Mathematical Analysis of Vet Ranks to CP change

willymchilybily

So i like many have seen the proposed change, and in trying to ally fears i kind of got to looking at the maths, and was a little concerned. Please DO NOT go into nerd QQ rage. This is not set in stone! but it IS important to ask some pertinent questions so the Devs can develop the system in a way that is not deterimental to new players.

so here is what i make of it:
Ryan Ruzich wrote:

ZOS_RyanRuzich wrote: »

((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.95)) + 0.08) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.

RAGUNAnoOne wrote:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

one of the first questions that is kind of important is this. Assuming a system where rank 49 goes direct to VR1 as it does now, will rank 50 count as VR1 and 10 champion points give you access to VR 2 gear? this is important because the later champion points requirement to progress 10 CP is actually quite a bit more than a VR level. As such it could be the difference between another 2 million XP to use current end game gear.

now based on the affore mentioned formala we can make a Raw comparison, but before you lose your minds remember two things:

1. This Does Not Account for Enlightenment.
2. CP is spread across ALL characters once you reach CP level with one character you reach it with any alts you have that have hit VR levels so in some ways this is the XP required to level up one character, but also the XP required to level up 8 characters from VR1-VR16

Xp comparison 10xCP Vs Vet Level

Cumalative XP Comparison

Now what i draw from this is.
BAD

• if you are new and have on character you are levelling. It will take you 41% longer to Reach the level gap the grind is actually Increased
• The last ranks going from V14 to V16 is actually 21% of the total time to level equivalent to over 4 of the current Veteran ranks, I would cry if i was new.

GOOD

• Champion points carry across All characters, once you reach the max level on one character, you also reach it on every character above rank 49. Therefore this isn't Just the XP to level one character, but actually the XP to level 8 Characters
• Existing Players can level an alt just by reaching level 50, this can bring alot of life for old players who always wanted to try class X or Y but the grind was too much,
• Alts being readily available makes Bind on Pickup gear actually not so bad. Just need to get rid of well fitted now
• a casual who only levels when they have enlightenment can hit max level at 1/3rd of the XP cost that you have now (4.25m XP vs 12.75m XP)

summary:
The current proposal is discouraging fast progression to max level for new players, and has made the mountain even more daunting. but for existing players this change is very exciting for creating alts.


PROPOSAL TO PREVENT PUTTING OFF NEW PLAYERS!
When this is introduced....raise the CP level cap to at least 801. Why 801? because firstly its divisible by 3 and more importantly it means the XP required to reach VR16 and to reach 160 CP is equivalent. (and every further level cap shift if chosen correctly will actually keep the progression from being so daunting for new players. In fact with the current catch up mechanic every new CP cap raise will make the game even more approachable for new players...and it seems like a pretty fantastic system if the CP caps are chosen smartly.

Well that was simple

So now i realise this.... I'm kind of thinking. Actually this is going to be quite a kick A** system. and i cant wait to try it out and make a few more alts, and maybe just maybe there are some smart people working for the ZOS development team, and there are still a few lights on and cogs turning, makes me even dare i say it a little hopeful.

feel free to comment, sorry if the values i used are incorrect. or changed, but the concept is unchanged.

Celas_Dranacea

Have you factored in daily enlightenment?

willymchilybily

Celas_Dranacea wrote: »

Have you factored in daily enlightenment?

willymchilybily wrote: »

now based on the affore mentioned formala we can make a Raw comparison, but before you lose your minds remember two things:

1. This Does Not Account for Enlightenment.

Neither daily, nor the first 12 enlightenment you get from when you first hit your first VR

Yattaq

Enlightenment being essentially a free 300k xp every day is definitely a huge factor here. Also the formula for CP XP has changed, this was the most recent one:

((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.

acw37162

So if I understand your math and charts by raising the Max CP you can adjust the time it takes max level from 0 to be less and once your reach level 50 alts become not only viable but actually quite simple to maintain?

This sounds almost to true good to be a suytem that reduces level grinding time and promotes having a stable of different character to experience the game with without requiring massive time sinks.

A little excited

Paulington

It's not 41% extra XP.

VR 1 --> VR16 = 12,750,000 XP.
CP 1 --> CP 160 = ~16,000,000 XP.

Yes that is 25% more XP however, as @Celas_Dranacea said, factor in enlightenment. You earn the first 74 CP (4.8m XP worth) very quickly and then if you only earn enlightened XP it will be 28 days to hit "VR16" in CP. In reality most people do more than that and will likely be CP 160 very quickly and they only have to do it once.

Elijah_Crow

Very well done. However, your note here:

a casual who only levels when they have enlightenment can hit max level at 1/3rd of the XP cost that you have now (4.25m XP vs 12.75m XP)


I think that more than makes up for any need to increase the cap. VR1 to VR16 already takes 1/3 less xp (through questing) than the old VR1 to VR14 prior to IC release. Now with enlightenment getting to "CP Gear Cap" will not be a grind for those just playing the game and enjoying it. It will only feel like a grind for those trying to do it in record time.

I'm good with that.

willymchilybily

Yattaq wrote: »

Enlightenment being essentially a free 300k xp every day is definitely a huge factor here. Also the formula for CP XP has changed, this was the most recent one:

((TotalPoints / (Cap ^ 0.995)) + 0.085) * 400000, where Total Points is how many CP points you’ve earned.

Thanks. based on this and a 501 Cap the difference is far less daunting.

Paulington wrote: »

It's not 41% extra XP.

VR 1 --> VR16 = 12,750,000 XP.
CP 1 --> CP 160 = ~16,000,000 XP.

Yes that is 25% more XP however, as @Celas_Dranacea said, factor in enlightenment. You earn the first 74 CP (4.8m XP worth) very quickly and then if you only earn enlightened XP it will be 28 days to hit "VR16" in CP. In reality most people do more than that and will likely be CP 160 very quickly and they only have to do it once.

@Paulington - thanks for the feed back,
yes the maths comes out a lot better using the formula Yattaq mentions. The only one remaining concern would be with the tail end. if they introduce the CP conversion without adjusting the level cap anyone at V7 has a lot larger grind than they would otherwise, without the intial 4.8 mill enlightened bonus. (~10.9mil xp to reach max level, vs 7.65 mil) that is 42% more grind if they do not adjust the CP cap.