Stam DKs

olivaresdonjuan

Currently my dk is doing about 2500 with the initial strike and 5000+ over time. Not bad for an ability that only costs me 400 stamina. It will cost even less when I get more cp points. I'm talking about unstable flame.

gashuffer75

Ok, so based on what I'm seeing, unstable flame, fossilize and igneous shield are pretty important to use.

Thanks all.

Maulkin

gashuffer75 wrote: »

Ok, so based on what I'm seeing, unstable flame, fossilize and igneous shield are pretty important to use.

Thanks all.

The answer is a bit more complicated. It really depends on how you play, on your group size etc. All these skills are useful depending on the build...

- Scales
- Unstable Flame
- Fossilize
- Igneous Shield
- Razor Armor
- Take Flight
- Engulfing Flames

The problem is those are 7 skills and you have only 12 possible slots. You still need some single target strong damage, some heals, some buff skills etc.

So it really depends how you set up to play.

Master_Kas

gashuffer75 wrote: »

Ok, so based on what I'm seeing, unstable flame, fossilize and igneous shield are pretty important to use.

Thanks all.

As some people pointed out, do not run stamina dk without take flight (not the shield morph) !

Xsorus

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

So what you're saying is, Unstable Flame is useless to stamina users because that does flame damage also?

Come on guys, think. It's not that hard.

Stamina Whip would be useless because there are better skills like Heroic Slash, Puncture or Wrecking Blow that scale with Mighty.

Do you have a better DoT than unstable flame? One that reaches the same damage and that scales with Mighty? No. So it's not useless is it? It's your prime DoT.

The only physical/bleed DoT at your disposal is Rending Slashes, the first skill from the DW line. But bleeds, as an intended mechanic by Wrobel (which btw I don't agree with) , don't tick on shields. And they don't tick on undead monsters either. So you need to equip a particular weapon to get a physical DoT skill and that DoT will not tick on half the players and half the monsters.

So despite Unstable Flame scaling with an undesirable CP passive it's your best DoT and not useless. Stamina Whip would be useless because there are better alternatives from the commonly used weapon lines (S&B, 2H) and there are better skills on the DK trees to convert to stamina than Whip (like Stone Fist).

Well, two things.

1. You can't use heroic slash with two hander; wrecking blow also isn't super great all the time in comparsion to an instant attack
2. What makes you think whip would be flame damage? For example concealed attack vs surprise attack, surprise attack was made physical damage when it was made stamina based.

Maulkin

Xsorus wrote: »

Well, two things.

1. You can't use heroic slash with two hander; wrecking blow also isn't super great all the time in comparison to an instant attack
2. What makes you think whip would be flame damage? For example concealed attack vs surprise attack, surprise attack was made physical damage when it was made stamina based.

Sure...

1. That's why plenty of people use S&B with their 2H. I don't see the problem, nor (as a Sorc) do I understand the expectation to have every type of attack without having to equip a suitable weapon. If I don't equip destro staff for crushing shock, I have no instant attack either. If I don't equip resto, I have no heals. Is it a big deal? Not really. Not to mention that DK passives synergise rather well with S&B. Anyway this whole point is redundant as I'm in fact proposing to give DKs an instant physical melee attack.

2. Because Unstable Flame and Engulfing Flames remained flame damage.

As I said, Magicka DKs would lose a lot by switching one morph of whip to stamina. Which I don't understand at all since stamina DK is a lot stronger than magicka DK atm. On the other hand they would lose nothing but only gain by making a morph of Stone Fist melee and stamina scaling/costing.

Vangy

Hmm my stam DK is running a pretty solid build thats based of the Bullseye build posted earlier on these forums.

2H:

Crit rush, WB, exec, obsidian shield, rally + dragon leap,

Bow:

Silver shards, Bombard, molten weapons, Camo hunter, (flexi slot) i tend to use flappy wings/fossilize/vigor here + Flawless dawnbreaker

See vamp/WW, Rally>camo hunter>Molten weapons. Charge heavy attack with bow animation cancel with SS = vamp/WW ( in ww form) Insta death.

For non-ww/vamps, follow up the above combo with dragon leap or Fossilize + dragon leap. With 60 points in mighty it hits like a truck.

For burst heals > igneous shields > re-cast rally (assuming u casted it when fight started)> vigor. Sick heals.

