Templar issues thread

AfkNinja

@Soris

Unlimited sustain due to no soft caps is something I have been against since it was implemented. Either bring back soft caps or separate damage from stamina/magicka pools imo. Stamina/Magicka should be used for your casting pool only, would make Health a more viable stat again. You'd need to change the scaling with wep/spell dmg tho so the current dmg numbers wouldn't change drastically.

maxjapank

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I think a lot of templars are a bit too biased to have a civil and reasonable discussion on some of the skills. It is unfortunate.

It's one of those things where you think you know what you're talking about but you don't. Because you don't play a Templar or you haven't played a Templar as extensively as we have. You talk about skill and all that and think that we or groups rely on Breath of Life heals alone. But we don't. As everyone has said here, it is a very Magicka costly spell. Yes, it's helpful in burst situations. But you put out enough damage, and our Magicka gets drained very quickly.

And by the way, Healers get off on saving the day. We like to bring our teammate back from the brink of death. Just like when you burst down a player and get your little rush, we get ours by keeping you from doing it. I'm sure you can sorta understand that. But as you don't main a healer... So coming in here and complaining about heals as a dps'r is bit biased in my opinion.

zornyan

@AfkNinja @FENGRUSH just had a couple day ban for getting another warning, due to telling some moron that he was a moron for asking for constant nerfs. Anyway let me start off with some basic points.

I have played near enough just my templar since console release in june, I have made alts but templars were what I considered to be paladins and what I want to signify my in game persona as it were.

I've also transfered as it were to pc a while ago, and once again started off with a templar, I have pvp'd ALOT on console and now more on pc (DC for life !) As it's what I enjoy in mmo games, I've also played as a healer and dps in most content.

First off I mean this with no disrespect, but I don't rate you, or anyone else as a more opinion worthy person, everyone is entitled to one, and we all differ, I don't care for streamers or youtubers etc , again not a personal thing against you, more of a thing in general, maybe I'm too old and missed the whole streamer thing kicking off.

Now I don't know you, have never watch one of your videos, but I can say the few posts of yours I have seen make you seem extremely egotistical and think your opinion above others, this is purely from what I've seen of your posts, maybe you aren't maybe you are, I'm not juding just saying how it's coming across.

Now the issue at hand, we don't have a balanced game at hand, we really dont, healing is inferior to dps atm in pvp, let me give you an example.

Player A, is a healer templar

Player B is a burst/dps whatever stam class

Now this is what happens currently, for arguments sake remove everything from the equation .

Player A and B stand opposite each other, play B sits there and just presses wrecking blow and nothing else, player A just stands there and presses BoL.

What's going to happen? Eventually player A will run out of magicka (as BoL is far more expensive to cast than wrecking blow) or will run out of stam to break free of CC.

In an ideal world, a balanced world, healing should be a good a defence as wrecking blow is an offence.

Currently burst damage IS insanely high, I've been insta gibbed now more than in 1.6, my latest ones were

(With 25k HP and 30k spell resist + CP into resistances, all these deaths were in under two seconds )

Lotus fan
Proxy det
Lotus fan
Soul harvest

Dead

Snipe
Heavy attack
Ambush
Dead

Wrecking blow
Dragon leap
Dead

Overload
Overload
Dead

Literially in most of these scenarios my templar, that by all means has a more than reasonable amount of health, in gold gear, nearly at capped resistances, is dead before I can even CC break, or even press BoL.

That is a big problem in itself, insta kill pvp is not fun, but it is the meta, you are far better going full dps than full defence / heal atm, as defence is dead, except for sorc shields aa it's one if the few proactive defence in the game.

You may have an issue with templars healing to full health from 10%, but so can any class, I've fought stam builds that popped rally+vigor at the right time and have gone from 10-90% health in just a couple of seconds.

Then healing ward, pop it at low health and get a huge shield and a huge heal, like really? It's actually more useful 1v1 (why I use it in vetmsa) as it's more effective than BoL and it's proactive.

Do you know why many people are playing templars? Because of streamers, because people like sypher made videos going "omghz this class is so good everyone should try it" even though they said that after we had been nerfed EVEN MORE.

So yeah there's a fair few arm, but they die, alot, other classes are so superior it's a complete joke, I made a magicka nb recently, as it was one of only 2 builds left to try for me, it is silly easy mode, Msa is even easier than before, pvp is so much easier, I do more damage, heal for just as much, more mobility and survivability , more regens and base stats etc.

Templars ONLY non bugged, and good skill is BoL, other classes are actually doing just as good a job if not better than us at being dedicated healers now days.

I was with a mag nb the other day, his funnel health was healing me and him for 6k per tick, just funnel that's IN cyro, my purifying ritual + Rapid regen does half that.

Did a vet pledge the other day with a sap tank nb too, I actually barely used BoL at all, his sap heals (which do more damage than my skills) were keeping everyone healed.

