Valkyn Skoria and Sorcerer Uselessness

magnusthorek

Is there anyone here that currently is able to beat Valkyn Skoria, on hard mode, using a Destruction Sorcerer or is it really impossible or only doable with CP maxed?

I tried several times, I improved my sorcerer a lot thanks to this change on how fast we gain CPs but, despite the awful difficulty to assemble a team that don't give up in the middle of fight (I suffer a lot with this), I just can't beat him.

Currently my Sorcerer is based upon Power Surge and Disintegration (Entropy) while spamming Force Pulse and Crystal Fragments when proc'ed. I wear a Molag Kena's medium shoulder with 4 Martial Knowledge, 2 Adoitness and Spell Power rings (because I can't find a pair for my Bando of Cyrodiil's Light at reasonable price)

In PvE, this grants an average of 8~12k of DPS, but this stupid dungeon it drops to 4, dishing 200k of total damage at most.

Why the Sorcerer class is so awful while others are so much better? I haven't played with all of them, of course, but I read, I study, I see videos and hell... Nightblades can do 112k of damage if hidden and I assume they can do pretty much 1/2 of this if not.

And still there an achievement to beat the whole sh*** in 30 minutes or less.

Can YOU, ZOS, beat this guy using such a useless class?

Scyantific

Hahahahahahahaha holy crap I'm not sure if you're serious or not.

Last time I ran VCOA I ran 18k DPS on him with a totally sub-optimal setup (forgot to swap to my Single Target setup and was running Skoria set + an AoE setup).

Like, do you even weave? Or use Liquid Lightning? Or ultimates?

Seriously, a v16 sorc can pull 10k minimum if they weave, curse, frags, entropy, and liquid lightning, and use any non-Overload ultimate.

Scyantific

What's your bar setup and rotation? You running dual swords or greatsword on back bar? What ultimates? Race?
I'd help you but without that info it's kinda hard to point you in the right direction.

If you're on PC get MyBuild from ESOUI and use that to post a screenshot of your entire build/stats and we'll go from there.

Nirnrot

Sorcerer a useless class??? Right now Stam Nightblades and Magicka Sorcerers are almost tied for the hardest hitting classes in the game. Also the most hated...lol Listen to @Scyantific and you'll be fine.

magnusthorek

OK, I'm not as experienced as you, I appreciate the, inappropriate of course, mock, but that's a sadly general consensus in this game.

I already said basically what I do during the fights, I just forgot to mention the fixed slotted Inner Light and Bound Aegis and, unfortunately, the constant need of Hardened Ward.

Class? Breton. Ultimate? Shooting Star.

And maybe I expressed myself wrongly, it's not the class itself, it's the magicka sorcerer. The simple fact of mention sorcerer as dual wielding or using anything different than a staff is more than enough proof that something is pretty bad.

Or there is a too much CP-related comment

Erraln

magnusthorek wrote: »

Is there anyone here that currently is able to beat Valkyn Skoria, on hard mode, using a Destruction Sorcerer ... ?

Yes, I can, and so can others. However, the hard mode challenge requires a good *group*, a single hot-shot dps can't carry four people through it, no matter their strength.

City of Ash does not reduce your damage by any set percentage. Some of the bosses have high defense, but that's normal amongst Veteran dungeons. Magicka sorceror is not a weak combination, and Breton is a useful race choice for such a character. Scyantific mentioned melee weapons, not to imply stamina builds, but because they strengthen class abilities more than staves do. Staves are some of the weakest weapons in the game, according to their pure damage addition. They make up for this with access to ranged light and heavy attacks, and of course the magic weapon lines. So because of these things, many magic users wear dual swords on a bar that they are only using class skills with. It's a build choice, but not a required one.

The force pulse with proc'd fragments combination is a popular and useful one, and I agree that the fight goes smoother with hardened ward equipped. Shooting Star can be good, but make sure you drop it where he's likely to stay put for the next 10 seconds or so; much of the skill's strength comes from the burning ground effect that lingers after it hits. If you can't, consider switching for Greater Atro or Dawnbreaker. Keep Magelight and Bound armor if you can, they are both helping increase your dps.

I also suggest Liquid Lightning, it's a very strong skill if you cast it properly. The target needs to be within it for much of the 10 seconds, though, so that's on you to place it right. All in all there's nothing wrong with the skills you are bringing to the table for this, it just needs to be executed properly.

A few questions for you, now, what are your CP and how are they placed? Do you light attack weave consistantly, or do you need that defined? Are you running out of magic? Is the boss getting loose and attacking you directly, or your health remaining at low levels during the fight (tank and healer problems)?

magnusthorek

If I recall correctly (I'm on my phone because of a storm), I have +/- 180 CPs as follows:

Warrior Constellation: 10 Elemental Defender and 50 on Bastion
Mage Constellation: 30 Elemental Expert and 30 Thaumaturge
Thief Constellation: 60 Arcanist, recently respec'ed

Yes, I'm constantly out of magicka. I tried to get my Engine Guardian's set but the only time I could pass the netches part and finish the dungeon, the helmet didn't drop. Because of this I'm often heavy attacking with my nirnhoned lightning staff with absorb magicka enchantment to recover a bit.

However, now that you said that about staves being weak plus the info I received that Force Pulse is based upon weapon damage, I might replace it with two swords. I'll have to study the set and check if Torug's Pact will be the best choice yet as of staff (paired with chest for the 2 pieces bonus).

