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Lets talk about Vigor.
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bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭What did I tell you @bardx86. You're just upset you can't kill good stamina builds and want an easier time. WTF does he need vigor for? For when he is fighting actually competent opponents. Your follow up QQ is only more firmly proving my points.
BTW there's no such thing as 40% passive dodge.
I guess I should feel honored that he was using vigor then. I love how people on these sites like to claim what other posters "want". I haven't asked for anything as of yet. I'm just voicing my opinion on the game mechanics. I personally think that the classes are a little out of balance when you add vigor to stam classes. BTW I never said I didn't kill him.Edited by bardx86 on December 19, 2015 9:19PM0 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »nordsavage wrote: »Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.
staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?
Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....
woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe
i also never saw a magicka user onehitting me, well i get onhitted very offten from staminas
My Crystal Fragments hits people for 16k what gear is your Sorcerer wearing? Also have been hit that hard consistently.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting one shotted me at full health so many time in one day that I cured Vamp I only used the stealth speed not worth that Hell.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting is basically a double Crit Ultimate.
16k? dang whats your build look like?
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bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.Edited by bardx86 on December 19, 2015 9:20PM1 -
Diozaels✭✭Fun for who OP? I find it immensely fun to kite around the environment for survival. That's why I'm saying you have no perspective, you're commenting only from the view of a magicka user with no stamina experience. If you have 4 people on one guy and they are able to mitigate 4 sources of damage by kiting boulders, how is that anything short of a l2p issue? The fact that you think a Stam sorc is more OP and survivable than a magicka sorc really makes your opinion invalid in my eyes. Like I said, if you think it's so powerful make a stamina build and get some experience to see if your views are sound.
And to all the people complaining magicka doesn't have a vigor morph, do you people seriously not see the advantage that being able to spam class skills gives you? You want a magicka morph? Fine. Then give every class viable stamina morphs for every relevant Stam skill. Then we can talk. But at that point, why even have different stamina or magicka categories?
Seriously tho, a magicka sorc commenting on how another build is too survive able . Lol these forums never stop amusing me.
Glad I could amuse you, at least you are getting something constructive out of this. Guess we will just have to disagree on the running around boulders game play, not my cup of tea. The L2P is don't follow, think I've "L"ed that of the 2P. I'd rather fight in an open space and let the cards fall.
If you hate line of sight so much just run dungeons. Those bosses tend to stay still and don't dodge roll ever. It's a lot easier for tanks to keep the enemy still for you in pve than pvp.0 -
Baconlad✭✭✭✭✭
✭I am all for removal of vigor, removal of increased roll dodge cost and removal of blocking with no Stam recovery...game was better balanced then. Also give rally to fighters guild so all weapons have its minor healing capabilities.0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
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BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
Edited by BuggeX on December 20, 2015 12:13AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
I get templars and Dk's aren't in the best spot atm, but I get tired of people saying some of these things. 1 "Dk doesn't even have a heal or gap closer", you do HAVE dragon blood and chains. You have them, just because zos is taking their time fixing them doesn't change that. Also what edge does a sorc have for getting more max resource than other classes? NB's can get 8% max magicka for any syphoning skill being slotted (same buff sorc's can get with a toggle on each bar) and NB's can get max health per shadow skill slotted, your "impossible for other classes other than sorcs" comment just reads off as a 'I dislike sorcs' post.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
I get templars and Dk's aren't in the best spot atm, but I get tired of people saying some of these things. 1 "Dk doesn't even have a heal or gap closer", you do HAVE dragon blood and chains. You have them, just because zos is taking their time fixing them doesn't change that. Also what edge does a sorc have for getting more max resource than other classes? NB's can get 8% max magicka for any syphoning skill being slotted (same buff sorc's can get with a toggle on each bar) and NB's can get max health per shadow skill slotted, your "impossible for other classes other than sorcs" comment just reads off as a 'I dislike sorcs' post.
and im tried of ppls say chains is a gap closer........#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
I get templars and Dk's aren't in the best spot atm, but I get tired of people saying some of these things. 1 "Dk doesn't even have a heal or gap closer", you do HAVE dragon blood and chains. You have them, just because zos is taking their time fixing them doesn't change that. Also what edge does a sorc have for getting more max resource than other classes? NB's can get 8% max magicka for any syphoning skill being slotted (same buff sorc's can get with a toggle on each bar) and NB's can get max health per shadow skill slotted, your "impossible for other classes other than sorcs" comment just reads off as a 'I dislike sorcs' post.
and im tried of ppls say chains is a gap closer........
