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Sypher vs. Crown & Parody: Results of the bet!

Crown
Crown
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Crown and @Sypher made a bet as to who would make more AP in the first 10 hours of the Azura's Star campaign reset: Crown's wife on her nightblade (Parody), or Sypher on his sorcerer. If Sypher had won, Crown would have come into Sypher's stream to sing one of his scroll running songs (each scroll has a different song that Crown sings in TS while running it - as most of his guild mates can attest). In this case, Parody made more AP, and here is Sypher honouring the terms of the bet:

https://www.youtube.com/1BmxUFVL0_8

If the embed option didn't work, here's the link to the Youtube page directly: https://youtu.be/1BmxUFVL0_8
Edited by Crown on December 30, 2015 5:39AM
Crown | AD NB | First AD/NA Grand Overlord (2015/12/26)
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  • Joy_Division
    Joy_Division
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    Gratz Parody!

    Wish we had more of these types of good-natured threads.
  • Sypher
    Sypher
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    Well played. Glad I quit early on.

    Currently parody has 667k+ AP nearly double than anyone on any alliance. No chance.

    She explained how she farmed up so much AP solo, and although it's not my style of play it is very rewarding as far as AP is concerned.

    Edit (made a short video regarding the topic of solo AP farming):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uPYozSwJIE
    Edited by Sypher on December 31, 2015 5:41AM
    DC Dragonknight 'Sypher - AD Nightblade Sypher Ali - AD Sorcerer Sypher Sensei - EP Sorcerer Sypharian - DC Templar Ali Sypher

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  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Tag all of the things.
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  • Derra
    Derra
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    Only as a nightblade ;). I´ll link this topic in the best solo pvp class discussion.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

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    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • riverdragon72
    riverdragon72
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    You can't make AP hugging trees!
    Meh...**** it..
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    I guess AP buff plus healing is OP for AP farming.
    Because I can!
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Errr, what happened to solo players needing significant AP buffs to be able to keep up with the zergling AP farmers? Is that not true and it mostly comes down to play time? Color me surprised.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    Try to keep up with a gank NB (stam or mag) with other any magica specced class.

    Also nobody said solo players need buffs. It was just stated that awarding more ap per kill just for being in a bigger grp does not make sense @zheg - you´re lacking reading comprehension or misinterpret things intentionally.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Derra wrote: »
    Try to keep up with a gank NB (stam or mag) with other any magica specced class.

    Also nobody said solo players need buffs. It was just stated that awarding more ap per kill just for being in a bigger grp does not make sense @zheg - you´re lacking reading comprehension or misinterpret things intentionally.

    Much of the feedback was that solo players make less AP than groups, even though there was a follow up thread by Crown showing the rates were pretty close using anecdotal evidence. The thread was never phrased as "there's an artificial mechanism that boosts group AP gains, this should be removed because it's weird, but the AP gains after its removal should still maintain current AP gain rates for both solo players and group players". To be fair, Sypher never explicitly said buff solo AP and nerf group AP, but with a thread title of "Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?", I should think people can read between the lines. Obviously if the AP rate gains between solo and group players were close to being the same, and you take out something that is contributing to the AP totals that make up those group AP numbers, it's going to swing the pendulum.

    Brian took that feedback and ran with it and the upcoming changes will penalize anyone running more than 12 (I think that was the mark? it was just from ESO Live and there hasn't been an official post yet from what I can gather) and double the base AP - which would very much buff solo player AP gains. So, just pointing out the irony that the AP complain thread that Sypher started largely snowballed into a false narrative about the true AP gains solo players vs groups can make, used an artificial addition to group AP as a scapegoat, and here we are with him in a competition for top AP gains with another solo player and guess what, the winner far surpassed the group players. True, the artificial addition for group AP is a weird ZOS thing, but even with it in place group players would still make comparable AP to what solo players could make (as per Crown's follow up thread).

    As myself and others pointed out in sypher's thread, something that was of minimal importance, and really not a very big problem at all given that solo vs group AP rates currently are largely equivalent, was given development attention and priority over everything else that could have been worked on because one of the big names made a stink about it (issues that could have been prioritized over that: gap closer spam, fall damage BS, unbreakable CC, CC break not giving CC immunity, persistence of buff servers, end of campaign rewards, stuck in combat bug, additional map objectives, arenas, etc. etc.). Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to a legitimate issue - gap closer spam. Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to an issue that really wasn't an issue but would benefit him - complaining about how 'zergs' get more AP than him.