About being targeted, even I waiting for the tank to taunt, sometimes I'm still being shoted first.

Scyantific

Alright it looks like you've got your CPs set up somewhat normally.

Your main rotation should be on your staff because that's the only way you can build ultimate with a magicka build unless you favor close range. Also heavy staff attacks return magicka so that's why you should be rolling a staff.

If you're having trouble with sustain, run Elemental Drain on your staff for the increased damage and magicka return. If you've got Mages Guild rank 10, you should be running Entropy on your staff bar for Frags procs, because of the Might of the Guild passive, which grants you 20% increased damage on your next attack, which can add up to 4-6k to your insta-cast frags.

Ill give some more in depth when I get home and can post on an actual computer.

magnusthorek

From what I can see I'm not doing anything wrong, but now I'm curious to see what is the point in dual wielding or having a 2h-sword on second bar. I'll study them tomorrow looking for buffing abilities or anything similar.

Since the very start I'm always following Deltia's Ignition Sorcerer, but I just can't achieve that success rate. Now I'm changing a few things here and there, but some dungeons are just not doable for me.

Usara

magnusthorek wrote: »

OK, I'm not as experienced as you, I appreciate the, inappropriate of course, mock, but that's a sadly general consensus in this game.

I am sorry if you feel mocked, but maybe you should have checked a few things before making such a comment to avoid such an awkward moment

Sorcerer magicka ? DA spec of the moment ^^
Impossible without being CP-maxed ? You probably don't know it , but this dungeon was out long before the CP system.

So you are not very experience with your class, no problem. But you come here asking ZoS, I quote,

magnusthorek wrote: »

Can YOU, ZOS, beat this guy using such a useless class?

Well, sorry, but of course you are going to be mocked. Don't say it's the general consensus to undermine other players when you come in here saying that kind of things. From my point of view, your comment was the inappropriate one in the first place.

So let's move on ^^

@Scyantific and @Erraln gave you starting points (btw Erraln, yes, one big DD can carry the other )

I've seen some strange things in this thread though.

You're using Engine Guardian @magnusthorek ? Well, that could be one of the first things to change in your build. This set is a tank one. Tanks are the only spec that need the three incoming resources. You're a magicka DD : what's the point to being fully recharged in stamina or health ?
Healers and DD using this set are doing something very wrong and would be better off with crafted stuff.

So for the gear...
I think I saw you mentioned you have a piece (the shoulder I assume) of Molag Kena set. This is the set you should be looking for. Complete it with the helmet (you can get it in White Gold Tower normal mode, in v15)
Either you choose to equip yourself with 4 Martial Knowledge (or 4 Overwhelming but... I honestly don't think it's in your reach, better stick with easier options) and 2 Torug, or 5 Julianos and have your staff with no set (once again, not sure the maelstrom staff is in your reach)
If you choose to have 2x swords you can go for Magnus or any crafted set that will give you a small bonus with 2 pieces, but that's only for your second bar (with your finish for exemple, or Overload if you switch to this ultimate, and I think you should)
You still need a staff in your main bar because you need it for weaving.
And the point is that currently, you have more spell power when wielding 2 swords or a greatsword if you have the corresponding passives.

Concerning the fact that you are one shot sometimes. I guess it's the attack I call "kamehameha"

When Skoria cast this attack (it rarely targets the tank, or well... one chance in four ^^) you HAVE TO block at the very least, or even better : dodge it.
If Skoria is turned in your direction : dodge. If you're not sure who is being targeted, you or the guy next to you/behind you ? Dodge.
You saved yourself from a sh*tload of damage, saved your healer magicka, and gain yourself time to DPS since you were not KB.

Scyantific

Dual Wielding Swords or using a Greatsword is because they provide way more spell damage than a staff because of the way weapons are coded.

5/1/1 Light/Medium/Heavy for more magicka from Undaunted bonus

AoE/"Trash mob" Setup (click the images for larger versions)

Bar 1 (Nirn Fire Staff) - Force Pulse/Frags/Fire Ring/Structured Entropy/Inner Light * Devouring Swarm
Bar 2 (2x Nirn Swords) - Mages' Wrath/Boundless Storm/Liquid Lightning/Power Surge/Inner Light * Energy Overload

This is the bar I use for taking out non-boss mobs in dungeons. Tons of DoT to proc Skoria (well, used to anyway). Devouring Swarm on bar for the regen bonus as well as an "OH ***" button when getting swarmed by mobs (I like to get in the middle of the action).

Single Target (aka Boss) Setup

Bar 1 - Force Pulse/Frags/Power Surge or Elemental Drain/Bound Aegis/Inner Light * Devouring Swarm
Bar 2 - Mages' Wrath/Hardened Ward or Power Surge/Liquid Lightning/Bound Aegis/Inner Light * Energy Overload

Pretty much as implied. I swap between surge and drain on my staff bar depending on whether our healer has ele drain slotted themselves, as it's a good source of mana while building ultimate. Once Ultimate is at a high amount, I swap over to my second bar and activate Overload, which deals ridiculous amounts of damage when fully buffed (you can get as high as 40k iirc, but that's with a completely min-maxed literal glass cannon build).

