Concept: Daggerfall style strength and weaknesses

RAGUNAnoOne

For those who didn't play Daggerfall the character creation in that game let you pick several additional effects for your character such an resistances, strengths, and weaknesses this concept will allow players to select various new options for builds. For each strength you must choose a weakness(s) that are equal to or greater than the strength(s) you choose these will be determined by a point system. Example: Strong against magic 10% (10 points) low tolerance to poison (-3 points) critical weakness to shock (-9points) since the net is -2 you can use this build as long as the total points are less than or equal to 0 you are fine. those that already made there character will get a menu asking if they want to do this now. you can pray at the attribute respec shrine to redo your choices the cost raises with your level. here are some things you can use:

Strengths:
Affinity to magic 3 4 5% max magicka and regeneration (10, 13, 15) (those with magicka racial passives cannot use this)
Hardy same as above for health bonus however it is 4.5, 6, 8 instead
Natural athlete: same as magick one but for stamina (same restriction for stamina based passives)
Strong against: choose 1 element to gain 10% resistance to (3) or choose magic or physical hits (10) (Only one can be chosen)
Lucky: increase critical strike rate by 5% (10)
Morning glory: gain 3% increased stats in the morning (6)
Night owl the same as above but at night (10)
Keen eye: your ranged attacks gain a 2 meter boost (5)
Natural healer: increases healing done by 2% (7)

neutral:(cannot be changed through respec for 2 weeks after taking these unless otherwise noted)
Weapon affinity: gain 5% more experience and effect from one weapon skill line but loose 2% from all others.
craftsman: gain 20% more inspiration from one craft but loose 10% from others.
Chosen focus: select one class skill tree all skills and passives in that skill line gain 20% effectiveness but you cannot use any moves from the other 2 class skill trees and the passives for those are disabled (this one can be changed once every 5 hours)

Weaknesses:
Forbidden weapon type/weapon: prevents you from using one weapon tree or one weapon in a skill tree you can still take and craft them though you just can't equip them (weapon type -14 weapon -2) (Can use multiples 1HS will only ban the shield)
Forbidden armor piece/type: you can guess (-16 full -2 per piece)
Dark/light powered: loose 4% max stamina and magicka and 10% regeneration when not in your chosen light setting (-12 dark -18 light)
Unlucky: reduce critical strike by 5% (-8)
low tolerance to an element: 10% weakness to an element (-3) (cannot select one that your racial passive increases no disease weakness until more of it gets used)
Critical weakness: 25% weakness to one element (-9) (cannot be the same as low tolerance no disease weakness)
Phobia: take 8% more damage from beasts, deadra, or undead. (-12)
Poor healing: reduces healing received and done by 2% (-6)

what do you think deserving of a @Gidorick comment?

Ruben

I don't see myself choosing any of these.

Divinius

While I don't see a system like this working very well in ESO, I do have to admit that I absolutely loved that feature of Daggerfall's custom class creator, and missed having a similar system in the subsequent games.

Tryxus

"Immunity to Paralysis" the must have advantage for any character in Daggerfall

Anyways, I think this system could work for ESO, more specifically for Class Morphs:

- Magicka and Stamina Morphs for each class with matching names
- Each Class Morph comes with its own Advantages
- We get 2 extra ability slots where we can set 2 of those advantages and change them if we need to

The Daggerfall Advantages is a great idea, and I think it could work for ESO too.

tinythinker

Ruben wrote: »

I don't see myself choosing any of these.

The idea isn't necessarily to just use the ones from the older game or even his list, but to have a similar system where advantages are balanced with disadvantage. The details are up for grabs. It could be added to existing skill lines like racial passives or it could be something new, such as Alliance specific. You choose DC and get a list of traits, you chose AD and get a different list of traits.

CaptainObvious

Would consider the advantages versus disadvantages if this game was in alpha/beta. The game's advancement concepts are a myriad of plot holes and spelling errors already. Gain an ability to weapon swap at level 15. Don't gain anything beyond that. Soon you will gain an ability point and skill point for every 10 CP until 160 when vet levels vanish.

