pvp players changing characters for ganking

scubanj1ub17_ESO

A few thoughts:

I traded emails with ZOS on this issue and they stated clearly that they prevent a player from having two characters in different alliances with the same campaign. So anyone getting in to do the scroll stealing or 'scout' then swap to kill is very clearly cheating. Here is what ZOS wrote:

"Also please remember, you cannot have another character in an opposing alliance in the same campaign as your main character. This prevents people from playing both sides of the same campaign. "

Clearly it's not working and clearly they're looking the other way on it.

Second, the only way to do dailies in the game (and also get the best XP in the game) without buying DLC (which not everyone can do) is to do them in a PvP area. So us non-PvP players are now forced by ZOS to go in there. Which is why we go to non-populated servers to do it. And even if you got the DLC, only IC grinding is better XP so there are still reasons to go do the cyrodiil dailies that have nothing to do with PvP. So why shouldn't we be allowed to do PvE activities without the grade school antics of hiding and atracking someone who clearly has no interest in fighting? How is that even fun? There is no challenge to that. If you want to PvP so badly then go attack or defend a keep, go to areas that are actively engaged in PvP. Let the people who want to do the quests do them and let the gankers go take on a real fight. Or is the reason you're ganking because you can't win a real fight?

Next, I completely disagree with whoever stated ganking is good for the game. I know many people who have quit because of the practice and a number of others who will if nothing changes. And less players is certainly not good for the game. Some of us have full time jobs, we work all day, travel a lot, etc. we don't have time to grind out quests or grind out areas. But we want to do end game content. So if we can pop a scroll and get a vet level in a few hours we should be able to. I've paid for that right by buying the game and being a Plus member. But now we can't anymore because of children ganking us.

scubanj1ub17_ESO

Let me also add, I keep calling gankers immature because it's never just one person trying to take out another, it's always a group of three or more who stealth, then wait for a player to talk to an NPC or be in a fight with an NPC when they all three attack that one defenseless player. Then, after the three second three on one fight is over they proceed to tea bag like what they just did was some huge accomplishmeant. A hard fought victory over an able and prepared opponent. It's ridiculous. And childish. And immature. And anyone is really going to argue this is good for the game? Come on...

Xeniph

This is a moot point as Wheeler said in the last ESO live they are removing the alliance restriction per account.

However what you are probably seeing is folks with multiple accounts (Totally allowed, btw) in the same campaign as their others on diff faction. ZoS has no way and in fact would not police this, even if they did.

This is a fact of life with MMO's and has been for decades. Hell I have a second account just for mules/bag space.

Winnamine

S10Reaper wrote: »

If it's within the framework of the game, then it is completely broken. It's bad enough that I have to worry about being jumped from any spot at any location in cyrodiil or how glitchy pvp really is from animation glitching to alliance spying. Major thing I have to worry about now is studying names of players in my own faction to estimate when they are going to turn on me. So far I have a few psn names written down of players that do this. If me or my guild is in a location that they want us to be in, they swap to their other faction character to take us out. It's ridiculous, I see why major pvp guilds and now some guild traders are requiring screen shots of a players character selection sheet. Hopefully something can be resolved about this issue, I'm pretty sure I'm not the player that has experienced this situation.

It's a pvp zone...if you don't want to fight other players, then you probably shouldn't be in Cyrodiil.

Also, protip: no pvp guild you would ever want to be a part of requires a screenshot of your character select screen. Most good pvpers have characters on more than one faction, and any guild that prohibits this is controlling, juvenile, and probably spends most of their time wiping to groups half their size. Some guilds don't like their players to play with other pvp guilds, that's fairly common, but to prohibit you from simply having opposing faction characters? That's ridiculous.

ShadoPanauin

S10Reaper wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

scubanj1ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are two unassailable facts here.

1) Ganking hurts the game. Takes the fun out of it. Us players who don't PvP come here to get our xp by doing the dailies. If players want to PvP go fight at the keeps. Sneaking around and attacking other players while they're talking to an NPC or fighting mobs already is not PvP. It's immature. It does not take skill. It is tantamount to hitting a man with his back turned. Those that are defending the practice, I'm sure you're the ones doing it and feel the need to defend it because you know how wrong it is. If you're life is so empty you have to ruin other people's time in the game maybe you need to get a better life? Just wait until you graduate middle school. It gets better.