DK (successfully) cast chains. They are now in melee range, one way or another. How is that not a gap closer? Not to mention leap, that while an ultimate, is the longest range gap closer in game.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
I get templars and Dk's aren't in the best spot atm, but I get tired of people saying some of these things. 1 "Dk doesn't even have a heal or gap closer", you do HAVE dragon blood and chains. You have them, just because zos is taking their time fixing them doesn't change that. Also what edge does a sorc have for getting more max resource than other classes? NB's can get 8% max magicka for any syphoning skill being slotted (same buff sorc's can get with a toggle on each bar) and NB's can get max health per shadow skill slotted, your "impossible for other classes other than sorcs" comment just reads off as a 'I dislike sorcs' post.
and im tried of ppls say chains is a gap closer........
DK (successfully) cast chains. They are now in melee range, one way or another. How is that not a gap closer? Not to mention leap, that while an ultimate, is the longest range gap closer in game.
you can doge chains, you know? you can also block it and nothing happens, you get free cc immunity.
ahh i forgot, it doesnt work if the target is at a higher pllace like stairs
you will miss 90% of leap if you try it over 10m, because you know the only gap closer which doesnt snare a target for 100% to not miss....Zos logickEdited by BuggeX on December 20, 2015 1:02AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Please, stop being ridiculous. We all have 3 attributes, and we all need to use them. My stam DK burns through a lot of magicka, Igneous shield and scales being the worst offenders, but to me, they are necessary. So, to combat this I throw points into magicka regen and cost reduction.wath defense are you talking about? there isnt a cp for def vs Stamina.
you know wath magicka users have to skill???? breakfree costs, blockcosts and Bastion if you are a sorc,
fact is, if you are out of Stamina for break free you are dead.
and you know how often a magicka user is able to do so? 2 times, cause you also have to doge atleast 1 time
My main source of damage is actually flame, so I also split points between Mighty and Elemental Expert. Do you see me complaining? No. Because we all have to make sacrifices to get the most out of our builds. Quit your whining.
This is the whole point of this post. Adding vigor allows some Stam builds to ignore one of the stat bars completely. Magicka classes can not do that.
Find one stamina build that does need magic. Challenge issued.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »nordsavage wrote: »Yes, yes, yes only magicka builds should be able to fight or heal . . . NOT.
staminas have by far better Options to fight, block/breakfree/doge, why the *** should you also be able to heal?
Yet magicka has the highest dps in pvp, a better time solo in vmsa and hits harder in pvp....
woooootttt??????? i never saw a overloaded la or cfrag or even DB of smithing vs a Vamp with 13k, well i see regulary 13-15k wb or snipe
i also never saw a magicka user onehitting me, well i get onhitted very offten from staminas
My Crystal Fragments hits people for 16k what gear is your Sorcerer wearing? Also have been hit that hard consistently.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting one shotted me at full health so many time in one day that I cured Vamp I only used the stealth speed not worth that Hell.
Dawnbreaker of Smiting is basically a double Crit Ultimate.
16k? dang whats your build look like?
25% Spell Pen, 25% magic damage buff full light desto staff and pure spell damage can hit stack all the spell pen you can then damage and then we'll lolzChaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
It's not possible for any class if they want to maintain a functional PvP build lol.
Maybe a PvE sorc running Inner Light +Bound Armor(yay for only 6 skill slots) and using tri-stat food, focusing everything on raw attributes, can get 40k magicka and 20k stamina. But why? It's a crap build.
You shouldn't be using toggles in PvP. You shouldn't be stacking raw stats. Saying that magicka builds have 40k magicka and 20k stamina in PvP, because possible if you stack stupid crap, is laughable. Also irrelevant, at least on PC where we know that other stats matters just as much or even more in PvP.
I see two problem when I think of Vigor.
1. Restoration Staff not offering much spell power = Resto heals being weaker than heals that can be used with DW or 2-Hander. Not only a Vigor thing really, Templar heals and many others can also be used with DW and therefore outshines resto.
