Reaction to the return of forward camps?

Alucardo

frozywozy wrote: »

Typical mindset of an AP farmer who play to kill and who doesn't care for objectives. Thanks for being honest, I guess! You must be one of those who sit in stealth with 20 others while one guy is sieging the wall for 30mins.

Actually I'm one of the guys in the front line. Stealth play bores me to tears and I have no idea how people manage it. And no, I'm not an AP farmer. I usually run solo or in very small groups and just enjoy PVP. Thanks for assuming the worst though. Appreciated!

dodgehopper_ESO

I like not having forward camps, it makes travel more meaningful. It makes being sneaky more meaningful. I say this as someone who has gone on sneaky missions with a Templar from bloodmayne all the way to dragonclaw before. It is fun sneaking from keep to keep, weakening walls where they are least expected, prepping everything so you can have multiple invasion forces flag multiple keeps simultaneously. Forward camps have a way of killing a lot of strategy and just making everything a big zerg fest. I was sad when they were removed, but it didn't take me long to be happy that they were gone.

ajwest927

Never experienced forward camps since I'm a console playet, so I'm looking forward to try it out

Anazasi

Jules wrote: »

Agree with Hek and Mano. With these two things working in tandem. If the range is that small (too small), why bother limiting the amount to 10?

The opportunity for troll camping is unreal. As Mano mentioned in the podcast, what's to stop someone from dropping 10 camps in the middle of nowhere on EP. And if no one dies there and they don't degrade over time, that faction is locked out for camps if they lay all 10.

Also on the subject of camps, I think the range makes it way too hard to use them strategically. If the camps are right on top of you, the meat grinder smashing into each other will never stop. Lay burn lay burn lay burn. I doubt with that range 20 people will rarely ever be able to get thru them. I'd much rather see a larger range with same mechanics, but see groups able to hit from different side or use different strats upon re-engage.

The radius of these new improved camps according to wheeler in the last ESo Live video is about the size of the alessia footprint. That's pretty small if you ask me. But what really bits is you have to be in the camp zone to use it. Now are you really going to drop a camp point blank and actually be able to cover your group? Seriously this is a bone being tossed to the pvp community in hopes they will shut up and play nice. save your AP 20k a pop would be better spent on 12 fire trebs.

Draxys

I always thought I'd be pumped to see camps return, but now I just don't care. Like with everything else in this game. Templar Kag's res is much better anyway.

Cinbri

Draxys wrote: »

I always thought I'd be pumped to see camps return, but now I just don't care. Like with everything else in this game. Templar Kag's res is much better anyway.

Dont see usefullness of Kagrenac when you fight 4vs12. If teammates are dead it either means that templar is dead or too much incoming damage. It any of those situations Kagrenac won't help nad only decreasing wearer sustain.

Draxys

Cinbri wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

I always thought I'd be pumped to see camps return, but now I just don't care. Like with everything else in this game. Templar Kag's res is much better anyway.

Dont see usefullness of Kagrenac when you fight 4vs12. If teammates are dead it either means that templar is dead or too much incoming damage. It any of those situations Kagrenac won't help nad only decreasing wearer sustain.

That's actually where it's most useful. I'm not even a Templar and the Kag's bonus plus support passives allowed me to battle rez 3 ppl in a row when outnumbered about 3/4 to 1.

Cinbri

Draxys wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Draxys wrote: »

I always thought I'd be pumped to see camps return, but now I just don't care. Like with everything else in this game. Templar Kag's res is much better anyway.

Dont see usefullness of Kagrenac when you fight 4vs12. If teammates are dead it either means that templar is dead or too much incoming damage. It any of those situations Kagrenac won't help nad only decreasing wearer sustain.

That's actually where it's most useful. I'm not even a Templar and the Kag's bonus plus support passives allowed me to battle rez 3 ppl in a row when outnumbered about 3/4 to 1.

Well, fighting the pugs is different than fight vs people with brains. If they allowed even non-templar to res.. they are confirmed pugs. I saying about fights where each member of group is constantly pressured by 2-4 enemies.

Manoekin

Anazasi wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Agree with Hek and Mano. With these two things working in tandem. If the range is that small (too small), why bother limiting the amount to 10?

The opportunity for troll camping is unreal. As Mano mentioned in the podcast, what's to stop someone from dropping 10 camps in the middle of nowhere on EP. And if no one dies there and they don't degrade over time, that faction is locked out for camps if they lay all 10.

Also on the subject of camps, I think the range makes it way too hard to use them strategically. If the camps are right on top of you, the meat grinder smashing into each other will never stop. Lay burn lay burn lay burn. I doubt with that range 20 people will rarely ever be able to get thru them. I'd much rather see a larger range with same mechanics, but see groups able to hit from different side or use different strats upon re-engage.