I defend ganking all the time but I don't do it. I would probably get killed. My DPS is crap.

Skill is irrelevant. PvP is ESO is a war, not a tournament.

Your comments are poor logic. If someone defends something, you claim it is because they know it is wrong? And if they don't defend it, I suppose you would say that they admit it is wrong in their silence? Instead of actually having a discussion, you are publicly stating that you will not listen to any arguments that oppose the opinion you already have.

Get your XP elsewhere. You are the problem. If someone attacks you, it is PvP by definition. You are an enemy combatant. You are in a war zone. The game isn't designed to pander to you and give you everything you want the way you want it. Calling others immature won't make that so. It is also a clear case the pot calling the kettle black. Complaining about dying in a PvP war zone is about as immature a it gets. Adults should understand that you don't always get what you want handed to you.

Tell me the logic in a faction that ganks it's own faction. ESO faction pvp has basically turned into a free for all fight no matter which faction is played.

Do not quest in Cyrodiil and not expect to be ganked. It is a PvP zone; if you wish to quest in a place you won't get ganked, go to a PvE zone. It's that simple.

So when Ebonheart players immediately swap to their Aldmeri characters to gank other Ebonheart players just so they can play on their Ebonheart characters in certain farm spots completely makes sense

Yes, it does. Thanks for agreeing.

Xeniph

scubanj1ub17_ESO wrote: »

Let me also add, I keep calling gankers immature because it's never just one person trying to take out another, it's always a group of three or more who stealth, then wait for a player to talk to an NPC or be in a fight with an NPC when they all three attack that one defenseless player. Then, after the three second three on one fight is over they proceed to tea bag like what they just did was some huge accomplishmeant. A hard fought victory over an able and prepared opponent. It's ridiculous. And childish. And immature. And anyone is really going to argue this is good for the game? Come on...

Just to respond to this.

I NEVER gank with anyone. I am ALWAY solo when I gank on any toon. Nor have I ever "Tea Bagged" anyone as that's just dumb.

And if I am not running around trolling on my baby healer, I am solo ganking on one of my NB's and have been since release.

As to stealth gameplay, this issue has been debated for decades. In my 19 years off MMO's it's been in every one and it's always disliked by people who don't enjoy that playstyle and usually by solo players.

If you want completely fair fights, where you know your opponent is about to attack you, might I suggest duels.

Cormore

this seem like way to much effort for a pvper just to free up a grind zone

LegendaryChef

I have to be honest here and say that I don't have anything against doing this as I do it myself on certain occasions. We ALL know that the most efficent way to grind is with 1 friend and in that certain grind spot it's pointless to "share" it because then both groups are wasting their time and one may as well change. I am all for the "I was first here" and if I come across people grinding I will ask them if they are going to take long and if they tell me yes I change campaign. On the other hand, if I am grinding and some inconsiderate people run through and just tag everything and pull mobs away etc to get ahead of me then yeah you can fully expect me to return 2 minutes later with either my DC or my AD.

It's as simple as that for me, if you act like an idiot then you will be treated like one and yes if you yelled something at me like "gtfo my grind spot" or anything else along those lines when I was there first then your gona get sweeped or recieve my in-game balls on your face, jokes on you!

S10Reaper

So far there are mixed reviews on this subject but I think the point is being missed here. These faction switching players have their characters all on the same account all in the same server. Currently one of the pvp servers that I know of is being farm by these players. They use their Ebonheart characters to take emperor ship then use their Aldmeri characters take emperor ship back again. This constant switching allows abusing of the emperor skill line. Also with this they can farm unbelievable amount of alliance points. So how is all of this fair? This is the exploit that should be stopped.

pelennor_fields

S10Reaper wrote: »

So far there are mixed reviews on this subject but I think the point is being missed here. These faction switching players have their characters all on the same account all in the same server. Currently one of the pvp servers that I know of is being farm by these players. They use their Ebonheart characters to take emperor ship then use their Aldmeri characters take emperor ship back again. This constant switching allows abusing of the emperor skill line. Also with this they can farm unbelievable amount of alliance points. So how is all of this fair? This is the exploit that should be stopped.

Sounds like Scourge ps4 NA. I agree completely. It is exploiting and it is just lazy if ZOS allows it to go unchecked. Nearly destroys the whole point of PvP.

