How do people 1vX?

Chims

I don't understand how a single player can kill me in 2-3 seconds getting off crystal frags 2 light attacks and a crushing shock all while being able to take dps from 4-5 people and never die.

How is it they are able to take so little damage while dealing so much? I understand they have hardened ward but how are they taking so little damage to the ward without casting it all the time?

Its not just sorcs its most people. what do they have to negate so much damage and how are they weaving so fast?

GilGalad

Chims wrote: »

I don't understand how a single player can kill me in 2-3 seconds getting off crystal frags 2 light attacks and a crushing shock all while being able to take dps from 4-5 people and never die.

How is it they are able to take so little damage while dealing so much? I understand they have hardened ward but how are they taking so little damage to the ward without casting it all the time?

Its not just sorcs its most people. what do they have to negate so much damage and how are they weaving so fast?

For the light attack weaving try to bind attack to your mouse wheel. For a sorcerer all you need to do is stack magicka and a bit spell dmg. since your shields scale of max magicka you can have better defense and offense at the same time. That's not only true for sorcs btw. A Templar or NB who is build for damage will also have stronger heals and shields. For DKs it's a bit different and more complicated, since they have different defensive tools (e.g. Reflective scales).

For stamina builds 1vsX is also nice because it doesn't make a difference if you dodge one or 10 attacks at the same time.

In general you can say the more experience you have it becomes more likely that you win a 1 vs X:
Know your class and your enemies, their builds, the environment (line of sight!), ...

I hope that helps a bit.

Angarato

sorcs dont have to sacrifice damage to gain defense, shields and heals through crits, its why they are number 1 in both pvp and PVE solo veteran maelstrom
2nd place being magicka nb for the same reason, altho less shields their damage spells heal them for quite alot.

for stam classes its just their pure damage output that can kill you. they have alot less survivablity however and a good CC or some clever teamwork and he'll drop like a fly

revonine

Angarato wrote: »

some clever teamwork and he'll drop like a fly

For emphasis. To 1vX you need alot of practice and need to know your class inside and out and also need top gear. However it doesn't matter how great a player a 1vx-er is, against an organised group they die very very quickly. Any of those vids you see on youtube are against unorganized opponents or PvE groups in the sewers.

But yes it is easier to 1vX on a Sorc. They're burst combos are potent, but one roll dodge will ruin it, blocking will reduce it down to nothing and it also depends on a frag proc. Also if you see them trying to cast Inevitable Detonation on you to start the combo get in their face and bash it. Cast time is long so there's a big window there.
What class do you play @Chims ?

Chims

I have a sorc, nb and templar all magicka based. The thing that annoys me is that I can stun them, knock them down but not be able to kill them in the same time frame.

raasdal

Chims wrote: »

I don't understand how a single player can kill me in 2-3 seconds getting off crystal frags 2 light attacks and a crushing shock all while being able to take dps from 4-5 people and never die.

How is it they are able to take so little damage while dealing so much? I understand they have hardened ward but how are they taking so little damage to the ward without casting it all the time?

Its not just sorcs its most people. what do they have to negate so much damage and how are they weaving so fast?

The correct answer to this question is;

He cannot - and nobody can.

Anyone - no matter if it be Sypher, Fengrush, LeftyLucy or any other famous 1vX'er, who goes up solo against an organized 5 man group, of good skill and coordination, will die almost immediately. If you see any of them in action, the thing to notice is the usage of LoS. THAT is how these people 1vX. When Sypher kills 7 people, he does it by making sure that there are never more than a couple of them that can hit him, and then he singles them out one by one, effectively making it a back-to-back series of 1v1's or maybe 1v2's.

If you where in a 5 man group, and got wiped by one person, then you did in fact NOT have 4-5 people DPS'ing that guy. You might think that you had, but you did not. Maybe it was a DK and everyone was spamming reflectable skills? Maybe half of your team was not doing anything but light attacks? Maybe he was cutting LoS so only 1 or 2 people were able to hit him at any given moment.

