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Why Magicka Templars Suck in PvP
bikerangelo
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Sorry for the clickbait title. My last post was too broad for explicit discussions, and templars need it the most. I'm going to run through skills, perks, gear, and some other buffs for the class, while highlighting the weakest abilities in the class trees and perhaps the weakest in the game.
Generally speaking, templars have the hardest time dishing out competitive dps in PvP because most of their abilities are channeled or have an extended cast time. Also, since I haven't been playing since beta, I've heard that some of the abilities were nerfed much harder than they should've been, so my opinion isn't really shaped by what the class used to be. From what I've seen so far, templars have a harder time at stacking spell power, as opposed to sorcs who have built in passives for spell power. While running a 5 set of julianos, molag kena, and torug's pact dw, I have just over 2k spell power and around 2k regen (with drinks). This is average at best, and I wouldn't have too many complaints if templar abilities could actually back up the stats.
Aedric Spear tree
This tree is more helpful to stamina classes than magicka, even though magicka templars rely on these skills as more of a crutch.Puncturing sweep would be an amazing ability if it didn't take 2 seconds to channel. The self heal is nice, especially if your single target dps is at 10k or higher, but for the most part it can be easily countered or interrupted.
Piercing Javelin is completely useless and a minor inconvenience to other players at best; it hardly does any decent damage and is only useful if you're knocking someone off a wall to their death.
Toppling Charge (Focused charge morph)-
This deserves some serious focus because I have several problems with this ability. It is by far the worst gap closer in the game whenever it doesn't bug out completely and make your character glitch in place as it fails to function. The charge animation takes so long to finish that your opponent can break CC before you can even set off one of your channeled abilities. I tried running 1h and shield with shield charge since it's a much cleaner animation and a more reliable gap closer, but as a magicka class this is incredibly inconvenient. If anything, the actual bug in this ability needs to be fixed. I've found it to occur most often when your target isn't on the same ground level as you are.
Spear shards is a bad AoE, acts like a no-scope CC that doesn't do much damage, and is only useful for trying to find stealthed players. The only reason it'd be used would be for a group with stamina builds who can synergize off the shards, which is why templars are a better class for PvE dungeon runs. There's a reason why you see this ability spammed, it's a less annoying version of Ambush because it will take hours to kill you.
Sun shield is just awful, I've replaced it with Harness Magicka. If Blazing shield had a longer duration, it might be worth using, but scaling off of max health can be either somewhat helpful or completely pointless. I'm a templar, I sit at 18k health because I have 18 different self heals to choose from, so why do I have a ward that only lasts until one of my channeled abilities is done then dissipates while stealing my resources? Lengthening the duration will not make templars OP, it will just take into account that every templar ability takes forever to cast, and casting blazing shield between each ability just makes it useless.
Radial sweep is decent, I don't run it because there are better AoE's I can run, especially if I'm focused on ranged attacks (definitely not nova though).
Dawn's Wrath
Sun fire (Reflective light & Vampire's bane): Reflective light is still bugged, as in it should hit up to 3 targets in front of you, unlesss they're at varying ranges, then it might hit 1 or 2 at best. Vampire's bane doesn't do enough damage and the snare isn't effective enough to even run, plus the bonus to crit is marginal at best. Again, I'm a templar, my spell crit is at 50% because critical heals save lives, so running Vampires bane to get my spell crit 10% higher for a few seconds makes a hardly noticeable difference to gameplay, if any.
Solar Flare: Solar barrage makes sense if you're a hybrid magicka tank in the middle of a group of enemy players. Dark flare, however, is the infamous holy flaming beach ball that floats towards its target, and is without a doubt the easiest attack to dodge. Whoever made that arched travel path seriously didn't want it used in PvP.
Backlash: ....meh.
Eclipse (Total Dark): Only works on magicka builds, only problem with it is not being effective against inevitable det or sorc's curse. Also not a reliable self heal.
Radiant Destruction (Oppression): Even though it's a channel, and I hate channels, it's actually one of the most reliable executes in the game, given you have line of sight and know when to use it. I've seen lots of templars take note of the large damage output, not take into account the channel time, and use it on shield stacking sorcs with 100% health. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. You will make the sorc laugh his face off before you even cut through half of his wards. Also, even though the ability triggers extra damage below 50%, don't use it until your target's around 20%. This will guarantee an execute and not keep you stuck in a channel while your target has time to crit rush or CC you and break the channel. Again, this is probably the best dps ability that templars have going for them, but it's abused so often it makes me want to cry a holy tear.
Nova: great for PvE.
Restoring Light
This entire skill tree is the reason templars are targeted first in a group. If you're running around spamming breath of life or healing ritual, you will get knocked down immediately and beaten to death. Healing ritual is a hard animation to cancel, but it's a little easier with breath of life, the key is to not spam it. If you're in a gorup and people are close to death, the best option is to pop a healing ward then follow it up with a subtle breath of life to ensure everyone stays up.
