Stam DKs

gashuffer75

Are there any "must use" class skills anymore for Stam DKs in PVP?

I feel like Talons, Lava Whip(or morphs) and Fossilize may be, but I'm not so sure anymore....

I feel like I don't use my class skills as much as I should.

Any thoughts?

AfkNinja

I'm not a DK but you'd probly wanna maximize your Rally/Vigor heals with Igneous Shield and Coagulated blood?

sabresandiego_ESO

Stam DKs Class skills to use for sure are igneous shield, dragon leap, and unstable flame. I also recommend any morph of razor armor. Everything else is optional. I personally use burning breath as well.

gashuffer75

Rally/Vigor are not class skills.

I use Igneous Shield, Hardened Armor and Coagulating Blood. I'll give Unstable Flame a shot and see how that goes.

I'm currently running 2H/SS. But I don't seem to ever do well in a 1v1. Maybe I just need to get a bit more practice at it. I'm wearing 5/5 Hundings (2H Mace), Monster shoulders 2/5 Air set and have like 2300 weapon damage. 5 heavy 2 med.

CyrusArya

Stamina DKs are defined really by 2 class skills and 1 passive: Igneous Shield, Take Flight, and Battle Roar. Igneous shield will allow you the strongest rally/vigor self-healing in the game as well as return stamina on demand. With upwards of 30k stam, igneous shield returns quite a bit. Take Flight hits like a truck and is a great skill to chain with a number of other abilities. Battle Roar is what will keep you going, and is like having a free tri pot whenever the ult is up. Combine that with an actual tri pot and Stam knights have excellent sustain in PvP. Between these three skills, stam DKs have the luxury of being able to actively return their resources in a way most other classes cannot.

Unstable Flame and Hardened/Volatile armor are also good choices but are not necessary for a successful stam dk. Situationally, such as in duels or group play, Fossilize is an excellent fill in. The rest of the DK class skills are a waste of magicka that would be better spent on your magicka dump, igneous shield.

Stamina DKs rely less on class skills than any other build. Instead, you can consider them to be weapons masters who hone the use of the weapon trees and complement that with their class skills. Now you might think this is unfair or underwhelming. But because the 2h tree is arguably the best offensive skill line in the whole game, and DKs make most efficient use of this tree, stam knights can be one of the most formidable PvP builds in the game.

All that being said, we could still use some buffs to be competitive because these perks and the engaging playstyle (my favorite in the game) are basically null in the face of 7-10k instacast surprise attacks.

gashuffer75

Thank you for the input. I will try changing a few skills out. I use the shield morph of Leap. Maybe I'll swap back over to the extra damage morph. I run Dawnbreaker on my 2H bar and Leap on my SS bar.

I usually have a problem with landing uppercuts in 1v1s. Maybe part of that is the other player can focus on avoiding it as I don't put other forms of pressure on, like dots or CC. I'm not completely sure. I'll keep practicing tho.

I'm sure I'll run into more 1v1s in IC. That's really where I am doing my grind from v14-v16.

Alucardo

Unstable flame is one of the best DoTs this game has to offer, and it's stamina based. There's no way I wouldn't use this on my stam DK builds.
Igneous Shield is pretty much a must have. The shield it provides is pretty poor, but the additional benefits it gives are definitely worth it.
If you're finding survival tough, run Hardened/Volatile armour for some extra resistance. Volatile morph is good for taking NBs out of stealth because of its AoE effect. If you need the resistance and don't have room on your bar, make room.
Any morph of Dragon Blood just plain sucks. Like seriously, I wouldn't even recommend slotting it.
Scales. Use it sparingly - primarily when facing perma-swallow soul NBs or sorcs. But yeah, this ability has saved my life countless times. Despite its nerfs, it's still one of the coolest skills you'll find.
Take Flight. Low ultimate cost, high damaging, enemy flinging ability. Yeah, you want this. Not only is it useful, but because the cost of it is what I'd consider "medium" (not too low, not too high), it's a good Ultimate to use for Battle Roar.
It fills up fairly quickly, but the cost is good enough to get some decent resources back.

gashuffer75

Yeah, I use Coagulating blood as I don't have Vigor yet. It's not great, but it adds a second heal. Maybe I'll drop it and use Talons or Heroic Slash in it's place and see how that goes until I get Vigor for the heal.

I don't get to play all that much/ But when I do, I've been focusing on leveling. Hence why I'm only v14, which is a milestone because now I can at least try and get my monster set.

Thank you all for the help. This should speed up my learning curve. I can't keep up with all of the changes from IC. I read about the updates, but it's a totally different thing to actually use the abilities.

