An accidental test of the "No VR system"

WldKarde

I didn't mean too (honest), but it seams I inadvertently tested what could be our future in ESO.

I have 2 accounts for ESO, one is almost at CP max, and the second one was sitting at zero CP's.

With the launch of Orsinium, I decided to create a new Orc character so I could enjoy the new content through his eyes. I'm far from new to this game, and I know how to level a new character from 1-50 quite fast. So it was off to the races for "WldKarde's Bacon" a few weeks ago!

But then a strange thing happened after I hit VR1. It almost seemed as though the sky opened up, and it began RAINING Champion points!
Oh, that's right, it's the new "catch up" thing that was introduced... almost forgot about that.

I had set a goal of being at least VR14 before I would begin "Bacon's" return to his homeland, but again a strange thing hit me.
He is now VR12 with 177 Champ points...and he just finished Cadwell's silver...WHAT?

If I'm to understand the new "possible" future of ESO, then my new Orc (and ALL characters who follow on this account) will be able to equip ALL Armour and Weapons that are available?!?! Sure I realize that the bar will go up at some point, but really?

I'm an altoholic, but even for me this seems a bit too much.
Check my sig and you'll see that I have put in my time through Silver an Gold...but this seems like the other extreme.

I get that people don't want to do the whole "grind to max level" every time they want to try another race/class/build, but this seems like zero to hero (minus the player's skill of course).


So I now have a Character above the "proposed" 160 champ point threshold on my second account...does this mean that the other "possible" 7 characters who might follow will go from "zero to hero" between level 49 and 50?


What am I missing?

Ackwalan

The higher level gear will require a higher cp. So instead of gear requiring a VR16 character to equip it, that same gear will require a cp of 450, or what ever cap is put on it. The VR grind is just going to change to a cp grind for higher level gear. Nothing is really changing, except the color of the smoke and mirror.

MrDerrikk

It really is a matter of once you have that magical 160CP, you'll be able to equip (current) max level armor on all of your chars over/at lvl50. From there it's just the normal stat progression until you hit the CP cap of the time.

Jitterbug

Ackwalan wrote: »

The higher level gear will require a higher cp. So instead of gear requiring a VR16 character to equip it, that same gear will require a cp of 450, or what ever cap is put on it. The VR grind is just going to change to a cp grind for higher level gear. Nothing is really changing, except the color of the smoke and mirror.

But you only have to do each CP once. You had to the vrs every time.

Catblade

It's not until later on that it's going to be a huge grind. Right now were all like 160cp? Yup got that easy. But in reality they can't make it too easy or people will lose interest and leave, so they blow smoke and mirrors and hope no one notices until its too late. CP will cost more to gain the more you have. They act like 10 cp= 1 vet level but in reality I've only earned 4 to 5 max per vet lvl.

MakTheEater

Jitterbug wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

The higher level gear will require a higher cp. So instead of gear requiring a VR16 character to equip it, that same gear will require a cp of 450, or what ever cap is put on it. The VR grind is just going to change to a cp grind for higher level gear. Nothing is really changing, except the color of the smoke and mirror.

But you only have to do each CP once. You had to the vrs every time.

But that annoying grind that most of the users don't want (and that made lots of users quit the game) is still there. Why can't they understand that people don't want to grind for armors in the end game? That grind is only there to hide the lack of content (you can say that it's shorter and account based, but it's still an unnecessary and annoying grind). Usually you have to beat a boss to get a new equip to beat a stronger boss. Here we have "Kill 999999999999 mobs/complete 16845646 quests to get the last armor". And people wonder why MMO like WoW or GW have more users than ESO. I love the game, but Zen's ineptitude made me quit the game.

Turelus

Ackwalan wrote: »

The higher level gear will require a higher cp. So instead of gear requiring a VR16 character to equip it, that same gear will require a cp of 450, or what ever cap is put on it. The VR grind is just going to change to a cp grind for higher level gear. Nothing is really changing, except the color of the smoke and mirror.