Repentence: the other morph isn't even worth mentioning because nobody uses it. This is a great no-cost heal and stam return, but I've found it to be more useful on stamina templars than magicka. However, if you're in a group, it's a great ability.
Purifying Ritual: I love this ability for many reasons. It cleanses DoTs, mark, snares, etc, and is much cheaper than purge. Please keep this ability as is.
Rune Focus: This ability would be more useful if the rune had a larger diameter. It almost enourages the lack of mobility in templars by restricting them to a tiny disk the size of the smallest enemy AoE. Since it's low cost and has an 8 second duration after you leave the rune, it's decent, however a larger rune would be nice. That's just my personal preference though.
To sum up, Magicka Templars have a very hard time at being competitive in PvP whenever they're not in a group. I've seen some builds that use the bow passives for mobility as well as some medium armor perks, but this is highly inconvenient if you're swapping out a resto for a bow on your support bar, as well as losing certain passives when using medium armor. Since I run dual wield, I could run quick cloak for the major expedition, but that'd cut into my very small stamina reserve so I'm less inclined toward it.
Here's my build
Gear: 5 Julianos (divines), 1 Molag Kena (heavy, divines), 4 Torug's Pact (1 body, 2 swords w precise, 1 resto w precise), 2 magic regen jewelry and 1 spell power.
Mundus is Atronach for magic regen
Bar 1 (dw): Puncturing Sweep, Radiant Oppression, Toppling Charge, Dark Flare, Harness Magicka, Dawnbreaker as Ult
Bar 2 (Resto): Repentence, Purifying Ritual, Healing Ward, Breath of Life, Channeled Focus, Ice Comet as Ult
If you have any build suggestions or other opinions on abilities, feel free to comment.
Generally speaking, templars have the hardest time dishing out competitive dps in PvP because most of their abilities are channeled or have an extended cast time. Also, since I haven't been playing since beta, I've heard that some of the abilities were nerfed much harder than they should've been, so my opinion isn't really shaped by what the class used to be. From what I've seen so far, templars have a harder time at stacking spell power, as opposed to sorcs who have built in passives for spell power. While running a 5 set of julianos, molag kena, and torug's pact dw, I have just over 2k spell power and around 2k regen (with drinks). This is average at best, and I wouldn't have too many complaints if templar abilities could actually back up the stats.
Aedric Spear tree
This tree is more helpful to stamina classes than magicka, even though magicka templars rely on these skills as more of a crutch.Puncturing sweep would be an amazing ability if it didn't take 2 seconds to channel. The self heal is nice, especially if your single target dps is at 10k or higher, but for the most part it can be easily countered or interrupted.
Piercing Javelin is completely useless and a minor inconvenience to other players at best; it hardly does any decent damage and is only useful if you're knocking someone off a wall to their death.
Toppling Charge (Focused charge morph)-
This deserves some serious focus because I have several problems with this ability. It is by far the worst gap closer in the game whenever it doesn't bug out completely and make your character glitch in place as it fails to function. The charge animation takes so long to finish that your opponent can break CC before you can even set off one of your channeled abilities. I tried running 1h and shield with shield charge since it's a much cleaner animation and a more reliable gap closer, but as a magicka class this is incredibly inconvenient. If anything, the actual bug in this ability needs to be fixed. I've found it to occur most often when your target isn't on the same ground level as you are.
Spear shards is a bad AoE, acts like a no-scope CC that doesn't do much damage, and is only useful for trying to find stealthed players. The only reason it'd be used would be for a group with stamina builds who can synergize off the shards, which is why templars are a better class for PvE dungeon runs. There's a reason why you see this ability spammed, it's a less annoying version of Ambush because it will take hours to kill you.
Sun shield is just awful, I've replaced it with Harness Magicka. If Blazing shield had a longer duration, it might be worth using, but scaling off of max health can be either somewhat helpful or completely pointless. I'm a templar, I sit at 18k health because I have 18 different self heals to choose from, so why do I have a ward that only lasts until one of my channeled abilities is done then dissipates while stealing my resources? Lengthening the duration will not make templars OP, it will just take into account that every templar ability takes forever to cast, and casting blazing shield between each ability just makes it useless.
Radial sweep is decent, I don't run it because there are better AoE's I can run, especially if I'm focused on ranged attacks (definitely not nova though).
Dawn's Wrath
Sun fire (Reflective light & Vampire's bane): Reflective light is still bugged, as in it should hit up to 3 targets in front of you, unlesss they're at varying ranges, then it might hit 1 or 2 at best. Vampire's bane doesn't do enough damage and the snare isn't effective enough to even run, plus the bonus to crit is marginal at best. Again, I'm a templar, my spell crit is at 50% because critical heals save lives, so running Vampires bane to get my spell crit 10% higher for a few seconds makes a hardly noticeable difference to gameplay, if any.
Solar Flare: Solar barrage makes sense if you're a hybrid magicka tank in the middle of a group of enemy players. Dark flare, however, is the infamous holy flaming beach ball that floats towards its target, and is without a doubt the easiest attack to dodge. Whoever made that arched travel path seriously didn't want it used in PvP.
