probably result in some pretty crazy and interesting builds.

catalyst10e · January 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

An argument could be made that Templars are like Crusaders, and tho DragonKnight wasnt in any game, Nightblades and Sorcerers were. Monk was a class in Oblivion, specializing in unarmed and bow. Bow needs to be looked at anyways, and unarmed would be a cool thing to implement, maybe even hand wraps so unarmed isnt losing out on certain stats and set pieces.

Joshuagm1991 · January 2016

Nestor wrote: »

We have not had a Viable Monk since Morrowind with the Unarmored and Unarmed Skill lines. You could kind of make one in Oblivion, you could dress like a Monk in Skyrim, but not really play one.

It would be an interesting class to play.

Oh my gosh, I totally forgot about unarmored. Though at the moment seems to be light armor. I could see that working with a shift from medium skill traits to light. Though I don't know what could be applied to medium traits.

Definitely something interesting to explore.

Kalifas · January 2016

Brawler?

Joshuagm1991 · January 2016

catalyst10e wrote: »

show previous quotes

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

An argument could be made that Templars are like Crusaders, and tho DragonKnight wasnt in any game, Nightblades and Sorcerers were. Monk was a class in Oblivion, specializing in unarmed and bow. Bow needs to be looked at anyways, and unarmed would be a cool thing to implement, maybe even hand wraps so unarmed isnt losing out on certain stats and set pieces.

I think Dragonknight would be considered dragonborn from skyrim. That's always how I looked at it.

RAGUNAnoOne · January 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

Nightblade is in Morrowind and Oblivion I think it is even in Daggerfall

catalyst10e · January 2016

Joshuagm1991 wrote: »

show previous quotes

catalyst10e wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

An argument could be made that Templars are like Crusaders, and tho DragonKnight wasnt in any game, Nightblades and Sorcerers were. Monk was a class in Oblivion, specializing in unarmed and bow. Bow needs to be looked at anyways, and unarmed would be a cool thing to implement, maybe even hand wraps so unarmed isnt losing out on certain stats and set pieces.

I think Dragonknight would be considered dragonborn from skyrim. That's always how I looked at it.

Dragonborn would imply either their bloodline is tied to the Septims or they COULD use a thuum more easily then other people. The class info to me doesn't suggest either, but looks more like a spellsword what with their fire abilities and physical prowess.

TheShadowScout · January 2016

Did someone call for my class morph idea?
Well... here, lemme repost it:

Personally I would think the best way to add more "classes" is to give each class, say, three different "class morphs", each with its own new skill/passives line. Perhaps becoming available after completing cadwells silver/gold... to reward people who do play through that – which incidentally would also give people the whole of cadwells gold to focus on making this new skill line… (a "reward" for finishing cadwells gold might be some alliance change quest, but that is another topic, to be discussed elsewhere…)
Some possibilities:

Dragonknight
• Gladiator (offensive self buffs & warcries; color: red/orange)
• Pyromancer (flame resist and even more fire; color: yellow/blue - gas flame!)
• Warlord (defensive group buffs, AoE standards, color: purple/gold)

Nightblade
• Illusionist (illusion summoning, mind magic; color: red/black - NPC illusionist)
• Monk (melee support & assorted “martial arts” magic; color: blue/purple)
• Ranger (animal summoning and nature magic; color: brown/green)

Sorceror
• Cryomancer (ice magic, color: white/clear - NPC cryomancer)
• Necromancer (death magic and undead summoning; color: cyan - NPC coldfire)
• Spellsword (melee support & buff magic; color: yellow/orange – golden lightning!)

Templar
• Shaman (nature magic, totems, summons; color: green/brown)
• Crusader (melee support and aura-style buff magic; color: white/gold – holy light)
• Witch-hunter (counterspells, spell resistance/shields, silencing; color: purple/red)

Another possible idea was to not only have an added skill line with its own flavor of visual effects, but maybe even morph the existing effects to match.
So for example if a sorceror goes necromancer, their spells might be color-shifted to necromancer "coldfire" cyan, and if they turn cryomancer, their dark magic crystals will turn ice-ish in effects, spells will get color-shifted to white-blue or white-purple, or a nightblade going ranger would have their reddish effects recolored to something nature-ish green & brown... that sort of stuff. For more visual goodieness and varietee between classes.
Perhaps even morph the spell effects to some degree... like, for summoned armor might look daedric on normal sorc, worm cult / lich on necromancer, and ice armor on cryomancer, etc.
That idea might perhaps take a bit too much coding to be viable though... I'd be happy with pure color shifts.

