Fear for game turning into a gear grinder

Docmandu

When the game was released, we got a nice (albeit buggy) game where gear was attainable by everyone. Testing out gear sets was easy and cheap to do.
Then Trials were added, with new gear. No problem for people not into large scale PvE, since the items could be sold / traded. Alas that didn't stick long and the gear was made BoP.

Then monster sets were added, which at least for PvP, bring a clear power benefit. Takes some grinding, but it's 1-2 pieces.. mmmkay.

Next up IC hit.. suddenly creating a HUGE gap between VR15 vs VR16 in required resources and cost.. and creating a big grind to make / force people to play the content.. instead of making people play the content because it's fun to do. Trying / experimenting with gear is no longer an option for many people, due to cost and time involved.

Then orsinium... everything BoP (need people to buy this DLC afterall).. and hardcore PvE to get items that make a very clear improvement to PvP templates.

.. it's getting incrementally worse.. and then...


We got a sneak peek at what the removal of VR will bring. Gear based on CP requirement. Meaning people with higher CP who are already much stronger in PvP, will now also be able to get better gear making the gap even bigger!

I don't know about the rest of you, but as a mostly PvP player, I'm very worried about the direction the game is taking. I do some PvE every now and then to enjoy the content, but I prefer to spend most time in PvP and certainly not being forced to PvE to keep up in PvP!!

Saw a very good example of how bad the situation of CP and gear already is.. saw some duelling of @sypher yesterday on his EU account, and he basically got creamed as his EU account isn't as far ahead as his US account.. and don't think L2P is in order in this instance.

Game is too much going the direction of WoW imho... gear >>>>>> skill... and.. fun != gear

Turelus

Agreed.

Quote from my reply in another thread.

Turelus wrote: »

I just want a system where I have every item in the game available at my max level (50) and I can make choices on that gear to try interesting builds and concepts.

I would love to see diminished returns/soft caps make a return so the most viable option in the game is not "stack the most damage sets) and have the five set bonus becoming something people experiment with again. Sadly since the removal of caps every build is focused on the stacking of damage over hitting the cap then looking for an interesting set bonus to augment that.

I said it in another thread and will say it here again. In the first Guild Wars game the level cap was 20, and there was no grind for endgame gear beyond cosmetics. So I played the story, leveled up, then PvP'd to my hearts content with every month bringing new balance passes to skills. When new PvE content was released we would all go and play that for the new options in gear looks, new boss weapons which might augment our builds better etc.

That's the gameplay I dream of having back, not this constant grinding of levels, VR, CP just to use the latest expansion set because the gear I spent months grinding for in the last update now doesn't reach the highest level. There is a reason I use crafted gear, it's the fastest way to return to what I was without the BS of grinding for sets which are only implemented to make older ones pointless and make me chase the carrot one more time.

/endrant.

Wollust

Or maybe EU > NA ?

No but seriously, I get what you mean. The whole grind the game is putting us through is gettin frustrating. Not only for PvPers, but also for PvEers.
While I think it's good to have some sets BoP (like maelstrom and master weapons, monster and specific trials gear like vicious) because those are really special and should be earned accordingly, it's definitely not healthy having every single set BoP as Orsinium has done. But honestly, I don't have much hope left. I simply don't believe they'll see their mistakes and fix them. They (ZoS) seem to be too short sighted.

bertenburnyb16_ESO

The hope was that removing vr lvls was going to equalise the playing field more (except for cp ofc)
And remove the gear grind for minimal stat increase
Instead.... They make it worse..... Ugh

Tors

This is exactly what you are going to get/Have got.


Welcome to the latest World Of Warcraft clone.


From freedom and choice, a fantastic system that allowed people to pick and chose, playing any style they wanted to "meh"


From crafted gear being, at the very least, on a par with drops, to cvrafted gear just being a place holder till you get lucky with the RNG in 400 dungeons time.


zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

jeremiah911

I completely agree with your gear grind facts that you presented. I started playing ESO because I was able to focus on playing the game vs a gear grind that is so prevalent in many other MMOs.

However, I think the topic of CP needed to wear best gear is being overblown. You will not need to be at cap to wear best gear; from my interpretations you won't even need to be close to the 501 cap. Add in the catch up mechanic and I see very little grind if any.