You will eventually need 520+ CP enchantments for 520+ CP gear.

In short, they are revamping core systems too much to little effect already. Revamp of the provisioning system gave us exactly what we already had. The ingredients are slightly different. That was months of development effort on a core system that amounted to IMO zero. The original promise of food/drink stacking vanished.

Apart from that, the olde Daggerfall system would be highly exploitable. Just pick up Magicka Absorption and dump SP like it is going out of style. You will simply absorb all of your opponent's blue bar and take no damage. If you don't and you take a hit while SP bar is full, you take damage. That would be slightly OP.

Plus, those variations are supposed to be what the Mundus effects represent in this game.

TX12001rwb17_ESO

That system would be good but Daggerfall's was as Broken as hell, you could literally make a character immune to all offensive magic from the start.

A good way to balance it out would to have it so for every strength you take you take your maximum stats get reduced by 250 for the first one then 500 for the second, then 1000 then 2000 then 4000 and you can keep taking them as long as you have the health for it so someone with say 6 strengths may only have like 5k health and the weakness's would do the exact opposite and instead increase your stats but the weakness would have to be significant and impact your gameplay so people don't exploit it, so if you encounter another player with say 100k health, then a level 10 just entering cyrodiil might beable to take him down as the weakness's would make him physically very weak.

Then you could have neutral abilities that don't effect stats but instead give both a positive and a negative effect...example

Dual Wield Affinity - you deal 10% greater damage with all dual wielding abilities but you deal 5% less damage with all other weapon skills

and so on.

Gidorick

I really like the core concept. I like the idea of this being added to the current system and what repercussions it might have. The idea of negative statistics would go a long way to combating things like power creep but would probably also create a bigger balancing issues for ZOS. That might be a good thing though!

Personally wish this was sort of what the champion system was doing for us. Not just making us stronger but also making us weaker in certain areas. Game mechanics which cause us to balance our characters help make the decisions we make unique. Not to mention how this would be an AWESOME system to add along with jewelry crafting! Add weaknesses that we can combat with charmed jewelry!

How are you thinking these statistics would be included @RAGUNAnoOne ? With Skill points? Attribute Points? Something else?

Refuse2GrowUp

Hate to be the nay sayer, but ZOS has a hard enough time balancing what is already in game. Throw a curve ball at them and things may get really screwy. There are lots of things I would love to see in game, but until they fix the current balance issues and ever expanding list of bugs, it might be best to let them maintain their current focus (which hopefully isn't the Crown Store )

Tonnopesce

Can i turn this thread in the monthly CHANGE THE ARGONIANS PASSIVE?

Lysette

This concept described in the post was used in a way in Fallout New Vegas - you could choose traits at start. Most traits had an advantage and a disadvantage and traits were optional.

So I would be interested in how many of you actually did choose one ore two of these traits in FO:NV?

Edit:

I chose

small frame - more AP, but -2 DR
and one, which provided higher weapon accuracy, but came with lower firing rate

Divinius

CaptainObvious wrote: »

Would consider the advantages versus disadvantages if this game was in alpha/beta. The game's advancement concepts are a myriad of plot holes and spelling errors already. Gain an ability to weapon swap at level 15. Don't gain anything beyond that. Soon you will gain an ability point and skill point for every 10 CP until 160 when vet levels vanish.

You will eventually need 520+ CP enchantments for 520+ CP gear.

In short, they are revamping core systems too much to little effect already. Revamp of the provisioning system gave us exactly what we already had. The ingredients are slightly different. That was months of development effort on a core system that amounted to IMO zero. The original promise of food/drink stacking vanished.

Apart from that, the olde Daggerfall system would be highly exploitable. Just pick up Magicka Absorption and dump SP like it is going out of style. You will simply absorb all of your opponent's blue bar and take no damage. If you don't and you take a hit while SP bar is full, you take damage. That would be slightly OP.

Plus, those variations are supposed to be what the Mundus effects represent in this game.

Best post in thread. Spot on with everything. 100% agree. This is why I said that, as much as I loved it in Daggerfall, it wouldn't work in ESO.