I have personally been able to do 1v2 and 1v3. When i do this, it is 100% because the people i am up against have no idea what they are doing. Mostly this happens in IC, going up agains PvE people. The healer will just stand there, and do nothing but heal, and hope his two DPS friends will get me. But they are using skills which i will negate by using my skills correctly.

It seems you are specifically asking about Sorcs. Sorcs with high CP can be REALLY difficult to take out, due to shielding. But they are not "magical" in the sense that they cannot deal damage, while healing or applying shields etc. So for your specific example, i will claim that the 4-5 guys doing "DPS" on that sorc, in fact where not doing anything. That would be my guess?

Ahzek

My number 1 advice for learning how to 1vX is to join a duel guild and practice regualry. Beware, you will get beaten down, a lot, but if you keep attention to why you are dieing, think about ways to counter it and then are not afraid to ask for advice from you fellow duellers you will make progress very quickly.
Quite a big part of being able to kill your oppontnts is also your gear and champion points. Dont expect to take someone down fast in your 7/7 heavy reactive armor setup or with all your CP allocared in blessed for more defense (that said blessed is a very strong star for all builds that are not magicka sorcs).

eliisra

You avoid decent players. That's it. One decent is all it takes for 1vX to be impossible.

For it to work you need to find a bunch of clueless guys, preferably low CP, PvE'ers, lower level, under geared, new players and so on. You also need to pull them to a perfect location, around a bridge or around houses for example, where you can kite and hide to pick them of. It's only star of the show that actually knows how to play in 1vX.

Still pretty baffled how people fail to understand this. Instead they go "omg nerf". Use your eyes instead maybe? See how helpless and inexperienced the opponents are(even if you're one of them and it hurts to admit lol).

Even when some dude is destroying jailbaits, lower lever VR's that dont know how to break cc or just kinda stands there and panics, it's like "good stuff man". Not saying there's no skill involved or lacking entertainment value, but people really need to start seeing 1vX for what it really is, stomping newbies.

Olen_Mikko

1vX takes lot of skills, no matter who you opponents are. Ofc noobs makes it lot easier.

I consider me and my fellow guildies good players. Better than decent, but maybe not among the best and still i know bunch of talented 1vX - players that can kill us, if we are not in TS.

Millerman34n

It's called you have a good build and know how to play the game! Sorry I'm assuming ur not vet 16 and newer to the game u will learn in time if u need build advice msg me. I have a vet 16 of each class and I can 1vx with all of them.

timidobserver

Spend 3 hours getting rekt by zergs. Build 8 minute video of the few times you were not Rekt by zergs.

Jitterbug

Gil.Galad wrote: »

line of sight!

Your whole post was good, but it's mostly this ^

Also, you gotta know when to hold em and know when to fold em

Minno

eliisra wrote: »

You avoid decent players. That's it. One decent is all it takes for 1vX to be impossible.

For it to work you need to find a bunch of clueless guys, preferably low CP, PvE'ers, lower level, under geared, new players and so on. You also need to pull them to a perfect location, around a bridge or around houses for example, where you can kite and hide to pick them of. It's only star of the show that actually knows how to play in 1vX.

Still pretty baffled how people fail to understand this. Instead they go "omg nerf". Use your eyes instead maybe? See how helpless and inexperienced the opponents are(even if you're one of them and it hurts to admit lol).

Even when some dude is destroying jailbaits, lower lever VR's that dont know how to break cc or just kinda stands there and panics, it's like "good stuff man". Not saying there's no skill involved or lacking entertainment value, but people really need to start seeing 1vX for what it really is, stomping newbies.

Group play stomps newbs just as much (AP farms, keep defenses, scroll defenses, etc.)
The two playstyles are mutual:
- In solo play, CC then burn.
- In group play its CC, negate, counter negate, purge, burn.