Dositheus

Let me see if I understand this... correctly. This is a thread complaining about pvp in... the one pvp zone in the game?

I don't get people these days. I admit, I'm old. I'm from the days of Atari and oldschool NES games, Doom and MUDs. Back when perma death was a thing, and you could/would get full looted in pvp when you died. I honestly miss the days back when games were difficult and took dedication and effort to be good at. Complaining to try and dumb down content so that it is easy for everyone, eliminates the element of challenge that makes it even worth attempting. Not everyone needs a trophy, not everyone is a winner, not everyone needs to complete content the first time they try it. People these days are missing out, frankly.

Back when I played MUDs, the one I played... you had 60 deaths total from character creation to character perma death. That was both player caused and mob caused death. So... if you died leveling your character to 50.. off of a stupid mob death, that counted. People camped the leveling spots... to try and kill you off while you leveled too. Thieves would steal right out of your inventory.. or off your character. People who killed you would take all your items (rare or mundane) and gold, and you'd be naked. I never had so much fun pvping. Why? Because there was consequence. When I got in a fight, I would sweat, I would be truly scared/excited, and I had a blast. I lost sometimes, but I also prevailed. The losses were painful, and the wins were sweet. Leveling with that sort of fear and excitement truly made the game fun and worthwhile to play.

S10Reaper

Dositheus wrote: »

Let me see if I understand this... correctly. This is a thread complaining about pvp in... the one pvp zone in the game?

I don't get people these days. I admit, I'm old. I'm from the days of Atari and oldschool NES games, Doom and MUDs. Back when perma death was a thing, and you could/would get full looted in pvp when you died. I honestly miss the days back when games were difficult and took dedication and effort to be good at. Complaining to try and dumb down content so that it is easy for everyone, eliminates the element of challenge that makes it even worth attempting. Not everyone needs a trophy, not everyone is a winner, not everyone needs to complete content the first time they try it. People these days are missing out, frankly.

Back when I played MUDs, the one I played... you had 60 deaths total from character creation to character perma death. That was both player caused and mob caused death. So... if you died leveling your character to 50.. off of a stupid mob death, that counted. People camped the leveling spots... to try and kill you off while you leveled too. Thieves would steal right out of your inventory.. or off your character. People who killed you would take all your items (rare or mundane) and gold, and you'd be naked. I never had so much fun pvping. Why? Because there was consequence. When I got in a fight, I would sweat, I would be truly scared/excited, and I had a blast. I lost sometimes, but I also prevailed. The losses were painful, and the wins were sweet. Leveling with that sort of fear and excitement truly made the game fun and worthwhile to play.

Let me help you understand. This exploit is across multiple pvp servers. Scourge is the main one I know about and have messed with. When a group of 20 to 30 players can farm a whole server because of faction change when their characters aren't even suppose to be in the same server, yes it is wrong and against ZOS rules.

NordJitsu

Ganking is part of PvP.

That's the game.

S10Reaper

NordJitsu wrote: »

Ganking is part of PvP.

That's the game.

read the whole forum, you'll see its more than just ganking

PosternHouse

Akatosh forbid you get PvP'd in a PvP zone. Someone call the carebear police!

S10Reaper

PosternHouse wrote: »

Akatosh forbid you get PvP'd in a PvP zone. Someone call the carebear police!

unfair advantage in pvp when its not faction based

PosternHouse

You're either the farmer or the farmed. I wish you luck in your prosperous, non-Cyrodiil based PvE experience.

S10Reaper

easy to comment when you don't even know what the thread is about

NordJitsu

S10Reaper wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Ganking is part of PvP.

That's the game.

read the whole forum, you'll see its more than just ganking

I saw the several complaints.

I chose to respond to one, the most ridiculous.

PosternHouse

S10Reaper wrote: »

easy to comment when you don't even know what the thread is about

Sure I know what the thread is about. The premise of the entire thread was, quoting you, "Here lately I've been experiencing a lot of unnecessary jumping and ganking while either in the IC sewers or questing dailies in Cyrodiil."

There is no such thing as unnecessary jumping or ganking in a PvP zone. It's a PvP zone. Be prepared to defend yourself and bring friends if you have to. If you're looking to quest without getting wrecked, you can to a zone without PvP enabled. There are no implied gentleman's agreements in Cyrodiil.

