I got called a horribad healer today- vet COA- Am i doing something wrong?

Makkir

All v16s, group had a nightblade who literally died on every pull (trash and bosses), and our group fell apart after about 20 attempts on the Titan boss. This same nightblade died every single fire rain storm the boss cast. When we fell apart, he sent me a few whispers telling me I sucked, my heals sucked too, and that he survived more than I did. I had two deaths on this boss and both times the other 2 dps both ran to me during the fire rain and we all just insta-died.

As a Sorc healer, I am running the following set up on my resto bar
Rapid Regen, Healing Ward, Harness Majicka and Hard Ward (for this particular boss), and Conversion

I also run Ele Drain, B Storm, Crit Surge, and some other buffs where I can on my Destro Bar.

I run 5pc Maras, 3pc Willpower, and the rest is Kagrenac's Hope...and Legendary. I am running the Crit& mundus stone and sit at about 290 CPs

This particular boss ALWAYS makes some sort of comment before he casts the fire rain. This is my cue to reapply shields and boundless storm and then spam the hell out of healing ward.

Of the many attempts I have made and completed this boss in CoA, I have never caused my group to die. I have cleared this boss a few times already in the past. I don't know what else to do outside of what I listed above. I feel like putting more resto spells would be a waste of space and a waste of a cooldown. I feel like this phase of the fight is just dancing around the red circles and spamming healing ward. I also feel, although I did not verbally express it, that this nightblade was just bad and had horrible situational awareness.

Keep in mind, I am only about 4 weeks into PvE now as I have spent all my prior time in Cyrodiil. I raided 10 years in WoW so I do have an idea how they work and to not stand in fire. I feel I have progressed quite a bit since my first day stepping into vets. I am just curious if I had done anything wrong based on what I listed above?

rokrdt05

There is nothing wrong with your gear and/or set up (at least in theory). All classes make "okay" healers but, a lot of people are so used to Templar healing with Breath of Life (insta heal) it's created a static play style where people do not feel the need to pay attention to mechanics.

If said player was consistently dying, it sounds like he didn't take appropriate measures to stay out of red, keep any personal shields up, and/or stay within range of the healer. Healing Ward a lone is an amazing heal considering the shield it cast on the player while healing them. Of course even with a Templar players still cannot expect to just stay in red and expect to survive either. This game is based a lot on each players unique ability to self sustain and not necessarily always depend on other players for help. That's not to say each role is not important (dps, healer, tank), but you see a lot of dynamics in game that require you to be able to some degree do all 3.

Who knows? Said player may not have had enough health, or if he was magicka not running harness/dampen or other hots afforded, if he was stamina he may not have been taking advantage of roll dodging, blocking, or rally/vigor...

I don't personally think there is anything wrong with your set up. People tend not to take healers that aren't Templars seriously because they've had that crutch for so long. Just keep on doing what you're doing, some players really do need to L2P.

Xeven

Yeah I don't think we sorcs have the tools to keep face tanking brain dead glass cannons alive TBH. Nor should we want to. Save yourself the trouble and DPS like a boss.

At first glance of your skill bar I was like, where is the burst heal, but then I was like oh that's right, we don't f****** have one.

Makkir

@Xeven However with limited playtime I get quickly queued as a Healer versus sitting around forever as a DPS...

GilGalad

If they moved properly you could have healed that phase with rapid regen and some healing wards if anyone drops low. For the skills and gear i would change a little bit:

You don't need hardened and harness, especially when you run crit surge. So you have space for combat prayer and/or illustrious healing on your staff bar. For some fights you might need one of them (like the fungal final boss with her channel). then you can move crit surge to your healing bar and make a dmg bar like:
ele drain, liquid lightning/boundless storm, crustal fragments, force pulse/crushing shock, magelight

If you really want to run your shields and maybe boundless storm then put them on your overload bar.

For the gear: have you ever tried to heal without 5 pc of Mara? If you can sustain it then try 5 kegrenacs, 1 Kena, 2 Torug, 3 Willpower (arcane, spell dmg). If you have sustain issues replace one spell dmg enchant with cost reduction, so you still have better spell dmg then with your Mara setup but you have cost reduction for all skills. The 5 Kagrenacs also help if people die ;-)

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

They are right about everyone being used to a Templar healer..

But, as a Sorc that was strictly PvP, I assume you have Barrier? That will be your best tool as Sorc Healer in a dungeon, in my opinion. Also, Vigor is an instaheal as is Blessing of restoration, and healing Purge. I recommend all of these if you are going to continue as a Sorc healer. I have done so myself and have found that the Heals over Time are pretty worthless in terms of actually keep your team (tank) alive.