End-goals:
-Get 5x Julianos for increased crit rate and spell damage
-Get 4x Overwhelming set for increased spell damage
-Get Molag Kena set for single-target build (Kena procs off of Overload light attacks so it's very useful for overload builds)

I've been running this build since, probably around December/January when I started playing again, and have been constantly tweaking it based on changes to game balance. It's far from a perfect build, but the idea is that you should be able to run something similar to this and achieve the same results.

Hope this helps you.

Iduyenn

Google magicka +sorc + tamrielfoundry

With a good Group you 20k +

Johngo0036

@magnusthorek - Please can you give us insight into the following,

Are you using willpower jewelry - Spell Dmg Enchant?
What other gear are you using?

What is your max magicka, Spell Dmg and Spell Crit,
It is important that you realise that these all play a huge part in creating damage..

Also your 8 - 12K dps in PVE on which mobs are you getting this...

We were doing SO the other night i managed 32K DPS against mobs but could only get 12k-15k single dps..

magnusthorek

First of all, I want to apologize the way I wrote my first answer. I spent hours in that dungeon, assembling several different teams all the time because people just leave in the middle like if they're scared of Valkyn plus a couple healthy issues raising at that moment, when I saw the laughs, I took it harder than it could be intended by Scyantiific and spit a lot of sh*** I'm not used to.

Well, to answer once and for all what I'm using as gear, stat allocation and, of course, more precision about my Champion Points distribution, I'll take a picture of the report provided by MyBuild:



I didn't make them Epic because gold is difficult to get to me waste in wrongly applied Dreugh Wax. I've been trying to... "save" this sorcerer for so long without success. I've even considered converting her in a Stamina sorcerer, but the class would be less optimal as others with racial passives for Stamina (Redguard, if I'm not wrong).

My recent idea of "perfect" gear would be:

- Shoulders of Molag Kena
- Chest and Weapon of Torug's Pact
- Sash and Necklace of Adroitness
- Helmet, Gloves, Breeches and Shoes of Overwhelming Surge
- Rings of Cyrodiil's Light

But I can't find a group to do any run in White Gold Tower to get the Overwhelming Set items from mobs or gather the items to open the vault for, maybe, receive one. I don't know... I must be in the wrong guilds >.<

Finally, about the Molag Kena's full set, from what I can read of the description, I don't think it would be any good for considering I'm already struggling with my sustain.

Hlaadriel

Erraln wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

Is there anyone here that currently is able to beat Valkyn Skoria, on hard mode, using a Destruction Sorcerer ... ?

Yes, I can, and so can others. However, the hard mode challenge requires a good *group*, a single hot-shot dps can't carry four people through it, no matter their strength.

There are some dk magika DD pulling 30K dps that can carry the group alone if the tank does his job but they are rare

Septimus_Magna

Bar 1, nirn fire staff - force pulse, ele.drain, liquid lightning, bound aegis, inner light > shooting star
Bar 2, dual nirn swords - power surge, hardened ward, endless fury, bound aegis, inner light > power overload
Overload bar, power surge, hardened ward, liquid lighting, bound aegis, inner light

Dps on your destro bar should be around 10-12k with your setup.
Dps on your overload bar should be around 16-18k with your setup.

For max dps its better to switch to the Thief mundus stone.
For gear, try to get 5x Julianos, 1x Molag Kena, 2-3x Torugs Pact.

Cîanai

Erraln wrote: »

There are some dk magika DD pulling 30K dps that can carry the group alone if the tank does his job but they are rare

I didn't see anyone who can beat an overloading Sorc (magicka) in singletarget so far

Usara

magnusthorek wrote: »

My recent idea of "perfect" gear would be:

- Shoulders of Molag Kena
- Chest and Weapon of Torug's Pact
- Sash and Necklace of Adroitness
- Helmet, Gloves, Breeches and Shoes of Overwhelming Surge
- Rings of Cyrodiil's Light


Finally, about the Molag Kena's full set, from what I can read of the description, I don't think it would be any good for considering I'm already struggling with my sustain.

Ok, so first : your idea of the perfect gear is.... let's say kinda wrong

Adroitness + Cyrodiil light times are over now, Willpower set is a must have for all magicka builds : moar magicka, moar spellpower.
I agree this set ain't cheap, especially the perfect set with Arcane trait on the 3 jewels, but we are talking about "perfect" gear
Adroitness/Cyrodiil Light works for now, but you have to aim for the Willpower jewels.

Overwhelming is basically a mere upgrade of MK. So it certainly does work, but honestly, since it takes sooooo many runs and hours of grind in vWGT to get it with perfect traits...

In your place, I would aim for 5 piece Julianos, which you can craft.
Since you don't have Kena's helmet yet, I'd go with a couple of Torug : the last piece of armor, and a fire staff with nirnhoned trait if you can (or sharpened if you are broke/can't craft it).
2 Swords or a Greatsword of Torug in your alt bar.
That, with your Kena shoulder and 3 jewels of Willpower is the best you could do at your level.

Now, your champion points.

First, the red ones.

Unless you're doing PvP, don't go for Bastion. In PvE, sorcs should not spam their shields, unless they are magicka tanks. Which you are not.
Go for Elemental Defender mostly, and Thick Skinned and Hardy (so I am not much of a fan of Hardy since there is no Disease damage in PvE)

Now the blue points.

Erm... I don' mean to be mean... but... you do know you are a sorcerer right ? You do realise that 90% the damage you do is elemental damage (Shock and Fire mostly). Ok there's the shard, but you can't put all your points in Thaumaturge just for one skill. I'd say 1 point is ok, because 1% of damage for only one point spent is efficient, but not since you have so few CP.