    There's just never any accountability for the false information that those threads (sypher's original AP one) generate, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes knowing that thread was a driving force for the upcoming AP changes to a problem that this thread clearly demonstrates is not as big as what the sypher thread tried to sell.
    Edited by Zheg on December 30, 2015 1:10PM
  • Morozov
    Morozov
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    I agree @Zheg ...but maaaan am I gonnnna get suuuuu much AP playing solo I can already count how many monster helms Im gonna git :dizzy:



    /sarcasm
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  • Alomar
    Alomar
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    Well god damn I agree with a Zhegg for once. Great way to spend development time when your game has been plagued with issues since launch and received no new pvp content since then either (imperial city & new siege don't count). Yet, internet fandom is more important so yeah great job game of the year!

    PS: Thanks for yet another batch of *** end of campaign rewards.
    Edited by Alomar on December 30, 2015 3:10PM
    Haxus Council Member
    Former Havoc Commander
    Former DiE officer
    Alomar: 5 Stars - Beast: 3 stars - Kurudin: 5th NA emperor
    Awaiting New World, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall
  • Ishammael
    Ishammael
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    Um.... yeah. I actually agree with Zheg here:
    Zheg wrote: »
    As myself and others pointed out in sypher's thread, something that was of minimal importance, and really not a very big problem at all given that solo vs group AP rates currently are largely equivalent, was given development attention and priority over everything else that could have been worked on because one of the big names made a stink about it (issues that could have been prioritized over that: gap closer spam, fall damage BS, unbreakable CC, CC break not giving CC immunity, persistence of buff servers, end of campaign rewards, stuck in combat bug, additional map objectives, arenas, etc. etc.). Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to a legitimate issue - gap closer spam. Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to an issue that really wasn't an issue but would benefit him - complaining about how 'zergs' get more AP than him.

  • eliisra
    eliisra
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    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.
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    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring resurrection sickness
    • Fix character desync
    • Fix cc breaking bug
    • Fix gap closer bug
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    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix streak bug
    • Fix server lag
  • FENGRUSH
    FENGRUSH
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    Zheg wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Try to keep up with a gank NB (stam or mag) with other any magica specced class.

    Also nobody said solo players need buffs. It was just stated that awarding more ap per kill just for being in a bigger grp does not make sense @zheg - you´re lacking reading comprehension or misinterpret things intentionally.

    Much of the feedback was that solo players make less AP than groups, even though there was a follow up thread by Crown showing the rates were pretty close using anecdotal evidence. The thread was never phrased as "there's an artificial mechanism that boosts group AP gains, this should be removed because it's weird, but the AP gains after its removal should still maintain current AP gain rates for both solo players and group players". To be fair, Sypher never explicitly said buff solo AP and nerf group AP, but with a thread title of "Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?", I should think people can read between the lines. Obviously if the AP rate gains between solo and group players were close to being the same, and you take out something that is contributing to the AP totals that make up those group AP numbers, it's going to swing the pendulum.

    Brian took that feedback and ran with it and the upcoming changes will penalize anyone running more than 12 (I think that was the mark? it was just from ESO Live and there hasn't been an official post yet from what I can gather) and double the base AP - which would very much buff solo player AP gains. So, just pointing out the irony that the AP complain thread that Sypher started largely snowballed into a false narrative about the true AP gains solo players vs groups can make, used an artificial addition to group AP as a scapegoat, and here we are with him in a competition for top AP gains with another solo player and guess what, the winner far surpassed the group players. True, the artificial addition for group AP is a weird ZOS thing, but even with it in place group players would still make comparable AP to what solo players could make (as per Crown's follow up thread).

    As myself and others pointed out in sypher's thread, something that was of minimal importance, and really not a very big problem at all given that solo vs group AP rates currently are largely equivalent, was given development attention and priority over everything else that could have been worked on because one of the big names made a stink about it (issues that could have been prioritized over that: gap closer spam, fall damage BS, unbreakable CC, CC break not giving CC immunity, persistence of buff servers, end of campaign rewards, stuck in combat bug, additional map objectives, arenas, etc. etc.). Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to a legitimate issue - gap closer spam. Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to an issue that really wasn't an issue but would benefit him - complaining about how 'zergs' get more AP than him.

    There's just never any accountability for the false information that those threads (sypher's original AP one) generate, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes knowing that thread was a driving force for the upcoming AP changes to a problem that this thread clearly demonstrates is not as big as what the sypher thread tried to sell.