The radius of these new improved camps according to wheeler in the last ESo Live video is about the size of the alessia footprint. That's pretty small if you ask me. But what really bits is you have to be in the camp zone to use it. Now are you really going to drop a camp point blank and actually be able to cover your group? Seriously this is a bone being tossed to the pvp community in hopes they will shut up and play nice. save your AP 20k a pop would be better spent on 12 fire trebs.

For those that haven't experienced camps: you can't place them near enemy held objectives. The closest you can place them to an enemy keep is a friendly controlled resource, or somewhere similarly far away that is also far enough away from the resources. If the radius is only the size of the keep, your camp will not reach inside of the keep. It's more incentive to just play defense, and it's going to be nice for defense. I don't see it encouraging offensive play and spreading out at all, though.

Baconlad

Look at Planetside two for my opinions on forward camps...they would make the fights last a LONG time, which is good...also if they increased the keep wall hit points to ten fold would be pretty cool, also not allow repairing for at least one minute to wall taking damage. Forward camps would allow a continuous flow of enemies. U would have to push outside of the keep to destroy the tent (which destroying siege should have a ten-twenty cast time). Also to stop siege from unjustly being dropped in the middle of a field between keeps, make it so they have a cast time of ten-twenty seconds.

Meh...i just think these fights should be more realistic in scale, don't see a problem with hour long battles for a keep once again, go play planetside 2...amazing game, only reason I'm not there now is I like the elder scroll theme better than FPS/ future halo type game

Draxys

Baconlad wrote: »

Look at Planetside two for my opinions on forward camps...they would make the fights last a LONG time, which is good...also if they increased the keep wall hit points to ten fold would be pretty cool, also not allow repairing for at least one minute to wall taking damage. Forward camps would allow a continuous flow of enemies. U would have to push outside of the keep to destroy the tent (which destroying siege should have a ten-twenty cast time). Also to stop siege from unjustly being dropped in the middle of a field between keeps, make it so they have a cast time of ten-twenty seconds.

Meh...i just think these fights should be more realistic in scale, don't see a problem with hour long battles for a keep once again, go play planetside 2...amazing game, only reason I'm not there now is I like the elder scroll theme better than FPS/ future halo type game

I do want longer battles again, since those disappeared with camps. But I also don't want events like the tickening again where people just desperately wanted the fight to end because they'd been there for 8 hours lol

defilade__ESO

Poxheart wrote: »

The game's population has taken such a hit that this won't change anything.

Agreed.

They have already made PvP so that the only decent way to get AP is killing other players, you don't get crap for AP by taking a keep or a resource or capturing a scroll. The only reason anyone takes keeps at all is so the same people can be crowned emperor, over, and over, and over again, and get the emp buff.

When they make the rewards for PvP campaigns something more then just zerg-balling to roll over other players for AP, then there might people coming back. How do these camps motivate players to take a keep, resource or scroll? They don't, because the best AP is still just killing players.

Cyrodiil is just a giant, mindless gladiator arena. The keeps are just a convenient way to get around, and if you capture enough keeps, some guy without a job who plays endlessly can get emperor again.

Sausage

Its indifferent for me. I find it hard to get myself motivated to play Cyrodil after rank 28, especially Ive like 8mill AP. I keep hoping Cyrodil overhaul, better landscape, different Castles for each alliance, 4 castle upgrade for each Castle/Keep, more siege weapons like Siege Towers, Ladders and Mammoth Gate Destroyers.

Also I hope somekind of Mercenary system to fix Campaign Population, if one needs money he can become Mercenary, and hes sent to low pop alliance. Also I think one could become Faction Loyalist.

Also I think short-range melee weapons (fist) long range melee weapons (long spear) and medium range ranged weapons (crossbow) could add nice twist to the game. Why not some Tower Shields too, man-sized shields what gives good protection against ranged attacks.

Lord-Stien

Did they even touch on the topic of FC trolling ?

There for a while they were giving 48 hour bann's on people for FC trolling ..

Manoekin

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Did they even touch on the topic of FC trolling ?

There for a while they were giving 48 hour bann's on people for FC trolling ..

No, they made it easier to troll is all.

Joy_Division

tinythinker wrote: »

Current plan:

1. Limit of 20 rezzes per camp
2. Cost of 20K AP per camp
3. Radius is only the size of a keep
4. Can only rez from inside the radius
5. A 2 minute cool-down before using one again
6. Still a limit of 10 active camps per Alliance
7. Nothing about marking them as "group locked"

Are you glad forward camps are coming back?

Do the new values sound good to you?

I thought the old map radius would have been good for a "can only rez inside this circle" change. Twenty rezzes per camp seems low, but it's hard to say how it will work without seeing it in action.