Same there : you split the remaining points between Elemental Expert and Elfborn.
Those two have the same scale (1 point in each gives the same number) BUT Elfborn increase a bit the damage of your crits...whereas Elemental Expert increase flatly ALL your elemental damage.
Meaning : focus on Elemental Expert until you reach 100. Until then, just one point in Elfborn, and Erosion.

Now, the green points.

Perfect
Indeed, reducing the cost of a spell is way more profitable than the magicka regen - or at least, because of the grading system of the CP system, again.

Ok, now look at your gear : your shoulder are still enchanted in stamina : go for magicka. Same as your chest, go magicka.

Also, you should wear 5 light, 1 med and 1 heavy.
You're missing the heavy piece - so you're missing on 2% max magicka.

DRXHarbinger

^ someone actually posted something helpful for you there, the screen shots above don't follow those, somehow their stats are way to low.

But as above has said follow that, for your gear ( I assume you're console if you haven't done this yet ) you need around 3k spell damage, 2k is just not enough and your team will be carrying you, half the time it's the team that's the problem not you, you DO NOT NEED A TANK for this dungeon, it just slows it down, and hard mode is just a DPS race, you need a good healer and 3 decent DPS, to bring it down in time, Skill set I use for Dungeons is.

Magelight, Surge (because 20% more power), destructive clench ( mine does11K damage all in and stuns regular adds( with Light Staff ) and when speccd it does 100% damage to other nearby enemies so best AOE by far on the sorc ) do not use Impluse bosses are immune and Clench does more damage anyway. Frags and Annulment for this boss over Hardened ward, most of the damage you'll take is Magic rather than physical you'll live longer with it.

By the way as a Sorc you should be in Light armor and fill all the passives.

Clothing wise, hopefully you'll have MK Shoulders, the rest a good grind of WGT will hopefully land you either the Scathing Mage or Overwhelming sets, these sets are the best sets a Sorc can get, 4 pieces does nicely, 3 piece will power all Arcane and SP Damage and hopefully once you've farmed these sets you'll have the MK helm, TP's crafted set will go nicely too if you or someone can craft it at V16 for you.

Champ points go with the above, mine are different but it sounds perfectly fine, I stuffed all the greens into recovery, pointless fighting bosses if you can't sustain magika, ideally your Magika recovery needs to be at least 1k to fight Dungeon bosses properly, also for the Staff enchantment try and by the Prismatic rune, a purple on V16 does 1300+ damage to undead and Daedra, pretty damn good, use a light staff though, the damage is instant and I find they cycle quicker, plus the enchantment effect is at the start so if you have to cancel the attack at least you got some damage off, Flame and frost staffs are just tedious at times, plus the stun from the clench attack will come in handy for the flame atronarchs.

magnusthorek

Usara wrote: »

Ok, so first : your idea of the perfect gear is.... let's say kinda wrong

Adroitness + Cyrodiil light times are over now, Willpower set is a must have for all magicka builds : moar magicka, moar spellpower.

I agree this set ain't cheap, especially the perfect set with Arcane trait on the 3 jewels, but we are talking about "perfect" gear
Adroitness/Cyrodiil Light works for now, but you have to aim for the Willpower jewels.

The idea of this combo came not only because Willpower is expensive but also because I've found, I don't remember where exactly, that the Spell Damage coming from Magicka is, if I recall correctly, the quotient of a division by 11.96

This would be something like 80 plus 129 from a Legendary version of this ring (which I never saw in game) against 248 of the combo Adroitness + Light of Cyrodiil

It seems I'm wrong for some reason and I don't understand why. This design was not fit for Law of Julianos' 5 pieces bonus, which seems to not be possible by one slot (too bad we can't be like Gandalf...) but for Overwhelming Set, it fits, as the 5 pieces bonus does a very little damage

Usara wrote: »

Overwhelming is basically a mere upgrade of MK. So it certainly does work, but honestly, since it takes sooooo many runs and hours of grind in vWGT to get it with perfect traits...

Now that you mentioned, indeed. It seems to be an upgrade and even so, very small.

Usara wrote: »

Since you don't have Kena's helmet yet, I'd go with a couple of Torug : the last piece of armor, and a fire staff with nirnhoned trait if you can (or sharpened if you are broke/can't craft it).
2 Swords or a Greatsword of Torug in your alt bar

I can, in a few days. But why flame and not Lightning? In past I tested all three types with Elemental Ring, for example, and I could disintegrate enemies around me at a decent rate.

That was the only reason I started my research on Nirnhoned with Lightning first.

Also, having two swords or one greatsword in the back bar amkes any difference at all in the damage/protection of the abilities in the second bar?

Usara wrote: »

Unless you're doing PvP, don't go for Bastion. In PvE, sorcs should not spam their shields, unless they are magicka tanks. Which you are not.
Go for Elemental Defender mostly, and Thick Skinned and Hardy (so I am not much of a fan of Hardy since there is no Disease damage in PvE)

The problem is that, maybe because of 1) My timezone or 2) The guilds I am member; I'm always playing solo in PvE and because I don't have points in Health, even with a high level purple food, my HP is very low (like in the picture)

So I go for Bastion to improve my shields and then I can survive.