2. Battle Spirit ruining Green Dragon Blood and other defensive skills since scaling of health. Battle Spirit not ruining heals and defensive skills scaling of magicka&stamina. So DK's now have more healing as stamina build and way more burst, compared to using magicka. It feels a bit of.
But these issue aren't about Vigor itself, rather a bunch of other things that needs rebalancing,
0 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I am all for removal of vigor, removal of increased roll dodge cost and removal of blocking with no Stam recovery...game was better balanced then. Also give rally to fighters guild so all weapons have its minor healing capabilities.
How about no. Seriously you magicka uses need to stop with the QQ.2 -
Forestd16b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@CP5 To bad dragons blood isn't that good of a heal and both morphs cost magicka which stamina DKs don't tend to have alot of and chains is just a joke. Deals little damage can be easily dodged and a sorcerers BE ball thingy takes the hit instead of the sorcerer.
DKs and Tempalrs are in a bad spot and ZOS is doing nothing about it.0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭the Problem of vigor is not the heal or somthing else, it the fact that someone doesnt Need a weapon to use it.
Magicka Sorc have to Slot restro,
Magicka DK has to Slot restro, or use gdb.......
Magicka NB has to Slot restro, or use the few hots he have
Stamina class, well Slot vigor and Keep it up
Same could be said about Major Brutality vs Major Sorcery. To get their 20% spell damage buffs, mages just need rank 4 in the mages guild. No particular weapon required, and it also has a minor HoT attached to it. Great spell (entropy).
Stam users want major brutality they have to use a 2 handed weapon, max out 2h to level 38 and get Momentum, or max out dual wield and get flying dagger.
There's always going to be something someone is missing out on unfortunately. I do understand where you're coming from though, because I feel the same way about the buff I described above.
Good point. Some people want balance to mean everyone has the exact same everything. Each builds should have advantages and disadvantages.0 -
Cathexis✭✭✭✭✭
✭Magicka users get about twice as much build diversity as stamina users do. This whole thread is absurd.
You think vigor is OP? Fine.
I think that magicka classes having a monopoly on 80%-90% of class skills and how almost all ultimate is based on spell pierce and how magicka have 5 times as many classless healing abilities and how only magicka benefits from proxy det and how sheild stackers dont have to have crit resist and how only magicka classes have access to purge and how dodge/block/cc break/sprint/sneak does not come from your main resource pool is OP.
You think you have it bad? How about you try playing a stamina character before shouting for nerfs.Edited by Cathexis on December 20, 2015 6:48AMTome of Alteration Magic I - Reality is an Ancient Dwemer Construct: Everything You Need to Know About FPS
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/520903/tomb-of-fps-alteration-magic-everything-you-need-to-know-about-fps
Tome of Alteration Magic II - The Manual of the Deceiver: A Beginner's Guide to Thieving
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/462509/tome-of-alteration-mastery-ii-the-decievers-manual-thieving-guide-for-new-characters
Ultrawide ESO Adventure Screenshots - 7680 x 1080 Resolution
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/505262/adventures-in-ultra-ultrawide-an-ongoing-series1 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
This is on my templar and my nb.
Fwiw
Templar vr16 gold gear 5x kragneracs 4x magnus, breton 3x willpower, sword and board or dw
10% spell res from CP
3900 passive
2.8k? From templar balanced warrior
Light armor passive
Nirnhoned sword spell res buff.
With channeled focus up i have something like 31k spell resist, I use inner light as 7% max magicka 2% regen and spell crit buff are important to my build.
I use tri stat food in pvp, and have a spare chest piece with a stam glyph enchant, plus undaunted bonsues, I get to something like 17k stam and 40k magicka, with 25k HP in cyro.
My imperial mag blade thanks to the stat bonuses is using the same gear, but will simply have 28k hp, and 20k stam, with the same max magicka etc0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭caeliusstarbreaker wrote: »Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »tony.augeb14_ESO wrote: »Its a very powerful skill for the Stam users and Its becoming the a prevalent meta. I mean every Stam class is using. I'm not convinced that high damage/mobility classes with pretty good defensive stills really needed this skill. Stam classes can now pretty much stand toe to toe with DPS magicka classes and pretty much ignore there class defensive skill. The game is turning into run around a rock spamming vigor, some kind of mobility buff and wreaking blow. It's making for some pretty boring combat. Just wanted to get others opinions on this subject as well, thoughts?
