I'll have to upload a newer stage 5 I'll do it in a bit, not sure if I should cut the deaths from it or not if it helps people on what to expect.Awesome post! I'm going to try the veteran arena with my templar when I finished my endgear. I've tried normal arena and had no issues, I reached stage 5 but had to quit. I use almost same skills. Good read!
I've compared every set up there is, lich doesn't work for templar and you gain arch mage 2pc spell damage and molag Kena spell damage which comes out to be the strongest things to run.My setup seems stronger on stats with Lich, but as we've said before, is very hard to come by. Awesome guide though
I've compared every set up there is, lich doesn't work for templar and you gain arch mage 2pc spell damage and molag Kena spell damage which comes out to be the strongest things to run.
On one of my images I didn't included buffed stats but I'll fix that up.
@Sharmony Sustain comes from Arch Mage 3pc (2pc is spell damage 3pc is regen), you lose that with Lich which probably isn't the best choice believe me I've tried a lot of set ups with low regen and it's just really hard, I also keep potions up all the time.
Yet I am running tri stat glyphs on my Lich atm, and when I change those over I will be quite a bit higher than you on magicka (41-42k?) I believe, enough to counter the 200 odd spell damage behind I am, not the mention the sustain.
Sitting on 39971 Magicka with Tri Stat and and 250 sd behind... should be closer than you think I believe, considering I can't see where your sustain comes from?Guessing because you run harness?
I included a screenshot of my champion points, sorry i forgot to put them inShader_Shibes wrote: »How many cp's into, umm i forget which one, blessed or quick recovery?
Thanks.
@Flynnn Dual Swords directly impact your spell damage as well as tooltip damage, the last passive twin blade and blunt is what is giving the high numbers you need to use that passive to make Dual Swords work. Take a look at the images they explain the list of damage I'll post here the amount of spell damage you get from eachI'm just mind boggled at how you can get 40+k magicka and 3200ish spell dmg with a rehab that's that high. I just built my first v16 build and I'm hoping to be around 30k magicka with 2100 spell dmg and 1300 regen. I just don't get how you guys get these crazy numbers. I'm running 5 Ken 3 magnus 3 willpower. Destruction staff and resto. All magicka glyphs and increase magical harm in jewels. I thought about dual swords but I was reading the passives and it says it gives increased dmg, not spell dmg so I read that only my swords and there abilities with have more damage but this should effect my overall spell dmg.
@Sharmony Sustain comes from Arch Mage 3pc (2pc is spell damage 3pc is regen), you lose that with Lich which probably isn't the best choice believe me I've tried a lot of set ups with low regen and it's just really hard, I also keep potions up all the time.
I would get rid of the lich 2pc and only use the 1pc if you were going to use it but I think it defeats the purpose it is almost the same as my Torug's set up I had awhile ago but didn't include it. Lich 2pc does not proc from any Templar abilities. Replace the 2pc with 1pc Molag Kena.
In theory you're pretty much trading Regen for Max Health and a little bit less spell damage, max magicka also isn't the way to go anymore, spell damage gives us more.
Edit: sorry forgot torugs pact swords and bonus, also check the ability metric, it explains which is stronger btw if you didn't know
My set up
Your ideal set up
Lich with Molag Kena
I included a screenshot of my champion points, sorry i forgot to put them in
@Sharmony Oh Lich, lol yeah I've seen that set up it's essentially Seducer which would be this until you swap to your staff
Think you've made a serious error. Lich is a 5 piece set. It is not Nereinth as I think you believe it to be? I don't mean to question your integrity but this is straight up wrong manI am in fact trading 200 spell damage for 0 magicka issues due to the Lich 5 piece proc and the way (thanks to clever builds that I have been developing) to run two 5 piece sets at the same time as it were. As for spell damage and magicka, I know and agree, but still 2k more magicka is roughly equivollent to your spell damage gain I believe, most skill metrics work out at around 1 spell damage to 10 magicka.
Can't link Lich right now as I am on my phone but I guarantee it's a set you havn't considered due to it's rarity, as for nereinth, I know about the lack of procs - and it sucks
Edit: When I get home I will post my full buffed stats upon changing gear so you can see for yourself how potent the setup is.
