What's wrong with Vet Levels? Really?

DanielWinterborn

So as the title says, i don't see why people are so upset about Vet levels. This is called evolution, your character evolves, he has a background now, he is evolving with the game and so are you. Don't bash great ideas because you are too lazy to exp, i know is hard as hell to get the levels, i mean i am currently grinding my 2nd char like a machine with member+ambrosia and still takes for ever to get to max level but that's the beauty of it. You put in some work to craft the perfect character, one that has a story, one that has something you can remember. I used to play lineage 2 and even now i remember the days i was a total newb and how long it took me to level my 1st char to max, i was involved in thousands of pvp fights there but the only things i will always rememebr are the times i worked hard to get my levels up.

Bottom line is this : Please add more vet levels, hell add some new General system with Gr16 like stuff or something like that. Just to spite this guys :X love ya tho

Faunter

Many people, including myself, want the veteran ranks to stay. They provide disparity between your own alliance's zones and the veteran ones after "beating the game/stopping the planemeld." People want them gone because it takes forever to grind through Cadwell's Silver and Gold to get to end-game PvE/PvP to pwn dem scrubs and then quit the game after a few weeks because they find it boring. Cadwell's Platinum is what we really need.

MopeyHat

I believe the biggest complaint people have is the constantly expanding vertical progression. Those who work to get level cap and work to get the perfect gear find themselves burned out when the next two veteran levels show up and ask them to repeat the process. Additionally, the levels create a gap between players: you managed to get to V1, but it's hours and days of grinding before you might be viable for the upper-level dungeons, raids and vet PvP. Content like Orsinium seeks to solve this by scaling, but now the levels themselves feel less rewarding. Champion points were supposed to be the alternative; but it was also supposed to take "years" to reach the amount of points people have now. There's just no easy fix.

k2blader

Vet levels are fine IF you don't care about PvP.

If all you want to do is quest, craft, buy-n-sell, explore PvE land, etc., I don't think vet leveling would bother you much.

Unfortunately Zeni added the faulty CP system to the game which adds additional reason to have to grind through PvE content regardless of the fact that some aren't interested in grinding PvE content.

I_killed_Vivec

MopeyHat wrote: »

I believe the biggest complaint people have is the constantly expanding vertical progression. Those who work to get level cap and work to get the perfect gear find themselves burned out when the next two veteran levels show up and ask them to repeat the process. Additionally, the levels create a gap between players: you managed to get to V1, but it's hours and days of grinding before you might be viable for the upper-level dungeons, raids and vet PvP. Content like Orsinium seeks to solve this by scaling, but now the levels themselves feel less rewarding. Champion points were supposed to be the alternative; but it was also supposed to take "years" to reach the amount of points people have now. There's just no easy fix.

The continuous grinding is CP, not VR - VR will "just happen" as you grind away to 501 CP...

I think the predominant reason that some people don't like VR is that while CP are across your account, you still have to grind through VR on alts to be able to use the best gear. It's mainly an alt problem.

The problem with scaling is that it removes progression. Imagine if all of Cadwell's were level 50. It would just be a CP grind, and one that would make some parts ridiculously simple as all mobs would be level 50, but they wouldn't get more CP while you do.

And above all, I've yet to see any suggestion that can give any sense of progression (do you want to play in godmode from level 50 on, forever?), allows people to think they are "competitive" as soon as they reach level 50, and still maintains the value of crafting.

DanielWinterborn

k2blader wrote: »

Vet levels are fine IF you don't care about PvP.

If all you want to do is quest, craft, buy-n-sell, explore PvE land, etc., I don't think vet leveling would bother you much.

Unfortunately Zeni added the faulty CP system to the game which adds additional reason to have to grind through PvE content regardless of the fact that some aren't interested in grinding PvE content.

To you sir i say : LOL

This is why: I only play mmorpg games for PVP, i did listened to the story until i got to Silver but then i just went all out level up skip stuff run around grind all day. I tell you as a veteran pvp-er i do welcome Vet levels and i do welcome CP system just to weed out little boys out of the big guy leagues. You want power?? GET IT! Don't complain about not having it for free, work for it! You hate vet and CP? Go join Cyro non-veteran weakling love ya tho :X

(i want to clarify that the "You want power?? GET IT!" does not mean you have to go and make a sorc or a NB, these are the OP (overpowered) classes, yes we need a balance please ty)

Nestor

Its not the Vet Ranks, but what people have to do to get them. However, Wrothgar, if they don't go and Nerf it like they did Craglorn provides a nice way to get those levels and CPs. So, if they follow the same adventure zone formula for the next zones, then the main argument against VR Ranks will dissipate. Sure, some people will still complain, but I find them the ones that don't want to put in much effort for character development, just load up a template to go PvP.