This. It's the same thing with a different name. Worse than that is there are already players who went beyond the point in which the catch up mechanic helps, so when gear levels reach that tier they'll be fine as they ground their 800 CP when it only cost 400k per CP, everyone else will be doing a grind worse than VR ranks to get access to that new gear.

This is an extreme case of course, but especially it's true to what will eventually happen. 1 VR level = 780k (or whatever it is now) 10 CP levels (if they went up in tens for gear levels) ... a damn lot more than that after the 400 CP mark.

Brrrofski

It'll create more of a level gap.

You need 501 CP to wear said armor.

Person A has 501. He has 501 CP to spend and can equip said armor.

Person B has 174. He has only 174 CP to spend and can only wear rubbish gear.

Ummm... I don't see the balance there.

Qyrk

Brrrofski wrote: »

It'll create more of a level gap.

You need 501 CP to wear said armor.

Person A has 501. He has 501 CP to spend and can equip said armor.

Person B has 174. He has only 174 CP to spend and can only wear rubbish gear.

Ummm... I don't see the balance there.

Hrm... It will only be viable if the 'said armor' is the only set viable for end game and indeed, it will leave a gap. But considering how current end game sets are a mixture of old and new (crafted and dropped gear), it's pretty early and hyperbolic to say that you need max CP to be competitive (once they remove VR). Let's just see what concrete plans they bring up with (and yes, rich's post is subject to change).

The Uninvited

Additional Details:
We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Nothing to worry about.

willymchilybily

where is it stated new armor will be set at CP CAP? or 450CP?
im guessing people are just assuming that is whats going to happen? opposed to the trend +2VR (+20CP) VR18 = 180CP

Yes OP it is easy to rank up to the current cap. Which is something players that dont like to quest and grind and would rather do to be able to PvP.

You still have armor/farming required caps i expect. can you do vWGT vPrison at V16 in blue/purple V14 gear?
i think progress will be through gear grinds in the future not CP grinds, but thats just my thoughts on how they will impliment the progression outside of CP.

Tankqull

the entire idea to connect sets to CP points is stupid.

just imagine a player invited to take a look into ESO his inviting friend made him a seducer armor to help with the lowlvling as he was used too.

but oh poor lvl 20 cant wear it as seducer requieres 20CPs wich is not much in the scheme of 3600... but impossible for that poor lvl 20...
if they at all connect sth to the CPs its the stat values of equipment but than why rename the existing system at all?

Qyrk

willymchilybily wrote: »

where is it stated new armor will be set at CP CAP? or 450CP?
im guessing people are just assuming that is whats going to happen? opposed to the trend +2VR (+20CP) VR18 = 180CP

It is currently the proposed changes when veteran ranks are removed. It has been mentioned in the forums last week (?). Essentially they are turning VR ranks to CP points and in terms of armor past VR levels, it is proposed to have certain CP in order to equip it.

Please be mindful that this is a proposal and subject to change. We won't know the concrete plans until later.

Ruben

Tankqull wrote: »

the entire idea to connect sets to CP points is stupid.

just imagine a player invited to take a look into ESO his inviting friend made him a seducer armor to help with the lowlvling as he was used too.

but oh poor lvl 20 cant wear it as seducer requieres 20CPs wich is not much in the scheme of 3600... but impossible for that poor lvl 20...
if they at all connect sth to the CPs its the stat values of equipment but than why rename the existing system at all?

Levels 1-50 will still exist. CPs will only be linked to lvl 50+ equipment.

The Uninvited

Qyrk wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

where is it stated new armor will be set at CP CAP? or 450CP?
im guessing people are just assuming that is whats going to happen? opposed to the trend +2VR (+20CP) VR18 = 180CP

It is currently the proposed changes when veteran ranks are removed. It has been mentioned in the forums last week (?). Essentially they are turning VR ranks to CP points and in terms of armor past VR levels, it is proposed to have certain CP in order to equip it.