If we get a BoL nerf then I honestly think zos should delete the class.

tplink3r1

I understand how it is difficult to balance a game, but i can't see an excuse for toppling charge be left bugged how it is until the next major update. I CAN'T EVEN CAST IT NOW! It is worse than it was 6 months ago.
Am i supposed to use a stamina gap closer as a magicka templar?
This is the bug i am talking about
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXZg1wuszTc
Edit: It happens even when the target is like 20 meters away from me.

FENGRUSH

zornyan wrote: »

@AfkNinja @FENGRUSH just had a couple day ban for getting another warning, due to telling some moron that he was a moron for asking for constant nerfs. Anyway let me start off with some basic points.

I have played near enough just my templar since console release in june, I have made alts but templars were what I considered to be paladins and what I want to signify my in game persona as it were.

I've also transfered as it were to pc a while ago, and once again started off with a templar, I have pvp'd ALOT on console and now more on pc (DC for life !) As it's what I enjoy in mmo games, I've also played as a healer and dps in most content.

First off I mean this with no disrespect, but I don't rate you, or anyone else as a more opinion worthy person, everyone is entitled to one, and we all differ, I don't care for streamers or youtubers etc , again not a personal thing against you, more of a thing in general, maybe I'm too old and missed the whole streamer thing kicking off.

Now I don't know you, have never watch one of your videos, but I can say the few posts of yours I have seen make you seem extremely egotistical and think your opinion above others, this is purely from what I've seen of your posts, maybe you aren't maybe you are, I'm not juding just saying how it's coming across.

Now the issue at hand, we don't have a balanced game at hand, we really dont, healing is inferior to dps atm in pvp, let me give you an example.

Player A, is a healer templar

Player B is a burst/dps whatever stam class

Now this is what happens currently, for arguments sake remove everything from the equation .

Player A and B stand opposite each other, play B sits there and just presses wrecking blow and nothing else, player A just stands there and presses BoL.

What's going to happen? Eventually player A will run out of magicka (as BoL is far more expensive to cast than wrecking blow) or will run out of stam to break free of CC.

In an ideal world, a balanced world, healing should be a good a defence as wrecking blow is an offence.

Currently burst damage IS insanely high, I've been insta gibbed now more than in 1.6, my latest ones were

(With 25k HP and 30k spell resist + CP into resistances, all these deaths were in under two seconds )

Lotus fan
Proxy det
Lotus fan
Soul harvest

Dead

Snipe
Heavy attack
Ambush
Dead

Wrecking blow
Dragon leap
Dead

Overload
Overload
Dead

Literially in most of these scenarios my templar, that by all means has a more than reasonable amount of health, in gold gear, nearly at capped resistances, is dead before I can even CC break, or even press BoL.

That is a big problem in itself, insta kill pvp is not fun, but it is the meta, you are far better going full dps than full defence / heal atm, as defence is dead, except for sorc shields aa it's one if the few proactive defence in the game.

You may have an issue with templars healing to full health from 10%, but so can any class, I've fought stam builds that popped rally+vigor at the right time and have gone from 10-90% health in just a couple of seconds.

Then healing ward, pop it at low health and get a huge shield and a huge heal, like really? It's actually more useful 1v1 (why I use it in vetmsa) as it's more effective than BoL and it's proactive.

Do you know why many people are playing templars? Because of streamers, because people like sypher made videos going "omghz this class is so good everyone should try it" even though they said that after we had been nerfed EVEN MORE.

So yeah there's a fair few arm, but they die, alot, other classes are so superior it's a complete joke, I made a magicka nb recently, as it was one of only 2 builds left to try for me, it is silly easy mode, Msa is even easier than before, pvp is so much easier, I do more damage, heal for just as much, more mobility and survivability , more regens and base stats etc.

Templars ONLY non bugged, and good skill is BoL, other classes are actually doing just as good a job if not better than us at being dedicated healers now days.

I was with a mag nb the other day, his funnel health was healing me and him for 6k per tick, just funnel that's IN cyro, my purifying ritual + Rapid regen does half that.

Did a vet pledge the other day with a sap tank nb too, I actually barely used BoL at all, his sap heals (which do more damage than my skills) were keeping everyone healed.

If we get a BoL nerf then I honestly think zos should delete the class.

Another templar dying to overload attacks.. oh no

zornyan

FENGRUSH wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

@AfkNinja @FENGRUSH just had a couple day ban for getting another warning, due to telling some moron that he was a moron for asking for constant nerfs. Anyway let me start off with some basic points.

I have played near enough just my templar since console release in june, I have made alts but templars were what I considered to be paladins and what I want to signify my in game persona as it were.

I've also transfered as it were to pc a while ago, and once again started off with a templar, I have pvp'd ALOT on console and now more on pc (DC for life !) As it's what I enjoy in mmo games, I've also played as a healer and dps in most content.

First off I mean this with no disrespect, but I don't rate you, or anyone else as a more opinion worthy person, everyone is entitled to one, and we all differ, I don't care for streamers or youtubers etc , again not a personal thing against you, more of a thing in general, maybe I'm too old and missed the whole streamer thing kicking off.