S10Reaper

obviously trolls out there of course

PosternHouse

S10Reaper wrote: »

obviously trolls out there of course

You are not being trolled just because you don't like what other people are saying. Likewise, you are not being ganked or jumped unnecessarily. PvP happens in PvP zones. If you are not vigilant, you will be taking digital dirt naps. Prepare yourself or just don't PvP. People's motivations to PvP is irrelevant. If they are clearing you out for their own grinding purposes on an alt on another alliance, it is up to you to stop them, bring friends to help, or concede. Sorry.

Winnamine

S10Reaper wrote: »

So far there are mixed reviews on this subject but I think the point is being missed here. These faction switching players have their characters all on the same account all in the same server. Currently one of the pvp servers that I know of is being farm by these players. They use their Ebonheart characters to take emperor ship then use their Aldmeri characters take emperor ship back again. This constant switching allows abusing of the emperor skill line. Also with this they can farm unbelievable amount of alliance points. So how is all of this fair? This is the exploit that should be stopped.

There is no emp skill line anymore unless you're actually emp. Former emp passives are gone, so I don't see how they can abuse it.
As for your claim that these players are faction flipping to flip emp between them...that sounds far fetched to me. That crap would never fly on a well populated server, you'd need way too big of a group of players who could faction flip, and likely their own factions would refuse to help at that point, so it would need to happen on a dead server, and what would be the point? To pass emp back and forth on a dead server where you can't even make decent AP? What a waste of time.
I'm pretty unconvinced this is happening, and if try-hards actually are emp flipping on some dead server so they can have "Former Emperor" under their names, then honestly, who even cares?
I'm beginning to get tin foil hat vibes from you...

S10Reaper

PosternHouse wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

obviously trolls out there of course

You are not being trolled just because you don't like what other people are saying. Likewise, you are not being ganked or jumped unnecessarily. PvP happens in PvP zones. If you are not vigilant, you will be taking digital dirt naps. Prepare yourself or just don't PvP. People's motivations to PvP is irrelevant. If they are clearing you out for their own grinding purposes on an alt on another alliance, it is up to you to stop them, bring friends to help, or concede. Sorry.

This thread is about an exploit. If ESO PVP was based on what it is suppose to be, then fine I get ganked whatever. But when I see player with a EP character that immediately switch to their AD character that's not even suppose to be on the same server based on ZOS rules, that's my problem. Also with massive server farm with multiple players doing the same thing, that's definitely against rules. I'm trying to get attention to this exploit because ZOS needs to do something about it.

PosternHouse

Zenimax fully permits traveling to campaigns one is not homed or guested on via group mechanics. It is not an exploit, considering one is just using game mechanics as they are coded. There is a significant difference between "exploiting" and "stuff you don't like". Just because you say "that is definitely against the rules" doesn't mean it's against any rules at all. Find the rule then say that, otherwise you're making stuff up. Otherwise, fight off your opponents or concede. That is all you can do. Good luck!

S10Reaper

Winnamine wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

So far there are mixed reviews on this subject but I think the point is being missed here. These faction switching players have their characters all on the same account all in the same server. Currently one of the pvp servers that I know of is being farm by these players. They use their Ebonheart characters to take emperor ship then use their Aldmeri characters take emperor ship back again. This constant switching allows abusing of the emperor skill line. Also with this they can farm unbelievable amount of alliance points. So how is all of this fair? This is the exploit that should be stopped.

There is no emp skill line anymore unless you're actually emp. Former emp passives are gone, so I don't see how they can abuse it.
As for your claim that these players are faction flipping to flip emp between them...that sounds far fetched to me. That crap would never fly on a well populated server, you'd need way too big of a group of players who could faction flip, and likely their own factions would refuse to help at that point, so it would need to happen on a dead server, and what would be the point? To pass emp back and forth on a dead server where you can't even make decent AP? What a waste of time.
I'm pretty unconvinced this is happening, and if try-hards actually are emp flipping on some dead server so they can have "Former Emperor" under their names, then honestly, who even cares?
I'm beginning to get tin foil hat vibes from you...

It's still a major exploit either way and ZOS needs to handle it

PosternHouse

Player behaviors you do not approve of does not an exploit make.

