Get rid of templar class

Brrrofski

Destyran wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

2 templars with sword and board died to someone using overload and use it as a premise for changing anything - oh god.

Yeah its pretty much a one shot??? Jesus beam use to almost be one shot like overload. I call give us back the beam or nerf overload. You all have the same build anyway. The should just make crystal frags morph instant so you have spammable

It's not a one shot at all.

It's blockable and easilly dodgeable also.

When it comes to things sorc kill me with, overload is quite far down on the list

Destyran

Still does too much damage for pvp. So you are telling me if i grind a sorc min max it stand in back of a group and use mages fury or whatever with iverload i wont get a killionare???

FENGRUSH

Destyran wrote: »

Still does too much damage for pvp. So you are telling me if i grind a sorc min max it stand in back of a group and use mages fury or whatever with iverload i wont get a killionare???

I absolutely invite you to try it - try connecting 2 overloads and see how well it goes for you. You also have to take into consideration what a magicka sorc is doing and giving up to hit that hard. Its not really that impressive. A curse/det/dawnbreaker combo would hit much harder and in a shorter span of time. Doesnt even include instant proc frags or mages fury which.. isnt that great or needed there.

Destyran

Ill make a sorc toon and give it a go. I cbf to grind v16 so ill v1 and yellow gear it for that battle level and see what happens.

DaveMoeDee

Tryxus wrote: »

Yeah, this thread just screams "helpful"

Or it just screams...

Waffennacht

Destyran wrote: »

Still does too much damage for pvp. So you are telling me if i grind a sorc min max it stand in back of a group and use mages fury or whatever with iverload i wont get a killionare???

If you wanna think about it like that, then NBs should be up there too (or any min max stam character and WB)

I have yet to have any magicka based attack do as much as WB. Both magicka and stam can hit for 10k+ however the stam based attacks will generate higher damage.

This isn't sorc or any class specific. Pump up your damage and resources sacrificing utility and health, you become a high dmg dealer.

At least frag can't be spammed, overload, yes it is a high damage dealer. HOWEVER it is not like other range attacks, it does not have the "auto aim" thing going on, you gotta line that up and connect, high mobility opponents make this very difficult.

I would say templar is the weakest 1v1 PvP, however you cannot find anywhere near the synergy of a NB or DK paired with a templar. Those Duos can become more powerful than other pairs.

I agree temps needs buffs, yet we also need all moves to function properly before we can make an educated analysis of the templar class.

Destyran

Yes wrecking blow is a lil broken but thats due to cp point lacking in protection and broken cc like fears perma fear but the people who just mash wrecking blow will cry so hard if you take it away people will realise they suck at pvp and rage quit. I guess thats why zos havent addressed the issue because all the casuals want is a easy button and this is it! Paired with telestrike and the attractive stealth class that lures all the 'mlg' cod players you can literally just mash the controller and more often than not win. I have literally been walking deep within my home controlled area and been insta killed and watched 10+ nb telestrike ambush lotusfan me whike i insta died. It is broken but its fotm and its making casuals play. But yes i 100% agree with everything you said @Waffennacht

Khivas_Carrick

All moves working properly to judge is one thing in PvP, but by god do we need love in PvE still for Stamina.

Lore_lai

Regarding Overload.

Nerfing Overload is not the way to go, IMO. You have to keep in mind that there is also the PvE environment that has to be kept balanced.
Also a sorc that wants to have top of the line numbers on all of their attacks would have to spec into both Elemental Expert AND Thaumaturge as opposed to, say, a Magicka NB who can just go Thaumaturge. <-- I sometimes see higher Concealed attacks than Overload from your average sorc.
Then you have the stamina sorcs to keep in mind - there are enough Ultis already that scale with magicka-based CPs.

That's just my 2 cents. I personally think nerfing Overload would create an imbalance. Heck, I don't even see Overload-spamming sorcs all over the place.
And yes, Overload *is* very clunky (especially at really high ping) and that is not even considering when it likes to bug out and put you in heavy attack mode that you have to block-cancel out of.

FENGRUSH

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people dont really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

AfkNinja

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people don't really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

LOL, don't let @Ezareth know Overlol is bad in pvp.

catalyst10e

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people dont really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

^This. I remember I used to use it all the time in the earlier days of my PVPing, curse, overload, frag. as I got better I relied on it less and less, and ow I really only slot it for the extra bar.

Ezareth

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people dont really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

Kind of like saying an experience player will never die to wrecking blow.


True, there are not many good sorcs I've seen using it and none that I've fought. I kill good players with it all the time however and it hits hard harder than the crystal fragments people complain about when used properly. Any time you damage a sorc you are vulnerable to it and pound for pound it hits harder than anything in your arsenal.

AfkNinja

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people dont really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

Kind of like saying an experience player will never die to wrecking blow.


True, there are not many good sorcs I've seen using it and none that I've fought. I kill good players with it all the time however and it hits hard harder than the crystal fragments people complain about when used properly. Any time you damage a sorc you are vulnerable to it and pound for pound it hits harder than anything in your arsenal.

Rec just for the clip. that movie.

FENGRUSH

Ezareth wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I dont even think it would matter if you nerf overload - people dont really use it in PvP. It gets used in PVE to burst mobs down in small windows. Any experienced player is not going to die to this.

Kind of like saying an experience player will never die to wrecking blow.