Now I don't know you, have never watch one of your videos, but I can say the few posts of yours I have seen make you seem extremely egotistical and think your opinion above others, this is purely from what I've seen of your posts, maybe you aren't maybe you are, I'm not juding just saying how it's coming across.

Now the issue at hand, we don't have a balanced game at hand, we really dont, healing is inferior to dps atm in pvp, let me give you an example.

Player A, is a healer templar

Player B is a burst/dps whatever stam class

Now this is what happens currently, for arguments sake remove everything from the equation .

Player A and B stand opposite each other, play B sits there and just presses wrecking blow and nothing else, player A just stands there and presses BoL.

What's going to happen? Eventually player A will run out of magicka (as BoL is far more expensive to cast than wrecking blow) or will run out of stam to break free of CC.

In an ideal world, a balanced world, healing should be a good a defence as wrecking blow is an offence.

Currently burst damage IS insanely high, I've been insta gibbed now more than in 1.6, my latest ones were

(With 25k HP and 30k spell resist + CP into resistances, all these deaths were in under two seconds )

Lotus fan
Proxy det
Lotus fan
Soul harvest

Dead

Snipe
Heavy attack
Ambush
Dead

Wrecking blow
Dragon leap
Dead

Overload
Overload
Dead

Literially in most of these scenarios my templar, that by all means has a more than reasonable amount of health, in gold gear, nearly at capped resistances, is dead before I can even CC break, or even press BoL.

That is a big problem in itself, insta kill pvp is not fun, but it is the meta, you are far better going full dps than full defence / heal atm, as defence is dead, except for sorc shields aa it's one if the few proactive defence in the game.

You may have an issue with templars healing to full health from 10%, but so can any class, I've fought stam builds that popped rally+vigor at the right time and have gone from 10-90% health in just a couple of seconds.

Then healing ward, pop it at low health and get a huge shield and a huge heal, like really? It's actually more useful 1v1 (why I use it in vetmsa) as it's more effective than BoL and it's proactive.

Do you know why many people are playing templars? Because of streamers, because people like sypher made videos going "omghz this class is so good everyone should try it" even though they said that after we had been nerfed EVEN MORE.

So yeah there's a fair few arm, but they die, alot, other classes are so superior it's a complete joke, I made a magicka nb recently, as it was one of only 2 builds left to try for me, it is silly easy mode, Msa is even easier than before, pvp is so much easier, I do more damage, heal for just as much, more mobility and survivability , more regens and base stats etc.

Templars ONLY non bugged, and good skill is BoL, other classes are actually doing just as good a job if not better than us at being dedicated healers now days.

I was with a mag nb the other day, his funnel health was healing me and him for 6k per tick, just funnel that's IN cyro, my purifying ritual + Rapid regen does half that.

Did a vet pledge the other day with a sap tank nb too, I actually barely used BoL at all, his sap heals (which do more damage than my skills) were keeping everyone healed.

If we get a BoL nerf then I honestly think zos should delete the class.

Another templar dying to overload attacks.. oh no

Considering the last person to use them on me hit me for 16k, as said that's with capped spell resist and CP into magic and elemental reduction.

No a templar isn't going to out heal 16k spammable damage.

Joy_Division

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I think a lot of templars are a bit too biased to have a civil and reasonable discussion on some of the skills. It is unfortunate.

It takes two to tango.

If you think I can pop a 18K heal by just pressing a button, then you do not understand or are willfully ignoring how the mechanics of breath of life work. The 18K heal only happens if: the target is in my purifying ritual, the target is very low on health, I crit, I have high spellpower (difficult with a restoration staff), the target is not affected by a debuff of some sort, and the target actual gets the big heal. There are very real conditions that must all be in play to get the sorts of healing that complain about, yet I do not see you acknowledge in your posts that BoL is "bugged". So who's biased here?

You claim to play a templar ... take a long look at a saved combat log and you will see in many of those 30 BoLs you are pounding out in PvP, the "big" heal comes out to roughly 7-8K. Are you trying to tell me you can't outdo 8K with one global cooldown?

You often complain about a templar spamming BoL and healing a target you got CC'd and trying to burst down. That's their job! They better be able to do that if you insist on ignoring the healer and anti-healing tools you have at your disposal, otherwise healing is this game is a fail. And even then your DPS+ultimate should be enough to burn the target down, even if it takes you longer than as DPS spec would like.

A templar who relies on Breath of Life to "tank" or sustain themselves is playing Russian Roulette because those secondary heals do about 3-4K which will keep nobody alive in a game without soft caps. All it takes if for some PuG to be within 28 meters of you to steal the "big" heal and then the Templar is in trouble.

As far as the complaint that healing too far outpaces damages, that is only true because of the utterly imbalanced mechanics of barrier, purge, and maneuvers. Which, by the way, or not strictly "heals," rather too easy attained damage prevention measures a single person can apply to his 23 buddies just by hitting a button. ZoS is reigning in efficiency of these skills in the next patch - Wrobel flatly admitted it - so the damage-healing balance is going to shift significantly. Even in the age of AoE caps and feeble siege, healers cannot sustain their raids through actual heals without constant barrier rotations. Raids evaporate in seconds when someone misses a barrier. It can't be done because the actual healing in this game isn't nearly as good as you think it is.