PvP I went solo too, in Imperial City recently (I bought both DLCs a couple days ago) and it was very tough, but I could kill two players (although I think it was the same guy twice >.<) without much trouble.

Usara wrote: »

Erm... I don' mean to be mean... but... you do know you are a sorcerer right ? You do realise that 90% the damage you do is elemental damage (Shock and Fire mostly). Ok there's the shard, but you can't put all your points in Thaumaturge just for one skill. I'd say 1 point is ok, because 1% of damage for only one point spent is efficient, but not since you have so few CP.

When I created this character I had zero information about game mechanics and I thought that being a mage would be stupidly easy like it was in Skyrim. Only a few weeks later I realized that it's totally the other way around.

And when I created her, I based as much as possible in Deltia's Ignition Sorcerer build, but 3~4 months later, reading the comments, I noticed that, apparently, this build is not optimal anymore.

And since a good portion of Deltia's content recently seems to be stamina this, stamina that, nightblade this, nightblade that, I'm shooting wherever I can trying to save my character, afterall, I spent 3~4 months on her.

Usara wrote: »

Same there : you split the remaining points between Elemental Expert and Elfborn.
Those two have the same scale (1 point in each gives the same number) BUT Elfborn increase a bit the damage of your crits...whereas Elemental Expert increase flatly ALL your elemental damage.
Meaning : focus on Elemental Expert until you reach 100. Until then, just one point in Elfborn, and Erosion.

Probably another legacy of Deltia's build. Now, with more information, I can understand better

Usara wrote: »

Perfect
Indeed, reducing the cost of a spell is way more profitable than the magicka regen - or at least, because of the grading system of the CP system, again.

Thanks. At least ONE thing I did right >.<

Usara wrote: »

Ok, now look at your gear : your shoulder are still enchanted in stamina : go for magicka. Same as your chest, go magicka.

I'm ashamed to confess I didn't notice that. Probably because I was opening a few chests at once and I got two of them with different traits.

Usara wrote: »

Also, you should wear 5 light, 1 med and 1 heavy.
You're missing the heavy piece - so you're missing on 2% max magicka.

I'm working on it. I didn't take the heavy yet because, again, the punyness (I don't even know if this word exists) of my character, I'm stuck in Undaunted 6 for several months already;

Phew! Last but not least, what should I pick as traits and enchantments? Divines on the smaller and infused in the rest all with Magicka (or Prismatic Defense, who knows...), without Reinforced at least on the Chest (like Deltia's)?

magnusthorek

Usara wrote: »

Ok, so first : your idea of the perfect gear is.... let's say kinda wrong

Adroitness + Cyrodiil light times are over now, Willpower set is a must have for all magicka builds : moar magicka, moar spellpower.

I agree this set ain't cheap, especially the perfect set with Arcane trait on the 3 jewels, but we are talking about "perfect" gear
Adroitness/Cyrodiil Light works for now, but you have to aim for the Willpower jewels.

The idea of this combo came not only because Willpower is expensive but also because I've found, I don't remember where exactly, that the Spell Damage coming from Magicka is, if I recall correctly, the quotient of a division by 11.96

This would be something like 80 plus 129 from a Legendary version of this ring (which I never saw in game) against 248 of the combo Adroitness + Light of Cyrodiil

It seems I'm wrong for some reason and I don't understand why. This design was not fit for Law of Julianos' 5 pieces bonus, which seems to not be possible by one slot (too bad we can't be like Gandalf...) but for Overwhelming Set, it fits, as the 5 pieces bonus does a very little damage

Usara wrote: »

Overwhelming is basically a mere upgrade of MK. So it certainly does work, but honestly, since it takes sooooo many runs and hours of grind in vWGT to get it with perfect traits...

Now that you mentioned, indeed. It seems to be an upgrade and even so, very small.

Usara wrote: »

Since you don't have Kena's helmet yet, I'd go with a couple of Torug : the last piece of armor, and a fire staff with nirnhoned trait if you can (or sharpened if you are broke/can't craft it).
2 Swords or a Greatsword of Torug in your alt bar

I can, in a few days. But why flame and not Lightning? In past I tested all three types with Elemental Ring, for example, and I could disintegrate enemies around me at a decent rate.

That was the only reason I started my research on Nirnhoned with Lightning first.

Also, having two swords or one greatsword in the back bar amkes any difference at all in the damage/protection of the abilities in the second bar?

Usara wrote: »

Unless you're doing PvP, don't go for Bastion. In PvE, sorcs should not spam their shields, unless they are magicka tanks. Which you are not.
Go for Elemental Defender mostly, and Thick Skinned and Hardy (so I am not much of a fan of Hardy since there is no Disease damage in PvE)

The problem is that, maybe because of 1) My timezone or 2) The guilds I am member; I'm always playing solo in PvE and because I don't have points in Health, even with a high level purple food, my HP is very low (like in the picture)

So I go for Bastion to improve my shields and then I can survive.

PvP I went solo too, in Imperial City recently (I bought both DLCs a couple days ago) and it was very tough, but I could kill two players (although I think it was the same guy twice >.<) without much trouble.

Usara wrote: »

Erm... I don' mean to be mean... but... you do know you are a sorcerer right ? You do realise that 90% the damage you do is elemental damage (Shock and Fire mostly). Ok there's the shard, but you can't put all your points in Thaumaturge just for one skill. I'd say 1 point is ok, because 1% of damage for only one point spent is efficient, but not since you have so few CP.

