pvp players changing characters for ganking

DaveMoeDee

pelennor_fields wrote: »

There are two solutions as I see it... The hard way and the easy way...

1. (the hard way) - Force everyone into one faction. Give an option at the login upon the update and all characters will be locked into the chosen alliance.

2. (the easy way) - Make a friendly fire toggle in the style of GTA Online. Some of us are already backstabbing each other - give us all the option to kill each other. Then when you see player "flappysack" who plays on another alliance hanging around your crew while you are taking a keep - kill him... Or not. The choice would be yours. The programming changes would be minimal and the results would be real. Perhaps the only difference being that a kill within the alliance would not force travel to a owned keep or wayshrine. You could revive on the spot if you wanted. Sure some people could troll.. But at least they can't stealth gank you and they are already trolling us and we can't do anything about it. At least with a friendly fire toggle we could kill them.

Or thinking on the fly here, how about a "traitor" option that allows friendly fire only against people with toons on multiple factions. You could work with them or waste them. Your pick. I think i like that the most!

Friendly fire option wouldn't work at all in practice, and it surely should not be controlled on the attackers side. Could you imagine the trolling in a siege? That would be the death of Cyrodiil. Just to be clear, are you suggesting a white list for friendly fire where you only do damage to certain people? Even that implementation is silly as trolls would just put the entire faction on their whitelist.

The more workable approach is just banning people who do things like take scrolls for a different faction.

S10Reaper

Of course its impossible to gank your own faction. DaveMoeDee you completely missed the point.

PosternHouse

scubanj1ub17_ESO wrote: »

Postern, respectfully, you need to go back and read the a little slower and hopefully comprehend it this time. For a number of reasons. One being I posted a letter from ZOS saying what is happening with character swapping among two characters in one campaign is illegal. Yet you say it's not. Even when the Developers clearly say it is. The other is no one is saying don't PvP. If you want a fight go to where the fights are. ZOS was very clear from the start of this game that they wouldn't force PvP on anyone, yet by putting the best XP in a PvP zone that's what they did. So why is everyone so angry us PvE'ers just want to get our XP and get out? Unless the gankers can't win any other way? If so, get better. And go fight where the fights are, not where people are just trying to quest.

I'd wager you didn't have a conversation with a developer. You had a conversation with a customer service rep. If that was a developer conversation you ought to screenshot the email and post it. Otherwise, what you claim is a developer source is merely anecdotal evidence, e.g. of little import.

Also, ZoS did not force you to do your PvE stuff in a PvP-enabled zone. You can make the choice to do PvE in PvE-only zones. The best XP comes from a PvP zone and it comes with a risk. Deal with it or don't deal with it and take your character to PvE-only zones. PvP is not being forced on you, you are choosing to put yourself at risk in order to gain a reward. Sometimes the risk overtakes the reward. It's life. No one is angry at "you PvE'rs". It seems as if you're angry at "us PvP'rs" for engaging in PvP in a PvP zone. Deal with it ... or don't. It's up to you.

scubanj1ub17_ESO

Postern, what you're saying is ZOS customer service makes its own rules? The developers make a game one way and then customer service has a staff meeting and decides to change the rules? I'm guessing that's not the case. What is more likely is customer service has a set of rules the developers created and customer service communicates those rules out to customers such as us. I posted the quote from them, so again, please reread the thread because you're clearly missing things.

I also explained why we are being essentially forced into PvP zones but to save you the effort of rereading I'll re-explain it. Some of us work full time. With our jobs we travel as well. We don't have a lot of time to grind. So if we want to do end game content we need to find ways to level up within the limited time we have. I was a a PC transfer, so I've been playing this game for about two years. I got my first V16 character this month, only after discovering the cyrodiil dailies. ZOS hid the two best ways to get XP (cyrodiil dailies and IC grinding) in PvP zones. So if we as PvE'ers want to do the best PvE content I really have no choice but to go in and do the dailies. So why is it a crime that I want to be left alone to get in, do them, and get out? There are plenty of other ways to get PvP without attacking me.

So I'll say it again, if people want to fight then go to the keeps and fight. Or if you aren't good enough then try to fight one on one in towns by calling people out and dueling. Although I'm guessing most gankers are afraid to do that which is why they get in groups of three, hide inside quest houses, wait for you to engage the NPC and then attack you when you're in a menu. Why is this acceptable? I suppose because most gankers are in grade school (evidenced by the increase in ganking we are seeing over this holiday break). But an adult should know better.

Maim

I wrote directly to BW once suggesting some PvP balance changes. One of the suggestions was either faction locking for the duration of a campaign or removing possibility of AP rewards for engaging in pvp activities once you enter cyrodiil on another faction.