Backlash: ....meh.
Eclipse (Total Dark): Only works on magicka builds, only problem with it is not being effective against inevitable det or sorc's curse. Also not a reliable self heal.
Radiant Destruction (Oppression): Even though it's a channel, and I hate channels, it's actually one of the most reliable executes in the game, given you have line of sight and know when to use it. I've seen lots of templars take note of the large damage output, not take into account the channel time, and use it on shield stacking sorcs with 100% health. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS. You will make the sorc laugh his face off before you even cut through half of his wards. Also, even though the ability triggers extra damage below 50%, don't use it until your target's around 20%. This will guarantee an execute and not keep you stuck in a channel while your target has time to crit rush or CC you and break the channel. Again, this is probably the best dps ability that templars have going for them, but it's abused so often it makes me want to cry a holy tear.
Nova: great for PvE.
Restoring Light
This entire skill tree is the reason templars are targeted first in a group. If you're running around spamming breath of life or healing ritual, you will get knocked down immediately and beaten to death. Healing ritual is a hard animation to cancel, but it's a little easier with breath of life, the key is to not spam it. If you're in a gorup and people are close to death, the best option is to pop a healing ward then follow it up with a subtle breath of life to ensure everyone stays up.
Repentence: the other morph isn't even worth mentioning because nobody uses it. This is a great no-cost heal and stam return, but I've found it to be more useful on stamina templars than magicka. However, if you're in a group, it's a great ability.
Purifying Ritual: I love this ability for many reasons. It cleanses DoTs, mark, snares, etc, and is much cheaper than purge. Please keep this ability as is.
Rune Focus: This ability would be more useful if the rune had a larger diameter. It almost enourages the lack of mobility in templars by restricting them to a tiny disk the size of the smallest enemy AoE. Since it's low cost and has an 8 second duration after you leave the rune, it's decent, however a larger rune would be nice. That's just my personal preference though.
To sum up, Magicka Templars have a very hard time at being competitive in PvP whenever they're not in a group. I've seen some builds that use the bow passives for mobility as well as some medium armor perks, but this is highly inconvenient if you're swapping out a resto for a bow on your support bar, as well as losing certain passives when using medium armor. Since I run dual wield, I could run quick cloak for the major expedition, but that'd cut into my very small stamina reserve so I'm less inclined toward it.
Here's my build
Gear: 5 Julianos (divines), 1 Molag Kena (heavy, divines), 4 Torug's Pact (1 body, 2 swords w precise, 1 resto w precise), 2 magic regen jewelry and 1 spell power.
Mundus is Atronach for magic regen
Bar 1 (dw): Puncturing Sweep, Radiant Oppression, Toppling Charge, Dark Flare, Harness Magicka, Dawnbreaker as Ult
Bar 2 (Resto): Repentence, Purifying Ritual, Healing Ward, Breath of Life, Channeled Focus, Ice Comet as Ult
If you have any build suggestions or other opinions on abilities, feel free to comment.
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Francescolg✭✭✭✭Very well written but the problem is a) many main templar players left and b) ZOS won't even register your ideas, because we've been discussing your main points for over a year and nothing really changed, exept that some of our best class abilities got hit: Blazing Shield, our only "AoE CC", etc.
Nobody cares about Templars..5 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a Templar here's my rundown on some of those skills:
Spear tree:
-Puncturing sweeps is not hitting through shields at full percentage.
- everyone picks the toppling charge because they read on it via online builds. Take the AOE morph if you want a counter to mages/other casters. Why? It's tooltip mentions "enemies" instead of "enemy" in getting the off balance status effect (with 75 CP in thaumaturge you get access to increased dmg to enemies set off balance passive. @ZOS_BrianWheeler can we get a confirmation that AOE morph of toppling charge sets all enemies off balance instead of one?
- shards will always set one player off balance. Great for DOT builds. But its floor cast leaves it not useful in solo play.
- sun shield is not viable anymore. You need health to make it strong. But the other morph increases strength by how many players are near you. Great to pop when zerge and cheap mana. Pop it before WB hit to soften blows.
- radial sweep for pve, sustain DPS increases if you take dmg morph. Forpvp you need to run empowering sweep. You have no idea how much this will save you when zerged
Dawns tree
- vamps bane only useful for single target and boss fights. Reflective best morph since you can hit a few enemies. Has to be within range for all 3 targets (don't think its bugged.) Can replace force pulse as a spamable dps skill. Great for destro staff builds.
- dark flares cast time limits it as a proper spamable. But its sexy opening in your rotation. AOE morph can replace destroy impulse.
- backlash its stam morph is sexy. The other is a dps loss.
- eclipse. Situational reflect. S+B reflect is better. But its time bomb effect still hits even if the CC immunity does let the reflect go through. (Rumor so it needs testing ?)
- RD is currently bugged. At 50% until 15% its hitting for weird dmg. Worebel confirmed this and is fixing it.