    I wouldnt say he 'used his big name' to get one change done over another. This is something wheeler commented on - thats not reallt he same role and almost everything else you named which is a HUGE issue in combat/mechanics team. That is Wrobel, and we all want Wrobel to start chipping away at the huge issues that plague combat from small/large scale to pretty much the gameplay as a whole.

    Frankly nothing got changed, people just said it was a good idea - they made an AOE cap thread too like that was a good idea.. at the end nobody knows whats going on on their end.
  • Pchela
    Pchela
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    Tags OP.
  • Takllin
    Takllin
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    Technically the AP changes are a nerf to this kind of playstyle, no?

    Her and Crown are together, and lets say there is a 22 man group that killed the player A. So 22 people total killed that player. So after the update, she should get less AP, right? Brians example was 24 people get 103 AP now, 93 AP after the update.

    Or is the AP divided take faction into account, so her and Crown would get a larger portion of the AP?

    The AP argument had two sides to it. There were people who wanted less AP for larger groups, and others who wanted more AP per kill.
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  • Manoekin
    Manoekin
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    ✭✭
    frozywozy wrote: »
    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.

    Wasn't even that. Can confirm there was nothing on AD side to even rapid regen when she made her AP.
  • Psilent
    Psilent
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    frozywozy wrote: »
    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.

    It is not rapid regen ticks Frozn.
  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    ✭✭
    Manoekin wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.

    Wasn't even that. Can confirm there was nothing on AD side to even rapid regen when she made her AP.

    Still a problem. Just look at the first 15days of the last Azura Star Cycle on EP leaderboard. There was that random guy that no one ever heard of. A solo player who kept following Haxus around spamming rapid regen the whole time. It's the only thing he did, yet he managed to get third for 15days straight. If that's not broken, tell me what it is.
    Edited by frozywozy on December 30, 2015 4:08PM
    Frozn - Stamdk - AR50
    Frosted - Magplar - AR50
    Frodn - Magden - AR50
    Warmed - Magblade - AR50
    Mmfrozy - Magsorc - AR44
    Necrozn - Magcro - AR32
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    PvP Group Builds

    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and great minds discuss ideas.” -Eleanor Roosevelt
    • Fix Volendrung (spawn location - weapon white on the map causing the wielder to keep it forever - usable with emperorship)
    • Remove / Change CPs System, remove current CP/noCP campaigns and introduce one 30days with lock, one with no locks
    • Fix crashes when approaching a keep under attack because of bad / wrong rendering prioritization system
    • Change emperorship to value faction score points and not alliance points - see this and this
    • Fix long loading screens (mostly caused by players joining group out of rendering range)
    • Add 2 more quickslots to the wheel or add a different wheel for sieges weaponry only
    • Fix Balista Bolts not dealing damage on walls or doors if deployed at a certain place
    • Release bigger battlegrounds with 8 to 16 players per team and only two teams
    • Fix the permanent block animation - see examples : link1 link2 link3 link4 link5
    • Gives players 10 minutes to get back into Cyrodiil after relogging / crashing
    • Add a function to ignore the Claiming system of useless rewards
    • Improve the Mailing System / Rewards of the Worthy stacking
    • Assign specific group sizes to specific campaigns (24-16-8)
    • Make forward camps impossible to place near objectives
    • Make snares only available from ground effects abilities
    • Change emperorship to last minimum 24hours
    • Fix body sliding after cc breaking too quickly
    • Remove Block Casting through Battle Spirit
    • Fix the speed drop while jumping - see video
    • Fix loading screens when keeps upgrade
    • Fix Rams going crazy (spinning around)
    • Bring back dynamic ulti regeneration
    • Fix speed bug (abilities locked)
    • Introduce dynamic population
    • Lower population cap by 20%
    • Add Snare Immunity potions
    • Bring resurrection sickness
    • Fix character desync
    • Fix cc breaking bug
    • Fix gap closer bug
    • Fix health desync
    • Fix combat bug
    • Fix streak bug
    • Fix server lag
  • Alomar
    Alomar
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    frozywozy wrote: »
    Manoekin wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.

    Wasn't even that. Can confirm there was nothing on AD side to even rapid regen when she made her AP.

    Still a problem. Just look at the first 15days of the last Azura Star Cycle on EP leaderboard. There was that random guy that no one ever heard of. A solo player who kept following Haxus around spamming rapid regen the whole time. It's the only thing he did, yet he managed to get third for 15days straight. If that's not broken, tell me what it is.