The changes to the CP system are great. I am in the mid 300's (less than 350 I think right now) and I got two CPs in one dungeon. I did get lost and had to go through it twice, but still a CP per dungeon rotation is nothing to complain about. Imagine if I was at 20 or 30 CPs, I would have gained a dozen or more probably.

What really concerns me is how they are going to replace them and what is going to happen to the game, itemization, crafting, equipment, skills etc etc.

zornyan

Nestor wrote: »

Its not the Vet Ranks, but what people have to do to get them. However, Wrothgar, if they don't go and Nerf it like they did Craglorn provides a nice way to get those levels and CPs. So, if they follow the same adventure zone formula for the next zones, then the main argument against VR Ranks will dissipate. Sure, some people will still complain, but I find them the ones that don't want to put in much effort for character development, just load up a template to go PvP.

The changes to the CP system are great. I am in the mid 300's (less than 350 I think right now) and I got two CPs in one dungeon. I did get lost and had to go through it twice, but still a CP per dungeon rotation is nothing to complain about. Imagine if I was at 20 or 30 CPs, I would have gained a dozen or more probably.

What really concerns me is how they are going to replace them and what is going to happen to the game, itemization, crafting, equipment, skills etc etc.

What's exp like in wrothgar? Currently running one of my alts through silver, and getting bored of doing it the 6th time, she's vr6 atm.

Quests / mobs better exp? Each silver quest is giving me around 20k exp atm average.

Oh and what's the cp mechanic like? At 160, noticeable faster?

jakehargusub17_ESO

I like vet levels. My only complaint is that my highest character is vet3 and I get destroyed in PvP. That's fine, I'll level up. I would love it if there was a PvP campaign that was vet levels 1-5 only though.

Zhoyzu

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

DanielWinterborn

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

Not to be a downer but...i created my 2nd char 3 days ago...he is V4 now, v16 in 4 days i hope....just wanted to say this.

zornyan

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

Really? Months and months ? Slight exaggeration perhaps.

Any normal player can do 1-50 in one day, or 2 at best, skilled / veteran players doing it in 9 hours or less. No exploits.

Vr1-6 can be done within 2 days if you wanted, or a week for an average player, hell even 2 weeks for a casual.

I've played since console release, I'm working on my 8th character, I've got 3 vet 16s, 1 vet 9 (crafter so don't care to level) 1 vet 6 and 5 and a couple spare slots for random builds or BWB pvp builds.

I could easily have 6 vet 16s by now with more time, unfortunately a full time job, girlfriend and social life prevent this.

My average whilst questing is 3 vet levels a day via cadwells questing, 6 vet levels a day through grinding.

Diozaels

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

Not to be a downer but...i created my 2nd char 3 days ago...he is V4 now, v16 in 4 days i hope....just wanted to say this.

Now what did you do to get to VR16 in 4 days? Mind numbingly boring grinding of mobs? no thanks... I'd rather do the cad well's silver and gold... as boring... as that is... too...

Nestor

zornyan wrote: »

What's exp like in wrothgar? Currently running one of my alts through silver, and getting bored of doing it the 6th time, she's vr6 atm.

Quests / mobs better exp? Each silver quest is giving me around 20k exp atm average.

Oh and what's the cp mechanic like? At 160, noticeable faster?

With Battle Scaling, you always get Exp like you would fighting on level mobs. So, you can take any level character in there and get the best exp rate for that level. Also, the mobs have quick respawn rate, in some places you can really just stand there and kill over and over and over again. There are also some places that have lots of easily killed mobs in abundance. Not telling you where, but you will find them.

Quest Exp is much the same as anywhere else, but there are dailies all over the place to do so that makes it nice when you run out of story content.

As for gaining CPs, someone made a chart with the scale on it, but its a fraction of what it used to be for lower CP levels. But I used to gain a CP or two during an evening, but now I get 3 or 4 in Wrothgar (I don't grind or use Exp Potions, I am not chasing CPs per say, just accept them when I get them). Again, this is at 320 to 350 CPs already.

zornyan

Nestor wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

What's exp like in wrothgar? Currently running one of my alts through silver, and getting bored of doing it the 6th time, she's vr6 atm.

Quests / mobs better exp? Each silver quest is giving me around 20k exp atm average.

Oh and what's the cp mechanic like? At 160, noticeable faster?

With Battle Scaling, you always get Exp like you would fighting on level mobs. So, you can take any level character in there and get the best exp rate for that level. Also, the mobs have quick respawn rate, in some places you can really just stand there and kill over and over and over again. There are also some places that have lots of easily killed mobs in abundance. Not telling you where, but you will find them.

Quest Exp is much the same as anywhere else, but there are dailies all over the place to do so that makes it nice when you run out of story content.