Please be mindful that this is a proposal and subject to change. We won't know the concrete plans until later.

It was also proposed that everyone would still be able to equip their current gear. V16 is roughly 160CP, so cap for armor won't be over 160CP I guess.

And with the catch-up in place, you will have those CP in no time.
.

Xendyn

Qyrk wrote: »

willymchilybily wrote: »

where is it stated new armor will be set at CP CAP? or 450CP?
im guessing people are just assuming that is whats going to happen? opposed to the trend +2VR (+20CP) VR18 = 180CP

It is currently the proposed changes when veteran ranks are removed. It has been mentioned in the forums last week (?). Essentially they are turning VR ranks to CP points and in terms of armor past VR levels, it is proposed to have certain CP in order to equip it.

Please be mindful that this is a proposal and subject to change. We won't know the concrete plans until later.

But those current plans are, according to Rich:

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Also:

To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

MakTheEater

It is currently the proposed changes when veteran ranks are removed. It has been mentioned in the forums last week (?). Essentially they are turning VR ranks to CP points and in terms of armor past VR levels, it is proposed to have certain CP in order to equip it.

Please be mindful that this is a proposal and subject to change. We won't know the concrete plans until later.

But those current plans are, according to Rich:

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Also:

To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

The problem is this. We may not have 501CP requirement now, but it may not the the case for the next DLC. And people that didn't start playing before then must do a even worse grind.

kupacmac

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>

No they won't go from 160CP to 400+ for the next gear set. They already stated that won't happen.

Since CP is shared for your whole account, you only have to play one character for all of your characters who are above 49 to advance. No other MMO does this. When WoW raises the level cap, you have to play all of your characters to get them back to cap.

Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

Xendyn

MakTheEater wrote: »

It is currently the proposed changes when veteran ranks are removed. It has been mentioned in the forums last week (?). Essentially they are turning VR ranks to CP points and in terms of armor past VR levels, it is proposed to have certain CP in order to equip it.

Please be mindful that this is a proposal and subject to change. We won't know the concrete plans until later.

But those current plans are, according to Rich:

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Also:

To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

The problem is this. We may not have 501CP requirement now, but it may not the the case for the next DLC. And people that didn't start playing before then must do a even worse grind.

And that's what the catch-up mechanic is for.

MakTheEater

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

Xendyn

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

I repeat.
Catch up mechanic. Did you miss the part in the OP where he said

wldkarde wrote: »

But then a strange thing happened after I hit VR1. It almost seemed as though the sky opened up, and it began RAINING Champion points!
Oh, that's right, it's the new "catch up" thing that was introduced... almost forgot about that.

I had set a goal of being at least VR14 before I would begin "Bacon's" return to his homeland, but again a strangs thing hit me.
He is now VR12 with 177 Champ points...and he just finished Cadwell's silver...WHAT?

MakTheEater

Xendyn wrote: »

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

I repeat.
Catch up mechanic. Did you miss the part in the OP where he said

wldkarde wrote: »

But then a strange thing happened after I hit VR1. It almost seemed as though the sky opened up, and it began RAINING Champion points!
Oh, that's right, it's the new "catch up" thing that was introduced... almost forgot about that.

I had set a goal of being at least VR14 before I would begin "Bacon's" return to his homeland, but again a strangs thing hit me.
He is now VR12 with 177 Champ points...and he just finished Cadwell's silver...WHAT?

Do you think that when the cap will be raised, going from CP1000 to CP1001 will be the same as going from CP1 to CP2?

Tors

What do you guys expect?

To do away with VR levels so that a level 50 can wear the same gear as my current VR 16?

Really?


If you just want to play a game with equal templates for all players, then MMORPGs are not the type of game for you.

The very basic idea behind a game like this is the progression of the character, the improovement of that character.