As an aside, the fact that the only useful part of the provisioning revamp was scrapped (food and drink stacking) has also bugged me ever since it happened.

Lysette

Divinius wrote: »

CaptainObvious wrote: »

Would consider the advantages versus disadvantages if this game was in alpha/beta. The game's advancement concepts are a myriad of plot holes and spelling errors already. Gain an ability to weapon swap at level 15. Don't gain anything beyond that. Soon you will gain an ability point and skill point for every 10 CP until 160 when vet levels vanish.

You will eventually need 520+ CP enchantments for 520+ CP gear.

In short, they are revamping core systems too much to little effect already. Revamp of the provisioning system gave us exactly what we already had. The ingredients are slightly different. That was months of development effort on a core system that amounted to IMO zero. The original promise of food/drink stacking vanished.

Apart from that, the olde Daggerfall system would be highly exploitable. Just pick up Magicka Absorption and dump SP like it is going out of style. You will simply absorb all of your opponent's blue bar and take no damage. If you don't and you take a hit while SP bar is full, you take damage. That would be slightly OP.

Plus, those variations are supposed to be what the Mundus effects represent in this game.

Best post in thread. Spot on with everything. 100% agree. This is why I said that, as much as I loved it in Daggerfall, it wouldn't work in ESO.

As an aside, the fact that the only useful part of the provisioning revamp was scrapped (food and drink stacking) has also bugged me ever since it happened.

It does not make me wonder, that food/drink stacking was removed, you can have something like that in a single player game, because there it does not matter when it makes you OP - you are the only hero. In a multi-hero game this is a bad idea to make that stack, because it leads to all kind of OP situations with 1-shot capabilities - which are undesirable in an MMO - or insanely high max/regen values.

I just remember this food/drink stacking in Fallout New Vegas for example - playing hardcore mode was actually easy mode, because due to the fact that all stacked and the effects came with a delay over time, you could just stack several food items and had a huge consistent regeneration which made you hopelessly OP - you could go and punch a group of deathclaws in the face bare-handedly and survive it. And so it would be as well if food/drink would stack in ESO and people with high provisioning would use it to acquire OP capabilities with extreme max boosts and even more extreme regeneration.

CaptainObvious

The initial reason for the provisioning revamp was so that foods would be weakened and as a side effect, players could have 1 food and 1 drink running at the same time. We got A but did not get B.

So they would have avoided multi-stacking.

Gidorick

CaptainObvious wrote: »

The initial reason for the provisioning revamp was so that foods would be weakened and as a side effect, players could have 1 food and 1 drink running at the same time. We got A but did not get B.

So they would have avoided multi-stacking.

I was pretty disappointed when part B didn't happen. I like the idea of sitting down to a meal before an adventure. Now I just have to settle for a mouthful of pie.

Alucardo

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Can i turn this thread in the monthly CHANGE THE ARGONIANS PASSIVE?

No. Go back to your swamp you abomination.

RAGUNAnoOne

@Gidorick Hmm using points to have access... the original plan was to have it have it's own independent system but you are correct something should be tied to it. if we go that way what about achievement points, requiring a certain amount of them to access certain positives but still requiring the negatives to be taken?

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Can i turn this thread in the monthly CHANGE THE ARGONIANS PASSIVE?

why not we need a big thread as I see 3 popping up weekly

.

Alucardo wrote: »

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

Can i turn this thread in the monthly CHANGE THE ARGONIANS PASSIVE?

No. Go back to your swamp you abomination.

Hist spit on you!

RAGUNAnoOne

Gidorick wrote: »

CaptainObvious wrote: »

The initial reason for the provisioning revamp was so that foods would be weakened and as a side effect, players could have 1 food and 1 drink running at the same time. We got A but did not get B.

So they would have avoided multi-stacking.

I was pretty disappointed when part B didn't happen. I like the idea of sitting down to a meal before an adventure. Now I just have to settle for a mouthful of pie.

What kind of pie? I heard a Nord in solsthiem makes the best strawberry pies in tamriel how does she get the strawberries anyway