My bars look like this right now:

2H:
Rally
Stampede
Wrecking Blow
Executioner
Fossilize
DawnBreaker

S&S:
Unstable Flame
Pierce Armor (Should probably change to Ransack)
Igneous Shield
Hardened Armor (Should probably change to Volatile)
Coagulating Blood (Heroic Slash for more Ult)
Standard of Might or Ferocious Leap

AGrz5585

So since this is a st am dk thread, don't mean to derail it, which is better racial choice. Redguard, imperial or khajiit? Thanx in advance

gashuffer75

All are good options.

Alucardo

AGrz5585 wrote: »

So since this is a st am dk thread, don't mean to derail it, which is better racial choice. Redguard, imperial or khajiit? Thanx in advance

Redguard and Imperial are probably best. Redguard more for the sustain. Though I like Imperial because it means I don't have to dump points into health. That 12% max health got me covered. I always choose Imp personally, though Redguard is pretty on-par.

Orchish

You want Take Flight or the other Morph if you want a bit of tankyness, Igneous Shield for the hea boost, the shield it's self is pathetic though. You can use Unstable flame as well it's probably the best dot in the game but obviously very unreliable since Templars,Nightblades will easily remove it and most sorcs can too. pretty much the only class it is useful against ironically are Stam DKs.

Don't bother with Talons or Lava Whip for Stam DK. you won't have the Magicka to effectively use those skills. Fozzilize is a good one though. I often swap that on and off my bar depending on the situations. Drop dragon blood for Vigor, it's pretty much useless in PvP these days. If you have Immovable pots get Corrosive armour as one of your ults, use this when you drink a pot and you can destroy most targets that don't bolt escape or cloak away from you. Leap is perfect for most situations although bugs out A LOT. often it will use half your ult and your wings will stick to your feet. It's easily countered as well since you can't use it when rooted but still a great ultimate.

Although Stam DK can be very strong if you know what you're doing, sadly we only use 2-3 class abilities 4 at a push. The DK as a whole isn't as great these days. A stam whip would be lovely. Hint hint ZoS.

Alucardo

Orchish wrote: »

Although Stam DK can be very strong if you know what you're doing, sadly we only use 2-3 class abilities 4 at a push. The DK as a whole isn't as great these days. A stam whip would be lovely. Hint hint ZoS.

Yes, stam whip. Also, an Ardent Flame passive called Unpurgable Flame that makes ardent flame dots "stick" and actually burn through shields. A majority of my damage comes from DoTs, so it sucks balls when a NB cloaks it off immediately or a sorc just laughs behind his shields.

Orchish

AGrz5585 wrote: »

So since this is a st am dk thread, don't mean to derail it, which is better racial choice. Redguard, imperial or khajiit? Thanx in advance

Orc, more damage, bit of extra speed which helps out a tiny bit considering mobility is very important these days. Max health and Stamina + 30% extra health recovery which sounds utterly crap but on many occations when i am on my last breath about to die that tiny extra bit of healing has kept me alive long enough to pop Corrosive armour or drink a pot to keep me in the fight.

I am biased though Redguard is good, but if you want to be a more tanky DK go Imperial.

Alucardo

Actually yeah, Orc is pretty nice now. I'd choose that race if they didn't look like green pigs.

Orchish

I resent that.

Alucardo

Orchish wrote: »

I resent that.

Haha, come on, you know it to be true

Orchish

Well when i visited Orsinium, one of the Orc chiefs told me i was a beautiful big butterfly when he took me back to his longhouse !

Dekkameron

Alucardo wrote: »

Actually yeah, Orc is pretty nice now. I'd choose that race if they didn't look like green pigs.

Hey my stam DK doesnt look either green or a pig!

Alucardo

Dekkameron wrote: »

Hey my stam DK doesnt look either green or a pig!

Hmm, a slightly pale green. But a cute pig to be sure.

Maulkin

Alucardo wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

Although Stam DK can be very strong if you know what you're doing, sadly we only use 2-3 class abilities 4 at a push. The DK as a whole isn't as great these days. A stam whip would be lovely. Hint hint ZoS.

Yes, stam whip. Also, an Ardent Flame passive called Unpurgable Flame that makes ardent flame dots "stick" and actually burn through shields. A majority of my damage comes from DoTs, so it sucks balls when a NB cloaks it off immediately or a sorc just laughs behind his shields.

Two things...

1) Unstable Flame is insanely effective on shields. Shields don't purge dots and they take full unmitigated damage from the highest DoT in the game. Against Sorc, it makes them go on the defensive and shield spam which gives you the opportunity to keep pressure and unload burst

2) Stamina whip is THE most terrible idea regarding DKs. It's on a par with replacing Battle Roar with a passive that gives your char a pink tutu every time you activate an ultimate. That's how bad it is. It'd be a nerf for all DKs.