The end is the same.
in group play if you are constantly killing groups left and right I'd imagine your challenge is a similar argument; your group is farming inexperienced players.

Advice for new players: join a pvp guild, make friends, play the style you feel is the most fun.

(Look at Aelinir in AD and his group as inspiration, same core group plays resources hoping to pull fights. No doubt they are having fun and hats off to them. despite them facing newbies at times, if a group of new players can band together on equal level to face them, you'll learn alot in pvp.)

Don't knock the streamers either, their level of play is still challenging, especially if you use a non-flavor of the month class/build (not to mention they bring new numbers to pvp as breathing advertising.)

Forestd16b14_ESO

Exploiting broken mechanics/skills. Example block casting and shield stacking or spamming wrecking blow.

Lava_Croft

Find bad players.
Kill them.
Pretend you are ESO.

Waffennacht

LoS is the weakest form of playing I have seen. Usually against enemies engaged in NPCs with no escape route.

Its valid, I just think its akin to NB cloak, when you disengage your opponent the battle is over (imo) and if you re engage you are just facing an already wounded opponent.

I personally love facing an opponent whom is at full strength, aware of my presence, alone. Let the better warrior walk away I say!

Obv not an answer to OP, he already got them. Just wanted to express my personal view of like every single stream being. Cloak around corner or streak around corner.

Minno

Waffennacht wrote: »

LoS is the weakest form of playing I have seen. Usually against enemies engaged in NPCs with no escape route.

Its valid, I just think its akin to NB cloak, when you disengage your opponent the battle is over (imo) and if you re engage you are just facing an already wounded opponent.

I personally love facing an opponent whom is at full strength, aware of my presence, alone. Let the better warrior walk away I say!

Obv not an answer to OP, he already got them. Just wanted to express my personal view of like every single stream being. Cloak around corner or streak around corner.

LOS is a viable tactic.
It's counter is to not fall for the obvious baiting.

Ezareth

This thread is entertaining.

1vX is possible against good players depending on their setup and situation but usually it is against players who are far less knowledgeable about the game than the player 1vXing.

The primary thing that makes 1vX extremely difficult or impossible is the presence of a dedicated healer. Usually a 1vXer will slowly wear down his opponents and chain kill target after target starting with the softest target first (usually the all out DPS nightblade). If you have the capability to heal other players and you see a group fighting a single player and want to join in, do nothing but heal your teammates and you will find they almost always will kill the target.

1vXing has nothing to do with being a Sorc although in 1.6 is was easy to 1vX as a sorc. Now, you'll find Sorcs, Stamina builds from all classes 1vXing plus Magicka NBs. It is pretty hard to successfully 1vX right now as a Magicka Templar or Magicka DK barring a few exceptional players.

FENGRUSH

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Find bad players.
Kill them.
Pretend you are ESO.

FENGRUSH is ESO

k2blader

Hey OP, I main a magicka sorc and sometimes wonder the same thing. Well moreso I wonder how is it possible to beat people who seem to kill me so easily. I basically arrive at the same conclusion that I need to do a combo of the following: learn to play/counter better, improve my gear, build my skill points, and build my CPs.

That said, there are occasions when I don't understand what happened. For example, a week or so ago, a lone EP magicka sorc (name started with a C iirc) 1vXing multiple AD between Sejanus and BRK. Even with 4 people attacking him, his health was not going down at all and he was killing people with 2-3 hits. Later I thought maybe it had to do with that player possibly being emp or having max Cyrodiil buffs while AD had zero buffs; but I still don't understand how he was so effortlessly able to stack shields such that his health didn't even get dented plus kill everyone within a few seconds each. It is such a different experience for me-- my shield is so quickly damaged it may as well not even be there, and having to recast it and/or other shields all too easily takes away from my time trying to do damage and consumes a good amount of magicka.