- nova = pve
Restoring tree
- BOL = bread and butter. But most templars spam it burning mana pools. It's MUCH better if you pretend it's a healing execute (pop it at low heal for a crazy almost instaheal.). HOT should be your healing bread and butter.
- healing rit = short duration for group play (can replace healing springs.) Obviously not good for solo.
- putting ritual is on your bar at all times. Don't change this skill!!! It currently negates meteor's and Radiant destruction
- repentance is a good skill. The other morph I believe uses potion cooldowns so its not a good skill.
- channeled focus is only morpgh you need.
Resto staff and S+B synergize perfectly with templars. I'm using a bow on my back bar but its not a final build.
Many templars use vamp for regen and an escape. But that fire dmg is too real lol.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Francescolg wrote: »Very well written but the problem is a) many main templar players left and b) ZOS won't even register your ideas, because we've been discussing your main points for over a year and nothing really changed, exept that some of our best class abilities got hit: Blazing Shield, our only "AoE CC", etc.
Nobody cares about Templars..
You're also not mentioning the major nerfs to the passives that Templar has received (too numerous to list here). Our best cc was removed for an execute that is just okay. Charge still bugs out for most of us, and is often more trouble than it is worth (I use shield charge or two hander charge myself) and its a shame they can't make it operate like Ambush. Eclipse/Backlash needs major love. Blazing Spear is not so great with the way cc immunity works now. Its not a horrible class, but it definitely needs repair.
I think one of the things they should have done a long time ago is rework the Toppling/Explosive charge animation to function exactly like Ambush. It would look cooler anyway, if a Templar just exploded forward in a beam of light and jabbed the aedric spear into the target. Its clear they can't make this skill function properly, so why not copy what works (Ambush). In terms of animation explosive charge could be a golden lotus fan and Toppling could be a golden ambush. Problem solved. We are all tired of having our skillbar go on a 2 minute cooldown while we become a free target to other players/npc's.
If eclipse and backlash worked better, they would never have had to get rid of blinding flashes either. Eclipse should be as good as the npc version (those healer guards are way OP). Backlash should come with a fast ticking DoT over and above the final (and capped) exploding damage considering what it does. If they had done these things, I don't think Radiant Destruction would have felt necessary for dps, and the Templar Tanks and Mages could have kept their pbaoe cc.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>1 -
SneaK✭✭✭✭✭I put my Templar on hold for awhile but I'm back on him now. I am enjoying my rotations but the bugs with charge/sweeps are extremely annoying. Sitting there with my ______ in my hand.Spear, get your mind out of the gutter.Edited by SneaK on November 19, 2015 6:41PM"IMO"Aldmeri DominionBosmer Nightblade AR 32 - Altmer Templar AR 26 - Dunmer Dragonknight AR 18 - Altmer Sorcerer AR 20 - Khajiit Dragonknight AR 18(+3 not worth mentioning, yet)0 -
AbraXuSeXile✭✭✭✭✭
✭Templars and DKs are subpar because of no softcaps only. Shield nerf also is lame.Edited by AbraXuSeXile on November 19, 2015 6:44PMAbraXuS
Grand Overlord Rank 50 [First EU]
Clan Leader of eXile
Gaming Community - Est. 1999
Crashing an EP Wedding | DK Emp | 1vX | Between Enemy Lines | Hate Video | 5 v Many3 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a Templar here's my rundown on some of those skills...
My templar's due for a respec soon, so I'll try some of your suggestions. Some quick notes; Explosive charge does have a minor AoE but only sets 1 target off balance. This was when i was testing it on mobs, not sure about PvP situations.
Empowering sweep sounds decent, I'll swap it in and take out Dawnbreaker to see how it runs.
Had absolutely no idea ritual negated meteor and RD, that's epic. Does it negate inevitable det and curse as well?
I'd go S+B, but I feel like I'd sacrifice too much SP, I'll mess around with it though.
Last note, I tried vamp and it sucked, mostly because I wanted to use mist but then they nerfed the magic regen so I got cured. Fire damage was ok since I was running harness magicka, but the health regen was what really (literally) killed me.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bikerangelo wrote: »As a Templar here's my rundown on some of those skills...
My templar's due for a respec soon, so I'll try some of your suggestions. Some quick notes; Explosive charge does have a minor AoE but only sets 1 target off balance. This was when i was testing it on mobs, not sure about PvP situations.
Empowering sweep sounds decent, I'll swap it in and take out Dawnbreaker to see how it runs.
Had absolutely no idea ritual negated meteor and RD, that's epic. Does it negate inevitable det and curse as well?
I'd go S+B, but I feel like I'd sacrifice too much SP, I'll mess around with it though.
Last note, I tried vamp and it sucked, mostly because I wanted to use mist but then they nerfed the magic regen so I got cured. Fire damage was ok since I was running harness magicka, but the health regen was what really (literally) killed me.
They need to fix explosive charge then because that tooltip is misleading
.