As for gaining CPs, someone made a chart with the scale on it, but its a fraction of what it used to be for lower CP levels. But I used to gain a CP or two during an evening, but now I get 3 or 4 in Wrothgar (I don't grind or use Exp Potions, I am not chasing CPs per say, just accept them when I get them). Again, this is at 320 to 350 CPs already.

Ah cool thanks, so judging by the scales I've seen. Where as I've been earning (at a regular pace) 5-6 cp in a day, with 1 enlightened, I'll probably be getting around 10-11 with the mechanic?

Sounds like reasonable exp , at 350 cp your not far off the base 400k per cp level, so your 4 odd is nearly 2 vet ranks, imagine I could find a few new grind spots, makes me happy

DanielWinterborn

Diozaels wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

Not to be a downer but...i created my 2nd char 3 days ago...he is V4 now, v16 in 4 days i hope....just wanted to say this.

Now what did you do to get to VR16 in 4 days? Mind numbingly boring grinding of mobs? no thanks... I'd rather do the cad well's silver and gold... as boring... as that is... too...

I will get v16 in 4 days by doing what you said yes, boring painfull grinding beacause its my 2nd char, the 1st one i got the normal way, questing and some here and there grinding a couple of hours...i have no social life...or do i?? think about it

Cously

The Vet levels are a pain because they are another form of progression yet the same. Should just kept 50-60-70 etc normal level progression.

Jura23

I think the main reason why ZOS want to remove vr at this point is that they want to raise lvl cap in the future like other MMOs, but if they were raising VR the rage would be too big. So they rename them to regular lvls, lower XP needed and that's it.

zornyan

Diozaels wrote: »

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

Zhoyzu wrote: »

Because its too *** much xp. i want to play multiple classes and enjoy them but its a pain when i have to spend months just getting to a point where the character can do stuff (pledges, trials, pvp) 400k xp a vet level would be fine since its the same xp for a CP but 850k is still too much of a grind to enjoy more than one character. And running the same quests again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again gets old really fast

Not to be a downer but...i created my 2nd char 3 days ago...he is V4 now, v16 in 4 days i hope....just wanted to say this.

Now what did you do to get to VR16 in 4 days? Mind numbingly boring grinding of mobs? no thanks... I'd rather do the cad well's silver and gold... as boring... as that is... too...

If he waa grinding it would be vr 1-16 in two days at the most, about 18 hours of gameplay.

Good grindspots with exp scrolls can net nearly 900 an hour exp, so 1 vet rank an hour easy.

Boring to you? Yes, boring to me? Someone that's played dozens of mmos since the 90s that sometimes had ONLY grinding as a leveling option? Nope, just a way of doing things.

Now skipping through that stupid queen ayreens dialpgue in cadwells silvers for the 6th time, and taking 4x longer to level, that's painful, not to mention why would I want to spend 2 weeks on leveling up, when I could do it in two days?

owenspuppiesb14_ESO

It takes me about a week to get to 16. I am currently doing my 3rd character and he is vr7 for 4 days of work. I just use the money I make from grinding to buy more Xp pots. Yes it's boring but I would be just as bored doing quest and it would take me ten times the amount of time. There is no fun way to level fast. There's just the fast boring way and the slow boring way.

k2blader

DanielWinterborn wrote: »

k2blader wrote: »

Vet levels are fine IF you don't care about PvP.

If all you want to do is quest, craft, buy-n-sell, explore PvE land, etc., I don't think vet leveling would bother you much.

Unfortunately Zeni added the faulty CP system to the game which adds additional reason to have to grind through PvE content regardless of the fact that some aren't interested in grinding PvE content.

To you sir i say : LOL

This is why: I only play mmorpg games for PVP, i did listened to the story until i got to Silver but then i just went all out level up skip stuff run around grind all day. I tell you as a veteran pvp-er i do welcome Vet levels and i do welcome CP system just to weed out little boys out of the big guy leagues. You want power?? GET IT! Don't complain about not having it for free, work for it! You hate vet and CP? Go join Cyro non-veteran weakling love ya tho :X

(i want to clarify that the "You want power?? GET IT!" does not mean you have to go and make a sorc or a NB, these are the OP (overpowered) classes, yes we need a balance please ty)

How can I hate someone who says "love ya tho." lol

I dunno, I think you missed the part where I said I bought the game for PvP. Yes I have slogged my main through most of the basics including as many skyshards as I could force myself to run to and halfway through Cadwells Gold; but I am just about done (burnt out) with PvE unless I really feel like doing it, which is a very small part of my play time.

I don't at all mind working for stuff through AP gain, or Cyrodiil quests. But the discrepancy between XP and other rewards through PvP vs. PvE is laughable. If things were made equal you wouldn't see me making these comments. :-P

newtinmpls

jakehargusub17_ESO wrote: »

I like vet levels. My only complaint is that my highest character is vet3 and I get destroyed in PvP. That's fine, I'll level up. I would love it if there was a PvP campaign that was vet levels 1-5 only though.