When I created this character I had zero information about game mechanics and I thought that being a mage would be stupidly easy like it was in Skyrim. Only a few weeks later I realized that it's totally the other way around.

And when I created her, I based as much as possible in Deltia's Ignition Sorcerer build, but 3~4 months later, reading the comments, I noticed that, apparently, this build is not optimal anymore.

And since a good portion of Deltia's content recently seems to be stamina this, stamina that, nightblade this, nightblade that, I'm shooting wherever I can trying to save my character, afterall, I spent 3~4 months on her.

Usara wrote: »

Same there : you split the remaining points between Elemental Expert and Elfborn.
Those two have the same scale (1 point in each gives the same number) BUT Elfborn increase a bit the damage of your crits...whereas Elemental Expert increase flatly ALL your elemental damage.
Meaning : focus on Elemental Expert until you reach 100. Until then, just one point in Elfborn, and Erosion.

Probably another legacy of Deltia's build. Now, with more information, I can understand better

Usara wrote: »

Perfect
Indeed, reducing the cost of a spell is way more profitable than the magicka regen - or at least, because of the grading system of the CP system, again.

Thanks. At least ONE thing I did right >.<

Usara wrote: »

Ok, now look at your gear : your shoulder are still enchanted in stamina : go for magicka. Same as your chest, go magicka.

I'm ashamed to confess I didn't notice that. Probably because I was opening a few chests at once and I got two of them with different traits.

Usara wrote: »

Also, you should wear 5 light, 1 med and 1 heavy.
You're missing the heavy piece - so you're missing on 2% max magicka.

I'm working on it. I didn't take the heavy yet because, again, the punyness (I don't even know if this word exists) of my character, I'm stuck in Undaunted 6 for several months already;

Also, I can make it nirnhoned. Wouldn't be better than another Infused?

Phew! Last but not least, what should I pick as traits and enchantments? Divines on the smaller and infused in the rest all with Magicka (or Prismatic Defense, who knows...), without Reinforced at least on the Chest (like Deltia's)?

Erraln

magnusthorek wrote: »

The idea of this combo came not only because Willpower is expensive but also because I've found, I don't remember where exactly, that the Spell Damage coming from Magicka is, if I recall correctly, the quotient of a division by 11.96

If game mechanics are what you are after, I suggest browsing Asayre's Arithmatic thread at Tamriel Foundry. In this case, the value is closer to 10.5 magic=1 spell damage. At this contribution ratio, Cyro light (1640m+ 121s) + Adroitness (820m+121s) contributes a total of about 476.29 base adjusted score*, from both set lines and item traits (arcane). In comparison, equipping 3 arcane Willpower rings contributes 3,920m+ 186s, or 559.3 score: a 17% improvement with 1 less item. In addition to this, VR16 jewelry Spell Damage glyphs are much more potent, providing 173 increase at legendary instead of 133. There's a reason those rings are so expensive, they're the best thing you can wear for damage.

magnusthorek wrote: »

...why flame and not Lightning?

This one comes down to personal preference, really, undeads and other mob types are weak to fire, and many people like the burning dot/ the extra damage fire heavy attacks do. Lightning synergizes better with the Storm Calling passives.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Also, having two swords or one greatsword in the back bar makes any difference at all in the damage/protection of the abilities in the second bar?

Yes, swords will boost the damage of you class skills, at the cost of ranged weapon attacks. They will not strengthen your Ward skill, as that scales purely off magic.

magnusthorek wrote: »

... and because I don't have points in Health, even with a high level purple food, my HP is very low (like in the picture)
So I go for Bastion to improve my shields and then I can survive.

If shields are your primary form of defense, there's no reason not to boost their effectiveness. I'd suggest eating Blue food for health/magic instead of Purple, though, if you don't find yourself using the extra stamina purple affords you. Your health and magic will end up higher that way.

magnusthorek wrote: »

... 3~4 months later, reading the comments, I noticed that, apparently, this build is not optimal anymore.

That happens in mmo's, the ideal builds shift with new content. The class itself is doing really well these days, though, so don't worry about your character becoming obsolete; it isn't

Usara wrote: »

Same there : you split the remaining points between Elemental Expert and Elfborn.
Those two have the same scale (1 point in each gives the same number) BUT Elfborn increase a bit the damage of your crits...whereas Elemental Expert increase flatly ALL your elemental damage.
Meaning : focus on Elemental Expert until you reach 100. Until then, just one point in Elfborn, and Erosion.

This is a simplified way of looking at CP. I'd have to run the comparisons, but since not all of a Sorc's output is pure elemental, there should be a level at which it makes sense to start placing points in Thaumaturge/Elfborn before pushing 100 E.Expert. The last 15-20 points in any star do very little, after all. These aren't things you'll have to worry about for a while though, thorek; it would start to matter more in the 400cp range.

magnusthorek wrote: »

Usara wrote: »

Also, you should wear 5 light, 1 med and 1 heavy.
You're missing the heavy piece - so you're missing on 2% max magicka.

I'm working on it. I didn't take the heavy yet because, again, the punyness (I don't even know if this word exists) of my character, I'm stuck in Undaunted 6 for several months already;

Also, I can make it nirnhoned. Wouldn't be better than another Infused?

