Campaign Performance

Zaldan

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

For Cyrodiil the answer is simply that it's one zone and if anything floods the server with requests from that zone, regardless of where it occurred in the zone, will effect the entire zone. There may have been a battle at Alessia bridge, but it could effect what happens at Fort Warden.

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Campaigns consist of Cyrodiil, IC, the Sewers, Cathedral, and all 18 delves when considering population of a Campaign. Imperial Prison and WGT are not included in the cap as they are separate PVE instances.

The Campaign zones don't get separated into their own population capped areas because of queue'ing just like you're saying. Once you're in your Campaign, you're in, as opposed to having to Queue for each individual thing attached to Cyrodiil.

but surely sharing population only makes sense in a gated campaign otherwise nothing you do in cyrodiil make the slightest difference to IC but does reduce the amount of players an alliance can have fighting for the campaign in cyrodiil. Either separate the populations or gate all campaigns.

ps. when are you going to fix instant death fall damage in cyrodiil caused by abilities with knockback despite falling less than a few feet?

Dissentinel

Enodoc wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler We know the pop caps for Cyrodiil have been adjusted up and down as you've implemented different measures to alleviate lag; is the value on this article of 1800 players per campaign, whch would be 600 per alliance, still accurate?

Definitely not accurate. When I first started playing on Azura's Star a few days after the campaign started recently, I was ranked lower than 600. 658 or something like that.

Enodoc

Dissentinel wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler We know the pop caps for Cyrodiil have been adjusted up and down as you've implemented different measures to alleviate lag; is the value on this article of 1800 players per campaign, whch would be 600 per alliance, still accurate?

Definitely not accurate. When I first started playing on Azura's Star a few days after the campaign started recently, I was ranked lower than 600. 658 or something like that.

@Dissentinel The pop cap only limits number of people in Cyrodiil at one time, not the total number of players that can be assigned to a campaign (which is what you see on the leaderboards).

Dissentinel

Enodoc wrote: »

Dissentinel wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler We know the pop caps for Cyrodiil have been adjusted up and down as you've implemented different measures to alleviate lag; is the value on this article of 1800 players per campaign, whch would be 600 per alliance, still accurate?

Definitely not accurate. When I first started playing on Azura's Star a few days after the campaign started recently, I was ranked lower than 600. 658 or something like that.

@Dissentinel The pop cap only limits number of people in Cyrodiil at one time, not the total number of players that can be assigned to a campaign (which is what you see on the leaderboards).

Ah, okay. I wasn't sure which you were talking about.

Psilent

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

We have some adjustments coming to the ability system in terms of how it handles requirements, cost evaluations, and some further optimizations on the server with handling temporary storage of these messages. These changes however are far reaching into the combat system at it's roots, and is taking a bit longer to do as it takes a combination of server work and data changes.

I was told last night about a system that will queue your AoE abilities if to many are spammed in a short amount of time by a group.

The example they gave was Steel Tornado: Two groups of 24 smash into each other spamming Steel Tornado at around the 20th or so Steel Tornado the server would stop calculating damage on it and queue it; making it effectively useless for an AoE because it would only cast 1 Steel Tornado per person when it reached them in the queue, no matter if the person spammed it 100 times before it reached them. However, if said person used Impluse for example, their AoE would go off all the time without a problem, due to it being one of a few impulses being used.

In a nutshell, it would force group players to have to use all forms of AoE to do damage instead of just one ability. If they all use one ability they run the risk of doing hardly any AoE damage to players.

Is this what you mean by "storage of messages"?

MountainHound

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Campaigns consist of Cyrodiil, IC, the Sewers, Cathedral, and all 18 delves when considering population of a Campaign. Imperial Prison and WGT are not included in the cap as they are separate PVE instances.

The Campaign zones don't get separated into their own population capped areas because of queue'ing just like you're saying. Once you're in your Campaign, you're in, as opposed to having to Queue for each individual thing attached to Cyrodiil.

This is wrong on so many levels and is what mkes PVP [snip].

The Cyrodiil Population + IC + the sewer's population should be completely separate. Factions use to get low population bonuses when they were too far behind but this thought process means 2 bars can now be in the sewer which contributes to the manipulation and pointlessness of the score / people defending the keep.