    He did not earn that ap from following us around using mutagen. He was a trial because multiple people vouched for him and we allowed him in 4-5 groups. It was in those groups he accumulated the majority of that AP. Don't worry he was promptly removed.
    Haxus Council Member
    Former Havoc Commander
    Former DiE officer
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    Awaiting New World, Camelot Unchained, and Crowfall
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Zheg wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Try to keep up with a gank NB (stam or mag) with other any magica specced class.

    Also nobody said solo players need buffs. It was just stated that awarding more ap per kill just for being in a bigger grp does not make sense @zheg - you´re lacking reading comprehension or misinterpret things intentionally.

    Much of the feedback was that solo players make less AP than groups, even though there was a follow up thread by Crown showing the rates were pretty close using anecdotal evidence. The thread was never phrased as "there's an artificial mechanism that boosts group AP gains, this should be removed because it's weird, but the AP gains after its removal should still maintain current AP gain rates for both solo players and group players". To be fair, Sypher never explicitly said buff solo AP and nerf group AP, but with a thread title of "Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?", I should think people can read between the lines. Obviously if the AP rate gains between solo and group players were close to being the same, and you take out something that is contributing to the AP totals that make up those group AP numbers, it's going to swing the pendulum.

    Brian took that feedback and ran with it and the upcoming changes will penalize anyone running more than 12 (I think that was the mark? it was just from ESO Live and there hasn't been an official post yet from what I can gather) and double the base AP - which would very much buff solo player AP gains. So, just pointing out the irony that the AP complain thread that Sypher started largely snowballed into a false narrative about the true AP gains solo players vs groups can make, used an artificial addition to group AP as a scapegoat, and here we are with him in a competition for top AP gains with another solo player and guess what, the winner far surpassed the group players. True, the artificial addition for group AP is a weird ZOS thing, but even with it in place group players would still make comparable AP to what solo players could make (as per Crown's follow up thread).

    As myself and others pointed out in sypher's thread, something that was of minimal importance, and really not a very big problem at all given that solo vs group AP rates currently are largely equivalent, was given development attention and priority over everything else that could have been worked on because one of the big names made a stink about it (issues that could have been prioritized over that: gap closer spam, fall damage BS, unbreakable CC, CC break not giving CC immunity, persistence of buff servers, end of campaign rewards, stuck in combat bug, additional map objectives, arenas, etc. etc.). Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to a legitimate issue - gap closer spam. Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to an issue that really wasn't an issue but would benefit him - complaining about how 'zergs' get more AP than him.

    There's just never any accountability for the false information that those threads (sypher's original AP one) generate, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes knowing that thread was a driving force for the upcoming AP changes to a problem that this thread clearly demonstrates is not as big as what the sypher thread tried to sell.

    I wouldnt say he 'used his big name' to get one change done over another. This is something wheeler commented on - thats not reallt he same role and almost everything else you named which is a HUGE issue in combat/mechanics team. That is Wrobel, and we all want Wrobel to start chipping away at the huge issues that plague combat from small/large scale to pretty much the gameplay as a whole.

    Frankly nothing got changed, people just said it was a good idea - they made an AOE cap thread too like that was a good idea.. at the end nobody knows whats going on on their end.

    To be fair, it's easy for me to harp on everything the streamer crowd says. They hold enormous sway among the playerbase, and among ZOS - and while I don't think that makes sense, it doesn't make it less true. Because of that sway though, threads and comments are held to a much higher scrutiny than they would be if they came from me. It's totally not fair, it really isnt, but that's the drawback of celebrity. You guys put yourselves on the pedestal and asked for the attention, the drawback is when you weild that attention to insignificant (or just flat out misrepresented) issues, not everyone is going to be happy.

    I haven't had time to go watch it, but didn't somebody post a thread on the last ESO live summarizing what brian's changes were? It's not just a response from him anymore, Brian flat out said he was going to make solo AP gains better in another thread, and it sounded like he spelled those changes out on the last ESO live.

    So, if that's true, then yes, the consequence of syphers thread was that it was acted upon and development resources were devoted to it. While most of the issues that need fixing are all wrobel, there are still plenty of other things we could have Brian be working on instead of a misrepresented 'problem'. Examples: ic fixes and incentives, nightcap disincentives, added objectives to towns, arenas, keep defense and offense changes, pvp events, tournaments, a 'rebel' alliance or something where you can fight everyone not in your group, etc. Any of these would be fun and help inject some life into pvp without needing to wait on wrobel. Even if none of those tickle your fancy, every second Brian spends on silly AP formulas is a second he's not spending improving communication on forums, and is a second he isn't spending hounding wrobel to finally get results out.