Don't make your armor nirnhoned, your spell resistance is already double what your physical is giving you. Rather than having a light top with reinforced, have an Infused Heavy one; your armor will increase, and so will your magicka pool after you enchant it. This would also give you the 5/1/1 setup, for when your Undaunted rank improves enough to have Mettle active

magnusthorek wrote: »

Phew! Last but not least, what should I pick as traits and enchantments? Divines on the smaller and infused in the rest all with Magicka (or Prismatic Defense, who knows...), without Reinforced at least on the Chest (like Deltia's)?

Prismatic Defense is more for people that use all three stats extensively, such as tanks and pvp'ers. It's also a very expensive glyph, so I don't recommend it for a magic caster build. 3 Infused/ 4 Divines works well for stat and Mundus increases. High-end dps or healing combinations sometimes call for 7 Divines, boosting a strong Mundus effect such as Ritual, Thief, or Shadow at the cost of a few hundred stat. That call is yours to make, you'd end up weakening your Ward slightly to increase your damage slightly.

If you're not willing to obtain Willpower jewelry, the most important thing you can do to increase your dps right now is A: Get that second Cyro's Light ring, and B: Make your second staff vr16. I'm going to add my voice to the Julianos brigade, though, if you do decide to get Willpower. The 5th line bonus at vr16 is very strong.

*Spell Damage and Magicka are increased by different effects; racials, skills, and passives. Item scores by the method I used are simplified examples of how gear may perform. The player should learn their own stat increase effects and apply them accordingly.

magnusthorek

I'll follow as much as possible even if I have to stay for days in Wrothgar's Public Dungeons to get enough materials.

And I'll check MM and antihax daily looking after these tinha (with nunbers it's much more clear).

But I still don't get the point of having two swords in the second bar. I just can't see the relation since my Force Pulse would be in my first bar. But I'll craft a pair, atire down the numbers and compare.

I'll probably be out of this topic for a while, but as soon as I made, I'll bring pictures of MyBuild and FTC to, maybe, help others that certainly struggles like me, and hopefully they won't be a moron like I was before.

Usara

Erraln wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

...why flame and not Lightning?

This one comes down to personal preference, really, undeads and other mob types are weak to fire, and many people like the burning dot/ the extra damage fire heavy attacks do. Lightning synergizes better with the Storm Calling passives.

This is not a personal preference
Bosses are immune to Disintegration, are immune to the additional concussion effect of the Tri Focus passive and you can't weave with a Lightning staff because it's attack is a channeled one.
Those are three major reason NOT to use a lightning staff in PvE in single target.

In AoE, I agree that a lightning staff is really good. And that's where the personnal preference would be : to use 2 swords and a full sorc bar for the Overload, or to use a Lightning staff and have an AoE alt bar.

EDIT : hidden because partly wrong

@magnusthorek

Concerning the Willpower set : the major difference is also the fact that they are v16 jewels, so they can be enchanted with more powerful enchantment.

About the 2 swords/greatsword in your alt bar, yes, if you switch your weapon, the new stats of those weapon will affect the bar associated to them. Meaning, you can choose to have your Mage Fury/finisher, or your Overload there, to benefit from more spellpower without being impaired by the loss of weaving.

For the trait on the armor, the last fashion is to go full Divine. It does work wonders. But I haven't a DD sorc myself, just a lowbie, so I can't say for sure what's best for you.

Like said Erraln, you can check Asayre's post and I would advise you Yolo's build too, both on Tamriel Foundry.

Erraln

Usara wrote: »

This is not a personal preference
Bosses are immune to Disintegration, are immune to the additional concussion effect of the Tri Focus passive and you can't weave with a Lightning staff because it's attack is a channeled one.
Those are three major reason NOT to use a lightning staff in PvE in single target.

In AoE, I agree that a lightning staff is really good. And that's where the personnal preference would be : to use 2 swords and a full sorc bar for the Overload, or to use a Lightning staff and have an AoE alt bar.

Wasn't aware of the Disintegration deactivation, interesting. I'm sure that would have added a lot of damage, between where it activates at 25%, and where the sorc switches to dw for execution at 20. Under what conditions would a dps be seeking to use the heavy attack-activated passives purposefully? Medium weaving to activate them was removed with IC, as far as I remember. And light-attack weaving is perfectly possible, are you defining weaving with medium attacks?

The difference comes to 5% increased light attacks and impulses, vs the possibility of medium weaving. That makes it a playstyle choice, right? Whether the player medium weaves or not?

Usara

Erraln wrote: »

Wasn't aware of the Disintegration deactivation, interesting. I'm sure that would have added a lot of damage, between where it activates at 25%, and where the sorc switches to dw for execution at 20. Under what conditions would a dps be seeking to use the heavy attack-activated passives purposefully? Medium weaving to activate them was removed with IC, as far as I remember. And light-attack weaving is perfectly possible, are you defining weaving with medium attacks?

The difference comes to 5% increased light attacks and impulses, vs the possibility of medium weaving. That makes it a playstyle choice, right? Whether the player medium weaves or not?

My bad ! I said Tri-Focus when I was thinking Elemental Force
As for medium attacks not triggering Tri-Focus, I don't remember that
The bonus were changed for each element to make the Ice and Lightning staff a bit more usefull but it's still not as good as the fire staff, because of 1) the burning dot 2)lightning is channeled
What I know though is that what we players all medium attacks is actually "heavy attacks partially charged" do Tri-Focus should be working here, since the tooltip just say Heavy Attacks, and not Heavy Attacks Fully Charged.
So yes, you can weave with a Light staff and use light attacks, but you will do much less damage that another guy using exactly the same skills in the same gear but with a fire staff.