I would be more angry but the rewards in PVP are so dog [snip] the score boards mean nothing.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Septimus_Magna

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Campaigns consist of Cyrodiil, IC, the Sewers, Cathedral, and all 18 delves when considering population of a Campaign. Imperial Prison and WGT are not included in the cap as they are separate PVE instances.

The Campaign zones don't get separated into their own population capped areas because of queue'ing just like you're saying. Once you're in your Campaign, you're in, as opposed to having to Queue for each individual thing attached to Cyrodiil.

The problem is that there's nothing that ties Cyrodiil and IC together besides the location of IC.

It would be logical to combine the populations if there was an Alliance benefit for holding IC district or something along those lines.

At this point, players that go into IC are basically punishing their alliance because they raise the population but dont do anything in Cyrodiil, same goes for cave delvers to a certain extend but thats a smaller problem.

If a campaign is pop-locked and one 24-man raid is running around in the IC sewers that alliance has a disadvantage the size of one 24-man raid.

IC is usually pretty quiet (speaking from an EU standpoint) so it would also be an improvement to IC if those players were merged into the same campaign.

Sallington

Campaign Performance Update - January, 14 2015
Performance: Still awful

xXNesTXx

The first improve is solve the lag problems....without that, all incoming improvements are useless

But anyways....the first improve, is decrease or directly remove the low population bonuses, are totally unfair right now

Necronhex

Until I see results these are just words

themdogesbite

At this point i will even settle for a bareable state of performance, just make it better then now.. please?

zyk

@ZOS_BrianWheeler

If you can recognize BWB performs better than AS because players are less capable of lagging the server, why do you not adjust VR Alliance War gameplay so we are less able to lag the server on VR campaigns?

The performance issues in Cyrodiil can be viewed both as a server issue and a gameplay design issue. You can solve it by fixing either. Because improving server performance is very technically challenging, PLEASE consider adjusting VR gameplay until the server can handle the game you have designed.

IMO, the main issue with Alliance War performance is the gameplay design. I believe improved server performance has and will continue to result in larger zergs.

Something needs to be done now. AS is pure garbage every night.

ZOS_BrianWheeler

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Xsorus

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Have you found in what's causing the fps issue as well?

Niaver

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Have you found in what's causing the fps issue as well?

It seems that they talk only about ping problem forgetting about fps problem.

Docmandu

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Would it be possible to do something like remove all of the resource nodes in Cyrodiil and then specifically eliminate some of the anti-botting logic that was added which pushed a lot of the client-side computations back to the server

^^^ THIS ^^^
seriously tho... ^^^ THIS SO HARD ^^^

People! You need to understand!
This right here is THE CENTRAL ISSUE to this game's performace. It cannot be overstated how important this is.

The netcode issues introduced in patch 1.2.3 vastly supercedes all problems with AOE caps, Champion Point system imbalance, lack of softcaps, etc.

June 26th, 2014
A day that will live in infamy...
The day the Lag Bombs fell...

Niaver wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Have you found in what's causing the fps issue as well?

It seems that they talk only about ping problem forgetting about fps problem.

FPS = game client issue

Most of this is about server lag, ie. optimizing the server so it can keep up with what is happening in Cyrodiil at any given time.

Zyle

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Is this in relation to champion point bonus/passive calculations being done? Just curious, if so that could also be a reason why BWB is less lag intensive.

CtrlAltDlt

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Thanks for your hard work on the performance issues in Cyradil Brian. When is the next incremental patch?

Starshadw

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

I hate to have to say this, but I'm not sure you have until TG to get this fixed. The aggravation about the shoddy performance is growing amongst the PvP population. I've always enjoyed PvP, but these days I find I can only bear an hour or so before I simply log off in disgust. I suspect I'm not the only one. The zerging behavior (which is a big part of the lag issue) is destroying PvP.

Another vital part of solving the troubles in PvP is fixing the two base mechanics that are not working properly right now:

1. CC immunity
2. Break-free

Neither of these two are functioning the way they should.