    /soapbox
  • Zheg
    Zheg
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    Alomar wrote: »
    Well god damn I agree with a Zhegg.
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  • BigTone
    BigTone
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    Sypher wrote: »
    Well played. Glad I quit early on.

    Currently parody has 667k+ AP nearly double than anyone on any alliance. No chance.

    She explained how she farmed up so much AP solo, and although it's not my style of play it is very rewarding as far as AP is concerned.

    Share
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  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    Zheg wrote: »
    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    Zheg wrote: »
    Derra wrote: »
    Try to keep up with a gank NB (stam or mag) with other any magica specced class.

    Also nobody said solo players need buffs. It was just stated that awarding more ap per kill just for being in a bigger grp does not make sense @zheg - you´re lacking reading comprehension or misinterpret things intentionally.

    Much of the feedback was that solo players make less AP than groups, even though there was a follow up thread by Crown showing the rates were pretty close using anecdotal evidence. The thread was never phrased as "there's an artificial mechanism that boosts group AP gains, this should be removed because it's weird, but the AP gains after its removal should still maintain current AP gain rates for both solo players and group players". To be fair, Sypher never explicitly said buff solo AP and nerf group AP, but with a thread title of "Why are Zergs rewarded more AP?", I should think people can read between the lines. Obviously if the AP rate gains between solo and group players were close to being the same, and you take out something that is contributing to the AP totals that make up those group AP numbers, it's going to swing the pendulum.

    Brian took that feedback and ran with it and the upcoming changes will penalize anyone running more than 12 (I think that was the mark? it was just from ESO Live and there hasn't been an official post yet from what I can gather) and double the base AP - which would very much buff solo player AP gains. So, just pointing out the irony that the AP complain thread that Sypher started largely snowballed into a false narrative about the true AP gains solo players vs groups can make, used an artificial addition to group AP as a scapegoat, and here we are with him in a competition for top AP gains with another solo player and guess what, the winner far surpassed the group players. True, the artificial addition for group AP is a weird ZOS thing, but even with it in place group players would still make comparable AP to what solo players could make (as per Crown's follow up thread).

    As myself and others pointed out in sypher's thread, something that was of minimal importance, and really not a very big problem at all given that solo vs group AP rates currently are largely equivalent, was given development attention and priority over everything else that could have been worked on because one of the big names made a stink about it (issues that could have been prioritized over that: gap closer spam, fall damage BS, unbreakable CC, CC break not giving CC immunity, persistence of buff servers, end of campaign rewards, stuck in combat bug, additional map objectives, arenas, etc. etc.). Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to a legitimate issue - gap closer spam. Example of a sypher thread using the big name to bring attention to an issue that really wasn't an issue but would benefit him - complaining about how 'zergs' get more AP than him.

    There's just never any accountability for the false information that those threads (sypher's original AP one) generate, and I couldn't help but roll my eyes knowing that thread was a driving force for the upcoming AP changes to a problem that this thread clearly demonstrates is not as big as what the sypher thread tried to sell.

    I wouldnt say he 'used his big name' to get one change done over another. This is something wheeler commented on - thats not reallt he same role and almost everything else you named which is a HUGE issue in combat/mechanics team. That is Wrobel, and we all want Wrobel to start chipping away at the huge issues that plague combat from small/large scale to pretty much the gameplay as a whole.

    Frankly nothing got changed, people just said it was a good idea - they made an AOE cap thread too like that was a good idea.. at the end nobody knows whats going on on their end.

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  • Takllin
    Takllin
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    BigTone wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Well played. Glad I quit early on.

    Currently parody has 667k+ AP nearly double than anyone on any alliance. No chance.

    She explained how she farmed up so much AP solo, and although it's not my style of play it is very rewarding as far as AP is concerned.

    Share

    Run into the opposing two factions fighting, prox det + sap/impulse/aoe to tag them, and cloak away while they die.
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  • Crown
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    A few clarifications from our side:

    It's pretty obvious that groups are CAPABLE of making more AP than solo/small group IN LAG / high latency conditions. With the exception of some very specific play styles, when latency hits 400ms and/or frames drop below 10, MOST solo players have zero (maybe not zero, but very very low) chance to make any plays.