All these complaints about player survivability is sucking the life out of this game. Tanking is completely gutted. The DK class is a joke. Can't dodge/block/bash without killing your stamina. We have crap like the shieldbreaker set. Nightblades are terrified of what changes ZoS is going to make to cloak. Everyone opts for a glass cannon build with mobility/damage avoidance because it's the only viable way to step foot in Cyrodiil and do something if you aren't in a zerg.

You claim that healing is too fast and a bit too easy. Insulting to anyone who plays a healer and once again relies on the misguided notion that pressing one button magically makes 15k heals come out of thin air, but whatever, you are entitled to your opinion. Much the same can be said about damage...next time you open world Anleir and Lowpolicy, I want you to think about whether mindless spamming BoL would give you any shot whatsoever to overcome the damage those two put out, let alone beat them.

zornyan

Exactly @Joy_Division , what's even funnier is when complaining about these op heals it's pretty simply really.

To do a BoL 16k hit you will have to.

Purifying ritual
Cast BoL and pray for a crit 50/50 odds on most builds.

If you do those two things, you'll get around 15kish, that's IF you've specced you CP into quick recovery and more healing, so obviously you'll be taking more damage and doing less damage than others.

In those two global cooldown you can

Heavy attack animation cancelled into wrecking blow, medium weave, wrecking blow.

Which can do upwards of 30k damage, twice what that one crit heal will do.

With better crit chances, and you'll cc me on the first one preventing me even hitting BoL in the first place.

Preyfar

tplink3r1 wrote: »

I understand how it is difficult to balance a game, but i can't see an excuse for toppling charge be left bugged how it is until the next major update. I CAN'T EVEN CAST IT NOW! It is worse than it was 6 months ago.
Am i supposed to use a stamina gap closer as a magicka templar?

I get this bug non-stop, and it's almost made me not want to play my Templar. Or like I feel forced to respec just to have to compensate around a bug (which costs me time, money and resources to go stamina). There's a temporary fix that works for me... and that's to close into the target and hit them with sweeps or a light attack. That fixes it for me at least temporarily. Yes, it defeats the point of a gap closer, but at least I get a chance to use my skills.

Essiaga

FENGRUSH wrote: »

I think a lot of templars are a bit too biased to have a civil and reasonable discussion on some of the skills. It is unfortunate.

First and foremost @FENGRUSH is a talented and respected member of the community and his experience will be his own so if it differs from others then that's no surprise. Not sure this was the right place to bring up a nerf to BOL or that he presented it in the best way. Kinda like calling someone ugly. Not unlike things I've done though.

There are a few points to make. First being that your group has a Healer but seems to lack a Templar. I think this is the issue for Templar class, and also the Sorc class. Type cast. You should be magicka DPS and we should stand and heal. This is the way ZOS seemed to build the game. We have BOL so we don't need Blinding Flashes, and stam builds have 2 Handed skill line so they don't need other options.

Rune gives Major Armor/Spell resistance, but we don't have a debuff like Maim or buff like Evasion, or even Protection and again we are the healer, and there fore targeted first. The shield is no larger for a light armor wearer then it is for the average stam build, as its based on health but it cost as much as a BOL. Templar needs defensive buffs so that our lower dps has time to catch up with stam builds, NB and Sorc's.

Mitigation is my biggest complain about the Templar classy. Not lack of escape or even DPS ... a side from burst damage against shield stacking. Once those are addressed I would agree that BOL and healing in general could be addressed. I think Vigor is to powerful as well. Also not keen on the resto staff at this point.

You pointed out Sorcs in Light Armor needing shields but in light armor we have 3x smaller shields on average, they last 3x less time, and cost more. Sorc's also can equip Resto staff and heal for nearly as much as BOL. Sun Shield is a magicka sink. If BOL was 3-5k it would also be a magicka sink and the majority of people playing the class would likely quit(at least the class if not the game). Why heal at all when you can't heal someone to death.

I don't disagree with anything @FENGRUSH said. Though how do you think healing should be balanced against damage when damage isn't balanced? Would you rather it be based on % of total health? For it to be worth healing then you'd need it to still be pretty strong unless mitigation will greatly reduce the amount of incoming damaged.

I think if we all sat down and really discussed the strengths and weaknesses of each class and builds, as well as the gaps created between players by CP, removal of caps, gear and gear quality, we'd probably be able to make the large majority of people happy (in theory of course) but that's because it would be negotiation rather then a bunch of random forum posts full of opinions rather the solutions.

If you make a post calling for more stam morphs I'll gladly come on and bump the crap out of it as I'm tire of the same skills for all stam builds. I haven't played one in 6-8 month (aside from NB) because they just lack options all over.