I also suggested having a PvP ONLY Cyrodiil campaign-ie// stripped of all PvE content, including IC entryway (who knows, might fix some of their server lag).

Yes, IC is the best grinding. Yes, you can/will get ganked. Yes, it is more like a PvE zone as it sits. Perhaps no PvP flag until you are v16, because at v16 you no longer have a requirement to be grinding for levels to put you on par (excluding CP)

Finally,

Yes, people are faction hopping given which way the wind is blowing and it's only going to get worse as the restriction from having multiple faction toons on the same campaign is removed (not that it ever mattered, so long as you could group with someone). The 'if you can't beat them, join them' or 'might makes right' mentality is winning here. Sorry, but given circumstances in my life at this time I've had an exceptional amount of time to play over the course of the last half of this year (jobless bum? yes. o wait, disabled and can't work - thank the other driver for that) and I've seen the trend. I'm not the only person to notice this trend, nor the first to voice its 'apparent' impact on PvP as a whole. Yes, I've watched one massive zerg smash one side, with some from the other....then have it switch the other way.....what happened? Look at population counts (ROFL theyre bars and shabby indicators but there) poplocked one way....now the other. You can't say it Doesn't Happen. Even one guild with the motivation and dedication of their members can shift in this manner (you know who you are, I have a good grasp as to who you are too).

It all stems from having no penalty in flipfloppin your faction. It's a social game. We should all get to play together, run, skip, hold hands and pick flowers.......please reward me for bashing your head in with wrecking blow a second after you turn to smell the roses.

scubanj1ub17_ESO

Totally on board with Miam's ideas. Why not do a WoW type of thing where you can turn on engage in PvP or not? Makes perfect sense to me. And locking a campaign also makes perfect sense. It's time SOS starts to wake up or they're going to keep losing good paying customers.

xylena

more people would care about their factions and winning campaigns if we could get some decent rewards and a scoreboard that wasn't rendered meaningless by off-hours PvDooring

Maim

xylena wrote: »

more people would care about their factions and winning campaigns if we could get some decent rewards and a scoreboard that wasn't rendered meaningless by off-hours PvDooring

care about their faction = rewards at end of campaign by putting in effort for it and doing well in that area
scoreboard = way to keep track of those points one has helped their faction to gain
rendered meaningless = population score increased because only a few showed up to play
off-hours = every minute of the day YOU haven't been there. Suggesting that the world revolves around your play times and schedule

Nope. Not it at all.

However, population 'locking' based on number of participants entering the zone to ACTUALLY PvP, or alternatively, Low Population bonus equating to increase in stats to accommodate the lack of numbers to compete against rival factions might alleviate what you are eluding to.

NordJitsu

You guys are being so silly. Do you really believe what you're saying?

The game mechanics prevent you from playing two characters from different alliances in the same server. Go try it.

Even imagining there were a way around it, how would YOU know it's the same character? They can't have the same character name and you don't see their account name in PvP.

Sounds made up.

SoulScream

NordJitsu wrote: »

You guys are being so silly. Do you really believe what you're saying?

The game mechanics prevent you from playing two characters from different alliances in the same server. Go try it.

Even imagining there were a way around it, how would YOU know it's the same character? They can't have the same character name and you don't see their account name in PvP.

Sounds made up.

+many lolz

Winnamine

NordJitsu wrote: »

You guys are being so silly. Do you really believe what you're saying?

The game mechanics prevent you from playing two characters from different alliances in the same server. Go try it.

Even imagining there were a way around it, how would YOU know it's the same character? They can't have the same character name and you don't see their account name in PvP.

Sounds made up.

You can travel to a group member who is homed there. That's how people get opposite faction characters on the same server. It's done so you can play with your friends anywhere. Of course, you're right, you can't have two characters from different alliances homed on the same campaign.

As for how you know, there are ways to get someone's acct name and check it, which I won't detail here bc none of these ppl complaining need help snooping. Otherwise, some people are obvious with their character names. For example, "Whatshisname" "Red Whatshisname" or "Whatshisname" "Whatshizname"

corn-bread-69

This is nothing new and dout anything can be done best bet i think is to get a friend to farm wit least then your never alone

duuude9192b14_ESO

Winnamine wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

If it's within the framework of the game, then it is completely broken. It's bad enough that I have to worry about being jumped from any spot at any location in cyrodiil or how glitchy pvp really is from animation glitching to alliance spying. Major thing I have to worry about now is studying names of players in my own faction to estimate when they are going to turn on me. So far I have a few psn names written down of players that do this. If me or my guild is in a location that they want us to be in, they swap to their other faction character to take us out. It's ridiculous, I see why major pvp guilds and now some guild traders are requiring screen shots of a players character selection sheet. Hopefully something can be resolved about this issue, I'm pretty sure I'm not the player that has experienced this situation.