    I believe that the current AP reward for killing players is CLOSE for solo vs group for most play styles.

    I hope that the result of this exercise have shown that solo AP farming is a VERY DIFFERENT play style from solo or 1vX. Solo AP farming is VERY boring, and Parody only continued on to prove the point and win the bet (and because I ordered us pizza).

    The pizza was VERY good. It had a medium whole wheat crust, with extra tomato sauce, pepperoni, mushrooms, green peppers, sun dried tomatoes, onions, bacon, Italian sausage, hot banana peppers, garlic butter brushed on the crust, and extra mozzarella cheese.

    Anyone who likes anything else on their pizza better than the above is wrong.

    I believe that if the lag issues were to be resolved and AoE caps removed, then the likelihood that small groups and solo players will make the similar AP as groups is very high. We can't know this until it's tested in real play conditions, but as the formally acknowledged Grand God of AP ***, my opinion on this matter should hold some weight ;-)

    I believe that one of the driving forces for the upcoming AP changes is to incentivize players to run smaller groups in order to decrease the hit on the server(s) from larger groups. I believe that the decision had NOTHING to do with balancing AP gains, and everything to do with trying to alleviate latency challenges when large groups come together.

    In order to realistically incentivize small group play, their damage has to be sufficient to take out a large group (if they play well enough) so hopefully we will see some good changes on that front.

    From @Sypher's perspective, as a solo player, he makes less AP once the lag hits. At the start of the campaign for the first 2-3 hours, the top spots were neck and neck. It is perfectly reasonable that from his perspective increasing AP gains for solo and small group play would make sense. I don't fault him for that, he is a niche player (meaning he has a specific style and rarely deviates from that style), and probably one of the best solo players out there. If the upcoming changes to AP are made as we understand them, then I have no doubt that unless someone explicitly uses Parody's play style to farm AP, very few people will be able to beat @Sypher on the leader board.
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  • Crown
    Crown
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    Zheg wrote: »
    I haven't had time to go watch it, but didn't somebody post a thread on the last ESO live summarizing what brian's changes were?

    @Zheg Here: forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/237193/regarding-brian-wheelers-statements-on-changes-to-ap-in-the-next-patch

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  • frozywozy
    frozywozy
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    Alomar wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    Manoekin wrote: »
    frozywozy wrote: »
    eliisra wrote: »
    I'm sure Parody is a cool lady and a good player, but not really a surprise that a gankblade makes way more AP than a magicka sorc solo.

    This competition feels like a 1960s paralympic sporting event, where you allow Muhammad Ali to join and fight dudes in wheelchairs. Sorc's cant use stealth to get clean and instant solo kills, than bugger of. Kinda curious why Sypher took the bet in the first place as sorc, when destined to lose. Male ego? Likes to sing? Who knows.

    Ganking and normal solo'ing+small scale are oceans apart when it comes to AP/hour. Only way you're making AP comparable to ganking as a magicka build, is by joining large groups.

    Problem is not gankblade, it's rapid regen ap ticks.

    Wasn't even that. Can confirm there was nothing on AD side to even rapid regen when she made her AP.

    Still a problem. Just look at the first 15days of the last Azura Star Cycle on EP leaderboard. There was that random guy that no one ever heard of. A solo player who kept following Haxus around spamming rapid regen the whole time. It's the only thing he did, yet he managed to get third for 15days straight. If that's not broken, tell me what it is.

    He did not earn that ap from following us around using mutagen. He was a trial because multiple people vouched for him and we allowed him in 4-5 groups. It was in those groups he accumulated the majority of that AP. Don't worry he was promptly removed.

    KK I heard Dig calling him out in chat saying "leeeeeech" so I figured he was just a solo player.
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  • asneakybanana
    asneakybanana
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    Takllin wrote: »
    BigTone wrote: »
    Sypher wrote: »
    Well played. Glad I quit early on.

    Currently parody has 667k+ AP nearly double than anyone on any alliance. No chance.

    She explained how she farmed up so much AP solo, and although it's not my style of play it is very rewarding as far as AP is concerned.

    Share

    Run into the opposing two factions fighting, prox det + sap/impulse/aoe to tag them, and cloak away while they die.

    Or just die and let wait for the zerg to hit them b4 you rez. This has been the tactic since pretty much launch if you want to be a solo emp although it has largely died down due to not being able to get enough damage/tags in since you die so quick or the zerg steam rolls so quick.
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