Are you saying it needs a buff so they do stand toe to toe?
Yea it was also right there were I just started to laugh my arse off. Oh so you want stamina users to be a worthless build in PvP cause you want easy kills.
Nice way pull a sentence out of context. Stam User were more than viable prior to vigor. And no a Stam build should not be able to out heal a Magic sorc. The only class that should be able to do that is a Templar. Other Stam classes should have to rely on their defensive class skills. What I'm saying that Stam users can now ignore there class defensive skills and just rely on Vigor, that doesn't seem right to me. Furthermore combining vigor with the ability to stack everything into Stam to have the best damage, best mobility, best resources for CC break, Dodge role, block and passive dodge it a little overboard. Magic classes need healing as they can not block or dodge role to evade damage the same way a Stam class can. This is a huge defensive unbalance. Why do you think King Richard is running a Stam Sorc? Its not just NB and DK Stam Sorcs get the same advantage. So either Vigor needs a change or Doge role\CC break needs a Magicka morph to balance.
So regale us, why stam users shouldn't be able to out heal a sorc? Nothing about a sorc, nor about magicka in general stipulates you should have the best healing.
Also by your own diluted argument, should my stamina templar be able to out heal your sorc? Should it be equal? Should I only be able to heal as much to survive other attacks but die to you?
All a sorc is, is the magical dps equivalent to stamina, only with shields, THE BEST MOBILITY IN THE GAME (which is enough for your argument to go out the window but I'll continue) and an entire resource pool solely dedicated to CC break and dodge... Where stamina dps, dodge roll, CC break are all in one green bar. You stack shields.. Stamina users have to stack vigor and rally, mind you the burst heal from rally is only worth anything after it's been running for a while. Maybe you should actually l2p if you can't take a perfectly effective class, with an ability that does dmg, immob, and heals in one ability as a counter to melee, can generate distance in an instant, and can stack shields far exceeding your own health limit, and kill a stamina user.
Stop complaining about vigor, it's only worth a crap when in conjunction with rally, or igneous, or dodge roll.... Which is the very same defensive abilities we are using, given class parameters, to even begin to make vigor heal at all in the current battle spirit era.
Magicka Sorcs do not have the best mobility in the game btw, common missconception. And yes we have a whole bar dedicated to CC and break free which allows us a whole 2 dodge roles and a break free, totally op I know. Shield do not stack more than health against melee attacks. You can not streak way from anyone using a gap closer. You are totally right I need to L2P.
That's obviously showing a massive weakness in your build then.
Also just get this fact straight, magicka users have an advance over stam for one simple reason.
Your stamina bar, that entire thing is purely for cc and dodge roll and block. You don't need it for anything else. Even with 0 stam you can streak, shields, damage etc.
A stam user needs his stam bar for all the above, with no stam they can do ziltch, nothinf, nadda, zero.
Your average magicka build in pvp should have a minimum of 17k stamina, if not 20k.
So a 15-20k pool of stam just for blocking, dodge roll, CC break.
That leaves you with a 40k roughly magicka pool, to spam attacks and heals and shields to your hearts content.
A stam user has 36k stam, to which they have to do everything, so every roll dodge, break free etc is eating into their main resource.
Besides the point how much stam do you have to have such little resources? Maybe being a glass cannon is a bit dump in pvp, my Breton templar has around 17k stamin, my imperial should be closer to 20k stam with 38k magicka.
and then aigan, you are speaking for one magicka class, yet magicka Templer and dk dont have a escape, we cant run arround with 40k magicka and 0 Stamina, we also cant jump out of roots like nb or sorc. we also dont have a magicka Speed buff, wath any Stamina user can use without a wast of 7k Stamina.
dk doesnt even have a heal or gap closer.
and i dont know where the *** you get you res, but 40k magicka and 20k Stamina is impossible for other class than sorcs
It's not possible for any class if they want to maintain a functional PvP build lol.
Maybe a PvE sorc running Inner Light +Bound Armor(yay for only 6 skill slots) and using tri-stat food, focusing everything on raw attributes, can get 40k magicka and 20k stamina. But why? It's a crap build.