Empowering sweeps has weak dps, but its increase dmg mitigation per player hit is too good to pass up. Use it on a backbar where you need the spear passive for increased crit dmg but don't want to waste a regular skill slot for jabs or charge.
Purifying ritual removes sorc's spell that puts purple cloud around you (assumed it was either frag or curse.) Makes dueling sorcs the most fun. Doesn't remove inevitable (its unpurgable) but its dmg is weaksauce as long as your solo.
If you go S&B, use a sword for added spell dmg (not much but better than nothing.) Use spell power enchants on rings (they give alot!!!).Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AbraXuSeXile wrote: »Templars and DKs are subpar because of no softcaps only. Shield nerf also is lame.
Yea shield nerf sucks. Need copious amounts of health for it to work. And it's still crappy even with bastion.
Tbh, with templars, you need equal dmg mitigation from the warrior CP tree (spell, crit, DOT magic and elemental) plus channeled focus and a dodge chance to give you an edge. (If using 5 piece light armor.) (If 5 piece heavy use just equal crit, elemental, and magic mitigation).
After shiekdbreaker set, Highly recommend Elude with (1) piece of medium armor (with undaunted passives). Just gives you 20-30 seconds of 20%-30% dodge chance. Pop it before fights and try to burn so you don't use stamina again.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭We seriously need to get some ETA on fixing Toppling charge, because the current situation is extremely limiting.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU1 -
eliisra✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah, you cant play vamp in PvP right now. Camouflage Hunter is beyond broken. Maybe still doable in console, but on PC half the population only Camo Turd spams from stealth and rest runs in blobs.
Which obviously sucks especially much for templars since they lack:
Mele defence after blanket nerf to shields, block and removal of Blinding Flashes
Never had an offensive class ultimate
Mobility
I could get half-decent versions of that from the vampire skill line. But playing vamp now means you get instagibbed every third minute or so.
Anyway, let's not whine. Instead be grateful they're fix Toppling Charge and Radiant Oppression next major update yay. I mean, np at all waiting months for a working gap closer and execute. At least they're working on it
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bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »Francescolg wrote: »
I think one of the things they should have done a long time ago is rework the Toppling/Explosive charge animation to function exactly like Ambush. It would look cooler anyway, if a Templar just exploded forward in a beam of light and jabbed the aedric spear into the target. Its clear they can't make this skill function properly, so why not copy what works (Ambush). In terms of animation explosive charge could be a golden lotus fan and Toppling could be a golden ambush. Problem solved. We are all tired of having our skillbar go on a 2 minute cooldown while we become a free target to other players/npc's.
This would be awesome. Keep the minimum distance though, but have it function exactly like Ambush.0 -
Carterboy254✭✭Hello guys I just started a templer and can't decide if I want to use magic based of stamina what do yall think is better and I have like 170 champ points anybody know a good templer buildGt on Xbox One: OhMyItsSlim www.twitter.com/OhMyItsSlim www.twitch.tv/OhMyItsSlim
Hello My fellow Gaming brothers && sisters I host gameplay of all kind of games such as ESo, Battlefront, Rainbow 6 siege, 2k, COD, and many more While streaming I offer gameplay hints and tips on anything your heart desire such as combos, money making tips, fast grinds etc. I will answer all questions and absolutely love all my viewers. All I ask is that you come watch me stream from time to time and tell your friends to come watch and follow my Twitch and twitter.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Carterboy254 wrote: »Hello guys I just started a templer and can't decide if I want to use magic based of stamina what do yall think is better and I have like 170 champ points anybody know a good templer build
You going to do only pvp or pve content?
For pvp, if you like dps classes, go stamina.
If you like healing go magicka.
Those are the two strengths of Templar for pvp.
Tamriel foundry is a good place to search for starting builds.
http://tamrielfoundry.com/forum/classes/templar-class/Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Akinos✭✭✭✭✭
✭As a Templar here's my rundown on some of those skills:
Spear tree:
-Puncturing sweeps is not hitting through shields at full percentage.
- everyone picks the toppling charge because they read on it via online builds. Take the AOE morph if you want a counter to mages/other casters. Why? It's tooltip mentions "enemies" instead of "enemy" in getting the off balance status effect (with 75 CP in thaumaturge you get access to increased dmg to enemies set off balance passive. @ZOS_BrianWheeler can we get a confirmation that AOE morph of toppling charge sets all enemies off balance instead of one?
- shards will always set one player off balance. Great for DOT builds. But its floor cast leaves it not useful in solo play.
- sun shield is not viable anymore. You need health to make it strong. But the other morph increases strength by how many players are near you. Great to pop when zerge and cheap mana. Pop it before WB hit to soften blows.
- radial sweep for pve, sustain DPS increases if you take dmg morph. Forpvp you need to run empowering sweep. You have no idea how much this will save you when zerged
Dawns tree
- vamps bane only useful for single target and boss fights. Reflective best morph since you can hit a few enemies. Has to be within range for all 3 targets (don't think its bugged.) Can replace force pulse as a spamable dps skill. Great for destro staff builds.