Alucardo

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

2) Stamina whip is THE most terrible idea regarding DKs. It's on a par with replacing Battle Roar with a passive that gives your char a pink tutu every time you activate an Earthen Heart ability. That's how bad it is. It'd be a nerf for all DKs.

Thank you for not explaining why, and instead giving an outrageously exaggerated response

Orchish

How on earth would it nerf DK making one of the whip morphs a stamina morph?

Orchish

Orchish wrote: »

How on earth would it nerf DK making one of the whip morphs a stamina morph?

As for this comment "It's on a par with replacing Battle Roar with a passive that gives your char a pink tutu every time you activate an ultimate. That's how bad it is. It'd be a nerf for all DKs." That has to be one of the most idiotic thing's i have read on here in a long time. No offence meant.

Maulkin

Alucardo wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

2) Stamina whip is THE most terrible idea regarding DKs. It's on a par with replacing Battle Roar with a passive that gives your char a pink tutu every time you activate an Earthen Heart ability. That's how bad it is. It'd be a nerf for all DKs.

Thank you for not explaining why, and instead giving an outrageously exaggerated response

Sigh.

Both morphs of the whip are extremely useful to DKs. One is a PvP morph that provides some necessary heals (since Dragon Blood became *** poor) and the other increases flame DPS which is a staple of PvE builds. Making either of those stamina would be a big nerf to magicka DKs. That much should be obvious.

From the point of a stamina build they gain hardly anything. Whip is flame. It scales with Elemental Expert champion passive, not with Mighty. Given the CP cap, you can't put many points into Elemental Expert though Mighty should be your automatic choice as it buffs light attacks, bashes, wrecking blows, heroic slashes, take flights etc etc.

Heroic Slash + 25% damage (from mighty) > Whip without Elemental Expert. You'd still prefer slash over whip. So stamina builds gain nothing.

If you guys didn't have such a bizarre hard-on about Flame Whip you'd realize that what you need is a stamina morph Stone Fist with some alterations (like making it melee and slightly boost the damage). It's physical damage so it scales with Mighty, it's a knock-down, it has a heal component, it procs Helping Hands which returns stamina, it fits with the stamina theme more than a magic flame whip.

All of that is rather obvious if you study the class and it has been said countless of times, on countless threads.

Bashev

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

Although Stam DK can be very strong if you know what you're doing, sadly we only use 2-3 class abilities 4 at a push. The DK as a whole isn't as great these days. A stam whip would be lovely. Hint hint ZoS.

Yes, stam whip. Also, an Ardent Flame passive called Unpurgable Flame that makes ardent flame dots "stick" and actually burn through shields. A majority of my damage comes from DoTs, so it sucks balls when a NB cloaks it off immediately or a sorc just laughs behind his shields.

Two things...

1) Unstable Flame is insanely effective on shields. Shields don't purge dots and they take full unmitigated damage from the highest DoT in the game. Against Sorc, it makes them go on the defensive and shield spam which gives you the opportunity to keep pressure and unload burst

2k every 2 seconds are not enough to burn a sorc shield. 10k shield will be burned for how many seconds? Wait for, wait for , wait for yeah 10 seconds. Were you drunk when you wrote this or you are scared about your precious shield? believe me or not shields gonna be nerfed very hard soon. If not else the PvE arena proved them OP not only in PvP but in PvE too.

Alucardo

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Sigh.

Both morphs of the whip are extremely useful to DKs. One is a PvP morph that provides some necessary heals (since Dragon Blood became *** poor) and the other increases flame DPS which is a staple of PvE builds. Making either of those stamina would be a big nerf to magicka DKs. That much should be obvious.

From the point of a stamina build they gain hardly anything. Whip is flame. It scales with Elemental Expert champion passive, not with Mighty. Given the CP cap, you can't put many points into Elemental Expert though Mighty should be your automatic choice as it buffs light attacks, bashes, wrecking blows, heroic slashes, take flights etc etc.

Heroic Slash + 25% damage (from mighty) > Whip without Elemental Expert. You'd still prefer slash over whip. So stamina builds gain nothing.

If you guys didn't have such a bizarre hard-on about Flame Whip you'd realize that what you need is a stamina morph Stone Fist with some alterations (like making it melee and slightly boost the damage). It's physical damage so it scales with Mighty, it's a knock-down, it has a heal component, it procs Helping Hands which returns stamina, it fits with the stamina theme more than a magic flame whip.