You shouldn't be using toggles in PvP. You shouldn't be stacking raw stats. Saying that magicka builds have 40k magicka and 20k stamina in PvP, because possible if you stack stupid crap, is laughable. Also irrelevant, at least on PC where we know that other stats matters just as much or even more in PvP.
I see two problem when I think of Vigor.
1. Restoration Staff not offering much spell power = Resto heals being weaker than heals that can be used with DW or 2-Hander. Not only a Vigor thing really, Templar heals and many others can also be used with DW and therefore outshines resto.
2. Battle Spirit ruining Green Dragon Blood and other defensive skills since scaling of health. Battle Spirit not ruining heals and defensive skills scaling of magicka&stamina. So DK's now have more healing as stamina build and way more burst, compared to using magicka. It feels a bit of.
But these issue aren't about Vigor itself, rather a bunch of other things that needs rebalancing,
I play ok pc buddy, used to play on console, so don't give me that crap.
It is easily possible, my Breton templar has 17k of stam whilst using 40k of magicka and 25k hp.
Undaunted passives are a big help, I use inner light as it's vital to my build, I do fairly well in pvp on pc, and used to faceroll most people on console, hence why I left as it got boring.
The same build I've used in vmsa, a healer in group dungeons, my build also has 1700 buff regen and 3450 spell power.thays at just 200 cp.
My new alt is an imperial magbladr, which with the 8% magicka buff from passives and hp buff from passives and regen buffs using the same gear I'll simply have another 3k hp, 2k stamina with the same magicka and another 200 regen.
I have a larger stam pool for pvp. As I'm sure someone like you should know a good pvp build will be more well rounded, otherwise I could only break free a couple of times . Like people QQ'ING about it on here.1 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭pics or it didn't happend#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭Is this the destiny forums now ?
It's pretty easy just think about it for a second
Taking an imperial
At 500 400cp, with racial buff and nothing else you'll have around 13k stamina base, simply add 4100 from tri stat food.
Then add in another 6% bonuses.
If you lookover on Tamriel foundry many builds are running 17k stamina with no racial passives. Just base stat with food.0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What exactly is the big counterargument the "pro Vigor faction" has?
I remember moaning about 1.6 and how stamina hits so much harder and in BURSTS than Magicka. Has to do with champion points and stealth modifier and passives like med armor and Flawless Dawnbreaker. Back in those days, I've been told stamina is supposed to hit harder since it's lacking the healing of magicka. People babbled about "risk vs reward" and stuff like that.
Now, with Vigor giving stamina AT LEAST as much healing as magicka users, where is that justification now? Stamina still hits way harder and multiplies with sneak.
People now defend stamina with class abilities. Hey, that was a 1.0 problem! ZOS have acknowledged and given stamina morphs to many skills. There even is a "Stamina Sorc" now in this game, which sounds ABSURD to me, but let's not get too deep into that.
Anyway, some of those stamina morphs are even BETTER than their magicka counterpart. Gladly would I take a magicka version of Unstable Flames on my DK for more damage, as healing is cut. How often do you die in Cyrodiil to Lotus Fan spam? As for me, I always only see Ambush!
And above all, magicka users get a sh*tty destruction staff skill line which many casters abandon for increased DW spellpower. Abandoning light weaving, something staminas can do without drawbacks. Doesn't this already show magicka doesn't have a monopoly any more? No? Okay, what about our healing staff line? Unlike Vigor, we have to SLOT a frikkin' healing staff to get our heals! And staffs are weak! What do stamina users get? A near-completely useful 2H skill line and a high-damage DW skill line with the best AoE in the game. And a bow. Give me a magicka morph of Wrecking Blow and Steel Tornado, and then we can talk about equality!
Finally, after going through all instances, stamina users are grasping for straws and claiming having to pay everything with their main resource. Um, hello? Have I hit my head to hard or what? Isn't that an ADVANTAGE???
Look, magicka DK vampire here. 1200 magicka regen, ~600 stamina. My magicka recharges TWICE as fast as my stamina. I would happily break free or sprint with my magicka, as I simply have much more of that!