Winnamine

S10Reaper wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

S10Reaper wrote: »

So far there are mixed reviews on this subject but I think the point is being missed here. These faction switching players have their characters all on the same account all in the same server. Currently one of the pvp servers that I know of is being farm by these players. They use their Ebonheart characters to take emperor ship then use their Aldmeri characters take emperor ship back again. This constant switching allows abusing of the emperor skill line. Also with this they can farm unbelievable amount of alliance points. So how is all of this fair? This is the exploit that should be stopped.

There is no emp skill line anymore unless you're actually emp. Former emp passives are gone, so I don't see how they can abuse it.
As for your claim that these players are faction flipping to flip emp between them...that sounds far fetched to me. That crap would never fly on a well populated server, you'd need way too big of a group of players who could faction flip, and likely their own factions would refuse to help at that point, so it would need to happen on a dead server, and what would be the point? To pass emp back and forth on a dead server where you can't even make decent AP? What a waste of time.
I'm pretty unconvinced this is happening, and if try-hards actually are emp flipping on some dead server so they can have "Former Emperor" under their names, then honestly, who even cares?
I'm beginning to get tin foil hat vibes from you...

It's still a major exploit either way and ZOS needs to handle it

IC basically exists so people can run around and kill each other and take each other's things. So really, who cares who's attacking you or why? Fight them! That's the whole point.
As for the emp farming thing, if they're doing it, it's pointless. Annoying, sure, but pointless. This is why ZoS took away our former emp buffs, so people wouldn't have motivation or be rewarded for behavior like that. If some players are doing it anyway, well, you can't fix stupid.
What you have to understand is, at this point in the game, especially on PC, players are often in multiple guilds, even on different factions, they have friends on other factions, and they want to be able to play with them. Taking away the ability of so many players to play with their cross faction friends and guilds just so that a few idiots who haven't realized what a colossal waste of time it is yet will stop emp farming, would be a poor decision for the community.

scubanj1ub17_ESO

Postern, respectfully, you need to go back and read the a little slower and hopefully comprehend it this time. For a number of reasons. One being I posted a letter from ZOS saying what is happening with character swapping among two characters in one campaign is illegal. Yet you say it's not. Even when the Developers clearly say it is. The other is no one is saying don't PvP. If you want a fight go to where the fights are. ZOS was very clear from the start of this game that they wouldn't force PvP on anyone, yet by putting the best XP in a PvP zone that's what they did. So why is everyone so angry us PvE'ers just want to get our XP and get out? Unless the gankers can't win any other way? If so, get better. And go fight where the fights are, not where people are just trying to quest.

DaveMoeDee

S10Reaper wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

scubanj1ub17_ESO wrote: »

There are two unassailable facts here.

1) Ganking hurts the game. Takes the fun out of it. Us players who don't PvP come here to get our xp by doing the dailies. If players want to PvP go fight at the keeps. Sneaking around and attacking other players while they're talking to an NPC or fighting mobs already is not PvP. It's immature. It does not take skill. It is tantamount to hitting a man with his back turned. Those that are defending the practice, I'm sure you're the ones doing it and feel the need to defend it because you know how wrong it is. If you're life is so empty you have to ruin other people's time in the game maybe you need to get a better life? Just wait until you graduate middle school. It gets better.

I defend ganking all the time but I don't do it. I would probably get killed. My DPS is crap.

Skill is irrelevant. PvP is ESO is a war, not a tournament.

Your comments are poor logic. If someone defends something, you claim it is because they know it is wrong? And if they don't defend it, I suppose you would say that they admit it is wrong in their silence? Instead of actually having a discussion, you are publicly stating that you will not listen to any arguments that oppose the opinion you already have.

Get your XP elsewhere. You are the problem. If someone attacks you, it is PvP by definition. You are an enemy combatant. You are in a war zone. The game isn't designed to pander to you and give you everything you want the way you want it. Calling others immature won't make that so. It is also a clear case the pot calling the kettle black. Complaining about dying in a PvP war zone is about as immature a it gets. Adults should understand that you don't always get what you want handed to you.

Tell me the logic in a faction that ganks it's own faction. ESO faction pvp has basically turned into a free for all fight no matter which faction is played.

It is impossible to gank your own faction. You can't attack people in your own faction.

I don't see a problem with switching characters so long as each individual character acts for the benefit of the faction they are in. If you are in a quest hub long enough for someone to swap characters and ride their horse over, you should not expect to not face enemies for that extended amount of time.