This improovement can be denoted by levels, skills or whatever basically time spent and actions completed = player power.

The idea that a new character should have the same power as an older player kills any want to progress.


Someone said that WoW was "better" because you dont have to grind for armour. This made me laugh. A while ago, whilst arguing against changing the current system I told you that the only alternative was a system likes WoWs.

Well your getting it, check out all the BoP now in game. This will only get worse.

Enjoy, because you have trashed one of the strongest aspects of ESO, the choice I loved in armour is gone replaced by a "meh grind-fest" like the games i DONT play.

Qyrk

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

There is a catch up mechanic mate. Once they raise it again, they will make it easier to go from 0 to *nxt CP max* again for NEW players and the exp will be readjusted.

Xendyn

MakTheEater wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

I repeat.
Catch up mechanic. Did you miss the part in the OP where he said

wldkarde wrote: »

But then a strange thing happened after I hit VR1. It almost seemed as though the sky opened up, and it began RAINING Champion points!
Oh, that's right, it's the new "catch up" thing that was introduced... almost forgot about that.

I had set a goal of being at least VR14 before I would begin "Bacon's" return to his homeland, but again a strangs thing hit me.
He is now VR12 with 177 Champ points...and he just finished Cadwell's silver...WHAT?

Do you think that when the cap will be raised, going from CP1000 to CP1001 will be the same as going from CP1 to CP2?

I expect that when the cap is raised, the system kicks back into gear for those that don't have stockpiled CP waiting, yes.

MakTheEater

Qyrk wrote: »

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

There is a catch up mechanic mate. Once they raise it again, they will make it easier to go from 0 to *nxt CP max* again for NEW players and the exp will be readjusted.

If going from CP1000 to CP1001 will require the same experience as CP1 to CP2 then they should have just lowered the exp needed to reach the new VR from 1000k-850k to 200k.

shugg

I dont think there off down the gear score root which is the cp = higher gear , what about if they make yhe stats on gear scale with cp this way uou can keep the gear but still feal the impacr. Both have the same result at 501 cp but only one option is more player freindly .

I could be way off though, its just cp as a gear score would do more damage than good

MrDerrikk

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

I was looking for the post I read today about a guy who got over the 160CP mark before he got to VR12 even on a new account, but then I found out that it was this post...did you even read the OP?

Slurg

Sounds like the catch-up mechanic for new players is working as designed.

Is there anything you people won't moan and complain about?

Qyrk

MakTheEater wrote: »

Qyrk wrote: »

MakTheEater wrote: »

kupacmac wrote: »

So much misinformation floating around about this. <sigh>
Here's something else nobody is mentioning - you can earn CP above the gear cap NOW. So when they do introduce new gear with a higher CP requirement, you'll already be there... on every character. You can't do that with VR levels. Good riddance VR.

I repeat. That will be only for users that already played. New users will always have more and more grind every time every time the cap is raised. And so the problem is still here.

There is a catch up mechanic mate. Once they raise it again, they will make it easier to go from 0 to *nxt CP max* again for NEW players and the exp will be readjusted.

If going from CP1000 to CP1001 will require the same experience as CP1 to CP2 then they should have just lowered the exp needed to reach the new VR from 1000k-850k to 200k.

When you make comparisons like that, I don't know whether to chuckle or take it seriously. If you're serious, then of course that won't happen, but the fact of matter is, it will be adjusted to make it easier for new players. YOU or I will NOT know the specifics of this exp scaling coming next CP max until they tell us. By making arguments based on hyperbole is not an argument, it's just brandishing to make yours valid. Read your comment again since while we won't know how the exp will scale for next CP catch up, you and I most likely will agree that getting from CP1000 to CP1001 will not be the same as getting CP1

MrGigglypants

Mmo's require progression stop asking for max level on day 3 .obi wan was not made in a day neither will a max level BiS max cp character new players should have to complete previous content to do the new content anyway.