...of course, all those quick ideas are just very rough concepts, without much consideration but character fluff. I merely tried to give some options, and went for three instead of just two "magica-specialization / stamina specialization" - It's supposed to be more for added character diversity then anything else after all.

Thus for example with nightblades, there might be one magica-caster based with "illusionist", one stamina melee based with "monk" (Yes, a nod at the old D&D class of the name, the first “martial arts” powered class I remember in fantasy gaming) and one pet based as "ranger" since nightblades mesh very well with bow, and giving them woodland creatures for the "hunter" playstyle would seem applicable.

Similar thoughts for the sorceror - spellsword for stamina sorcerors, cryomancer since ice staves have no matching skill line yet (while fire and lightning staves sort of have), and necromancer because all too many people really, really want that...

Templar... the druid/shaman is a very natural idea, between breton wyressess, argonian treeminders and bosmer spinners, nature magic meshes very well with Templar healing and sunlight-powered spells; crusader is for stamina templars as the class name has been appearing in TES games before, despite tamrielic religions having less a focus on "cross" then where the name originated, and my "witch-hunter" idea is kinda inspired by the spanish inquisition (Yes, I know noone expected that ), its "warhammer" imperial counterpart and also "Dragon Age", I admit it... seems logical to set up the aedric-flavored templars as natural enemies of the more deadric-flavored sorcerors...

Dragonknight I had the fewest ideas, since I kinda dislike that class. More fire magic for dragonknight magica-casters with pyromancer is a natural first thought... so then I went with "leader-style group play support" and "berserker-style single combatant" flavors, though there may be better ideas then those...

The skills itself are also just rough concepts - some I am quite happy with, others I feel might benefit from more thought and ideas… but it's a start I suppose, a proof of concept kind of notion, something like that… with ample room for refinement and reworking.
(also note that many of those I "borrowed" from existing mobs without knowing the actual in-game name of the abilities, just by remembering what I could from the time some mob used them unsuccessfully against one of my characters, so please, don't get too hung up on the names I used here, all right? )

In any case, since more diversity is always something I would love to see... much more fun having more choices in realizing your "perfect" character, especially since the limited number of skills one can actually use at any one time (5+U) makes people having to think and choose anyhow, so adding more active skills only increases a characters choices, not exactly their power...

And yes, spellcrafting might be able to cover some of those... but spellcrafting won't give you passives, which these skill lines should.

And now... some detailed thoughts about my take on "monk".

Since ESO has armor and weapon skill lines seperate, classes that are defined by those cannot really be implemented. Thus there are no "archers" - every class can learn to be an archer. Same with "monks" which generally are defined by classic martial arts movies - silk robes, dodging attacks, and punching people to death.

In game terms, the main point to that is an "unarmed" skill line. (since light armor can count as monks robes, and dodging is already a mechanic)

Now, that works well enough in martial arts movies, where the opponents are generally also unarmored martial arts mobs... but when your opponents might be anything from an armored knight to a dwemer centurion, punching them is way more likely to result in a fistful of broken fingerbones then a victory dance.
Does that mean we cannot have a "brawling" weapon skill line? No, it just means its difficult to implement without damaging immersion - there is a good reason people all over history, even martial artists, have picked up weapons when they went to do serious fighting. Just look at a great many "classic" martial arts traditions, you will notice the shaolin monks also play with a lot of weapons, you will notice that ninjas also have a lot of toys, you will notice unarmed combat was only part of every martial arts tradition.
Any such skill line might be usable both unarmed, and with "brawling" weapons like brass knuckles, punch daggers, cesti, chain wrapped around ones fist, gloves with horseshoes inside, stuff like that... and even with those should not match up to "proper" weapons in terms of damage done, but instead have attacks tailored to provide CC effects even to armored opponents. Grapple for a root. Leg sweep for a knockdown. Dirt thrown at their eyes for a blind. A dirty kick below the belt for a stun (double effect if used on male opponents?

) Stuff like that. I'd love to see such a line...