It's harder now to experiment with gear for some of us. Especially when we don't play our main due to the varies bugs in the Templar class.

cazlonb16_ESO

tplink3r1 wrote: »

I understand how it is difficult to balance a game, but i can't see an excuse for toppling charge be left bugged how it is until the next major update. I CAN'T EVEN CAST IT NOW! It is worse than it was 6 months ago.
Am i supposed to use a stamina gap closer as a magicka templar?

You're supposed to healbot or gtfo. I think ZOS have made that abundantly clear by now.

Callidus_Est

Lets forget about this whole Fengrush thing, or that Healing shouldn't outpace damage.

MAKE A SEPARATE THREAD FOR THAT.

This is supposed to be about what is wrong with TEMPLARS, specifically. SO, can we please get back on track?

Cinbri

@dodgehopper_ESO I really don't care who or what @FENGRUSH is. I could write post by post why his opinion less and less competent in this thread. But i simply won't waste time on this narcissist and won't write absolutelly useless for game walls of text nor i will come to others classes' bug compilation thread and start crying of nerfs masking personal dislikes under "balance issue". Gina asked for bugs and unclear mechanics and thats what i will do here.

---

@ZOS_GinaBruno as requested, i wanna get confirmation about undiscussed mechanics and bugs:
1. Jabs - Noone still clarify this mechanic: tooltip of skill stating it apply knockback on closest target, however if target is under effect of CC immunity knockback applying on next hitted target. Like, if you cast Jabs 3 times while hitting 3 targets - each of them will be "CCed" and will get CC immunity. Please clarify if its intended or no.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sy04s0XhWtA

2. Jabs - another mechanic noone clarified yet: when you hit target with Puncturing Sweep you get 20% healing based on damage, however when Burning Light passive procs during cast of Sweep, game count it as damage caused by Sweep and add small healing of Burning Light damage. Is it intended or bug?

As you can see - 1502 sweep heal for 773, 2598 crit sweep heal for 1204, 2598 crit sweep and 2335 BL heal for 1339.
3. Jabs - passives Mending and Focused Healing are not affecting Puncturing Sweep heals. You can see on video Sweep dealing 2309 damage and heal for 1157. With low hp and same damage, heals remained the same. Standing in Focus to proc Focused Healing still giving no results(same with Purifying Ritual). Also heals can't crit. Intended or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qti9e-mPdIA

4. 1st bug of Charge - after using templar charge, your char's panel disabling and prevent you from doing everything(despite visually it not looks like locked) for several seconds. Check my skillbar that reflect buttons i pressed after using charge on scamp and stuck:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4zYl77UO4ZY

5. 2nd bug of Charge - ability can't find the way to target and auto-cancelling upon cast despite target is in range. First 2 casts were cancelled, 3rd cast worked on another target. Maybe will post longer video from Cyro upon getting this bug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcXX32DmCCQ

6. Rite of Passage - during high latency, this ultimate has chance to not reset ult counter, i.e. you can recast ultimate again. Was able to emulate it max to cast 5 times in a row. Will upload video as soon as will dive into zergs. I believe i heared about it from Wrobel on ESO Live, but cant find it now.
7. Backlash bug - old bug when it still not dealing damage to damage shield. On video you can see how it deal 6 damage upon releasing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1j0ljBYzZw

8. Radiant Glory: passives Mending and Focused Healing are not affecting Radiant Glory heals, also heals can't crit. You can see on video 3774 RG damage cause 945 heal. On low hp and standing in buff of Focus to proc Focused Healing and Mending passives, healing output still the same(note that standing in Purifying Ritual not proccing Focused Healing passive for this ability too). Intended or not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M6mtyAaVO4

9. Rune Focus - it seems Focused Healing passive area for this skill is a little bit bigger than skill visual. As you can barely see on video: without passive buff - 5118 heal. In Focus - 6398, couple steps from Focus - still 6398(the numbers are valid).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tk7JdbSnqGE

10. Rite of Passage bug - still dodging/using shuffle make allies to skip healing. Also still dodging healing grants ultimate points

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rKKBfiHHy4

Soris

@Cinbri number 3 and 8 are ok because mending and focused healing includes "your restoring light abilities" in their tooltip.

For #2, that sweep heal after the burning light proc is happen to calculated by the burning light damage instead of the sweep damage.It happen to be a bug, though not that significant I guess. Difference is so little.

Cinbri

Soris wrote: »

@Cinbri number 3 and 8 are ok because mending and focused healing includes "your restoring light abilities" in their tooltip.

For #2, that sweep heal after the burning light proc is happen to calculated by the burning light damage instead of the sweep damage.It happen to be a bug, though not that significant I guess. Difference is so little.

Yep, i intended to say it would be moree effective if it works for all templar skills, not just 1 skill tree.And still both jabs and RG can't crit heal. No reason why they couldn't while those healing skills even not affected by templar passives used for healing.

RinaldoGandolphi

Soris wrote: »

Anyways, BoL heal is meant to be strong as its raw cost is about 4k magicka which is 2 times more than a whatever dmg skill and it should heal accordingly.

Indeed.

