Please watch what you add to the Crown Store...

Kutsuu

There is a difference between pay for convenience and pay to win. Pay to win generally involves advantages unattainable otherwise, or endgame items that otherwise require a great deal of effort or time investment. Getting a bite and doing the quest is not particularly difficult nor does it require a great deal of effort. A single 2-hour 50% xp buff gives more total bang for buck as far as "time saved" than this, IMO, and you can buy 7 of them for the cost of a vampire/WW bite.

Turelus

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

How is that P2W?

Cp in crown store is P2W.

The definition of P2W is anything you buy that gives you an instant edge in gameplay that influences how other players play, especially combat-related. While this isn't a big one it is still a P2W feature. You are literally buying a new skill line because it lets you skip the initiation quest that you would normally have to complete to earn your new skill line.

They theories that minor things like this are P2W is what mucks up what is clear P2W and what isn't. By your standards this game has been P2W since release.

Imperial Edition:

• Bonus Race which performs better in some gameplay styles.
• Ring of Mara which makes people level faster.
• Free Mount which let people skip the large gold requirements.

Pre-Order/Adventurers Pack:

• Any Race/Alliance letting people play stronger races for their roles in alliance which didn't normally offer it.
• Treasure Maps which gave people more money/gear.

Tamriel Unlimited:

• ESO Plus which grants more EXP/Gold/Inspiration/Research time.

In the current place the game is at becoming a werewolf or vampire isn't very challenging and the bite/quest part of it being skipped is pretty minor.

Pay to win only reaches pay to win when it's not something you can ever achieve within the realms of the game for free. If they start selling items within the store which surpass the current ones available by grinding/playing then you will have pay to win, otherwise all of these still fit under the option of convenience items.

Players having these skill lines isn't exclusive and as such how they obtain them doesn't impact your game in any way to their advantage, if the player didn't pay for it with crowns they would have just got a bite via other means, completed the trivial quest and still be having the same effect on your game as the one who paid for it with crowns.

driosketch

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Some people seem to be under the impression that the bites themselves are what I am saying is P2W but it isn't. If it were just the bites it would not be P2W. The bit that makes it P2W is you can completely bypass the quest you must undergo to earn the Skill Lines and stats associated with the infection. I know it isn't a hard quest and all but P2W is still P2W and this small step in that direction may indicate bleak times for ESO.

As for what I meant by "negative results" you'd be surprised how much P2W can break a game.

I guess I can see this as an issue for the Non Vet Campaign, only because a player could get the skill line much earlier and easier, and start training it up.

Turelus

driosketch wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Some people seem to be under the impression that the bites themselves are what I am saying is P2W but it isn't. If it were just the bites it would not be P2W. The bit that makes it P2W is you can completely bypass the quest you must undergo to earn the Skill Lines and stats associated with the infection. I know it isn't a hard quest and all but P2W is still P2W and this small step in that direction may indicate bleak times for ESO.

As for what I meant by "negative results" you'd be surprised how much P2W can break a game.

I guess I can see this as an issue for the Non Vet Campaign, only because a player could get the skill line much earlier and easier, and start training it up.

Players who know what they're doing or join guilds already complete this quest right away.

Also selling these officially goes a way towards stopping the RMT sales of them via auction and gold selling sites. During the console release there were bites going on a popular auction site for £11 and selling, last time I checked the person advertising had made 8 sales within their first two weeks.

JamilaRaj

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

Unless someone can prove beyond a doubt that being a vampire or WW automatically means that person will win every fight, or the majority of fights, solely by having one or the other skill set, then I don't really think people need to worry about it.

Because you picked wrong comparison. Whether WWs/vamps are superior to pure humans is irrelevant, we have to ask whether player who paid gained some advantage over player doing the same but who did not pay, and yes, he gained. Aside from the option per se to skip the quest, he can also use that time to do something more profitable than the quest, and that difference in profit each player makes is paid for advantage, i.e. P2W.
You also seem to be oblivious to the fact that even if you can not point to any present P2W element in the game and say this one means person will automatically win, the game may be well beyond the point where people who pay do in fact win automatically, because little adavntages we do not have to worry about from individual P2W schemes stack.