Edit : I know a lot of players, especially on this forums, are pretty vocal about weaving, calling it either cheating, either exploiting the game engine, either accusing players of being elitists jerks and all...
But fact is, if you call weaving a playstyle choice, for me it would be like... "with my magicka sorc, I only dps with Thundering presence and hit the boss with my 2H sword with heavy attacks only, that's how I want to play !"
Well yes sure, play as you want said ZoS, but you won't be competitive. At all. And then should stay in easy content because you character will never be able to do your job in highest content - or will have to be carried by his companions.
So yeah, I guess it's still a choice in the end : do your job, or not ^^

EDIT AGAIN :
Ah, looks like I'm wrong on numerous points when it comes to weaving with Lightning Staff/Fire staff for a magicka sorc ! Thanks @Erraln for the numbers
I edited my old post in spoiler since parts of them were wrong

failkiwib16_ESO

The best set for sorcerers at the moment is Scathing Mage, but it drops in Imperial City Prison dungeon and is much harder to find a group for, than White Gold Tower and City of Ash, because it is so hard to get through due to mechanics.

Overwhelming Surge set drops in White Gold Tower. It's just an upgrade from Martial Knowledge, and you shouldn't spend too much time farming that, go with Julianos and save yourself the trouble.

---

In case you really struggle at joining a trading guild and earning gold for Willpower jewelry, then you can farm them instead. Go to the Imperial City sewers and gather Dark Aether for Willpower Necklaces and Bone Shards for Willpower Rings. I suggest you join a group for farming this. - Sell whatever you get that you do not need of motifs and such to earn in the cash for the rest of your build. Use your tel var stones to buy Repora potency runes for your build also.... don't forget to bank them

---

Sustainability issues:
If sustainability is a huge problem for you, and your healer doesn't carry a destro staff to cast Elemental Drain, then you can switch Crystal Fragments on your destro bar for Elemental Drain and cast it yourself. Sustainability and endgame damage dealer builds don't get along

---

I did this dungeon recently scaled to v16, where a v16 sorcerer practically soloed Skoria, while the other DD was a v1 we got through group finder, he barely managed to do some blows before dying. (poor thing..we never told him he would take less damage from the fire, if he stood on the platforms with us..)

veteran City of Ash is an easy dungeon for sorcerers. However, if you are not experienced, and your team is not experienced either - then you can easily hit a wall there. You should focus on working on your char, socialize, join guilds and get friends. Once your char is geared up, you have tested your skills and you get friends to do dungeons with on a regular base, take the most experienced friends you've got and try veteran City of Ash with them. Ask them where to stand, what to focus on, how to do etc. because there are different tactics for dealing with the mobs and bosses.

magnusthorek

I've been off this topic for a while and, although I've seen not much benefit so far as I'm still looking for Ancestor Silk in the wilderness (c'mon ZOS, plant some more nodes please) I would like to know what would be better to have a weapon in second bar: two sword or a greatsword?

I've been reading some articles here and I came to the conclusion, hopefully right, that it would be for the best a Greatsword, because with such type of weapon, I could have in my Overload third bar Disintegration, Power Surge, Momentum and maybe Elemental Drain and have four boosts to empower its attack for at least 30 seconds.

Does it proceed?

[EDIT]

As complement, these were my partial tests with Dual Wielding (swords) and 2h (Greatsword) both made of Galatite (the material I had to spare) and without any passives or upgrades nor enchantments being applied:

Dual wielding

Weapon Damage||||||= 1243
Spell Power||||||||||||||= 2156
Force Pulse||||||||||||||= 1578 (slotted, but obviously not usable) / 1693 (usable)
Crystal Fragments||||= 7898 (slotted in DW) / 8481 (slotted in destro)
Energy Overload|||||||= 9757 (light) / 3851 (heavy)

2h

Weapon Damage||||||= 1581
Spell Power||||||||||||||= 2477
Force Pulse||||||||||||||= 1574 (slotted, but obviously not usable) / 1693 (usable)
Crystal Fragments||||= 7876 (slotted in DW) / 8481 (slotted in destro)
Energy Overload|||||||= 9729 (light) / 3840 (heavy)

With this test, it seems I was wrong but, if considering the passives:

- Dual Wielding would be increased by 6% from Dual Wield Expert + 5% (2.5% from each sword) from Twin Blade and Blunt
- 2h would be increased by 5% from Heavy Weapons + 20% from Rally (if used)

This would roughly change Crystal Fragments and, probably, Energy Overload in favor of 2h

failkiwib16_ESO

@magnusthorek those numbers, are they from your tool tips and character sheet, or did you actually go and test it with an addon like FTC?

magnusthorek

Tooltips. I'm very aware this is not the best testing possibility, but it gives me at least a small base to start talking about.

failkiwib16_ESO

@magnusthorek well I do that too, but I've noticed the damage numbers differ. If possible, you should try and switch between the weapons, and use addons ...fight the same monsters with both weapons, to see your damage output. Write down the numbers you see on your screen, also take notice of wether your spells crit or not, and write everything down.

Prices on willpower necklaces are now very low, but the rings are around 110k, they're obtainable if you spend some time selling items you don't need, while working on the rest of your build.