1. 20 rezzes is fine. That't the way it was and wasn't the problem.
2. It's fine. Can't be too expensive bc/ as it is 20 PuGs are going to waste your AP using a tent.
3. This is too small because attackers cannot place keeps where they want because of the 'too close to an enemy keep' restriction.
4. How it should have always been.
5. I am guessing this means for the person rezzing at one as opposed to placing one down. If the former, I'm fine with that.
6. Pointless restriction with the rez radius mechanic. Encourages trolling.
7. With the rez radius restriction, random PuGs from Brindle stealing your group's tent should be less of an issue. Wouldn't mind a"group lock" option, but it would have to be an option and I would prefer them to spend manpower resources on more pressing issues.

I do miss the battlefield options that camps presented and the best memories of my PvP experiences have been fights in which camps played an integral role so I am glad to see them back.

BoloBoffin

I would like to see these additional changes to forward camps.

1. Any number of players can rez as long as the camp is up.
2. Any one rez costs 5% of the camp's health.
3. Any siege repair kit repairs 2% of the camp's health.
4. Camps cost 50K AP.

If a group is willing to spend the AP to buy and repair the camp and also sacrifice players who could be doing other things to keep the camp up, then they should be able to keep the camp up.

Lord-Stien

Manoekin wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Did they even touch on the topic of FC trolling ?

There for a while they were giving 48 hour bann's on people for FC trolling ..

No, they made it easier to troll is all.

Well that suck...

SO shall we all keep a Google Doc, List of names that do it ?

Name and shame em i say ... all over Reddit and ESO Facebook lol .

Manoekin

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Did they even touch on the topic of FC trolling ?

There for a while they were giving 48 hour bann's on people for FC trolling ..

No, they made it easier to troll is all.

Well that suck...

SO shall we all keep a Google Doc, List of names that do it ?

Name and shame em i say ... all over Reddit and ESO Facebook lol .

Well, since you can't respawn at a troll camp anymore since you're not going to be dying within the radius, it will be impossible to tell who is doing it. By the time anyone rides out to the camp it will be abandoned. Maybe you catch someone repairing it, but they would have to be really dumb to get caught doing that.

Lord-Stien

Manoekin wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Lord-Stien wrote: »

Did they even touch on the topic of FC trolling ?

There for a while they were giving 48 hour bann's on people for FC trolling ..

No, they made it easier to troll is all.

Well that suck...

SO shall we all keep a Google Doc, List of names that do it ?

Name and shame em i say ... all over Reddit and ESO Facebook lol .

Well, since you can't respawn at a troll camp anymore since you're not going to be dying within the radius, it will be impossible to tell who is doing it. By the time anyone rides out to the camp it will be abandoned. Maybe you catch someone repairing it, but they would have to be really dumb to get caught doing that.

True But with enough Troll camps around a factions inner keeps ( And since the radius will be smaller) it will be possible to
put 10 FC's at there inner keeps..

Thus killing if not all but most resupply line's to the fight. cept for ressing at keeps and such ..

I know you remember being trolled by FC troll's..

Forestd16b14_ESO

ehh.... Mix emotions.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

4. Can only rez from inside the radius

this is how they should have been all along

frozywozy

Dreyloch wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

With PVE gear coming to PVP for AP, the ability to res fallen comrades and level 60 riding training, I can't imagine TOO many people would bother buying them for 20k a pop anyway.
Don't think it's going to make much of a difference tbh. I'm probably not going to bother. Would rather save my AP for gear and akaviri motifs.

Typical mindset of an AP farmer who play to kill and who doesn't care for objectives. Thanks for being honest, I guess! You must be one of those who sit in stealth with 20 others while one guy is sieging the wall for 30mins.

Yes of course! Because all the AP farmers are union. One guy works, 20 others watch...

More seriously though, I miss AP farming. Had a ton of fun setting up and watching the AP roll in with my guild. If that concerns you, then just don't bother going there and getting killed. Leave the resource be, and 1 of 2 things will happen. The farmers will get bored or eventually try to start sieging the associated keep. All you gotta do is sit inside and wait for them to come in. Your choice!

If only it was that simple. But we all know that casual players will push and will get farmed. So in the end, the only way to make it stop is to handle it yourself and clear the AP farmers so the casuals can finally move away and start being productive on the front line.

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I like not having forward camps, it makes travel more meaningful. It makes being sneaky more meaningful. I say this as someone who has gone on sneaky missions with a Templar from bloodmayne all the way to dragonclaw before. It is fun sneaking from keep to keep, weakening walls where they are least expected, prepping everything so you can have multiple invasion forces flag multiple keeps simultaneously. Forward camps have a way of killing a lot of strategy and just making everything a big zerg fest. I was sad when they were removed, but it didn't take me long to be happy that they were gone.

Traveling will still be meaningful since you won't be able to spawn on the FC if you are outside of the range. People will just be more motivated to ride deep in enemy territory if they actually can relay on a second chance after a first wipe.

I'm concerned about the range like plenty of people in here. If the range is too small, it will only benefits defenders. We need to make it large enough so attackers dying inside a keep remain in the range of their FC outside of the keep.