- dark flares cast time limits it as a proper spamable. But its sexy opening in your rotation. AOE morph can replace destroy impulse.
- backlash its stam morph is sexy. The other is a dps loss.
- eclipse. Situational reflect. S+B reflect is better. But its time bomb effect still hits even if the CC immunity does let the reflect go through. (Rumor so it needs testing ?)
- RD is currently bugged. At 50% until 15% its hitting for weird dmg. Worebel confirmed this and is fixing it.
- nova = pve
Restoring tree
- BOL = bread and butter. But most templars spam it burning mana pools. It's MUCH better if you pretend it's a healing execute (pop it at low heal for a crazy almost instaheal.). HOT should be your healing bread and butter.
- healing rit = short duration for group play (can replace healing springs.) Obviously not good for solo.
- putting ritual is on your bar at all times. Don't change this skill!!! It currently negates meteor's and Radiant destruction
- repentance is a good skill. The other morph I believe uses potion cooldowns so its not a good skill.
- channeled focus is only morpgh you need.
Resto staff and S+B synergize perfectly with templars. I'm using a bow on my back bar but its not a final build.
Many templars use vamp for regen and an escape. But that fire dmg is too real lol.
It can knock multiple targets off balance, but only if you hit them mid cast.PC NA | @AkinosPvP 1vX/Small Scaler, Raid Leader, Youtuber and Twitch.tv Streamer.MAGICKA MELEE IS LIFE!Magplar, MagDK, Magden, Magblade, Magsorc & Magcro PvP/Build videos & moretwitch.tv/akinospvp0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just say no to "fixes' and "buffs." Every "fix" or "buff" to Templars comes with 5 nerfs.
5 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭As a Templar here's my rundown on some of those skills:
Spear tree:
-Puncturing sweeps is not hitting through shields at full percentage.
- everyone picks the toppling charge because they read on it via online builds. Take the AOE morph if you want a counter to mages/other casters. Why? It's tooltip mentions "enemies" instead of "enemy" in getting the off balance status effect (with 75 CP in thaumaturge you get access to increased dmg to enemies set off balance passive. @ZOS_BrianWheeler can we get a confirmation that AOE morph of toppling charge sets all enemies off balance instead of one?
- shards will always set one player off balance. Great for DOT builds. But its floor cast leaves it not useful in solo play.
- sun shield is not viable anymore. You need health to make it strong. But the other morph increases strength by how many players are near you. Great to pop when zerge and cheap mana. Pop it before WB hit to soften blows.
- radial sweep for pve, sustain DPS increases if you take dmg morph. Forpvp you need to run empowering sweep. You have no idea how much this will save you when zerged
Dawns tree
- vamps bane only useful for single target and boss fights. Reflective best morph since you can hit a few enemies. Has to be within range for all 3 targets (don't think its bugged.) Can replace force pulse as a spamable dps skill. Great for destro staff builds.
- dark flares cast time limits it as a proper spamable. But its sexy opening in your rotation. AOE morph can replace destroy impulse.
- backlash its stam morph is sexy. The other is a dps loss.
- eclipse. Situational reflect. S+B reflect is better. But its time bomb effect still hits even if the CC immunity does let the reflect go through. (Rumor so it needs testing ?)
- RD is currently bugged. At 50% until 15% its hitting for weird dmg. Worebel confirmed this and is fixing it.
- nova = pve
Restoring tree
- BOL = bread and butter. But most templars spam it burning mana pools. It's MUCH better if you pretend it's a healing execute (pop it at low heal for a crazy almost instaheal.). HOT should be your healing bread and butter.
- healing rit = short duration for group play (can replace healing springs.) Obviously not good for solo.
- putting ritual is on your bar at all times. Don't change this skill!!! It currently negates meteor's and Radiant destruction
- repentance is a good skill. The other morph I believe uses potion cooldowns so its not a good skill.
- channeled focus is only morpgh you need.
Resto staff and S+B synergize perfectly with templars. I'm using a bow on my back bar but its not a final build.
Many templars use vamp for regen and an escape. But that fire dmg is too real lol.
It can knock multiple targets off balance, but only if you hit them mid cast.
That's what I thought Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭Btw. I don't think Radiant Aura is so bad skill as everybody says. Maybe for PvP yes, but even there I certainly don't use potion on every cooldown, that would be a waste. And in PvE it's actually ok, because you don't drink potions after every trash pack.
And even in PvP if you are for example Magicka build and decide to use this skill, you can still prevent it from not stacking with your potions simply by using different potions than generic tripots and still have +20% health/stam regen. It opens more possibilities.
So it's not completely useless skill IMO. It just takes more effort to find it some use. Of course it could could use some change. Would be interesting if they significantly increased duration of Major Fortitude and Major Endurance, so it doesn't need to be maintained so often.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, you cant play vamp in PvP right now. Camouflage Hunter is beyond broken. Maybe still doable in console, but on PC half the population only Camo Turd spams from stealth and rest runs in blobs.
