Please watch what you add to the Crown Store...

UltimaJoe777

Pay to win features are a great way to ruin your game Zenimax. You took your first step in that direction by letting people pretty much buy the Werewolf and Vampire Skill Lines directly from the Crown Store. Please make sure this is your first AND LAST P2W addition to the Crown Store or you may see some negative results...

Van_0S

How is that P2W?

Cp in crown store is P2W.

UltimaJoe777

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

How is that P2W?

Cp in crown store is P2W.

The definition of P2W is anything you buy that gives you an instant edge in gameplay that influences how other players play, especially combat-related. While this isn't a big one it is still a P2W feature. You are literally buying a new skill line because it lets you skip the initiation quest that you would normally have to complete to earn your new skill line.

Spacemonkey

Must have missed that. I did not see a WW or Vamp crown store option....

UltimaJoe777

Spacemonkey wrote: »

Must have missed that. I did not see a WW or Vamp crown store option....

I personally haven't looked either but will when I get online later but it has been abuzz all over General Discussion.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234085/vampire-and-werewolf-bites-in-the-crown-store

In fact, Gina was the one that said it lets you skip the quest!

Kwivur

Yeah, I just asked in the "Ask Us anything" section, if I could get an ETA on when they planned on going P2W. ZOS SHOULD NEVER AGAIN OFFER SKILL SETS IN THE CROWN STORE!!! You're really starting to F*** UP ZOS!!

poodlemasterb16_ESO

They jumped the shark for me a while ago. I wonder how far they will go in this destruction of the original game, to pay themselves.

I quit caring so it's just interesting at this point.

ADarklore

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

Kwivur

ADarklore wrote: »

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

I gave you an awesome for this.. Not because it is, but because now I see Zos caters to R*T***S.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

I have quit playing the game. I log on and check my mail. That's it.

Since the consoles joined it's been steadily downhill, and this last move is really the end for me.

pronkg

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

I have quit playing the game. I log on and check my mail. That's it.

Since the consoles joined it's been steadily downhill, and this last move is really the end for me.

And you think anyone cares?

JamilaRaj

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Pay to win features are a great way to ruin your game Zenimax. You took your first step in that direction by letting people pretty much buy the Werewolf and Vampire Skill Lines directly from the Crown Store. Please make sure this is your first AND LAST P2W addition to the Crown Store or you may see some negative results...

Such as? More complaints, but nobody really ragequitting the game? I am sure the Monetization Department is shivering with terror.

EDIT: besides, ZOS probably just wants to train players to accept skill lines for money before it introduces some new, superior skill lines in future DLCs, i.e. skill lines flat out paywalled.

Alucardo

Considering devouring swarm is the main cause of my deaths in PVP it's pretty damn close to P2W

poodlemasterb16_ESO

pronkg wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

I have quit playing the game. I log on and check my mail. That's it.

Since the consoles joined it's been steadily downhill, and this last move is really the end for me.

And you think anyone cares?

Oh, quite a few people really but I have time

pronkg wrote: »

poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Boo-hoo! Look at all the crocodile tears. It was discovered through data mining months ago about WW and Vamp coming to the Crown Store, they even had it on PTS last month and nobody said a word about it... suddenly they actually do it and now some people are complaining?

First and foremost, they've severely nerfed vamp and WW over the past few months, making it not offer any genuine advantage at all. Secondly, it isn't like this is not offered in the game through other means... adding it to the Crown Store is just a means of avoiding all those players trying to SELL bites or the hassle of trying to find anyone to bite for free or trying to figure out whether it's a new moon, midnight, etc. Skipping the quest, again, BIG DEAL. The vamp quest became so watered down that you could pretty much complete it at any level as long as you could get to the altar.

At least this way it allows low level players the ability to get the skill line without the hassles. However, I am sure the majority of players complaining are simply waiting for the slightest thing that resembles P2W so they can jump on ZOS... some people should spend more time PLAYING THE GAME instead of worrying about what other players are doing. Also, if you're dying against vampires and werewolves, then it is clearly a L2P issue and not a P2W. But, if you're still jealous of vamps and WWs, at least now you have an easy means of leveling the playing field. Oh, but wait, this is P2W, right? So why haven't YOU been playing as a vamp or WW to have this incredible advantage?!? Or, perhaps you're just mad because you had to go through the hassles of getting a bite or paid for a bite and had to do the quest, now you're upset because other players have it easier. ::eyeroll:: OK... done ranting... for now.