Knootewoot

I also afraid of this. Already I struggle to keep up CP wise and after IC I still don't have that golden armor since I am broke (he but at least it's purple V16). And I got my mats from the guild, else I would run around in V15 armor. And I can never repay them because I want to PvP and not do PvE.

Maybe they should separate PvE and PvP completely. No CP's for PvP and only crafted gear and PvP obtainable gear. Just like the old days. And softcaps. And deer and torchbugs. And no lighting fix.

JamilaRaj

Wollust wrote: »

But honestly, I don't have much hope left. I simply don't believe they'll see their mistakes and fix them. They (ZoS) seem to be too short sighted.

These are not mistakes. Box sales have been nice source of revenue for the company, but as there is nothing left it could launch ESO on, sales will continue, but will not be nearly as massive. Revenue will have to be generated through the cash shop and DLCs (subs are basically just the cash shop and DLCs, with a few additional P2W elements thrown in). A sure-fire way to coerce players into buying DLC is to put some OP rewards in, which makes it attractive and older content obsolete at the same time. Then a sure-fire way to drive cash shop sales is to make these rewards only available after excessive amount of grind and offer some means in the cash shop to make it a bit more convenient (that is, after all, what ZOS has pledged the cash shop will be here for, right?).

ZOS could also just make the game fun and let players to give them money willingly, but the time is not right yet, the idea does not fit in. The mindest in the industry is that players have to be supplied with intricately awful games and then, through brutal coercion and scams, made pay anyway.

Sausage

Housing is the next grind after VR-removal, thats my guess anyway, they just confirmed housing a couple days back, that should keep them going like 6 month or so. In 2016 we grind houses! and we get seasonal CP-cap increase, whats relatively easy.

Volkodav

Sausage wrote: »

Housing is the next grind after VR-removal, thats my guess anyway, they just confirmed housing a couple days back, that should keep them going like 6 month or so. In 2016 we grind houses! and we get seasonal CP-cap increase, whats relatively easy.

If they make housing a grind to get,I wont grin to get one. Nor will I buy crowns to get a house ast 5,000 crowns.I'll just continue along my merry way playing and dumping trophys,or other cool stuff I have hoarded away in my bank.
What did they say about housing the other day when they confirmed it.Anything interesting? Hints?
:}

Sausage

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Housing is the next grind after VR-removal, thats my guess anyway, they just confirmed housing a couple days back, that should keep them going like 6 month or so. In 2016 we grind houses! and we get seasonal CP-cap increase, whats relatively easy.

If they make housing a grind to get,I wont grin to get one. Nor will I buy crowns to get a house ast 5,000 crowns.I'll just continue along my merry way playing and dumping trophys,or other cool stuff I have hoarded away in my bank.
What did they say about housing the other day when they confirmed it.Anything interesting? Hints?
:}

I believe housing is going to be the ultimate long term progression for all those who cant stop playing ESO whatever happens and thats fine, because housing should be quite harmless.

Volkodav

Sausage wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Housing is the next grind after VR-removal, thats my guess anyway, they just confirmed housing a couple days back, that should keep them going like 6 month or so. In 2016 we grind houses! and we get seasonal CP-cap increase, whats relatively easy.

If they make housing a grind to get,I wont grin to get one. Nor will I buy crowns to get a house ast 5,000 crowns.I'll just continue along my merry way playing and dumping trophys,or other cool stuff I have hoarded away in my bank.
What did they say about housing the other day when they confirmed it.Anything interesting? Hints?
:}

I believe housing is going to be the ultimate long term progression for all those who cant stop playing ESO whatever happens and thats fine, because housing should be quite harmless.

I hope so.I just wish they'd think about my option for homes.Bottle or pocket homes.How are they goungh to do it otherwise,unless the homes are instanced. I'm one of those who will enver stop playing ESO. Also,if the homes are like 2500 crowns,I wouldnt mind saving up for one.

oibam

A little bit grinding is okay...

Concept of Imperial City was good I think. Not too grindy.

But now with Orsinium...ZOS stop that. We want to play and not to grind.

Volkodav

oibam wrote: »

A little bit grinding is okay...

Concept of Imperial City was good I think. Not too grindy.

But now with Orsinium...ZOS stop that. We want to play and not to grind.