True, there are not many good sorcs I've seen using it and none that I've fought. I kill good players with it all the time however and it hits hard harder than the crystal fragments people complain about when used properly. Any time you damage a sorc you are vulnerable to it and pound for pound it hits harder than anything in your arsenal.

Lol we both know it can have some use - but youre going to be blindsiding a good player for the most part to close the kill. It can hit really hard, but its not very fast - and I wouldnt rate it anywhere in the higher spectrum of things that are crushing people without a counter.

WB is a bit different, and sure it can be dodged - but its not nearly as easy as overload. If you know what youre doing with WB, you can start winding to hit targets as they exit out of rolls too. Im sure Ive left a couple thousand people upset in this regard.

Barlthump

Destyran wrote: »

Hello sorc. Well where is my ulti or anyone elses that gives you a third utility bar and hits that much in pvp??

Okay for this I'm going to say L2P. I'm a stam nightblade. If any sorc uses overload in pvp I'm the happiest man alive. Those balls of lightning travel so slow I dodge roll it forever. But I do agree with the 3rd utility bar and the thing hitting like a truck in pve. My vr 6 sorc hits as hard my nightblade when she is battle leveled or even more. 25k dps with just mindless light attacks for a boss fight is just too insane.

Whitebrad25

Don't get rid of my Templar!

Destyran

Whitebrad25 wrote: »

Don't get rid of my Templar!

@Whitebrad25 nice stats what are they Unbuffed? And what gear/food/drink are you using? Seems sketchy looking at stat distribution etc. shopped? Or nah
@Asayre ?

TheNephilimCrow

Destyran wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

Who gonna heal the group during the dungeon if we don't have a templar?

Magik nb or sorc with resto.

Um... Templar is a healer class...? Are healers REALLY suppose to do allot of damage?

Kaliki

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Jesus beam 'wasnt almost a one shot'. It was doing significant damage as an execute outside of execute range, started executing at 50%, went through roll dodge, and didnt abide by LoS as all skills do. This skill actually had a lot of issues with it. I dont think you have a good grasp on balance to really weigh these things out - sorry.

If 5k dps is significant dmg in non-execute range it was not that far off from other execute skills that can be weaved.

The problem is that instead of just fixing LOS and dodgeability they also reduced the overall dmg by at least 40 % if i remember correctly.

Add to that the bug preventing it from doing execute dmg, the loss of movement, susceptibility to interrups, inability to weave it...

The skill was so strong that other classes needed to adapt their gameplay to it, but instead of fixing its bugs it was flatout nerfed to the ground to calm down the whining.

Is there any other skill left for templars that requires opponents to slot skills just to be able to counter it? I can't think of any.
Other classes can just move out of our jabs, untis or bash us (radiant destruction, healing ulti, ritual...) or break free (eclipse).

But shield stacking, streak, cloak, dk reflect etc. require me to fill my bars with counters instead of dmg skills.
I believe this is a fundamental flaw in the templar's design.

Destyran

TheNephilimCrow wrote: »

Destyran wrote: »

ajwest927 wrote: »

Who gonna heal the group during the dungeon if we don't have a templar?

Magik nb or sorc with resto.

Um... Templar is a healer class...? Are healers REALLY suppose to do allot of damage?

It was marketed as do what you want if a sorc can tank and dps and a nightblade and dk why hant a tenplar??

Whitebrad25

@Destyran those stats are buffed as my character can be but the timers are long and easily maintained. It is legit in the PVP zone (adds %5 spell damage and some crit).

I mainly just do the dailys and play PVP so it is a relevant number (I.e. Not just for pic sake, but that's where I play and how I run my character. Viable for both DPS and Healing constantly).


Not glitched or photoshopped.

Whitebrad25

@TheNephilimCrow a Templar healer should have decent DPS and great sustain so they can flex in the role of damage dealer depending on group composition.

Destyran

Whitebrad25 wrote: »

@Destyran those stats are buffed as my character can be but the timers are long and easily maintained. It is legit in the PVP zone (adds %5 spell damage and some crit).

I mainly just do the dailys and play PVP so it is a relevant number (I.e. Not just for pic sake, but that's where I play and how I run my character. Viable for both DPS and Healing constantly).


Not glitched or photoshopped.

Wanna give me a walkthrough on how buffed and gear / food / passive buffs?

Destyran

@Whitebrad25 how do you reach that magic with that stat distribution?

Whitebrad25

I'm currently trying to keep most of my build under wraps as revealing it produced a few copy cat builds. With the population going the way that it is, there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep something special somewhat reserved.

Green food, and gear proc'd.


All spell damage jewelry.

Whitebrad25

As far as passive buffs go, all of them. All light armor.

Destyran

Whitebrad25 wrote: »

I'm currently trying to keep most of my build under wraps as revealing it produced a few copy cat builds. With the population going the way that it is, there is nothing wrong with wanting to keep something special somewhat reserved.

Green food, and gear proc'd.


All spell damage jewelry.

No worries mate i can see how you get everything except the stat distribution throws me wayyyyy off.

Destyran

@Whitebrad25 makes sense with green food multiplicatively now i think about it.

TheNephilimCrow

Whitebrad25 wrote: »

@TheNephilimCrow a Templar healer should have decent DPS and great sustain so they can flex in the role of damage dealer depending on group composition.

@Whitebrad25 This is another Restoration Staff vs Destruction Staff type of conversation. It has to be either one way or the other. Not both. Giving a class both healing and DPS would make them basically unstoppable. I don't know about you, but I don't want a God class.