Further, when you ask people how to beat a Sorcerer without Shield Breaker, the answer is almost always "target their stamina bar". Yeah, this is PROOF that having an "unused" stamina bar isn't godmode, as people claim to be. Yes, there is a bit of a stamina pool. But once it's empty, it's gone for good. And we magickas are dead. Dodgeroll nerf hit us harder, as we have less stamina. Blocking? No option! When stamina guys run out of stamina, they can just flee for cover *cough* dark cloak *cough* and come back with half the bar afterwards, ready to do whatever the situation calls for! Casters have to keep a very sharp eye on how many stamina is left, even though they could lay waste to Molag Bal himself with their 40k magicka left. But the best magicka pool is useless when you get cc'ed.
And a last thing, your magicka is not wasted if you're a stamina char. Dark Cloak is the best example, but also Fossilize and Mass Hysteria and Purge and whatever are skills that do not require spellpower. See, the roles are equal, just reversed. Magicka users may break free with their "reserve" stamina bar, but stamina users cc people with their "reserve" magicka bar.
So, let me ask the question again:
What is your strongest argument that justifies Vigor taking away the one little weakness stamina builds had and not downscaling the strengths for recompensation?1 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭What exactly is the big counterargument the "pro Vigor faction" has?
I remember moaning about 1.6 and how stamina hits so much harder and in BURSTS than Magicka. Has to do with champion points and stealth modifier and passives like med armor and Flawless Dawnbreaker. Back in those days, I've been told stamina is supposed to hit harder since it's lacking the healing of magicka. People babbled about "risk vs reward" and stuff like that.
Now, with Vigor giving stamina AT LEAST as much healing as magicka users, where is that justification now? Stamina still hits way harder and multiplies with sneak.
People now defend stamina with class abilities. Hey, that was a 1.0 problem! ZOS have acknowledged and given stamina morphs to many skills. There even is a "Stamina Sorc" now in this game, which sounds ABSURD to me, but let's not get too deep into that.
Anyway, some of those stamina morphs are even BETTER than their magicka counterpart. Gladly would I take a magicka version of Unstable Flames on my DK for more damage, as healing is cut. How often do you die in Cyrodiil to Lotus Fan spam? As for me, I always only see Ambush!
And above all, magicka users get a sh*tty destruction staff skill line which many casters abandon for increased DW spellpower. Abandoning light weaving, something staminas can do without drawbacks. Doesn't this already show magicka doesn't have a monopoly any more? No? Okay, what about our healing staff line? Unlike Vigor, we have to SLOT a frikkin' healing staff to get our heals! And staffs are weak! What do stamina users get? A near-completely useful 2H skill line and a high-damage DW skill line with the best AoE in the game. And a bow. Give me a magicka morph of Wrecking Blow and Steel Tornado, and then we can talk about equality!
Finally, after going through all instances, stamina users are grasping for straws and claiming having to pay everything with their main resource. Um, hello? Have I hit my head to hard or what? Isn't that an ADVANTAGE???
Look, magicka DK vampire here. 1200 magicka regen, ~600 stamina. My magicka recharges TWICE as fast as my stamina. I would happily break free or sprint with my magicka, as I simply have much more of that!
Further, when you ask people how to beat a Sorcerer without Shield Breaker, the answer is almost always "target their stamina bar". Yeah, this is PROOF that having an "unused" stamina bar isn't godmode, as people claim to be. Yes, there is a bit of a stamina pool. But once it's empty, it's gone for good. And we magickas are dead. Dodgeroll nerf hit us harder, as we have less stamina. Blocking? No option! When stamina guys run out of stamina, they can just flee for cover *cough* dark cloak *cough* and come back with half the bar afterwards, ready to do whatever the situation calls for! Casters have to keep a very sharp eye on how many stamina is left, even though they could lay waste to Molag Bal himself with their 40k magicka left. But the best magicka pool is useless when you get cc'ed.
And a last thing, your magicka is not wasted if you're a stamina char. Dark Cloak is the best example, but also Fossilize and Mass Hysteria and Purge and whatever are skills that do not require spellpower. See, the roles are equal, just reversed. Magicka users may break free with their "reserve" stamina bar, but stamina users cc people with their "reserve" magicka bar.
So, let me ask the question again:
What is your strongest argument that justifies Vigor taking away the one little weakness stamina builds had and not downscaling the strengths for recompensation?
great post2