Makkir

I dont have Kena which explains why I am running pledges the past 4 weeks in the first place.
I actually evolved from 5pm Kags to 5pc Maras. The 12% resto reduction was almost a no brainer. I don't want to run a set for faster rezzes because honestly people shouldn't be dying to easy mechanics in the first place.

GilGalad

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

They are right about everyone being used to a Templar healer..

But, as a Sorc that was strictly PvP, I assume you have Barrier? That will be your best tool as Sorc Healer in a dungeon, in my opinion. Also, Vigor is an instaheal as is Blessing of restoration, and healing Purge. I recommend all of these if you are going to continue as a Sorc healer. I have done so myself and have found that the Heals over Time are pretty worthless in terms of actually keep your team (tank) alive.

Vigor doesn't heal much on a magicka build so it's worse than illustrious healing. Barrier can be an option, but I never needed it (I healed all vet dungeons on every class). For your HOT statement: HOTs are the strongest heals in this game. Especially for a tank who should be able to survive several hits a HOT is the perfect heal. A magicka NB can heal most dungeons just by spamming funnel Health (maybe the best HOT in game).

GilGalad

Makkir wrote: »

I dont have Kena which explains why I am running pledges the past 4 weeks in the first place.
I actually evolved from 5pm Kags to 5pc Maras. The 12% resto reduction was almost a no brainer. I don't want to run a set for faster rezzes because honestly people shouldn't be dying to easy mechanics in the first place.

Maybe I'm used to more experienced groups but my main purpose as a healer is to squeeze in as much dmg as possible. The higher your group DPS is, the easier will the dungeon be (you can completely skip the Titan's fire rain for example). Kagrenac gives over 200 spell power in the 5 of bonus and some regen too so it's a good balance between sustain and dmg (and also stronger heals).

Makkir

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I dont have Kena which explains why I am running pledges the past 4 weeks in the first place.
I actually evolved from 5pm Kags to 5pc Maras. The 12% resto reduction was almost a no brainer. I don't want to run a set for faster rezzes because honestly people shouldn't be dying to easy mechanics in the first place.

Maybe I'm used to more experienced groups but my main purpose as a healer is to squeeze in as much dmg as possible. The higher your group DPS is, the easier will the dungeon be (you can completely skip the Titan's fire rain for example). Kagrenac gives over 200 spell power in the 5 of bonus and some regen too so it's a good balance between sustain and dmg (and also stronger heals).

No, you're right. But since I play at 3am EST or so I am forced to queue for pugs. Given that, most of the time they are subpar and I can't reliably swap to DPS for more than a few seconds without some idiot dying. I really easy "tard" check is to drop liquid lightning on adds. A good tank will keep the adds on your lightning pool, the tards will not.

A class heal would be great.

I ran with a great group last week and I was actually able to stay on my Destro bar like 75% of the time (I wore 5pc Kags and 3pc Arch Mage as I didn't bring my arsenal with me).

GilGalad

Makkir wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I dont have Kena which explains why I am running pledges the past 4 weeks in the first place.
I actually evolved from 5pm Kags to 5pc Maras. The 12% resto reduction was almost a no brainer. I don't want to run a set for faster rezzes because honestly people shouldn't be dying to easy mechanics in the first place.

Maybe I'm used to more experienced groups but my main purpose as a healer is to squeeze in as much dmg as possible. The higher your group DPS is, the easier will the dungeon be (you can completely skip the Titan's fire rain for example). Kagrenac gives over 200 spell power in the 5 of bonus and some regen too so it's a good balance between sustain and dmg (and also stronger heals).

No, you're right. But since I play at 3am EST or so I am forced to queue for pugs. Given that, most of the time they are subpar and I can't reliably swap to DPS for more than a few seconds without some idiot dying. I really easy "tard" check is to drop liquid lightning on adds. A good tank will keep the adds on your lightning pool, the tards will not.

A class heal would be great.

I ran with a great group last week and I was actually able to stay on my Destro bar like 75% of the time (I wore 5pc Kags and 3pc Arch Mage as I didn't bring my arsenal with me).