Kutsuu wrote: »

There is a difference between pay for convenience and pay to win. Pay to win generally involves advantages unattainable otherwise, or endgame items that otherwise require a great deal of effort or time investment.

No effort rewards are unattainable otherwise. You could grind them, but...ooops, no longer no effort rewards.

Turelus wrote: »

. By your standards this game has been P2W since release.

Imperial Edition:

• Bonus Race which performs better in some gameplay styles.
• Ring of Mara which makes people level faster.
• Free Mount which let people skip the large gold requirements.

Pre-Order/Adventurers Pack:

• Any Race/Alliance letting people play stronger races for their roles in alliance which didn't normally offer it.
• Treasure Maps which gave people more money/gear.

Tamriel Unlimited:

• ESO Plus which grants more EXP/Gold/Inspiration/Research time.

Indeed, these all are P2W elements.

CavalierPrime

Basically for me, a mag dk, vamps get tossed and werewolves cant Wrecking Blow. I want everyone to purchase these.

i3ig_Gun

Turelus wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

How is that P2W?

Cp in crown store is P2W.

The definition of P2W is anything you buy that gives you an instant edge in gameplay that influences how other players play, especially combat-related. While this isn't a big one it is still a P2W feature. You are literally buying a new skill line because it lets you skip the initiation quest that you would normally have to complete to earn your new skill line.

They theories that minor things like this are P2W is what mucks up what is clear P2W and what isn't. By your standards this game has been P2W since release.

Imperial Edition:

• Bonus Race which performs better in some gameplay styles.
• Ring of Mara which makes people level faster.
• Free Mount which let people skip the large gold requirements.

Pre-Order/Adventurers Pack:

• Any Race/Alliance letting people play stronger races for their roles in alliance which didn't normally offer it.
• Treasure Maps which gave people more money/gear.

Tamriel Unlimited:

• ESO Plus which grants more EXP/Gold/Inspiration/Research time.

In the current place the game is at becoming a werewolf or vampire isn't very challenging and the bite/quest part of it being skipped is pretty minor.

Pay to win only reaches pay to win when it's not something you can ever achieve within the realms of the game for free. If they start selling items within the store which surpass the current ones available by grinding/playing then you will have pay to win, otherwise all of these still fit under the option of convenience items.

Players having these skill lines isn't exclusive and as such how they obtain them doesn't impact your game in any way to their advantage, if the player didn't pay for it with crowns they would have just got a bite via other means, completed the trivial quest and still be having the same effect on your game as the one who paid for it with crowns.

This guy has the right definition for P2W

Zombiehunter7X

Id say a gd example of P2W is destiny s go straight to lve 25 for £24.99 now something like that i hate.

vyrusb23

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pay to win features are a great way to ruin your game Zenimax. You took your first step in that direction by letting people pretty much buy the Werewolf and Vampire Skill Lines directly from the Crown Store. Please make sure this is your first AND LAST P2W addition to the Crown Store or you may see some negative results...

Please watch how you post. This is a bad one. Please make sure this is your first AND LAST terrible post.

Seriously, your impotent crocodile tears (thanks ADarklore) and false sense of importance are laughable. Do you notice all of the PvP rage at letting people have vampire and werewolf bites? Do you see the multiple posts complaining of how OP vampire and werewolves are in combat? Oh wait, you don't? That's because it's not an issue. It only becomes an issue when people such as yourself need some MMO cause to champion, and feel like they're really important bringing this horrifying and gamebreaking feature to the forefront.

I wish PvP would just go away.

HisShadowX

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pay to win features are a great way to ruin your game Zenimax. You took your first step in that direction by letting people pretty much buy the Werewolf and Vampire Skill Lines directly from the Crown Store. Please make sure this is your first AND LAST P2W addition to the Crown Store or you may see some negative results...

The hardcore minority is just that a minority and any game that appears just them fails. Casuals are the future don't like it Everquest is still a ghost town

Hayhurst

You've got pay-to-save-time/effort and pay-to-win mixed up mate.