It's a pvp zone...if you don't want to fight other players, then you probably shouldn't be in Cyrodiil.

Also, protip: no pvp guild you would ever want to be a part of requires a screenshot of your character select screen. Most good pvpers have characters on more than one faction, and any guild that prohibits this is controlling, juvenile, and probably spends most of their time wiping to groups half their size. Some guilds don't like their players to play with other pvp guilds, that's fairly common, but to prohibit you from simply having opposing faction characters? That's ridiculous.

This is becoming a trend in this thread, blaming the OP of not wanting to pvp in a pvp zone. Reading this thread it seems the actual relevant problem is when someone switches factions just to clear out a grinding zone of fellow faction members. It's completely and utterly exploiting a design flaw, dishonorable, and most importantly VERY toxic for the game. Having opposing faction character(s) isn't at all the issue obviously, it's the exploiting of game design WITH said character(s) that is the problem.

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

scubanj1ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are two unassailable facts here.

1) Ganking hurts the game. Takes the fun out of it. Us players who don't PvP come here to get our xp by doing the dailies. If players want to PvP go fight at the keeps. Sneaking around and attacking other players while they're talking to an NPC or fighting mobs already is not PvP. It's immature. It does not take skill. It is tantamount to hitting a man with his back turned. Those that are defending the practice, I'm sure you're the ones doing it and feel the need to defend it because you know how wrong it is. If you're life is so empty you have to ruin other people's time in the game maybe you need to get a better life? Just wait until you graduate middle school. It gets better.

I defend ganking all the time but I don't do it. I would probably get killed. My DPS is crap.

Skill is irrelevant. PvP is ESO is a war, not a tournament.

Your comments are poor logic. If someone defends something, you claim it is because they know it is wrong? And if they don't defend it, I suppose you would say that they admit it is wrong in their silence? Instead of actually having a discussion, you are publicly stating that you will not listen to any arguments that oppose the opinion you already have.

Get your XP elsewhere. You are the problem. If someone attacks you, it is PvP by definition. You are an enemy combatant. You are in a war zone. The game isn't designed to pander to you and give you everything you want the way you want it. Calling others immature won't make that so. It is also a clear case the pot calling the kettle black. Complaining about dying in a PvP war zone is about as immature a it gets. Adults should understand that you don't always get what you want handed to you.

Tell me the logic in a faction that ganks it's own faction. ESO faction pvp has basically turned into a free for all fight no matter which faction is played.

Do not quest in Cyrodiil and not expect to be ganked. It is a PvP zone; if you wish to quest in a place you won't get ganked, go to a PvE zone. It's that simple.

So when Ebonheart players immediately swap to their Aldmeri characters to gank other Ebonheart players just so they can play on their Ebonheart characters in certain farm spots completely makes sense

Yes, it does. Thanks for agreeing.

See above comment. Although I don't agree with OP's standpoint on ganking in general (I respect the play style), I do agree that exploiting the game's design flaws by logging onto opposing faction characters to clear grind spots and grief previously fellow faction members, is toxic for the game and am happy someone is addressing it.

RAGUNAnoOne

pelennor_fields wrote: »

There are two solutions as I see it... The hard way and the easy way...

1. (the hard way) - Force everyone into one faction. Give an option at the login upon the update and all characters will be locked into the chosen alliance.

2. (the easy way) - Make a friendly fire toggle in the style of GTA Online. Some of us are already backstabbing each other - give us all the option to kill each other. Then when you see player "flappysack" who plays on another alliance hanging around your crew while you are taking a keep - kill him... Or not. The choice would be yours. The programming changes would be minimal and the results would be real. Perhaps the only difference being that a kill within the alliance would not force travel to a owned keep or wayshrine. You could revive on the spot if you wanted. Sure some people could troll.. But at least they can't stealth gank you and they are already trolling us and we can't do anything about it. At least with a friendly fire toggle we could kill them.

Or thinking on the fly here, how about a "traitor" option that allows friendly fire only against people with toons on multiple factions. You could work with them or waste them. Your pick. I think i like that the most!

1 impossible since quests rewards and the main story are tied to your starting faction choice
2 seperate campaign with full friendly fire complete with severe penalties (including getting kicked for the duration) if your ally to enemy DPS or healing ratio gets tipped too far in favor of the enemy