Yeah the problem is that the range between the players is so huuuge. If a group fails it's 90% of the time because the groups overall DPS is too low. A good tank will keep itself alive most of the time and provide buffs and CCs (war horn, boss debuffs, roots, etc). If the DPS know how to move you almost need no healer for the vet dungeons (excluding ICP and WGT), so the healer can deal dmg too. Some guild mates and me did elden hollow just with stamina players and healed with vigor and repentance (one or two random deaths).

altemriel

might be that you just ran into a player that thinks of himself he is a PRO and is behaving rude and mean to all beginners or (in his point of view) not-PROs. there are some people like that. I ran into one in a daily one day, we were beginners and we could not kill a boss in gold daily, he was pretty much rude to the group. it ended with one group member leaving the dungeon and then the rude guy left too. I have put him into ignore list and send him a warning letter, that if he is going to behave next time like that, I am going to report him.

happens sometime

Xeven

Stop sending me warning letters you NOOB!

LadyNalcarya

Yeah, ofc, its always the healer's fault...
In any case, dying on every trash/boss pull is not normal and usually means that a person stands in red all the time and doesnt block heavy-hitting stuff like wrecking blows. Also low dps significantly lowers group suvivability, and honestly, not all dds who are blaming healers and tanks can fulfill their role.
You setup looks fine, but I would've thrown some illustrous healing into the mix, just in case. Speaking of the gear, 5 pieces spell power cure is the best option, if you're lucky.

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

Gil.Galad wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I dont have Kena which explains why I am running pledges the past 4 weeks in the first place.
I actually evolved from 5pm Kags to 5pc Maras. The 12% resto reduction was almost a no brainer. I don't want to run a set for faster rezzes because honestly people shouldn't be dying to easy mechanics in the first place.

Maybe I'm used to more experienced groups but my main purpose as a healer is to squeeze in as much dmg as possible. The higher your group DPS is, the easier will the dungeon be (you can completely skip the Titan's fire rain for example). Kagrenac gives over 200 spell power in the 5 of bonus and some regen too so it's a good balance between sustain and dmg (and also stronger heals).

No, you're right. But since I play at 3am EST or so I am forced to queue for pugs. Given that, most of the time they are subpar and I can't reliably swap to DPS for more than a few seconds without some idiot dying. I really easy "tard" check is to drop liquid lightning on adds. A good tank will keep the adds on your lightning pool, the tards will not.

A class heal would be great.

I ran with a great group last week and I was actually able to stay on my Destro bar like 75% of the time (I wore 5pc Kags and 3pc Arch Mage as I didn't bring my arsenal with me).

Yeah the problem is that the range between the players is so huuuge. If a group fails it's 90% of the time because the groups overall DPS is too low. A good tank will keep itself alive most of the time and provide buffs and CCs (war horn, boss debuffs, roots, etc). If the DPS know how to move you almost need no healer for the vet dungeons (excluding ICP and WGT), so the healer can deal dmg too. Some guild mates and me did elden hollow just with stamina players and healed with vigor and repentance (one or two random deaths).

This.
And yeah, 3-manning most of vet dungeons without a healer is not that hard, if the dps is good.

EgoRush

I have overused this image on these forums, but if the glove fits...send this to that NB if he gives you issues again. If you've healed it without issue before then it's likely an issue with the group synergy and the DDs standing in the red too much. Also, a NB dying too much? If he's magicka then that's a L2P issue on his part; we have magicka NBs who can overheal the Serpent's poison phase in Sanctum Ophidia without support from healers just from doing DPS...

Vyle_Byte

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yeah, ofc, its always the healer's fault...
In any case, dying on every trash/boss pull is not normal and usually means that a person stands in red all the time and doesnt block heavy-hitting stuff like wrecking blows. Also low dps significantly lowers group suvivability, and honestly, not all dds who are blaming healers and tanks can fulfill their role.

QFT.

Was totally about to say something to this effect lol! In this case OP, doesnt sound like you were at fault. Sounds a little more like you were just runnin with idiots.

Glaiceana

I don't think you did anything wrong. Considering how many times he managed to die, I think he was just looking for someone to blame. Don't instantly question yourself because of a few whispers Just remember, it could be just a little kid raging in his bedroom xD It happens.

Prabooo

Makkir wrote: »

As a Sorc healer, I am running the following set up on my resto bar

This is your main problem. Templar is the best healing class by far, a resto staff won't do the work specially for vet dungeons.

Sorcerers make good healers. Templars make great healer (quoting a fellow forum member).

Young_Archiebold

The worst is when you gotta come up out yourself to yell at people like "FIRE IS BAD! STAY OUT OF IT!"

Van_0S

Makkir wrote: »

All v16s, group had a nightblade who literally died on every pull (trash and bosses), and our group fell apart after about 20 attempts on the Titan boss. This same nightblade died every single fire rain storm the boss cast. When we fell apart, he sent me a few whispers telling me I sucked, my heals sucked too, and that he survived more than I did. I had two deaths on this boss and both times the other 2 dps both ran to me during the fire rain and we all just insta-died.