All of that is rather obvious if you study the class and it has been said countless of times, on countless threads.

So what you're saying is, Unstable Flame is useless to stamina users because that does flame damage also?

olivaresdonjuan

A dk isn't for one shots.we are supposed wear our enemies down and hit them hard with our cc. Here's what I use, I'm no expert but it works good for me until the next dlc drops.

Bar 1: 2h Maul, sharpened, weapon damage enchantment
Critical Rush
Fossilize
Flames of oblivion/ evil hunter for IC
Wrecking blow
Unstable Flame
Ferocious Flight

Bar 2: s&b, defending, restore health enchantment
Defensive stance
Green dragon blood(will change to vigor when I unlock it)
Volatile armor
Pierce armor
Deep slash
Standard of might or ferocious flight, depends on what the team needs

Armor: all heavy with health enchantments, 5 hundings rage, 5 song of Lamae. I don't have time for expensive sets so I craft my own gear.

Jewelry: 3 piece of the endurance set

All points into stamina.

Also I'm recruiting for my guild and our EP community message my psn olivaresdonjuan if interested.

Brrrofski

I use ferocious leap, green dragon blood (purely for the stam regen) talons and reflective scale.

The latter two are used less often. I'll keep scales against sorcs. Talons I spam ifmy engine guardian is giving me magica.

I don't run igneous shield in pvp. I never feel I need that additional healing. I manage fine without it. Plus I play in a group, so it opens them all up to shield breaker arrow spammers.

Maulkin

Bashev wrote: »

mike.gaziotisb16_ESO wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Orchish wrote: »

Although Stam DK can be very strong if you know what you're doing, sadly we only use 2-3 class abilities 4 at a push. The DK as a whole isn't as great these days. A stam whip would be lovely. Hint hint ZoS.

Yes, stam whip. Also, an Ardent Flame passive called Unpurgable Flame that makes ardent flame dots "stick" and actually burn through shields. A majority of my damage comes from DoTs, so it sucks balls when a NB cloaks it off immediately or a sorc just laughs behind his shields.

Two things...

1) Unstable Flame is insanely effective on shields. Shields don't purge dots and they take full unmitigated damage from the highest DoT in the game. Against Sorc, it makes them go on the defensive and shield spam which gives you the opportunity to keep pressure and unload burst

2k every 2 seconds are not enough to burn a sorc shield. 10k shield will be burned for how many seconds? Wait for, wait for , wait for yeah 10 seconds. Were you drunk when you wrote this or you are scared about your precious shield? believe me or not shields gonna be nerfed very hard soon. If not else the PvE arena proved them OP not only in PvP but in PvE too.

I really don't care what you think about wards being nerfed soon. It's out of the context and I've heard all the arguments before.

If you don't see the value of 2k per second pressure on someone and their wards then.... that's on you. There's not a single DK I've seen that duels and does well that does not use unstable flame or burning embers to constantly tick on shields (or hp when the shields are down)

Your 10" argument is also irrelevant. It's a DoT, it does what DoTs do, it ticks over time. If you're standing for 10" waiting for the shield to go down then you're doing it wrong. There are skills that do +10k burst (like Take Flight) and skills that do 10k DoT (like unstable flame) and skills that weaved with light attacks do constant 4-6k damage (like Heroic Slash)

Individually they achieve nothing. That doesn't mean they're crap. It's their combination that helps you put huge pressure and eventually win the fight.

Stam DKs are THE strongest 1v1 class atm and Unstable Flame is a huge part of it. Before asking if other people are inebriated, I'd advise you to think a bit more. Or not, you can sit here and QQ all day about shields and your class for all I care.

Maulkin

Alucardo wrote: »

So what you're saying is, Unstable Flame is useless to stamina users because that does flame damage also?

Come on guys, think. It's not that hard.

Stamina Whip would be useless because there are better skills like Heroic Slash, Puncture or Wrecking Blow that scale with Mighty.

Do you have a better DoT than unstable flame? One that reaches the same damage and that scales with Mighty? No. So it's not useless is it? It's your prime DoT.

The only physical/bleed DoT at your disposal is Rending Slashes, the first skill from the DW line. But bleeds, as an intended mechanic by Wrobel (which btw I don't agree with) , don't tick on shields. And they don't tick on undead monsters either. So you need to equip a particular weapon to get a physical DoT skill and that DoT will not tick on half the players and half the monsters.

So despite Unstable Flame scaling with an undesirable CP passive it's your best DoT and not useless. Stamina Whip would be useless because there are better alternatives from the commonly used weapon lines (S&B, 2H) and there are better skills on the DK trees to convert to stamina than Whip (like Stone Fist).