But that aside, because weapon lines are seperate in ESO, I left the issue of a "brawling" weapon line for weapon line discussions, and took a look at other things that are a staple of "martial arts" when thinking about my "monk" class morph. And the name is a nod at D&D, as well as a second choice because "Assassin" is already taken for a basic nightblade skill line. I'd just as well might call it "Agent" or something else... but I went with Monk for the time being since it most clearly shows the "martial arts" connection I am imagining for that morph.
I imagine it would give nightblades some martial artsy skills independent from any weapon choices, skills both appropiate for a shaolin monk, ninja, or whatever else character template one might go with. Things like... the acrobatic dodge-jump rouge NPCs do and we cannot, flash- and smoke-bombs for battlefield control, "precise strike" attacks for slipping a fist of blade in the gap between armor, perhaps a blowgun dart to fire at range for poison DoT, and of course some "martial arts rage scream" powerup/recovery we see soo often in the final fights of martial arts movies...

With this morph, I imagine one could build a classic "assassin" (medium armor, twin blades or bow, black hood and dark brotherhood lifetime membership card) as well as a classic "monk" (light armor with some medium pieces, brawling and chi-{aka magica}-powered special attacks while screaming out the name of your special moves when you do them... no, wait... that's anime, not ESO...

)

Sevalaricgirl · January 2016

Elder Scrolls Monks:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Monk

So yes, there were monks in Elder Scrolls and that would be an awesome new class.

LoreRiley · January 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

How about we go with the abilities and class skills but call it something that ppl say is more lore friendly.

No class in the game has been in TES (maybe I'm wrong) so why start now?

I seen em in previous TES games

Sorc- Every mage ever
Nightblade- Nightingale
DK-Ebony Warrior
Templar- Every healer ever

CapnPhoton · January 2016

In WoW it may be a huge new thing, but it has been done before on other MMOs numerous times. Quite a few of them were before it. It was done quite well in all the EQ games. I can remember in EQOA they were a challenge to pick the right path, but if done, they were amazing.

Artjuh90 · January 2016

Never got why people like unarmed that mutch, even in games where it's good like fallout, i will always switch back to normal weapons

TheShadowScout · January 2016

Unarmed has its place in fantasy genres. But... not for proper "normal" combat. Tavern brawls and prison escapes on the other hand...

I'd really love if there was some "non-lethal combat", punches that drain stamina on impact, and at low stamina have a knockout chance depending on health? Meaning high stamina characters might be difficult to get to the knockout point unless they overexert themselves attacking, while high health characters may be less punchy, but instead difficult to knock out no matter how often you get them to that point... (sorry, nothing for mages - brainy nerds should stay out of fisticuffs!

)

And then... subdual weapons for the city guard for when they break up the tavern brawl! Same effect, bonus to stamina damage and knockout chance, billy clubs, saps, quaterstaves. etc. And waking up with a headache in the local jail cell and having to post bail for our characters?

Nestor · January 2016

Artjuh90 wrote: »

Never got why people like unarmed that mutch, even in games where it's good like fallout, i will always switch back to normal weapons

In Morrowind, a Monk could be quite devastating at higher levels. Getting them there was a challenge, but they could hold their own once leveled against any enemies in Morrowind. Although I never tried mine in Bloodmoon (the expansion that was in Solestheim), the enemies up there were a lot tougher.

Volkodav · January 2016

acw37162 wrote: »

I third this if it fits the lore

Why wouldnt it fit lore,as in Morrowind you could play as an unarmed monk.

Gilvoth · January 2016

morrowind Hand to Hand combat

If the punch that reduces a foe's fatigue to 0 is in the back they will be knocked out longer.
Your fists are NOT a normal weapon, and will do full damage to undead and werewolves.
Beast races will use hand-to-hand differently; they use a different stance and scratch with their claws instead of punching (similar to what werewolves do) but they will still damage fatigue.
When in the form of a werewolf from the Bloodmoon expansion, your Hand-to-hand attacks damage your target's health, rather than their fatigue.
When your target is paralyzed, your Hand-to-hand attacks damage your target's health, rather than their fatigue.
Effects such as Absorb Fatigue and Damage Fatigue provide obvious advantages in a Hand-to-hand fight, but so can Burden and Damage Strength. Enemies rendered immobile by Damage Strength will still try in vain to run towards you, resulting in rapid fatigue loss and making them easier to knock out.
When fighting a land-based opponent in the ocean or in a shallow pool of standing water, rendering them unconscious will subsequently cause them to start drowning; as they will be out of breath and will become submersed. Obviously, this will deliver a large degree of added damage allowing you to effectively drown your opponents using hand-to-hand.

direct quote from http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Hand-to-hand

CaptainObvious · January 2016

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Daggerfall:Intrinsic_Classes