@Sharmony Oh Lich, lol yeah I've seen that set up it's essentially Seducer which would be this until you swap to your staff
It's still weaker in my opinion, well it shows it is, and it requires you to use a lich staff which removes the Maelstrom staff, so really I don't understand that set up, i really don't like the idea of people using lich set in there. I can write you up a character sheet of Lich I don't need your buffed stats, it's honestly just seducer until you swap bars, but you don't need that amount of regen it's really over kill for what VMA is
That is assuming you'll be wearing julianos with it.
Where are you gaining 2k magicka from?
Spell Power Cure will hit harder because of how it is pretty strong actually, but the issue is the health while running it you'll be at ~16,800 unless you put points into health in your attributes in that case the builds will be identical but then you lose time based on the up time of your Spell Power Cure. And again, 4pc Seducer is overkill, you may as well do 3pc Seducer with 1 Kena
I owe you an apology, basically the loss in spell damage despite the magicka gain is still too great. We calculated your spell damage buffed is around 3583 from the spreadsheet, a loss of 322 on my build compared to yours despite a gain of 2064 magicka. In fact I was so completely wrong as looking at jabs and doing a quick test it seems it has one of the worst magicka to damage correlations when compared to sd. However, my friend is hitting still a lot harder than you in Spell Power Cure, this would be better than your Julianos for sure (particularly on trash, less so on bosses due to increased execute time and therefore possibly less up time on spell power cure unless using radiant glory). He doesn't' even use Kena etc and is running 4 seducer and has no magicka issues.
My advice to you is to stop stacking regen, you don't need it it's way too overkill. It looks fancy but there is no point to it really
Another thing I have to mention if you don't have at least 7/7 Divines in Spell Power Cure you're losing too much Crit Chance you'd otherwise get from Julianos and it lowers the overall strength of it by a lot. Your best bet would be to go with the set us I posted because just because a set up is stronger doesn't mean it's as well balanced. Believe me I've tested almost everything
As for the divines, yes, I definitely agree for templar, but if you study some of the other classes magicka : spell damage : actual damage ratio's for individual skills; the line becomes far closer for the crit (divines) being the better, also dependent on content and circumstance too.
One of my biggest frustrations is that I believe none of us theorycrafter's have covered is the idea of 'scale' in PvE builds, and what type of enemy(ies) we are hitting. Often it's a simple, oh these few armor sets are good instead of, in single target solo this is definitively the best setup, whereas in trials 12man AoE, this is the best setup. Hopefully we'll work on that in the future. Maybe the work me and a friend are doing plotting all the linear regressions for skills will help with this (the idea being you give us your stats and on a target with a flat armor and spell res (which we will be working out pens for in the future) we can predict how much you would hit, and then using a perfect rotation simulation see which setup would pull ahead).
Bastion makes your harness stronger which is your only shield and a source of magicka recovery, so yeah I think it's very importantryanborror wrote: »@Nifty2g do you really feel you get more out of bastion than quick recovery?
Could you expand on this section a bit more? As far as I'm aware most people try fitting
Ability = a*Magicka + b*Spell Damage + c
They do a linear regression to find a, b and c. From @Zlater's data, for most skills the ratio b/a is around 10.5. I personally use
Ability = a'*(Magicka+10.5*Spell Damage)
as it gets close enough to the ability tooltip and makes subsequent calculations easier. I, specifically checked Puncturing Sweep and @Zlater puts a = 0.0146 and b = 0.155 for Puncturing Sweep.
Could I ask how you plan to simulate rotations? At the moment, I'm simply timing a specific rotation and then calculating the average damage for the ability. An example of which I did for @Nifty2g is shown below (right hand side of the spreadsheet)
I'm encountering problems getting really good accuracy on the tooltip values unfortunately which is why I leave the option to specify the actual tooltip value. I'm thinking of maybe creating a few set timings for skills, weaves and bar swaps to automate the search for the optimum rotation. Of course, puncturing sweep will have to be a special case, as all other channelled spells.
If you have the time, I wouldn't mind listening to the concept of 'scale'. All I can glean from it is that perhaps in solo situations your optimisation function will include more regeneration that in a trial situation.