Repeatedly, players find themselves locked and unable to do anything (be that from stuns, knockdowns, or roots). Repeatedly, they find themselves Wrecking Blow spammed or Ambush spammed or [insert another irritating skill] spammed to death while they can do nothing except watch. Two particularly irritating combinations right now are Crit Rush + Wrecking Blow, and Wrecking Blow combined with Biting Jabs.

You have got to get your CC immunity working, since you refuse to add in skill cooldowns. In addition, I would suggest upping the timer on cc immunity to at least 10-15 seconds.

Break-free functionality is 50-50 at best these days. You can have full Stamina, yet the mechanic does not work. This may be because the game simply doesn't know how to handle multiple such skills hitting the character at once (which is usually what you have in a PvP situation - you aren't generally getting hit with one such skill, it's multiples). This may again be yet more proof of the weakness of the CC immunity function. Whatever it is, the break-free skill must be fixed so that it works, and so that it removes ALL such effects from the player upon use.

bchulettub17_ESO wrote: »

Is this in relation to champion point bonus/passive calculations being done? Just curious, if so that could also be a reason why BWB is less lag intensive.

Unfortunately, the lag has now infected BWB. For the last few weeks, prime-time on BWB is seeing the same sort of lag one used to only find on the vet campaigns.

kadar

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

Thanks for working towards a lag-free Cyrodiil @ZOS_BrianWheeler !
We all appreciate it and look forward to total victory!
Until that day I will be playing mostly on Haderus at odd hours to avoid as many people (lag) as possible... I'll miss you 'Zuras.

Lava_Croft

My personal update on performance: Thanks for forcing me to roll an alt.

Forztr

Load screens are killing PVP for me. I can ride between keeps quicker than I can port.

Docmandu

Forztr wrote: »

Load screens are killing PVP for me. I can ride between keeps quicker than I can port.

Lucky ***!!! You can ride your horse!!

Signed,
Templar stuck "in-combat"

Starshadw

Docmandu wrote: »

Forztr wrote: »

Load screens are killing PVP for me. I can ride between keeps quicker than I can port.

Lucky ***!!! You can ride your horse!!

Signed,
Templar stuck "in-combat"

Solidarity *holds fist up*

Nutshotz

i will say my 2 cents, I am disgusted in the way the game is turning out and the so called band aid fixes Wrobel, and wheeler implement. ( facepalm ) on another note you are more than likely gonna lose about 60-70% of you games population in the next 6 months if you don't get your game together, oh wait eso already lost majority of its players. hello CU

aLi3nZ

The servers clearly cannot handle the load when they are at maximum player capacity and the player limit should be reduced while troubleshooting and fixes are done. I never TRY play when the server is even close to full anymore. Still the performance is terrible when compared to playing in IC.

Check these images, FPS and PING counter in bottom left, to me its not that surprising the lag is so bad with the crazy amount of stuff going on that needs to be processed. As mentioned, this is when server is not at the population limit so its still a lot better than when the server is full. I am just a bit confused how apparently it used to be fine prior to a lighting patch and they wont roll back.

MountainHound

It is a shame that one day the lag will "fix" its self due to no-one logging in anymore. I find myself logging off as soon as the lag hits which is happening more frequent and soon it will get to a point whereby I just stop logging in as I know it will be cr@p.

ZOS, you guys must be aware of other games coming out and I know the community is leaning to other games whilst the servers have problems which will shelf this game real quickly.

You guys have an addictive PVP game which is like a drug with many addicted to it. Listen to your customers!

Psilent

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler did today's incremental patch have the fixes mentioned above?

Weberda

Psilent wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

The next incremental patch will have some changes to underlying combat resolutions to speed up calculations on the server, but also some changes to how abilities check their cost per cast. We found many abilities were evaluating their costs when they didn't need to, so we're fixing that.

There are some changes to how abilities are structured coming in the Thieves Guild patch itself. These changes don't effect the ability functionality on the player or their effects against other players, but how the server handles the process of the abilities themselves.

@ZOS_BrianWheeler did today's incremental patch have the fixes mentioned above?

Yep. All fish have been removed from Cyrodiil. Good luck getting that Master Angler achievement now.

Lava_Croft

POOP versus Players.