Also Vigor is the best heal in the game when evaluated in per cost to healing received...Vigor heals for more then Breath of Life or Ritual of Rebirth and its cheaper. Each tick of Vigor is usually more then Blessing of Restoration from a Resto Staff. Simply put Vigor is the best heal in the game when evaluated by cost, yet everyone complains about the Templar's Breath of Life..

Templar's need help in a lot of areas, more so then any other class.

Our main damage skill just hands out CC Immunity (Jabs)
Toppling Charge is bugged and either don't work of leaves you stuck in the animation

Eclipse with its nerf and such is not anywhere near as useful and it shouldn't really be tied to CC Immunity, getting out of should require Purging it, not breaking out of it. Imagine if DK Scales wouldn't work if someone was CC Immune, the QQ on these forums would cause ZOS servers to crash.

Dark Flare has far longer then a 1.1 cast time and the high arc and slow moving projectile makes it extremely difficult to hit anyone with.

Backlash and its morphs can't crit and the cap over 6 secs is simply not high enough to matter.

the Radius of the damage reduction on Remembrance is too small, considering the caster is rooted in place it should heal more people from a larger radius and the damage reduction should reach father, it is afterall a healing ultimate and the caster is a sitting duck in 1 place for 4-6 secs.

Blazing Shield needs help, the DK shield does too, but I don't think any health scaling shield should be effected by the Battle Spirit reduction, you have Sorcs right now with 10-12k wards, your lucky to get Blazing Shield to 6k with 32k health giving up damage and resources to do so...simply put, it needs help, they literally killed this skill when it was Hardened Ward that was the problem to begin with.

Blazing Spear needs to be an AOE stun instead of just stunning 1 target.

Solariken

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks guys, we'll start to dig into this next week. One thing that would help a lot is separating feedback and suggestions from actual bugs.

Regarding Templars, there's a lot of gray area between explicit bugs and much-needed "fixes" for ineffective or under-performing abilities. Previous posters have laid out most of the bugs I know about, but here are some more thoughts for improvement:

1. Remove the hard CC on the final jab of Puncturing Strikes and replace it with a decent short-duration AoE snare on the first jab, such that there is a better chance of landing subsequent jabs and so we don't give out so much hard CC immunity for free.

2. If you aren't going to rework the skill, at least return Sun Shield to the base 30% of health in PvP. Blazing Shield especially was designed on this value and to cut it in half is to render it completely useless. Please do this, I beg you.

3. Eclipse needs a re-work. The fact that it's limited to one target, is CC-breakable, and not effective on elite PvE mobs makes it worthless. There are lots of things you could do to this skill to make it more meaningful, but here's one idea:

Envelop an enemy in a lightless sphere that deals X Magic damage and inflicts Major Maim for 4 seconds. When the sphere expires, it implodes for X Magic damage to the target. [No AoE damage. NOT CC-breakable, but can be purged/cleansed. Can be cast on multiple targets.]

Perhaps one morph could provide the AoE damage bomb while the other morph could provide AoE healing to allies.

4. The Templar passive "Light Weaver" is by far the weakest and most un-helpful passive in the entire game. Please provide something meaningful here.

5. Radial Sweep desperately needs a range increase to 8m because it fails to hit so often, even at point-blank. Also, I'm not exactly sure how it works at present, but its area of effect should be a sphere around the caster to prevent it missing due to slight elevation differences.

dodgehopper_ESO

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Anyways, BoL heal is meant to be strong as its raw cost is about 4k magicka which is 2 times more than a whatever dmg skill and it should heal accordingly.

Indeed.

Also Vigor is the best heal in the game when evaluated in per cost to healing received...Vigor heals for more then Breath of Life or Ritual of Rebirth and its cheaper. Each tick of Vigor is usually more then Blessing of Restoration from a Resto Staff. Simply put Vigor is the best heal in the game when evaluated by cost, yet everyone complains about the Templar's Breath of Life..

Templar's need help in a lot of areas, more so then any other class.

Our main damage skill just hands out CC Immunity (Jabs)
Toppling Charge is bugged and either don't work of leaves you stuck in the animation

Eclipse with its nerf and such is not anywhere near as useful and it shouldn't really be tied to CC Immunity, getting out of should require Purging it, not breaking out of it. Imagine if DK Scales wouldn't work if someone was CC Immune, the QQ on these forums would cause ZOS servers to crash.

Dark Flare has far longer then a 1.1 cast time and the high arc and slow moving projectile makes it extremely difficult to hit anyone with.

Backlash and its morphs can't crit and the cap over 6 secs is simply not high enough to matter.

the Radius of the damage reduction on Remembrance is too small, considering the caster is rooted in place it should heal more people from a larger radius and the damage reduction should reach father, it is afterall a healing ultimate and the caster is a sitting duck in 1 place for 4-6 secs.

Blazing Shield needs help, the DK shield does too, but I don't think any health scaling shield should be effected by the Battle Spirit reduction, you have Sorcs right now with 10-12k wards, your lucky to get Blazing Shield to 6k with 32k health giving up damage and resources to do so...simply put, it needs help, they literally killed this skill when it was Hardened Ward that was the problem to begin with.