So yeah, I don't know how that guy was doing it as I generally don't have problems with fellow magicka sorcs other than coming to a standoff. I guess I will never know. It's disconcerting to think exceptions like him are why people want to nerf sorcs so much. I can't even come close to having undented shields and enough damage and resources to continuously 2-shot people.

Ezareth

k2blader wrote: »

Hey OP, I main a magicka sorc and sometimes wonder the same thing. Well moreso I wonder how is it possible to beat people who seem to kill me so easily. I basically arrive at the same conclusion that I need to do a combo of the following: learn to play/counter better, improve my gear, build my skill points, and build my CPs.

That said, there are occasions when I don't understand what happened. For example, a week or so ago, a lone EP magicka sorc (name started with a C iirc) 1vXing multiple AD between Sejanus and BRK. Even with 4 people attacking him, his health was not going down at all and he was killing people with 2-3 hits. Later I thought maybe it had to do with that player possibly being emp or having max Cyrodiil buffs while AD had zero buffs; but I still don't understand how he was so effortlessly able to stack shields such that his health didn't even get dented plus kill everyone within a few seconds each. It is such a different experience for me-- my shield is so quickly damaged it may as well not even be there, and having to recast it and/or other shields all too easily takes away from my time trying to do damage and consumes a good amount of magicka.

So yeah, I don't know how that guy was doing it as I generally don't have problems with fellow magicka sorcs other than coming to a standoff. I guess I will never know. It's disconcerting to think exceptions like him are why people want to nerf sorcs so much. I can't even come close to having undented shields and enough damage and resources to continuously 2-shot people.

Usually it is a combination of shield stacking and other defensive abilities. My 1vX magicka sorc build includes Ball of Lightning (absorbs all magicka projectiles for 2.5 seconds) and Defensive posture. I run with 16-1800 Stamina regen and Dodge roll religiously as well. A well-designed 1vX build is extremely balanced with strong healing, defensive abilities and good (but not awe-inspiring) damage. Extreme damage is only necessary for a ganking build.

Minno

Ezareth wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hey OP, I main a magicka sorc and sometimes wonder the same thing. Well moreso I wonder how is it possible to beat people who seem to kill me so easily. I basically arrive at the same conclusion that I need to do a combo of the following: learn to play/counter better, improve my gear, build my skill points, and build my CPs.

That said, there are occasions when I don't understand what happened. For example, a week or so ago, a lone EP magicka sorc (name started with a C iirc) 1vXing multiple AD between Sejanus and BRK. Even with 4 people attacking him, his health was not going down at all and he was killing people with 2-3 hits. Later I thought maybe it had to do with that player possibly being emp or having max Cyrodiil buffs while AD had zero buffs; but I still don't understand how he was so effortlessly able to stack shields such that his health didn't even get dented plus kill everyone within a few seconds each. It is such a different experience for me-- my shield is so quickly damaged it may as well not even be there, and having to recast it and/or other shields all too easily takes away from my time trying to do damage and consumes a good amount of magicka.

So yeah, I don't know how that guy was doing it as I generally don't have problems with fellow magicka sorcs other than coming to a standoff. I guess I will never know. It's disconcerting to think exceptions like him are why people want to nerf sorcs so much. I can't even come close to having undented shields and enough damage and resources to continuously 2-shot people.

Usually it is a combination of shield stacking and other defensive abilities. My 1vX magicka sorc build includes Ball of Lightning (absorbs all magicka projectiles for 2.5 seconds) and Defensive posture. I run with 16-1800 Stamina regen and Dodge roll religiously as well. A well-designed 1vX build is extremely balanced with strong healing, defensive abilities and good (but not awe-inspiring) damage. Extreme damage is only necessary for a ganking build.

^this.

You can sum up cyro into 4 builds:

-the ganker (high burst, low defense, usually stamina)
- the balanced build (build mentioned by Ezareth)
- the healer (max magicka, cost reduction, low dps, sometimes high armor.)
- the tank. (attention grabber, high health, S+B)

There are variations of these for group play, but since this is a small group thread we will ignore those builds.