As a Sorc healer, I am running the following set up on my resto bar
Rapid Regen, Healing Ward, Harness Majicka and Hard Ward (for this particular boss), and Conversion

I also run Ele Drain, B Storm, Crit Surge, and some other buffs where I can on my Destro Bar.

I run 5pc Maras, 3pc Willpower, and the rest is Kagrenac's Hope...and Legendary. I am running the Crit& mundus stone and sit at about 290 CPs

This particular boss ALWAYS makes some sort of comment before he casts the fire rain. This is my cue to reapply shields and boundless storm and then spam the hell out of healing ward.

Of the many attempts I have made and completed this boss in CoA, I have never caused my group to die. I have cleared this boss a few times already in the past. I don't know what else to do outside of what I listed above. I feel like putting more resto spells would be a waste of space and a waste of a cooldown. I feel like this phase of the fight is just dancing around the red circles and spamming healing ward. I also feel, although I did not verbally express it, that this nightblade was just bad and had horrible situational awareness.

Keep in mind, I am only about 4 weeks into PvE now as I have spent all my prior time in Cyrodiil. I raided 10 years in WoW so I do have an idea how they work and to not stand in fire. I feel I have progressed quite a bit since my first day stepping into vets. I am just curious if I had done anything wrong based on what I listed above?

What's wrong? It is the unnecessary nerf towards templars, by ZOS!!!

Slurg

Was the person who complained a stage 4 vampire with no fire resist anything, by chance? There seems to be a disproportionate number of those.

Some DPS players expect the healer and the tank to handle everything for them infinitely with bottomless resources while they themselves ineffectually slap at the boss for a very long time because they don't actually have enough damage output to call themselves true DPS. But that sure doesn't seem to stop them blaming everyone except themselves.

If people who appear to know what they're doing tell you that you're doing fine, or at the very least don't tell you that you suck, I wouldn't take the frustration of that one person who can't even survive through any trash mobs seriously.

Makkir

Prabooo wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

As a Sorc healer, I am running the following set up on my resto bar

This is your main problem. Templar is the best healing class by far, a resto staff won't do the work specially for vet dungeons.

Sorcerers make good healers. Templars make great healer (quoting a fellow forum member).

Ill be quite honest, with the exception to maybe the vet IC dungeons vets are pretty much easy when with a decent group. I don't think there should be any in depth discussions between resto staff healers and a templars healer when doing vets as either is just fine when considering a decent group that doesn't stand in fire.

You want to talk about trials when they were current, then yeah I think the number crunching and min/max'ing is probably bit more important.

Beruge

You could try the law of Julianos set since it got additional spell critical. 4 pieces to get all the crits, 5 pieces if u want the spell damage aswell. Wich should be very good for a sorcerer.

Prabooo

Makkir wrote: »

I don't think there should be any in depth discussions between resto staff healers and a templars healer when doing vets as either is just fine when considering a decent group that doesn't stand in fire.

Of course there shouldnt be any discussion at all about this subject...

Templars have a whole skill line dedicated to healing.

Sorcs DO NOT.

There, we did not even had to start a discussion.

Ariisen

Honestly speaking when a group fails vet COA at the Ash Titan is 90% the DPSes fault (unless the tank dies in the first 30 seconds)

The boss shouldn't spit more than once between the start of the fight and the first atro evocation, then he shouldn't ever spit again. If he does, the group lacks DPS.

So, not your fault IMHO.

LadyNalcarya

Prabooo wrote: »

Makkir wrote: »

I don't think there should be any in depth discussions between resto staff healers and a templars healer when doing vets as either is just fine when considering a decent group that doesn't stand in fire.

Of course there shouldnt be any discussion at all about this subject...

Templars have a whole skill line dedicated to healing.

Sorcs DO NOT.

There, we did not even had to start a discussion.

Nbs also dont have a dedicated skill line for healing. But once I did vDarkshade with 3 nb dds (2-manned until the netch, then invited a guildie who was looking for a helmet).
You dont need much heals if the dps is decent.

Rune_Relic

I don't think you are the problem either.
I'd ask the other player to evaluate his own ability TBH and his expectations/reliance.

You need a long term group to buddy up with.
Then you can learn what each other can provide and not provide and compensate individually to allow for that.
You cant do that with a one off PUG.
That DPS player would probably never find a long term group as he'd be kicked.
You shouldn't have a problem.

eliisra

When you play all roles regularly, you get better at identifying who's fault it is when someone dies or you wipe. In CoA it's pretty much always the dps fault when you wipe on bosses lol. Every single boss fail, tends to lead back to bad dps, doing something wrong or not doing enough dmg.