Blazing Spear needs to be an AOE stun instead of just stunning 1 target.

I agree with a lot of what you say. I don't know if I agree that Vigor is really better than BoL, but I do know my BoL's were instant striking higher numbers on a mag build than my Vigor was getting on a stam/weapon build. The nice thing about Vigor is that is heals over time and can stack with things like Rally/Siphon. The big problem I have with Vigor is that Templar (the healing class) is actually the worst at Vigor (and Rally) thereby making the 'healing class' literally the worst stamina class with poor mitigation.

Your points about Blazing Shield are greatly appreciated. My tank builds in pvp were hinged on BS and it required a good understanding of when to use the ability to not run out of magicka even then. They gave me nice aoe damage output that forced players to spread out and/or deal with me. In short it allowed me to play as a tank/disruptor in pvp and pve. I had to abandon the tanky spec due to the changes that have since transpired gutting BS, Blocking, Rolling, etc.

All your other statements are good regarding flare, backlash, toppling, jabs, javelin and eclipse. These are well known problems to anyone who plays Templar long enough. I'd like to add one more thing though. Biting Jabs/Sweeps would be a lot more useful if it were a 2 strike attack than a 4 strike. The fact that it roots you in position and gives you no control on the direction being fired is a liability in pve, and guts the usefulness significantly of the ability in pvp. People in the Sorc and DK class complain they do not have a Stamina attack in their skill line because we have jabs. This isn't entirely true by the way, DK has its flame breath which is actually quite nice for what it does. The real issue is that Nightblades have a far superior set of stamina attack tools that can be clipped. Very little in the Templar line can be clipped with the kind of efficient you find in Sorc or NB, and Jabs is one of these skills. I'm not going to deny if your target stands still and takes all 4 jabs it can hit harder than a wrecking blow. The reality is that anyone competent will walk or roll out of it and cc you (Talons for instance). I find Wrecking blow to be vastly more competitive than Jabs because it has solid burst, ends with a cc, and can be chained both for damage and cc. The same skills used for one are used for the other but I can maneuver on my target with a WB, and I can't do that with a Biting Jabs. It is a monumental difference in effectiveness. Jabs is great in pve because mobs are stupid, but even there I can spin a steel tornado and get better aoe and damage all the while weaving in other things. Because of all these things my solution or suggestion is that they cut the number of strikes to 1 or 2 or if it is possible make the skill as easy to maneuver with as wrecking blow. I feel they should do this in addition to getting rid of the poorly designed .1 second cc on the final strike. How can a .1 second knockback cc (or whatever it is) put someone on such a long cc timer when Wrecking blow can juggle someone infinitely (if they are bad at pvp or out of stamina).

WillhelmBlack

So I'd like to ask @FENGRUSH, @Sypher and @JackDaniell , I know you all have gripes with Breath of Life, I watch your streams.

Is it BoL that is OP or is it large groups with specific roles and more than 2 healers that is OP?

I ask as I consider my self an average solo/small group player but I know my build, it took me basically all of patch 1.6 to get it right again and then it was nerfed heavily again in 1.7 but it's still probably the best build that suits my playstyle. I have no mitigation, shields or class tanking abilities, I stay alive with block, BoL and Purifying Ritual.
Just because I can do 11k BoL's doesn't mean you have to start all over again when I'm back at full health, you will have ran me very low of resources by then and taken no significant damage, with Magicka Templars it is always that we are out of both resources that kills us.
I'm sorry that some people feel that some sort of burst heal instead of passive healing is OP and defeats them rather than looking at the bigger picture and judging where their resource pools are at. I thought that's what good PvP'ers do?

As someone already said, you kill BoL, you kill a class.

Callidus_Est

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So I'd like to ask @FENGRUSH, @Sypher and @JackDaniell , I know you all have gripes with Breath of Life, I watch your streams.

Is it BoL that is OP or is it large groups with specific roles and more than 2 healers that is OP?

I ask as I consider my self an average solo/small group player but I know my build, it took me basically all of patch 1.6 to get it right again and then it was nerfed heavily again in 1.7 but it's still probably the best build that suits my playstyle. I have no mitigation, shields or class tanking abilities, I stay alive with block, BoL and Purifying Ritual.
Just because I can do 11k BoL's doesn't mean you have to start all over again when I'm back at full health, you will have ran me very low of resources by then and taken no significant damage, with Magicka Templars it is always that we are out of both resources that kills us.
I'm sorry that some people feel that some sort of burst heal instead of passive healing is OP and defeats them rather than looking at the bigger picture and judging where their resource pools are at. I thought that's what good PvP'ers do?

As someone already said, you kill BoL, you kill a class.

Can you please make a separate thread for this? This is not relevant to this thread.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

I want a 180 dregree cone on jabs with 10m range. I want it into 2 strikes also and a snare attatched to it. I also want to be able to aim the damn thing when i'm rooted to the spot.

WillhelmBlack

Callidus_Est wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

So I'd like to ask @FENGRUSH, @Sypher and @JackDaniell , I know you all have gripes with Breath of Life, I watch your streams.