I have quit playing the game. I log on and check my mail. That's it.

Since the consoles joined it's been steadily downhill, and this last move is really the end for me.

And you think anyone cares?

A lot of people care about this. It may signal a "bridge too far" for ZOS. One can only hope.

Xjcon

How is that pay to win? Anyone who isn't completely withdrawn from how anything in this game works isn't going to waste crowns when they can simply get their bite for free.

Bebopgroove

Unless it boiled down to it being maaaybe difficult to obtain for free because of ***'s, unless you're in a guild that kindly provides them. And also this forum, and facebook for arranging bites. So really I could only see them purchasing a bite if they were plus members and lazy.

UltimaJoe777

Some people seem to be under the impression that the bites themselves are what I am saying is P2W but it isn't. If it were just the bites it would not be P2W. The bit that makes it P2W is you can completely bypass the quest you must undergo to earn the Skill Lines and stats associated with the infection. I know it isn't a hard quest and all but P2W is still P2W and this small step in that direction may indicate bleak times for ESO.

As for what I meant by "negative results" you'd be surprised how much P2W can break a game.

JamilaRaj

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

Some people seem to be under the impression that the bites themselves are what I am saying is P2W but it isn't. If it were just the bites it would not be P2W. The bit that makes it P2W is you can completely bypass the quest you must undergo to earn the Skill Lines and stats associated with the infection. I know it isn't a hard quest and all but P2W is still P2W and this small step in that direction may indicate bleak times for ESO.

As for what I meant by "negative results" you'd be surprised how much P2W can break a game.

You would be surprised how many players genuinely like P2W, how many like P2W if it is at least thinly veiled so they can pretend they it is not P2W and, last but not least, how gullible people are if they are fed P2W in piecemeal fashion (especially if it is also posionous pill, i.e. gross P2W element paired with something exciting, say chance to win million dollars) - they will be playing the game long after it will have descended bellow the point they would have written it off as P2W garbage and never started with it if it was like that from the beginning.

EDIT: that 1M award is primarily marketing stunt that will ensure ESO is talked about on the net (might be even cheaper than ads and certainly more effective), but works the other way too, as it will distract attention from other things, be it P2W, The Lag or whatever.

Nebthet78

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »

How is that P2W?

Cp in crown store is P2W.

The definition of P2W is anything you buy that gives you an instant edge in gameplay that influences how other players play, especially combat-related. While this isn't a big one it is still a P2W feature. You are literally buying a new skill line because it lets you skip the initiation quest that you would normally have to complete to earn your new skill line.

Well considering the fact that any player can walk out of the Coldharbour Tutorial, spam zone chat looking for a vampire bite and get one immediately from another player, either for free or from that other player selling it, the argument regarding WW and Vamp bites being P2W is just wrong.

It is purely a convenience item at this point as players are just side stepping having to get it from other players and are instead getting it from ZOS directly.

These players still have to level up the skills and everything like that, so it's not all handed to them on a silver platter.

TheShadowScout

Pfffftttttt...

I have one part-time furry and one professional sucker among my characters. I did both of them the hard way, waiting in Reapers March and Bangkorai for the right night, and finding a mob that wasn't "cleaned" by some who may or may not have been hoping to sell bites.

How is selling something that can be gotten for free in-game now PtW???

I consider it convinience at best, "foolish for those to pay for it when they could get it for free with some effort" at worst...

ADarklore

Some players don't comprehend what P2W actually is. Pay to win is something that you can buy in a game marketplace that cannot also be gained easily within the game itself. Thus it forces players to pay for it because of the difficulty in gaining otherwise, and if you don't buy it, you're at a distinct disadvantage against other players. Obviously, this is NOT the case with either Vampire or WW skill lines.

Funny how @UltimaJoe777 thinks that simply because you skip the quest, that this is what is making it P2W. I'm somehow missing the "WIN" part in this scenario. You are not WINNING anything against other players and players are not at a disadvantage by not buying the bite... the ONLY thing you're doing is achieving the skill line faster- but you still have to level up that skill line. Thus it is a convenience item that people would pay $15 for, not a means of increasing your combat advantage over other players. Therefore, I'd call it P2L... pay to be lazy. I'm ok with that, as the money goes to continue supporting the game.