So id say the only class skills i use are igneous, molten wep, dragon leap and fossilize. Not too bad i guess.

Tomato

2H / Bow

Executioner
Crit Charge
Wrecking Blowing
Camo Hunter
Rally
Flawless Dawnbreaker

Vigor
Fossilize
Igneous Shield
Shuffle
Reflect
Take Flight

With Rally and food buffs up I have:

3900 Weapon damage
57% Crit
1700 Stamina recovery

I run the food buff that has 5000 hp and 470 stamina recovery. I mainly use the bow for light / heavy attacks to have some mobility and build up my ultimate faster. I put fossilize on my second bar because it seems when I'm healing I need to stun them sometimes and slow down the fight plus it gives me a chance to pop shuffle again before I switch back to my main bar for rally then damage abilities.

I_killed_Vivec

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

2. Because Unstable Flame and Engulfing Flames remained flame damage.

This whole argument is based on "it would be useless because it would be fire and scale off elemental".

It doesn't have to be so

Now that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be so, or even that a Stam Whip would be a good idea, just that the objections don't stand up.

Saying that weapon skills make up for a lack of stamina whip is precisely the argument for it - why does a Stam DK have to ignore class skills and only use weapon skills available to everyone? If you're only using weapon skills you'd be better off as a Sorc with shields or a NB with cloak rather than a DK with... well, not very much.

Maulkin

There's 3 parts to this...

Part 1:

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

2. Because Unstable Flame and Engulfing Flames remained flame damage.

This whole argument is based on "it would be useless because it would be fire and scale off elemental".

It doesn't have to be so

I concede that in the realm of programming possibilities they could make a skill called molten whip, or flame lash that will be physical instead of elemental damage. It doesn't make sense, but it's possible.

Part 2:

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Now that doesn't mean that it wouldn't be so, or even that a Stam Whip would be a good idea, just that the objections don't stand up.

No, 1 argument being countered does not mean the whole list of arguments is. That's a major stretch. The objections (plural) were...

...the fact that magicka DK needs both morphs of the flame whip more than a stam DK needs a stam whip right now.

...or the fact that even a phys dmg stam whip is not optimal for one mode of the game, PvE. From a PvE stam DKs pont-of-view max'ing elemental expert would give far better overall damage thanks to Unstable Flame, Engulfing Flames, Banner and the newly added elemental Stam Whip (bear in mind stam DKs need more PvE help than PvP help atm). The point being whichever type of damage stam whip does, one side of stam DKs won't be happy and it'll cause controversy. Never mind the controversy with magicka DKs. The change will be toxic and will leave more DKs unhappy than happy.

...or the fact that Stone Fist is a more suitable candidate due to already being phys dmg AND belonging in a tree where the passives benefit stam builds more, like the stam return from Helping Hands and Minor Brutality from Mountain's Blessing.

These are all objections that still stand.

Part 3:

I_killed_Vivec wrote: »

Saying that weapon skills make up for a lack of stamina whip is precisely the argument for it - why does a Stam DK have to ignore class skills and only use weapon skills available to everyone? If you're only using weapon skills you'd be better off as a Sorc with shields or a NB with cloak rather than a DK with... well, not very much.

"Not very much"...That's a ridiculous exaggeration and a clear example of "grass is always greener on the other side" thinking. As this thread shows there are many (8 in fact) class skills that are very useful to stam DKs. The fact none of them are direct damage does not make those skills worthless.

Alcast has demonstrated that currently stam DK makes the game's best ganker due to Igneous Weapons. Also stam DKs are THE current meta for 1v1 fights and duelling. They have the best healing out of all stam builds due to Igneous Shield, a great undodgeable/unblockable double CC in fossilise, one of the best defensive mechanisms against casters in Scales, they are the only stam build with good DoTs which help keep pressure....they even have a decent way to pull NBs out of cloak with inferno (useful in a duel setting, but not really in open world). And I'm not even touching on the passives since we're talking about skills.

The whole "stam DKs got nothing" is a logical fallacy that defies reason. They don't have a direct damage class ability, period. They have much, much else.

Saint314Louis1985

gashuffer75 wrote: »

Yeah, I use Coagulating blood as I don't have Vigor yet. It's not great, but it adds a second heal. Maybe I'll drop it and use Talons or Heroic Slash in it's place and see how that goes until I get Vigor for the heal.