Is it BoL that is OP or is it large groups with specific roles and more than 2 healers that is OP?

I ask as I consider my self an average solo/small group player but I know my build, it took me basically all of patch 1.6 to get it right again and then it was nerfed heavily again in 1.7 but it's still probably the best build that suits my playstyle. I have no mitigation, shields or class tanking abilities, I stay alive with block, BoL and Purifying Ritual.
Just because I can do 11k BoL's doesn't mean you have to start all over again when I'm back at full health, you will have ran me very low of resources by then and taken no significant damage, with Magicka Templars it is always that we are out of both resources that kills us.
I'm sorry that some people feel that some sort of burst heal instead of passive healing is OP and defeats them rather than looking at the bigger picture and judging where their resource pools are at. I thought that's what good PvP'ers do?

As someone already said, you kill BoL, you kill a class.

Can you please make a separate thread for this? This is not relevant to this thread.

Yeah sorry, double hijack.

maxjapank

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I want a 180 dregree cone on jabs with 10m range. I want it into 2 strikes also and a snare attatched to it. I also want to be able to aim the damn thing when i'm rooted to the spot.

I'm fine with the range. But the snare would be welcome. And if anything, they just need to take away the cc component from Sweeps. Many Templars asked for this during the IC pts. Just having nothing was better than what it did and does now.

AfkNinja

maxjapank wrote: »

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I want a 180 dregree cone on jabs with 10m range. I want it into 2 strikes also and a snare attatched to it. I also want to be able to aim the damn thing when i'm rooted to the spot.

I'm fine with the range. But the snare would be welcome. And if anything, they just need to take away the cc component from Sweeps. Many Templars asked for this during the IC pts. Just having nothing was better than what it did and does now.

Either get rid of the knockback or move it to the first hit and lengthen it to like a 2 second KD so all of biting jabs will land. It's just way to hard to land all four hits and the KB at the end is worthless, at least if it was at the start there would be a chance to land more hits.

Wrecking Blow should not out dps Biting Jabs imo.

maxjapank

AfkNinja wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO wrote: »

I want a 180 dregree cone on jabs with 10m range. I want it into 2 strikes also and a snare attatched to it. I also want to be able to aim the damn thing when i'm rooted to the spot.

I'm fine with the range. But the snare would be welcome. And if anything, they just need to take away the cc component from Sweeps. Many Templars asked for this during the IC pts. Just having nothing was better than what it did and does now.

Either get rid of the knockback or move it to the first hit and lengthen it to like a 2 second KD so all of biting jabs will land. It's just way to hard to land all four hits and the KB at the end is worthless, at least if it was at the start there would be a chance to land more hits.

Wrecking Blow should not out dps Biting Jabs imo.

I'd be fine with that, too.

iamnotweakrwb17_ESO

Actually I think the main annoyance with jabs is that it goes in the direction your character is facing and not the direction your characters crosshairs are. In PvE I will side straffe a lot which allows the jabs to hit more or less correctly. In PvP, you can't do this because people do not stand still at all. That means the jabs are going everywhere but where you actually want them to go. It also means that if you are rooted, you will not be able to turn around to jab.

I think the roots in PvP is what mostly needs adjusting. You should still be able to turn your character on the spot. I would welcome a cone increase as it would make landing them so much easier. The lame knockback is something that absolutely needs to go tho and it really does need a snare.

zornyan

Haven't used dw skills in ages, does flurry stick to a target and is usable when rooted like other normal skills?

AfkNinja

zornyan wrote: »

Haven't used dw skills in ages, does flurry stick to a target and is usable when rooted like other normal skills?

IIRC it works almost exactly like a single target Jabs. If they roll through me it cancels, cant turn when bound etc.

zornyan

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Haven't used dw skills in ages, does flurry stick to a target and is usable when rooted like other normal skills?

IIRC it works almost exactly like a single target Jabs. If they roll through me it cancels, cant turn when bound etc.

Ah damm, could have been a good basis.

Basically what needs to happen to jabs is

"Strike at an enemy with a spear of aedric light, the spear hits 4 times in 0.7 seconds and hits for 4000 (example) every hit, all nearby enemies recieve 20% of the total damage when the last jab lands"

Make it a single target skill, that has an aoe as a side effect, end result is the same as it is now but it will work properly.

Essiaga

zornyan wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Haven't used dw skills in ages, does flurry stick to a target and is usable when rooted like other normal skills?

IIRC it works almost exactly like a single target Jabs. If they roll through me it cancels, cant turn when bound etc.

Ah damm, could have been a good basis.

Basically what needs to happen to jabs is

"Strike at an enemy with a spear of aedric light, the spear hits 4 times in 0.7 seconds and hits for 4000 (example) every hit, all nearby enemies recieve 20% of the total damage when the last jab lands"

Make it a single target skill, that has an aoe as a side effect, end result is the same as it is now but it will work properly.

Making it single target for the magicka version would mean it would be reflected. Keep the AOE on Magicka version please.