Well.. go to IC. The super fast respawn makes getting killed much less stressful than the rest of Cyrodiil.

Waffennacht

Vet 16 no silver done, I was a primarily PvE player so I took my time questing. Then started PvP and got addicted. I, based on forum numbers, am one of the slowest levelers out there.

If you just wanna PvP only, well, um of course you gotta PvE! I don't know of a single mmo that doesn't have PvE prior to end game. Heck even Neverwinter made you do the exact same quests over and over for alts.

I seriously don't see the issue, if you want a bunch of high level alts of course you gotta do the same things over. And if you are new, well then just play the game

k2blader

Waffennacht wrote: »

Vet 16 no silver done, I was a primarily PvE player so I took my time questing. Then started PvP and got addicted. I, based on forum numbers, am one of the slowest levelers out there.

If you just wanna PvP only, well, um of course you gotta PvE! I don't know of a single mmo that doesn't have PvE prior to end game. Heck even Neverwinter made you do the exact same quests over and over for alts.

I seriously don't see the issue, if you want a bunch of high level alts of course you gotta do the same things over. And if you are new, well then just play the game

I quit WoW some time ago, but they've made it so leveling is much faster than ESO's system. Skill points aren't based on running around gathering stuff or doing specific quests. They've also provided helpful stuff like heirloom gear which scales and is wearable by any character.

[edit]
Also wanted to add I PvP-leveled because you actually could and still enjoy yourself thanks to the level tiered aspect of battlegrounds. You could get good gear via PvP using honor points earned via PvP. So your claim is just "funny" to me. lol

phbell

Well, I have 6 characters, all of them VR. The lowest is V11 and I have two VR16 toons. The rest are scattered between. How did I get them to VR? The same way everyone else has - by running through Cadwell's Silver and Gold again and again (6X). In fact, I am currently plowing through Cadwell's Gold on my latest (and last) character and although it is mind-numbingly boring at times, I really don't mind. I am leveling at about 1 VR rank for every 2-3 hours played and should be at VR16 soon enough. It is what it is and it will be worth the effort because I will have characters in all three alliances and will be able to play whichever style the situation calls for - be it DPS or heals (I am not interested in tanking.)

All this said - I do not support any changes to the VR system and i pray that ZOS just leaves it alone. People will always find a reason to complain, however leaving it alone is the fairest for all that have gone before. No progression means no reason to play (or pay).

Anilahation

Let's be honest people quit when they see how much of a grind veteran ranks are.

that's why they should be removed.

can't tell you how many times I've heard people enjoy the game to 50 then see this huge boring grind and just leave.


I have every class maxed out in WoW,SWTOR,Destiny,borderlands but guess what not a single character in ESO even though I've had this game since launch. So I have the will to level up it's just that ESO level designed is so toxic...

YeOldeGamer

Imo nothing is wrong with them. Some people are just lazy and it takes less effort to come here and cry for nerfs.

Saltypretzels

With battle scaling and adjustments to CP and and XP needed to gain levels, I don't think they need to get rid of vet levels anymore. In fact it would make sense to keep adding them on a twice a year basis.

What they need to do is allow ALL of the weapon, armor, and jewerly sets to always drop at the highest vet level available. This would greatly increase the diversity of builds and equipment available at the max level and make trials mean something again.

Do this final part and I would say the vet level problem is fixed.

mrdankles

Takes way too long to reach max vet level

zornyan

JoseDelgadoCub17_ESO wrote: »

Let's be honest people quit when they see how much of a grind veteran ranks are.

that's why they should be removed.

can't tell you how many times I've heard people enjoy the game to 50 then see this huge boring grind and just leave.


I have every class maxed out in WoW,SWTOR,Destiny,borderlands but guess what not a single character in ESO even though I've had this game since launch. So I have the will to level up it's just that ESO level designed is so toxic...

You haven't played a proper mmo.

Anarchy online, eve online, Ultima online, DOAC, ever quest , a realm reborn etc etc.

Most if not all of these games require weeks and months of grinding, anarchy, eve especially take a minimum of 6 months to get near end game, eve can take years to get everything.

Hell even skyrim took me a few weeks to level up to a high level.

You can get to vr 16 in under a week, without grinding. That's hardly a big grind.

Don't ever use destiny as an example, it took 8 odd hours to do the entire story in that, but some people (myself included) spent 3 months repeating the same raid to get to level 30, that's right 3 MONTHS for ONE LEVEL .

Yeah not grindy at all...

Shunravi

mrdankles wrote: »

Takes way too long to reach max vet level

Question; now that the new max level after vet removal will be 501cp (or whatever the next cap will be), how are you liking that significantly longer grind?