I don't get to play all that much/ But when I do, I've been focusing on leveling. Hence why I'm only v14, which is a milestone because now I can at least try and get my monster set.

Thank you all for the help. This should speed up my learning curve. I can't keep up with all of the changes from IC. I read about the updates, but it's a totally different thing to actually use the abilities.

My bars look like this right now:

2H:
Rally
Stampede
Wrecking Blow
Executioner
Fossilize
DawnBreaker

S&S:
Unstable Flame
Pierce Armor (Should probably change to Ransack)
Igneous Shield
Hardened Armor (Should probably change to Volatile)
Coagulating Blood (Heroic Slash for more Ult)
Standard of Might or Ferocious Leap

i run almost the same exact set up only my bars are a little different.

my bars are:

2H:

executioner
stampede
wrecking blow
rally
igneous shield
dawnbreaker

I put igneous shield on the same bar because i usually battle with my 2H, and need the extra stam boosts when using the 2H. Also, it helps my rally burst heals if i pop igneous shield right before recharging rally which i use as my main heal.

SnS:

pierce armor
hardened armor
fossilize
coagulating blood
vigor
take flight

I put coagulating blood on same bar as vigor to buff the healing for vigor. and fossilize on the bar with sword n shield to give extra defense while im trying to nail the opponent with fossilize.

just to throw it out there since we run very similar setups, i run the following gear:

helm: medium armor monster helm with + 1k health bonus
shoulders: heavy armor molag kena for weap dmg
rest: v16 shield breaker for weap dmg + stam recovery
jewelry: v16 endurance ammy and rings with weap dmg enchants

Im planning on switching it slightly, and going with endurance 2H sword and switching to affliction ammy and affliction chest for the + weap damage and all i would lose is the shieldbreaker 5th pc bonus. this would also keep the 5 medium passive for + weap damage.

My race is nord. I run purple v15 food. All in all at v16 with about 160 CP i have 19.5k health (24k in pvp), 29k stam, around 20k resists with hardened armor active, 3.2k weap dmg (3.7k with rally and weap dmg proc on 2H) and 1.2k stam regen. When i switch to affliction gear my weapon damage and resists should increase slightly.

Im curious as to what gear youre running.

Also, any thoughts or recommendations from anyone are welcome.

gashuffer75

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

i run almost the same exact set up only my bars are a little different.

my bars are:

2H:

executioner
stampede
wrecking blow
rally
igneous shield
dawnbreaker

I put igneous shield on the same bar because i usually battle with my 2H, and need the extra stam boosts when using the 2H. Also, it helps my rally burst heals if i pop igneous shield right before recharging rally which i use as my main heal.

SnS:

pierce armor
hardened armor
fossilize
coagulating blood
vigor
take flight

I put coagulating blood on same bar as vigor to buff the healing for vigor. and fossilize on the bar with sword n shield to give extra defense while im trying to nail the opponent with fossilize.

just to throw it out there since we run very similar setups, i run the following gear:

helm: medium armor monster helm with + 1k health bonus
shoulders: heavy armor molag kena for weap dmg
rest: v16 shield breaker for weap dmg + stam recovery
jewelry: v16 endurance ammy and rings with weap dmg enchants

Im planning on switching it slightly, and going with endurance 2H sword and switching to affliction ammy and affliction chest for the + weap damage and all i would lose is the shieldbreaker 5th pc bonus. this would also keep the 5 medium passive for + weap damage.

My race is nord. I run purple v15 food. All in all at v16 with about 160 CP i have 19.5k health (24k in pvp), 29k stam, around 20k resists with hardened armor active, 3.2k weap dmg (3.7k with rally and weap dmg proc on 2H) and 1.2k stam regen. When i switch to affliction gear my weapon damage and resists should increase slightly.

Im curious as to what gear youre running.

Also, any thoughts or recommendations from anyone are welcome.

Thanks for the input. I'm glad I'm not totally off on my build then.

I did change up the morphs a little bit the other day, but nothing crazy. Crit rush instead of Stampede, Ransack instead of the other morph and then Volatile instead of Hardened armor.

I'm only V14, but I run this gear....don't laugh.

I don't remember which pieces are which, but I wear 5/5 Hundings (4 Heavy and 2H Mace) and then Monster shoulders (light) and 1 Way of Air Set (Medium) and then a 5th heavy, I forget what it was. All blue, all V14.

My S&S is a Hundings shield and a random V12 purple Mace, which I will change out at some point here.