Take the NB dying on trash, maybe he ignored blocking or stepping/dodge out of ground dmg? You kinda need to perma block until the tank has full control over trash, takes a few seconds after engaging.

Could also have been the tank not taunting the right things. Some of those Daedra NPC's can oneshot squishy dps. While the tank cant aggro everything, he should at least be able to hold the worse 3-4 hard-hitters clued on him.

If you have to heal spam and cant do anything else on trash pulls and bosses, it's something wrong with your team mates seriously.

Healers should never have to only heal, they should have time to help with resource management and do some off-dps. This is why sorcs are awesome and favoured over templar healers by many endgame groups, because you really dont need that much healing (good tanks can keep themselves up and good dps aren't taking much dmg). So they want the healer with the highest potential dps.

baratron

Healing is my favourite role in this game, and I actually have a Healer in every class. I play my Sorcerer Healer most.

A lot of people believe that Templars make the best Healers. I won't deny that Templars are the only class who can easily restore Stamina along with HP, and that Breath of Life is a fantastic spell. However, I believe that it's not so much that the Templar class is the best so much as that it's easy to heal with a Templar. You don't need any particular skill.

Templars heal in response to damage. Breath of Life, Lingering Ritual and so on are heals that you cast after someone has taken damage. BoL is often referred to as an "oh ***" button because of the way it can restore someone to almost full health. Repentance is amazing for its free heal to both HP and Stamina. All of the standard Templar heals are things that you cast in the middle or at the end of the battle.

Whereas Restoration Staff heals tend to be heals over time: Healing Springs and its morphs, Rapid Regeneration/Mutagen, Healing Ward... All of these are spells that you have to cast before someone has taken damage. In other words, you have to be aware of incoming damage and start to heal before it even hits.

Sorcerers are supposed to be the worst Healers. Not only do we not have Breath of Life, but we don't even have Igneous Shield to shield our allies and give ourselves the Major Mending buff, or the Siphoning line of Nightblades. However, our ability to self-shield means that we can keep ourselves alive way beyond our normal HP range - and if the Healer is alive, then they're able to keep everyone else alive too. But a lot of players aren't experienced enough with the different classes to realise this. They're just "you're a Sorc, you can't heal".

You may have fallen foul of a combination of someone who believes that Sorc Healers suck and who also needs to learn2play. Seriously, I don't remember the last time that someone died to the Ash Titan who wasn't patently standing in the fire without a shield up. I've run Vet CoA several times this week because I found a couple of good DPSes, and my Vampire friend survives it quite perfectly well with my Sorcerer healing!

There are a few things you can do to make your PUG groups go more smoothly. Firstly, ask everyone if they have level-appropriate blue/purple food before you start. With Wrothgar, there is now no need for people to go without a Max Health bonus if they prefer to use Magicka or Stamina Regen, since the Orzorga foods provide Max Health plus Regen of some sort. I generally have stacks of both v15 blue foods: Max Health + Max Magicka and Max Health + Max Stamina, plus Orzorga Max Health + Magicka Regen on me which I'll hand out for free to players who need it. (Not quite generous enough to walk around with Orzorga Max Health + Stamina Regen considering that thing includes Columbine - honestly, what were they thinking?!).

Also, if you're on PC or Mac, run FTC. Most people know of this addon for its ability to provide a DPS counter, but it also has a wonderful panel for healers which shows people's HP, whether they have a shield cast, and how much extra mitigation is provided by that shield. It is so much more useful than the official game UI that I basically can't play without it. It also allows me to yell at people when their food has run out.

Honestly, I doubt you did anything wrong, but at least if you have FTC you can see for certain if someone's trying to run a v16 dungeon with 18k HP and no shields .

Seedier

Have to agree with comments above, although i've only healed on my templar so far, which is fine for PUGs. Sounds like DPS was an unpleasant person with chip on shoulder to compensate for a sadly far-from-unique inability to heed game mechanics... and yes FTC is great add-on for healers, get it!

The inability to heed game mechanics is i think to a large extent bred by the game which allows people to advance indefinitely on single-player basis; when then getting bored and joining groups they are essentially joining a new world not understanding the tank/dps/heal synergies that most dedicated MMO players are utterly familiar with...

qwyksylver

Don't beat yourself up, not sure whether that NB was mag or stam but both should be able to stand without a healer for at least a bit even in dungeon boss fights. Sounds like you just had a bad/unpleasant player with you. It's not hard to move out of red and on my NB I can pull 10k HPS while dpsing....