I love Orsinium.I dont grind at all.I play through the quests.

oibam

in IC you could trade the stuff, now you have to grind it by yourself...what if you only get Trinimac crap out of the daily quest rewards???

Sausage

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

WhiskeyRiver.AZub17_ESO wrote: »

Sausage wrote: »

Housing is the next grind after VR-removal, thats my guess anyway, they just confirmed housing a couple days back, that should keep them going like 6 month or so. In 2016 we grind houses! and we get seasonal CP-cap increase, whats relatively easy.

If they make housing a grind to get,I wont grin to get one. Nor will I buy crowns to get a house ast 5,000 crowns.I'll just continue along my merry way playing and dumping trophys,or other cool stuff I have hoarded away in my bank.
What did they say about housing the other day when they confirmed it.Anything interesting? Hints?
:}

I believe housing is going to be the ultimate long term progression for all those who cant stop playing ESO whatever happens and thats fine, because housing should be quite harmless.

I hope so.I just wish they'd think about my option for homes.Bottle or pocket homes.How are they goungh to do it otherwise,unless the homes are instanced. I'm one of those who will enver stop playing ESO. Also,if the homes are like 2500 crowns,I wouldnt mind saving up for one.

Bottle and pocket homes? What are those.

It might be good idea to start selling some houses/furnitures via Crown Store. Theres always gonna be those who take the easy walk, not to mention those who see housing as waste of time, basically hard to them motivated to grind it.

Artjuh90

jeremiah911 wrote: »

I completely agree with your gear grind facts that you presented. I started playing ESO because I was able to focus on playing the game vs a gear grind that is so prevalent in many other MMOs.

However, I think the topic of CP needed to wear best gear is being overblown. You will not need to be at cap to wear best gear; from my interpretations you won't even need to be close to the 501 cap. Add in the catch up mechanic and I see very little grind if any.

you are aware that they will increase best gear to cp cap not so really long from 21 dec.
it's only because they already get a *** over them that they realised that the community knows what they are doing and it won't work. when the community asked for removal of vet system they didn't ask a replacement. they wanted to do whatever they want at level 50 without penalty, so endgame starts at level 50 and everyone is on equal footing. there are enough MMOs with geargrinding to stay competitve. the difference was eso didn't have this at the start and made it feel more like tes. now they make the game more and more a grind which will shoot themself in the foot. cause there are MMOs who do things way beter, the beauty of eso was the openness no need to grind the best gear and the storytelling. the game is less open cause you need the latest DLC to grind gear to be competitive, every DLC makes a huge gap in damage making old gear being outclassed hard by new gear and after doing the story several times you don't really care reading the whole story anymore.

Malmai

Docmandu wrote: »

When the game was released, we got a nice (albeit buggy) game where gear was attainable by everyone. Testing out gear sets was easy and cheap to do.
Then Trials were added, with new gear. No problem for people not into large scale PvE, since the items could be sold / traded. Alas that didn't stick long and the gear was made BoP.

Then monster sets were added, which at least for PvP, bring a clear power benefit. Takes some grinding, but it's 1-2 pieces.. mmmkay.

Next up IC hit.. suddenly creating a HUGE gap between VR15 vs VR16 in required resources and cost.. and creating a big grind to make / force people to play the content.. instead of making people play the content because it's fun to do. Trying / experimenting with gear is no longer an option for many people, due to cost and time involved.

Then orsinium... everything BoP (need people to buy this DLC afterall).. and hardcore PvE to get items that make a very clear improvement to PvP templates.

.. it's getting incrementally worse.. and then...


We got a sneak peek at what the removal of VR will bring. Gear based on CP requirement. Meaning people with higher CP who are already much stronger in PvP, will now also be able to get better gear making the gap even bigger!

I don't know about the rest of you, but as a mostly PvP player, I'm very worried about the direction the game is taking. I do some PvE every now and then to enjoy the content, but I prefer to spend most time in PvP and certainly not being forced to PvE to keep up in PvP!!

Saw a very good example of how bad the situation of CP and gear already is.. saw some duelling of @sypher yesterday on his EU account, and he basically got creamed as his EU account isn't as far ahead as his US account.. and don't think L2P is in order in this instance.

Game is too much going the direction of WoW imho... gear >>>>>> skill... and.. fun != gear

This game become Chinese MMO Grinder with no respect for their players...