Now let's take another MMO, DCUO... they sell POWERS in their marketplace that cannot be gained within the game itself (unless you're a subscriber)... and many times their newest power is OP compared to the rest. Yet, very few consider that a P2W. Perhaps ZOS can take their example and start selling new abilities, classes, races, etc. in the Crown Store.

Jitterbug

Alucardo wrote: »

Considering devouring swarm is the main cause of my deaths in PVP it's pretty damn close to P2W

You know I both like and respect you @Alucardo but is that really true?

Alucardo

Jitterbug wrote: »

You know I both like and respect you @Alucardo but is that really true?

Yeah, I'm not just saying it. It's a damn good (and cheap) ultimate, so I'd use it too if I actually wanted to be a vamp.

UltimaJoe777

Some of you people take Pay to Win too literally. I will say what I said in twitch chat earlier: If you can literally buy a skill line, you are paying to win. You may not see it as a win, they may not see it as a win, it could be the most insignificant win in history, but it is still something that should be earned and not bought, no matter how easy it is to earn. As for the skipping the tutorial argument that is a tutorial and you are not actually paying to skip it anyway making it moot to this topic.

The problem here is not the bite people, it is the concept of someone buying a skill line flat out.

Jayne_Doe

I've seen quite a few variations on the definition of P2W, so clearly it's subjective and open to interpretation. Not everyone feels the same about what P2W is.

Unless someone can prove beyond a doubt that being a vampire or WW automatically means that person will win every fight, or the majority of fights, solely by having one or the other skill set, then I don't really think people need to worry about it.

How many people are actually going to spend $15 on this? Enough to really break the game?

PrinceBoru

Why does any corporation exist?
To make money.
Do you think ZOS feels obliged to do what they do out of some altruistic sense of owing you something?
I'm positive ZOS closely considers any choice they make.
Keep in mind ESO offers so many ways to play the game that there are many competing interests when it comes to change.

To those who are quiting, go.
If you have lost interest then why are you lurking around?
You obviously have a better option, so go use it.
Please stop back to the forums occasionally and tell us about the game you're playing and how it is better.

cote-bmsb16_ESO

Oh they added ww to the crown store, about the same time a bug appears in the werewolf quest line, that makes it extremely difficult to become a werewolf for free.

Hmm.. Seems fishy.

Jokerz Fury

Just going to be honest, I have respect for those that are against P2W games, however, they HAVE to make more than they spend or there would be no reason for them to keep the game going. I personally like P2W games. You either don't have much time to play so you spend the money you work for towards the game to have a better experience, or you have a lot of time and you spend it on grinding.

There is nothing wrong with what they are doing. They could easily create combat pets that you can spend money on to make them even stronger. THAT would be one of the highest lvls of paying to win but as you can tell, they aren't doing that. They know what they are doing and they know what will be best for the game. Complaining about it isn't going to help anyone.

shugg

As some of people have said this is not p2w as with help you can do this at a very low level - p2w would be a potion that boosts stats for x amount of time and is only Available in the crown store or mats that you would never be able to farm as it would take years.. Vamp and ww is fine by me in the store if they did monster helms i would have a stronger reaction to but it still wont be p2w

Palidon

All you players who complain about what is or whats been added to the crown store need to give it a rest.

First of all if ZOS whats to put everything you can get in the game in the crown store its their business not yours.

Some players might not want to farm over and over again the Undaunted pledges, Trials or Public Dungeons in hopes of getting that great weapon, piece of armor, motif page or crafting material they are looking for and would welcome the chance to just buy it.

If you do not like what ZOS is doing then you always have the option to just leave the game.

DannyLV702

Alucardo wrote: »

Jitterbug wrote: »

You know I both like and respect you @Alucardo but is that really true?

Yeah, I'm not just saying it. It's a damn good (and cheap) ultimate, so I'd use it too if I actually wanted to be a vamp.

I seriously love my swarm. Once I use it against a Zerg, something is guaranteed to die lol. Only thing that ruins it is when another sorc streaks through my swarm haha. But I do that too against others