Most builds in cyro are gankers due to NB being popular.

k2blader

Ezareth wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hey OP, I main a magicka sorc and sometimes wonder the same thing. Well moreso I wonder how is it possible to beat people who seem to kill me so easily. I basically arrive at the same conclusion that I need to do a combo of the following: learn to play/counter better, improve my gear, build my skill points, and build my CPs.

That said, there are occasions when I don't understand what happened. For example, a week or so ago, a lone EP magicka sorc (name started with a C iirc) 1vXing multiple AD between Sejanus and BRK. Even with 4 people attacking him, his health was not going down at all and he was killing people with 2-3 hits. Later I thought maybe it had to do with that player possibly being emp or having max Cyrodiil buffs while AD had zero buffs; but I still don't understand how he was so effortlessly able to stack shields such that his health didn't even get dented plus kill everyone within a few seconds each. It is such a different experience for me-- my shield is so quickly damaged it may as well not even be there, and having to recast it and/or other shields all too easily takes away from my time trying to do damage and consumes a good amount of magicka.

So yeah, I don't know how that guy was doing it as I generally don't have problems with fellow magicka sorcs other than coming to a standoff. I guess I will never know. It's disconcerting to think exceptions like him are why people want to nerf sorcs so much. I can't even come close to having undented shields and enough damage and resources to continuously 2-shot people.

Usually it is a combination of shield stacking and other defensive abilities. My 1vX magicka sorc build includes Ball of Lightning (absorbs all magicka projectiles for 2.5 seconds) and Defensive posture. I run with 16-1800 Stamina regen and Dodge roll religiously as well. A well-designed 1vX build is extremely balanced with strong healing, defensive abilities and good (but not awe-inspiring) damage. Extreme damage is only necessary for a ganking build.

Yeah facing your kind of defensive build I'd definitely be in trouble! But this sorc wasn't using BoL, his shield(s) barely took a dent (I was watching that lol), and he was kind of bouncing around just smooshing people one after the other. I feel like I need a video to know what he was doing so right. :-]

Emma_Overload

I don't think OP's issue has anything to do with the fact that his opponent was a Sorc. Experienced PvP players seem to have a knack for avoiding damage... I don't really know how they do it, but I'm starting to have suspicions:

1) They dodge roll at the right time.

2) They bash in the middle of your attack.

3) They dance around somehow so that your attacks never finish (or hit anything). I think this what people mean by "LOS".

4) They use potions that give them a long period of CC immunity.

Minno

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think OP's issue has anything to do with the fact that his opponent was a Sorc. Experienced PvP players seem to have a knack for avoiding damage... I don't really know how they do it, but I'm starting to have suspicions:

1) They dodge roll at the right time.

2) They bash in the middle of your attack.

3) They dance around somehow so that your attacks never finish (or hit anything). I think this what people mean by "LOS".

4) They use potions that give them a long period of CC immunity.

Lol the dancing/jumping around is to *** you off. I doubt it does anything.

Waffennacht

The dancing i think is in reference to walking through WB (as example)

Also @k2blader very recently it was shown to me tha g with the right build a sorc can actually achieve a 96k (pretty sure not in Cyrodiil but freakin still) shield (not just one but you know what I mean)

At 48k shield strength I seriously doubt you'll see much damage, and at that magicka level you gonna be droppin mad bombs

Ezareth

k2blader wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Hey OP, I main a magicka sorc and sometimes wonder the same thing. Well moreso I wonder how is it possible to beat people who seem to kill me so easily. I basically arrive at the same conclusion that I need to do a combo of the following: learn to play/counter better, improve my gear, build my skill points, and build my CPs.