Which obviously sucks especially much for templars since they lack:
Mele defence after blanket nerf to shields, block and removal of Blinding Flashes
Never had an offensive class ultimate
Mobility
I could get half-decent versions of that from the vampire skill line. But playing vamp now means you get instagibbed every third minute or so.
Anyway, let's not whine. Instead be grateful they're fix Toppling Charge and Radiant Oppression next major update yay. I mean, np at all waiting months for a working gap closer and execute. At least they're working on it
Don't forget the mist form bug meaning you still get stunned / CC'd and only get a 20% damage reduction instead of 75%. Making me think about curing myself.0 -
Jura23✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Yeah, you cant play vamp in PvP right now. Camouflage Hunter is beyond broken. Maybe still doable in console, but on PC half the population only Camo Turd spams from stealth and rest runs in blobs.
Which obviously sucks especially much for templars since they lack:
Mele defence after blanket nerf to shields, block and removal of Blinding Flashes
Never had an offensive class ultimate
Mobility
I could get half-decent versions of that from the vampire skill line. But playing vamp now means you get instagibbed every third minute or so.
Anyway, let's not whine. Instead be grateful they're fix Toppling Charge and Radiant Oppression next major update yay. I mean, np at all waiting months for a working gap closer and execute. At least they're working on it
Don't forget the mist form bug meaning you still get stunned / CC'd and only get a 20% damage reduction instead of 75%. Making me think about curing myself.
I did already couple of weeks ago, but now I'm thinking about creating myself Night Silence set, because it's hard to get used to slow sneak movement again.Georgion - Bosmer/Templar - PC/EU0 -
zornyan✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah, you cant play vamp in PvP right now. Camouflage Hunter is beyond broken. Maybe still doable in console, but on PC half the population only Camo Turd spams from stealth and rest runs in blobs.
Which obviously sucks especially much for templars since they lack:
Mele defence after blanket nerf to shields, block and removal of Blinding Flashes
Never had an offensive class ultimate
Mobility
I could get half-decent versions of that from the vampire skill line. But playing vamp now means you get instagibbed every third minute or so.
Anyway, let's not whine. Instead be grateful they're fix Toppling Charge and Radiant Oppression next major update yay. I mean, np at all waiting months for a working gap closer and execute. At least they're working on it
Don't forget the mist form bug meaning you still get stunned / CC'd and only get a 20% damage reduction instead of 75%. Making me think about curing myself.
I did already couple of weeks ago, but now I'm thinking about creating myself Night Silence set, because it's hard to get used to slow sneak movement again.
Sad thing is I love the look too, and the lore and everything. Same with WW .
My guy is a bald imperial with tribal face markings, I out on the almalexia night raid set, take the helmet visual off, in stage 4 with my ruby swords (so a nice deep red) He looks positively evil. Proper vampire overlord style.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Btw. I don't think Radiant Aura is so bad skill as everybody says. Maybe for PvP yes, but even there I certainly don't use potion on every cooldown, that would be a waste. And in PvE it's actually ok, because you don't drink potions after every trash pack.
And even in PvP if you are for example Magicka build and decide to use this skill, you can still prevent it from not stacking with your potions simply by using different potions than generic tripots and still have +20% health/stam regen. It opens more possibilities.
So it's not completely useless skill IMO. It just takes more effort to find it some use. Of course it could could use some change. Would be interesting if they significantly increased duration of Major Fortitude and Major Endurance, so it doesn't need to be maintained so often.
During raids, and as a magicka dps or healer, I'd like to be able to use a pot for spell power and return magicka.
Radiant aura only gives me health and stam regen.
So using it during bosses, you'll be denying magicka dps out of being able to pop a spell pot to help during burning or return magicka during sustain fights.
Don't recommend this skill. (Except for moments when you need to help a tank and stam dps return stats and someone is already on shard duty).
Though I can see it's use in pvp (solo play its strong if you don't use spell power or weapon power pots.)
But overall it's a very inconvenient skill.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭So from what I've read in previous forums, Templars were pretty OP at one point. Apparently a templar could just clap blazing shield over and over to stack each shield on top of itself and pretty much bomb entire zergs. I see how that's immensely unbalanced and sort of ridiculous, but with the state it's in now, it hardly does enough damage output / mitigation to even be considered a good ward or AoE. In Cyrodiil, I have 18k health and blazing shield (or radiant ward) scales off of my health, then is cut in half due to Cyrodiil's shield nerf. That's a 6 second 3k ward that'll put out half the damage it receives, which is 1.5k.