My jewelry is just blue, reduced stam cost and +stam.

I used to run 5/5 Hundings (4/5 armor + 2H) and then 5/5 White Strakes (3/5 + 1H and Shield), which worked out nicely.

Saint314Louis1985

We all started somewhere

Im not sure if you like to tank or dps. If you are a true tank 5 heavy armor is what you should go for but if you're more into dps definitely switch to medium armor. You will deal much more damage and sustain much better. You can even tank most (not all) vet dungeons with the setup i listed above with your self heals and sustain.

Going off your skills it kinda seems like youre a dps. I could be wrong tho it wouldnt be the first time lol

Valen_Byte

Considering Unstable Flame is the only stam morph (WTF Zo$) you should use that...then just use 2h and wrecking blow everything in site.

gashuffer75

Saint314Louis1985 wrote: »

We all started somewhere

Im not sure if you like to tank or dps. If you are a true tank 5 heavy armor is what you should go for but if you're more into dps definitely switch to medium armor. You will deal much more damage and sustain much better. You can even tank most (not all) vet dungeons with the setup i listed above with your self heals and sustain.

Going off your skills it kinda seems like youre a dps. I could be wrong tho it wouldnt be the first time lol

I was using medium up until IC but then changed to Heavy for a few reasons, but one was to see if that would help with all of the nerfs that DKs got tangled up with. I did notice my DPS go down a bit, but my durability went up quite a bit. As it should with going to Heavy.

The other reason is since I don't really get on all that much and was hoping I could find groups quicker for dungeons. Becoming a tank however, didn't make much difference in the Que times at all. Hopefully the updates to the Group finder will actually work better.

katcali

Stam DK, I'm rocking right at 4k weapon damage. As a Stam Based DK, If your weapon damage isn't above 3k, you're not maximizing your abilities. Stam Base means you should be ALL OUT Weapon Damage. Under 3k and you're missing something. Skills?.? Use every skill based off weapon damage, Unstable Flame, and Flame breath are the only 2 that morph to scale off weapon damage. So if you are a Stam Based, those are the only 2 that should peak your interest. As for all the other options people are talking about in this feed, Most of those options are all wards for defense, also all magic abilities. Yes you need them and yes they are good ideas, and must haves, But they don't reflect being Stam Based.

Helgi_Skotina

2h -
critical rush - is needed to come closer to enemies
wreking blow - just spam it
GDB - stamina regen and together with igneous still good self-heal, vigor is not enough when you fight 1vs3
forward momentum - allways has to be on amd heals snares
fossilize - not blockable
ferocious leap - 14k damage AOE + stun

duals -
steel tornado - AOE to kill cloaking NBs or running low health enemies
caltrops - the most needed skill, a slow enemy isnt an enemy anymore
resolving vigor - healing
igneous shield - allways has to be on for 33% more healing
dragon fire scales - must be
ice comet - another huge damage, but long loading time

Unstable flame or lava whip have no use at a stamina build. WB does 3 times more damage. Lava is made to be used with talons, and you will have not enough magicka to use it on a stamina build.

dodgehopper_ESO

*Razor Armor (Armor/Sr boost and damage reflect)
*Coagulating Blood (Better Incoming heals)
*Igneous Shield (Good self shield, small team shield, gives major mending which can make your rally/vigor way better)
*Petrify while not NECESSARY (there are other cc in the game) is an awesome CC, and worth considering if you can handle its magicka cost.
*Fiery Breath is actually interesting because it can grant major fracture in a cone, as well as a snare thanks to passives. Not shabby if you ask me. The DoT is nice though purge-able, but really this as a secondary effect on my character.

On the matter of ultimates you might like to consider Flawless Dawnbreaker, like any weapon damage build should. The cost is low and you'll be able to take advantage of Battle Roar self heals, as well as being able to fire it off fairly often thanks to your liberal use of Igneous shield/Petrify when needed.

The class ultimates are all pretty good, though I personally favor having take flight or ferocious leap because of the low cost (and battle roar returns). I like magma armor, particularly the corrosive armor version, but if you play a healing DK, I'd suggest you go for the other morph which gives them a protective shield synergy equal to 100% of their health. Also if you use magma armor you are very likely to want to use molten armaments.

I use to like the standard more, and its still pretty good for flag defense (or any kind of defense when you're trying to guard a specific location).