That said, there are occasions when I don't understand what happened. For example, a week or so ago, a lone EP magicka sorc (name started with a C iirc) 1vXing multiple AD between Sejanus and BRK. Even with 4 people attacking him, his health was not going down at all and he was killing people with 2-3 hits. Later I thought maybe it had to do with that player possibly being emp or having max Cyrodiil buffs while AD had zero buffs; but I still don't understand how he was so effortlessly able to stack shields such that his health didn't even get dented plus kill everyone within a few seconds each. It is such a different experience for me-- my shield is so quickly damaged it may as well not even be there, and having to recast it and/or other shields all too easily takes away from my time trying to do damage and consumes a good amount of magicka.

So yeah, I don't know how that guy was doing it as I generally don't have problems with fellow magicka sorcs other than coming to a standoff. I guess I will never know. It's disconcerting to think exceptions like him are why people want to nerf sorcs so much. I can't even come close to having undented shields and enough damage and resources to continuously 2-shot people.

Usually it is a combination of shield stacking and other defensive abilities. My 1vX magicka sorc build includes Ball of Lightning (absorbs all magicka projectiles for 2.5 seconds) and Defensive posture. I run with 16-1800 Stamina regen and Dodge roll religiously as well. A well-designed 1vX build is extremely balanced with strong healing, defensive abilities and good (but not awe-inspiring) damage. Extreme damage is only necessary for a ganking build.

Yeah facing your kind of defensive build I'd definitely be in trouble! But this sorc wasn't using BoL, his shield(s) barely took a dent (I was watching that lol), and he was kind of bouncing around just smooshing people one after the other. I feel like I need a video to know what he was doing so right. :-]

Yeah he was definitely stacking at least Harness magicka with Hardened Ward. With insanely high Magicka right now that combination is absurdly powerful when fighting magick dealing classes. My Harness Magicka right now costs me 3024 Magicka returns me 5400 magicka if I stack hardened on top of it and take 3 separate magicka attacks...and I'm only using 5 pieces of light armor. With the right build a Sorc can become virtually impervious to magickal attack due to basically having zero cost for their shields and it's a stupid playstyle that needs fixed.

Ezareth

Minno wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think OP's issue has anything to do with the fact that his opponent was a Sorc. Experienced PvP players seem to have a knack for avoiding damage... I don't really know how they do it, but I'm starting to have suspicions:

1) They dodge roll at the right time.

2) They bash in the middle of your attack.

3) They dance around somehow so that your attacks never finish (or hit anything). I think this what people mean by "LOS".

4) They use potions that give them a long period of CC immunity.

Lol the dancing/jumping around is to *** you off. I doubt it does anything.

Minno wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't think OP's issue has anything to do with the fact that his opponent was a Sorc. Experienced PvP players seem to have a knack for avoiding damage... I don't really know how they do it, but I'm starting to have suspicions:

1) They dodge roll at the right time.

2) They bash in the middle of your attack.

3) They dance around somehow so that your attacks never finish (or hit anything). I think this what people mean by "LOS".

4) They use potions that give them a long period of CC immunity.

Lol the dancing/jumping around is to *** you off. I doubt it does anything.

When you have people spamming wrecking blow on you all the time, it helps to be a moving target. Otherwise "bunny hoping" has a host of other benefits that have been discovered and shared throughout the past couple years but none of them are major.

Dodge rolling is something I do intrinsically right now but these super sorcs don't even bother any more they just make this insane shield stack and eat everything they can with it.

thelordoffelines

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Exploiting broken mechanics/skills. Example block casting and shield stacking or spamming wrecking blow.

Those things you listed arent broken nor are they exploits no matter how much you disagree with them.

Dakrana_Thrazvoth

Olen_Mikko wrote: »

1vX takes lot of skills, no matter who you opponents are. Ofc noobs makes it lot easier.

I consider me and my fellow guildies good players. Better than decent, but maybe not among the best and still i know bunch of talented 1vX - players that can kill us, if we are not in TS.

Dont move, I come back soon hunt you inside yellows keeps

Olen_Mikko

Vâo wrote: »

Dont move, I come back soon hunt you inside yellows keeps

Let me practice first.