But most importantly, I'd really just appreciate it if explosive charge was fixed. Running sword and board with shield charge drops my spell damage by 400 points and depletes my stamina by an insane amount, even with the reduced cost passives. Also, I've tried to animation cancel the explosive charge (when it actually activates), but no luck. You gotta sit through the whole thing.1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭bikerangelo wrote: »So from what I've read in previous forums, Templars were pretty OP at one point. Apparently a templar could just clap blazing shield over and over to stack each shield on top of itself and pretty much bomb entire zergs. I see how that's immensely unbalanced and sort of ridiculous, but with the state it's in now, it hardly does enough damage output / mitigation to even be considered a good ward or AoE. In Cyrodiil, I have 18k health and blazing shield (or radiant ward) scales off of my health, then is cut in half due to Cyrodiil's shield nerf. That's a 6 second 3k ward that'll put out half the damage it receives, which is 1.5k.
But most importantly, I'd really just appreciate it if explosive charge was fixed. Running sword and board with shield charge drops my spell damage by 400 points and depletes my stamina by an insane amount, even with the reduced cost passives. Also, I've tried to animation cancel the explosive charge (when it actually activates), but no luck. You gotta sit through the whole thing.
Certain skills you can't animation cancel or are too awkward to do properly.
Most are in the Templar skill lines lol.
Reason for most of the GCD for charges was to combat the numerous bots running around at launch.
Bots used templars because of access to jabs, they ran around farming mobs and mats to flood the markets.
There was definitely pvp aspects to keeping the GCD on Templar charge, but it needs revisions.
Elude > most shields as a Templar. It replaces our lost blinding flashes skill.
Consider using it if you want a little survivability in your build, though the tradeoff is stamina.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
bikerangelo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Certain skills you can't animation cancel or are too awkward to do properly.
Most are in the Templar skill lines lol.
Reason for most of the GCD for charges was to combat the numerous bots running around at launch.
Bots used templars because of access to jabs, they ran around farming mobs and mats to flood the markets.
There was definitely pvp aspects to keeping the GCD on Templar charge, but it needs revisions.
Elude > most shields as a Templar. It replaces our lost blinding flashes skill.
Consider using it if you want a little survivability in your build, though the tradeoff is stamina.
I've used shuffle before, but I like actually dodging when I can. especially if I can avoid a frag or a gap closer. I'd rather run the risk of actually dodging attacks as opposed to a 20% chance.
On a side note, and this has probably been mentioned before, the stamina nerf to dodge rolling and break free hurt the magicka classes worse than stamina classes, especially magicka templars. Still don't know why that hasn't been changed back, dodge rolling never hurt anyone.1 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭Can I throw this out there for folks who know how to play templar:
Last night a templar was hitting me for ~11k with Dark Flare which also greatly reduces my ability to heal (which isn't good to begin with). He was also hitting me within the same second with 4 other things. Anyway it kind of surprised me as I often see threads where folks say magicka templars are bad, but this guy seemed to be doing something right. Would a build like that trade healing/survivability to do such high damage?
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Van_0S✭✭✭✭✭Can I throw this out there for folks who know how to play templar:
Last night a templar was hitting me for ~11k with Dark Flare which also greatly reduces my ability to heal (which isn't good to begin with). He was also hitting me within the same second with 4 other skills. Anyway it kind of surprised me as I often see threads where folks say magicka templars are bad, but this guy seemed to be doing something right. Would a build like that trade healing/survivability to do such high damage?
Its called MACROS. Sadly, zeni encourages this kind of exploit which basically breaks the game and also a minor source of lags and crashes.
Edit: Animation canceling as well.Edited by Van_0S on November 21, 2015 9:14AM0 -
k2blader✭✭✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Can I throw this out there for folks who know how to play templar:
Last night a templar was hitting me for ~11k with Dark Flare which also greatly reduces my ability to heal (which isn't good to begin with). He was also hitting me within the same second with 4 other skills. Anyway it kind of surprised me as I often see threads where folks say magicka templars are bad, but this guy seemed to be doing something right. Would a build like that trade healing/survivability to do such high damage?
Its called MACROS. Sadly, zeni encourages this kind of exploit which basically breaks the game and also a minor source of lags and crashes.
I was going to ask about that but didn't feel like being blasted into the stratosphere by people telling me macros don't exist or are never used and to L2P.
Disabling the grass may improve performance.0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YurtTheSilentChief wrote: »Can I throw this out there for folks who know how to play templar:
Last night a templar was hitting me for ~11k with Dark Flare which also greatly reduces my ability to heal (which isn't good to begin with). He was also hitting me within the same second with 4 other skills. Anyway it kind of surprised me as I often see threads where folks say magicka templars are bad, but this guy seemed to be doing something right. Would a build like that trade healing/survivability to do such high damage?
Its called MACROS. Sadly, zeni encourages this kind of exploit which basically breaks the game and also a minor source of lags and crashes.
I was going to ask about that but didn't feel like being blasted into the stratosphere by people telling me macros don't exist or are never used and to L2P.
What were the other skills used?
You can animation cancel dark flare (similar to heavy attack).
But I said in this thread or another thread, many of the Templar skills are awkward to animation cancel.
But it may be possible, this guy mastered his rotation.
Next time, use a spell interupt and see if he reacts. If he used a macro, it should mess up his pvp mojo.
Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0